117 réponses à ce sujet

[DSWDalish]

I made buffalo boneless wings to =)

[Dragon Age1103]

DSWDalish wrote...

I made buffalo boneless wings to =)

haha wings & popcorn? weird! but not as weird as a 8lb sword!!! Whale Wars!!!! If this game was multiplayer you'd be in my party to replace Alistair & his funny jokes with your snarky comments that make me laugh. haha

oh forums are fun! ppl wasting time talking about nothing. I'm just making jokes wih a random poster listening to south park & reading this retarded thread!!!

[Chlamydion]

Ya know, it really doesn't make much difference what an actual, in-hand sword weighs. This is a game, and if you want to believe that these people can swing a hundred pound iron bar around for the length of a long battle, then go for it. But check out any sort of historical reference for sword weights, and weapon weights in general, and you'll be genuinely amazed at how light they really are/were.

[The_Madpaddy]

The_Madpaddy wrote...

It makes me laugh when people start to argue about sword weight even history scholars dont agree on the weight,WHY doesnt somebody go to a freeking museum and weight the buggers and stop all the arguments lol.

[Riecth]

Houkka wrote...

I actually went through the trouble of reading this whole thread. Skemte is absolutely right about the weight of swords. The power of a strike does not come from the weight of the blade and the way you chop wood is definitely not the way you use a sword. If you've ever seen people practicing kendo, you'll see that the strikes are actually done with a very small movement of the arms, using mostly leverage (?) to make a powerful strike. When you already wear a full plate armor that more or less (read: more) hampers your movement and flexibility, you're definitely not going to swing around a 15kg blade. A sword has to be light in order for you to actually be able to move it around.

That said, the animation doesn't bother me that much, I'm accustomed to fantasy zweihanders weighing more than any normal person could lift, let alone swing.

As far as Kendo goes, it's more about finess, speed, and accuracy than actual strength.  Katana's are one-handed swords that were usually used with two-hands.  They also weren't quite as strong as their European counterparts.  As far as armor goes, it wasn't quite as cumbersome as one might initially believe.  Don't get me wrong, it had some weight to it, but when you wear it around all day, every day, you become accustomed to it.  But as was said all the weapons of the day were fairly light, as battles could last hours at a time, you wouldn't make it to the end swinging around 50 lbs.

For the thread itself, I kinda like the slower motion of the two-hander swings.  It gives the appearance of throwing a lot of weight into the attack.  I'm not so concerned with the realism.  I like to just pretend in my fantasy games.

[Skemte]

Chlamydion wrote...

Ya know, it really doesn't make much difference what an actual, in-hand sword weighs. This is a game, and if you want to believe that these people can swing a hundred pound iron bar around for the length of a long battle, then go for it. But check out any sort of historical reference for sword weights, and weapon weights in general, and you'll be genuinely amazed at how light they really are/were.

Like I said I don't care for realism, its just relatively bland to see how poor and slow the animation is compared to the other two.. Its not enjoyable to watch..  Its just when ever I say that it should be faster and more graceful, people start crying BUT the SWORD WIEGHS A TON! THan I point out that real swords were never really heavy they are usually always under 10lbs..  Than people say ITS A FANTASY why are you comparing it to realism?  Realism aside the animation looks slow and clumsy, and for some its a real buzz kill for making a 2handed warrior even though people want to..

[Dragon Age1103]

I LOVE CIRCLES!!!! did u know stuff in the game doesn't plz me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i still do that stuff or use it b/c it make sense to!!! woot! haha later this is dull now. swords are made of stuff & they weigh pounds!! or something

[TheFawz]

havent looked all that close, but the fact that I havent noticed goes to show how its really not so bad. A fix could probably be done to increase the swing speed to make the weapons seem lighter.

[Skemte]

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I LOVE CIRCLES!!!! did u know stuff in the game doesn't plz me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i still do that stuff or use it b/c it make sense to!!! woot! haha later this is dull now. swords are made of stuff & they weigh pounds!! or something

  Its amazing how bad the fanboys are here, I am merely talking about a small gripe that I think could be patched pretty easily with speeding it up alittle..  And if they can't do it like that speed up the weapon, lower the damage..

[Ceskay]

Houkka wrote...

I actually went through the trouble of reading this whole thread. Skemte is absolutely right about the weight of swords. The power of a strike does not come from the weight of the blade and the way you chop wood is definitely not the way you use a sword. If you've ever seen people practicing kendo, you'll see that the strikes are actually done with a very small movement of the arms, using mostly leverage (?) to make a powerful strike. When you already wear a full plate armor that more or less (read: more) hampers your movement and flexibility, you're definitely not going to swing around a 15kg blade. A sword has to be light in order for you to actually be able to move it around.

That said, the animation doesn't bother me that much, I'm accustomed to fantasy zweihanders weighing more than any normal person could lift, let alone swing.

I Internet Tough Guys who take a few kendo lessons and extrapolate that all armed combat is similar to the way that katanas are used. I really do.


That said, I've yet to hear a good reason for why swords of the size and shape of those appearing in *this game* (not real life claymores) should be any faster. The two-handers in this game look to be about as wide as a character's bicep and quite thick, in addition to being long. If the two-handers in the game looked like real-life zweihanders you'd have a point, but they don't, so this is just powergamer whining. If you want to  cheat with faster, high-damage weapons, just mod the game yourself and stop crying.

[Ceskay]

Riecth wrote...

Houkka wrote...

I actually went through the trouble of reading this whole thread. Skemte is absolutely right about the weight of swords. The power of a strike does not come from the weight of the blade and the way you chop wood is definitely not the way you use a sword. If you've ever seen people practicing kendo, you'll see that the strikes are actually done with a very small movement of the arms, using mostly leverage (?) to make a powerful strike. When you already wear a full plate armor that more or less (read: more) hampers your movement and flexibility, you're definitely not going to swing around a 15kg blade. A sword has to be light in order for you to actually be able to move it around.

That said, the animation doesn't bother me that much, I'm accustomed to fantasy zweihanders weighing more than any normal person could lift, let alone swing.

As far as Kendo goes, it's more about finess, speed, and accuracy than actual strength.  Katana's are one-handed swords that were usually used with two-hands.  They also weren't quite as strong as their European counterparts.  As far as armor goes, it wasn't quite as cumbersome as one might initially believe.  Don't get me wrong, it had some weight to it, but when you wear it around all day, every day, you become accustomed to it.  But as was said all the weapons of the day were fairly light, as battles could last hours at a time, you wouldn't make it to the end swinging around 50 lbs.

For the thread itself, I kinda like the slower motion of the two-hander swings.  It gives the appearance of throwing a lot of weight into the attack.  I'm not so concerned with the realism.  I like to just pretend in my fantasy games.

Katanas were forged with a softer core to allow flexibility - this made them stronger pound for pound than most european swords. 

[Dragon Age1103]

Skemte wrote...

Dragon Age1103 wrote...

I LOVE CIRCLES!!!! did u know stuff in the game doesn't plz me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i still do that stuff or use it b/c it make sense to!!! woot! haha later this is dull now. swords are made of stuff & they weigh pounds!! or something

  Its amazing how bad the fanboys are here, I am merely talking about a small gripe that I think could be patched pretty easily with speeding it up alittle..  And if they can't do it like that speed up the weapon, lower the damage..

Haha since i don't see 30 other posts of ppl complaining about the animation speed I doubt Bioware will give a crap that u of all ppl are unhappy!!!! Thanks for all the fun due to your whinny post though it was good for laughs!!!

[Skemte]

Ceskay wrote...

Houkka wrote...

I actually went through the trouble of reading this whole thread. Skemte is absolutely right about the weight of swords. The power of a strike does not come from the weight of the blade and the way you chop wood is definitely not the way you use a sword. If you've ever seen people practicing kendo, you'll see that the strikes are actually done with a very small movement of the arms, using mostly leverage (?) to make a powerful strike. When you already wear a full plate armor that more or less (read: more) hampers your movement and flexibility, you're definitely not going to swing around a 15kg blade. A sword has to be light in order for you to actually be able to move it around.

That said, the animation doesn't bother me that much, I'm accustomed to fantasy zweihanders weighing more than any normal person could lift, let alone swing.

I Internet Tough Guys who take a few kendo lessons and extrapolate that all armed combat is similar to the way that katanas are used. I really do.


That said, I've yet to hear a good reason for why swords of the size and shape of those appearing in *this game* (not real life claymores) should be any faster. The two-handers in this game look to be about as wide as a character's bicep and quite thick, in addition to being long. If the two-handers in the game looked like real-life zweihanders you'd have a point, but they don't, so this is just powergamer whining. If you want to  cheat with faster, high-damage weapons, just mod the game yourself and stop crying.

... I never wanted two handers to be more powerful or weaker..  Just to have the animations look smooth, relatively quicker and such.. I am completely fine with the actual stat side of the combat..
..  And I don't see how my criticism could be considered crying.. It must be due to the fact you don't care about it.. So what begs the question why do you care? Don't you want a flashier more pleasing look combat? Especially when it comes to two handers?

Modifié par Skemte, 11 novembre 2009 - 11:57 .

[Ceskay]

Skemte wrote...

Ceskay wrote...

Houkka wrote...

I actually went through the trouble of reading this whole thread. Skemte is absolutely right about the weight of swords. The power of a strike does not come from the weight of the blade and the way you chop wood is definitely not the way you use a sword. If you've ever seen people practicing kendo, you'll see that the strikes are actually done with a very small movement of the arms, using mostly leverage (?) to make a powerful strike. When you already wear a full plate armor that more or less (read: more) hampers your movement and flexibility, you're definitely not going to swing around a 15kg blade. A sword has to be light in order for you to actually be able to move it around.

That said, the animation doesn't bother me that much, I'm accustomed to fantasy zweihanders weighing more than any normal person could lift, let alone swing.

I Internet Tough Guys who take a few kendo lessons and extrapolate that all armed combat is similar to the way that katanas are used. I really do.


That said, I've yet to hear a good reason for why swords of the size and shape of those appearing in *this game* (not real life claymores) should be any faster. The two-handers in this game look to be about as wide as a character's bicep and quite thick, in addition to being long. If the two-handers in the game looked like real-life zweihanders you'd have a point, but they don't, so this is just powergamer whining. If you want to  cheat with faster, high-damage weapons, just mod the game yourself and stop crying.

... I never wanted two handers to be more powerful or weaker..  Just to have the animations look smooth, relatively quicker and such.. I am completely fine with the actual stat side of the combat..
..  And I don't see how my criticism could be considered crying.. It must be due to the fact you don't care about it.. So what begs the question why do you care? Don't you want a flashier more pleasing look combat? Especially when it comes to two handers?

It would look kind of silly if the sword moved faster, but did damage on the same schedule. Furthermore, why aren't you asking for them to re-do the art for the swords, since they're clearly too large to be realistically wielded in the way that you are suggesting?

Also, why are we debating real-world european sword crafting in a forum about a game that doesn't take place in europe, and features dragons, darkspawn, an astral realm, and people who can violate the laws of physics with their minds?

[Skemte]

Because the two hander swords in the game seem to fit right in with the common perception that these were extremely heavy weapons that is all.. And I was merely pointing out that is not the case.. So why are they so slow and not flashy making for a boring style compared to the other two melee abilities.. Especially when you have ones like the mages which have numerous flashy spells.  Thats why I suggested they should lower the damage and raise the speed alittle bit.... And the majortiy of swords I have sen through out the entire game are realistic in size..

Modifié par Skemte, 12 novembre 2009 - 12:04 .

[Fates end]

Skemte wrote...

Because the two hander swords in the game seem to fit right in with the common perception that these were extremely heavy weapons that is all.. And I was merely pointing out that is not the case.. So why are they so slow and not flashy making for a boring style compared to the other two melee abilities.. Especially when you have ones like the mages which have numerous flashy spells.  Thats why I suggested they should lower the damage and raise the speed alittle bit.... And the majortiy of swords I have sen through out the entire game are realistic in size..

Well...I haven't played the game yet, but, in my (somewhat humble opinion).  Couldn't they mostly use realistic swords (ie:the one handed weapons that you say fit into our world quite nicely.)  And then, instead of having realworld two-handed swords, have their own, heavier version?  

Honestly, the vibe I'm getting from you is that you're annoying by the look of the moves.  I don't think it's supposed to look good when you're trying to cut someone in half with a two-handed weapon.  For the speed, just assume they're putting a lot of weight into the swing for maximum effect. 

[KristofCoulson]

Wouldn't you need some good solid weight in your claymore to beat someone in heavy iron armour to death?



I'm thinking of heavy armour used for jousting that I saw in the museum along with the seven-foot long swords made of iron.

[specter7237]

I dont think what real medieval swords were like applies too much to this game as the greatswords are alot wider and more unwieldy than a typical, thin medieval claymore or ziewhander.  Blame Ferelden technology man, its not going to be EXACTLY like the medieval age.

I for one have issues with the spell animations of ingame mages compared with those used by actual witches in the medieval age but won't voice those here.

[VeeVito]

I noticed that all the weapons animations are a little slow, but it isn't too bad.



As far as the weight debate goes, 7-10 pounds is still nothing to sneeze at if you are constantly swinging it about. I would guess that if you actually tried to pick up something that weighed 10 pounds and tried swinging it about for a ferw minutes, that seemingly low weight would fatigue you fast. Especially wearing armor.



Sure, at first it's nothing...but..



I think i'm doing it right...

[kingnat]

KristofCoulson wrote...

Wouldn't you need some good solid weight in your claymore to beat someone in heavy iron armour to death?

I'm thinking of heavy armour used for jousting that I saw in the museum along with the seven-foot long swords made of iron.

With swords versus a knight in full harness, it was all about precision strikes that would either bypass the protection offered, or damage mobility (attacking joints etc). When using the longsword (a bastard sword, aka hand-and-a half sword) this was done largely through the use of halfsword (one hand holding the blade about half way along) and pommel strikes which would ideally damage the joints on the armour.

You generally sacrificed the speed and reach of the longer weapon in order to get through the armour with a sword.

That said, it was generally a better idea to go in with a pole hammer, but that lacked the all round usefulness of the sword. The full blown 2-handed swords were extremely fast, but required a lot of skill and training (on top of the skill and years of training for the 1-handed and bastard swords) to be effective, and the precision was often going to suffer.

That said, you manage to take your opponent to the ground with a blow, and they're ready to be finished off; in with the dagger on your belt, or run them through if you think you can do it in time. (Or punch the sharpened quillon into the neck etc).

[Rylor Tormtor]

Skemte wrote...

Chlamydion wrote...

Realism vs Game Graphics. I've always preferred realism, but of course YMMV.Swords the size of bathtubs are impressive, but human muscles attached to human bones can't use something like that in battle. I do hope somebody mods the animations for greatswords -- and axes too, for that matter -- to make them a little less anime oriented.

  Hate to break it to you but the vast majority of weaponry espeically swords are realistic in their size and length to historical recreations.. I think nothing is wrong with any of the weapons (other than variety), its just 2handers look completely awful when in action.. A person does not move that slow when using a weapon that usually wieghs less than 10lbs..

Lookingh up two-handed sword weight on wikipedia is one thing, but hucking around a 6 foot long piece of steel is not an easy task.

[VeeVito]

specter7237 wrote...

I dont think what real medieval swords were like applies too much to this game as the greatswords are alot wider and more unwieldy than a typical, thin medieval claymore or ziewhander.  Blame Ferelden technology man, its not going to be EXACTLY like the medieval age.

I for one have issues with the spell animations of ingame mages compared with those used by actual witches in the medieval age but won't voice those here.

Yeah, i don't think that the actual mages of the time would actually raise their staff to complete the spell, most sources indicate that that is a waste of channeled power and indicates nothing more than egocentric "showboating" at the cost of actual proficiency.

[kingnat]

VeeVito wrote...

I noticed that all the weapons animations are a little slow, but it isn't too bad.

As far as the weight debate goes, 7-10 pounds is still nothing to sneeze at if you are constantly swinging it about. I would guess that if you actually tried to pick up something that weighed 10 pounds and tried swinging it about for a ferw minutes, that seemingly low weight would fatigue you fast. Especially wearing armor.

Sure, at first it's nothing...but..

I think i'm doing it right...

The armour would be pretty inconsequental (weight wise) assuming it actually fit you (it's the heat from that armour which'll do it for you). Swinging the sword around (10lbs is a really heavy sword, but even a light one) requires a lot of conditioning to do on any sort of sustained level. That's why a knight was worth twenty men; he trained all the time, so had that extreme conditioning and could simply outlast and outfight ten assailents. (Plus he was better skilled, so wouldn't have to outlast them anyway since he would be able to slay all twenty with ease)

[VeeVito]

kingnat wrote...

VeeVito wrote...

I noticed that all the weapons animations are a little slow, but it isn't too bad.

As far as the weight debate goes, 7-10 pounds is still nothing to sneeze at if you are constantly swinging it about. I would guess that if you actually tried to pick up something that weighed 10 pounds and tried swinging it about for a ferw minutes, that seemingly low weight would fatigue you fast. Especially wearing armor.

Sure, at first it's nothing...but..

I think i'm doing it right...

The armour would be pretty inconsequental (weight wise) assuming it actually fit you (it's the heat from that armour which'll do it for you). Swinging the sword around (10lbs is a really heavy sword, but even a light one) requires a lot of conditioning to do on any sort of sustained level. That's why a knight was worth twenty men; he trained all the time, so had that extreme conditioning and could simply outlast and outfight ten assailents. (Plus he was better skilled, so wouldn't have to outlast them anyway since he would be able to slay all twenty with ease)

I don't doubt you at all. Training of course alleviates such issues, although armor overheating men has been a concern for even the most conditioned of men. But our guy isn't a knight who trains and conditions. He's basicaly a boy thrust into the grey wardens. Give the guy a break!

[kingnat]

VeeVito wrote...

kingnat wrote...

VeeVito wrote...

I noticed that all the weapons animations are a little slow, but it isn't too bad.

As far as the weight debate goes, 7-10 pounds is still nothing to sneeze at if you are constantly swinging it about. I would guess that if you actually tried to pick up something that weighed 10 pounds and tried swinging it about for a ferw minutes, that seemingly low weight would fatigue you fast. Especially wearing armor.

Sure, at first it's nothing...but..

I think i'm doing it right...

The armour would be pretty inconsequental (weight wise) assuming it actually fit you (it's the heat from that armour which'll do it for you). Swinging the sword around (10lbs is a really heavy sword, but even a light one) requires a lot of conditioning to do on any sort of sustained level. That's why a knight was worth twenty men; he trained all the time, so had that extreme conditioning and could simply outlast and outfight ten assailents. (Plus he was better skilled, so wouldn't have to outlast them anyway since he would be able to slay all twenty with ease)

I don't doubt you at all. Training of course alleviates such issues, although armor overheating men has been a concern for even the most conditioned of men. But our guy isn't a knight who trains and conditions. He's basicaly a boy thrust into the grey wardens. Give the guy a break!

Depends on your origins (but since I have a real problem with the writing/storytelling on the orign path I went down, I'm just going to leave it there)

Either way, I'm not disagreeing. Medieval warfare and martial techniques are an interest of mine, so I get a bit excited sometimes.

I thought some folks might be interested to know a little about the real world stuff, but please feel free to skip over if the info isn't your thing. I really won't be offended!