138 réponses à ce sujet

[NoAngel89]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Just be aware that many of the major review sites cannot be trusted to mention even gamebreaking bugs. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Thanks, I'm aware of this. 

I wait a week or two now for player reviews and what they discovered before purchasing.

lol same here, but I usually wait months, a good two months, to see if the hype is still there, and if people liked it. Of course. they didn't release awakening yet, and the patches back then didn't really mess much with the game. Of course there were some missing armor, but other then that, but then it was still great, and that was something I was willing to over look, some dialogue and armor issue.

[termokanden]

I wasn't disappointed with DAO, but I just thought they were going to fix the bugs. Still hoping for it, although I'm convinced in their minds it's a finished product.

Some of my favorite games through the years have been the most bugged. Morrowind for example I loved, although it crashed like mad. Vampire: Bloodlines was brilliant too (with the official patch at least, or it was unplayable). But you could feel that it was rushed, this time due to the developers going out of business.

At the very least they'd better learn from their mistakes the first time around and make sure DA2 doesn't have the same balance issues and bugs. Then again my two decades of experience playing video games have made me very cynical.

Modifié par termokanden, 28 septembre 2010 - 10:40 .

[Loerwyn]

termokanden wrote...
At the very least they'd better learn from their mistakes the first time around and make sure DA2 doesn't have the same balance issues and bugs. Then again my two decades of experience playing video games tells me that this is usually not how it works out.

I think BioWare have a long way to go, even for a company of their age. This is just my opinion, but I think BioWare really need to work on their PR and how they deal with their fanbase (Return to Ostagar, for example), but they also work on their products too quickly.

Awakening came out what, 3-4 months after Origins after being in development for a year, right? So why was it so buggy and so... Well, why was it like it was? I'd put money on it being due to no feedback from the community for most of its development cycle, and by the time they got feedback it was too late. Sure, it gave us Sigrun, but overall it was a complete mess. It had game breaking bugs, some of the quests never triggered properly (Or when they did, it never did it properly), and there was no excuse for the DLC not transferring, especially when a modder had it working within days. It's safe to assume that Awakening and Warden's Keep would have been created either one after the other, or at the same time, so why didn't the content transfer?

It also struck me as odd that they've cut support so quickly. Ignoring my own feelings about DA2, it feels like it's happened too fast for them. DA:O is their best selling product, yet it needs so much more work. The balance is completely out (Especially during Awakening), there's a wealth of bugs both gamebreaking and minor, and overall it could have been so much better with just a bit longer in development.

I think DA2 is going to arrive too quickly, to be honest. We saw what happened with Awakening, so I dread to think what DA2 will be like.

[termokanden]

I think BioWare have a long way to go, even for a company of their age. This is just my opinion, but I think BioWare really need to work on their PR and how they deal with their fanbase (Return to Ostagar, for example), but they also work on their products too quickly.

I think it's the same with most of them actually.

What bothers me a little about this whole thing is that while Mass Effect 2 is not completely perfect and bug-free, it just seems so much more polished than DAO. I've wondered why there's such a big difference.

It becomes very clear with the newest DLC for both games released on the same date. I was impressed with Lair of the Shadow Broker and thoroughly disappointed with Witch Hunt. How can the same company make such a massive success and a massive failure at the same time?

I know it's not the same people, but still.

there was no excuse for the DLC not transferring, especially when a modder had it working within days

Indeed. Major bugs have been fixed very quickly by modders and yet the devs can't put it in a patch?

I think DA2 is going to arrive too quickly, to be honest. We saw what happened with Awakening, so I dread to think what DA2 will be like.

I'm hoping it will be more difficult even on normal difficulty. I always play through on normal first to get the "intended" experience and then try the higher difficulties later for fun. In Awakening it was just shocking. Things just drop dead at the sight of you. This also means the higher difficulties are not as challenging as they should be.

Wouldn't mind something in between DAO and Golems difficulty.

Modifié par termokanden, 28 septembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Blastback]

Heh, at least you pc guys can get mods to fix various problems. I'm playing on the 360, so I'm utterly dependent on Bioware to fix problems. Wanted to get the pc version, but didn't have the hardware.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Sblade wrote...

For the people getting memory leaks. Etc. Make sure your drivers, specially video and sound ones. I mailed official technical support and the tech guy pointed me at my video driver outdate. Performance has been increased and I don´t experience any longer that slow behaviour in certain area of Golems of Amgarrak.

As for the Witch Hunt issues, they should be corrected before finally embarking on DA2

I did this and I'm still getting them, as I said, not nearly as bad.

[ladydesire]

Regarding the DLC transfer, just look at how long it's taking for the patch for Witch Hunt to go through on the consoles, and it's a serious bug; why should Bioware have to put DLC through a similar cycle just because they changed a few settings on some items in the toolset? The modder fix for the DLC items is simply placing the encrypted DLC files in a different place so that Awakening can read them.

[Loerwyn]

ladydesire wrote...
why should Bioware have to put DLC through a similar cycle just because they changed a few settings on some items in the toolset? The modder fix for the DLC items is simply placing the encrypted DLC files in a different place so that Awakening can read them.

Because it shouldn't even have to be fixed.

[ilovedragonageverymuch]

I doubt there will be anything new to DA: O, if they start a whole new story, this one is going to die. and so does the warden. thx alot bioware for the DLC, at least you tried (or not).

[night0205]

Don't be so depressing. A patch will come... maybe

[Evil Taco]

Man, if this is dragon age AFTER the memory leaks were mostly fixed, wow. I love the game, but my brand new rig still gets bogged down from time to time.



This witch hunt mess has me second guessing buying it. However, I'm a fanboy, so I'll still probably get 2.

[edeheusch]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

termokanden wrote...
At the very least they'd better learn from their mistakes the first time around and make sure DA2 doesn't have the same balance issues and bugs. Then again my two decades of experience playing video games tells me that this is usually not how it works out.

I think BioWare have a long way to go, even for a company of their age. This is just my opinion, but I think BioWare really need to work on their PR and how they deal with their fanbase (Return to Ostagar, for example), but they also work on their products too quickly.

Awakening came out what, 3-4 months after Origins after being in development for a year, right? So why was it so buggy and so... Well, why was it like it was? I'd put money on it being due to no feedback from the community for most of its development cycle, and by the time they got feedback it was too late. Sure, it gave us Sigrun, but overall it was a complete mess. It had game breaking bugs, some of the quests never triggered properly (Or when they did, it never did it properly), and there was no excuse for the DLC not transferring, especially when a modder had it working within days. It's safe to assume that Awakening and Warden's Keep would have been created either one after the other, or at the same time, so why didn't the content transfer?

It also struck me as odd that they've cut support so quickly. Ignoring my own feelings about DA2, it feels like it's happened too fast for them. DA:O is their best selling product, yet it needs so much more work. The balance is completely out (Especially during Awakening), there's a wealth of bugs both gamebreaking and minor, and overall it could have been so much better with just a bit longer in development.

I think DA2 is going to arrive too quickly, to be honest. We saw what happened with Awakening, so I dread to think what DA2 will be like.

I have exactly the same feeling.

In addition to the DLC not transferring that "a modder had it working within days" I would add that there are many glitches that are know and were fixed by modders (look at Qwinn's Fixpack for an idea). I can understand that it take much more time to fix them via an official patch that need to go trough many testing phases, but I cannot understand that, although most of them are know for month (even probably since the release of the game) and are not so hard to fix, there will probably never be officially fixed.
I mean, Bioware knows what are the bugs and how to solve them (thank to the modders). How can they let the game not work as intended forever unless the customers and the quality of the game don’t matter at all for them?
Is it really so hard to simply add a pair of boots in a cabinet and does it really need hours of testing to be sure that it doesn’t break the game?

Modifié par edeheusch, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[Eurypterid]

edeheusch wrote...... and does it really need hours of testing to be sure that it doesn’t break the game?

Yes, it does. Fixes require extensive testing on all platforms. One of the devs stated some time ago that it's not as easy as it sounds due to testing requirements and other considerations that modders don't have to deal with.



I'm still hoping for a patch though, but I don't know how extensive it would be if one comes out.

[Zy-El]

Yes, Qwinn and other modders like him are geniuses. Bioware is aware of their fixes and could very easily create a patch to address them . . . but only for the PC and not the consoles. Therein lies the rub. No Bioware employee will confirm this (because they are gagged) - there is an agreement that any patch developed must be applied to all platforms - PC, XBox and PS3. This was a requirement by Micro$oft and $ony so that players on the consoles would not be dis-advantaged compared to PC players.

Yes, Bioware could patch every bug in the game, but the console manufacturers won't allow it on their platforms. Why? Developing and distributing patches does not earn them any profit. Better to spend the resources on the next Call of Duty or Halo expansion. There are also technical limitations as to how much a patch for consoles can contain. The packet size for consoles limits how much can be put into each patch and each patch release costs a certain fixed amount. It all boils down to keeping down costs and maximizing profit.

[termokanden]

Eurypterid wrote...

edeheusch wrote...... and does it really need hours of testing to be sure that it doesn’t break the game?

Yes, it does. Fixes require extensive testing on all platforms. One of the devs stated some time ago that it's not as easy as it sounds due to testing requirements and other considerations that modders don't have to deal with.

I'm still hoping for a patch though, but I don't know how extensive it would be if one comes out.

Oh I have some experience with programming on large projects myself, and I can easily imagine there is a big cost involved in getting patches out, so I have some understanding there.

But I still think it would be nice gesture if Bioware decided to live up to their good reputation and fixed some of the embarrassing issue that have been present in the game forever.

It also seems that DA2 is being used as an excuse to avoid patching DAO. But DAO is still being played and still being sold, and you can bet many people will still be playing it after DA2 is released.

So in my eyes, Bioware still has the choice to be the good guys and not forget who paid the big bucks for DAO and kept their business running. I can easily imagine though that business will often get in the way of good intentions. I do not mean greed here either. If you're under pressure to produce new content, you obviously can't release patches for old content other than in your spare time.

The packet size for consoles limits how much can be put into each patch and each patch release costs a certain fixed amount. It all boils down to keeping down costs and maximizing profit.

Xbox live has many silly limitations. But if I can download > 1 GiB of DLC, I should be able to download a patch.

I play on the PC anyway, and there we have no such silly limitations.

Modifié par termokanden, 29 septembre 2010 - 04:28 .

[Zy-El]

The Bioware devs DO want to patch the game but cannot because of contractual agreements with Micro$oft and $ony. They could have fixed the Silverite Mines bug for example but because they were not allowed to modify certain DLC code, they couldn't fix it.

We all know that Warden's Keep has a few import bugs that do not allow its unique items to import into other DLC's. Why did they not create a new version of WK? After all, they produced version 1.1 of Witch Hunt in a matter of weeks. Simple reason - Bioware did not have permission to produce Warden's Keep 1.1.

However, they had to have Witch Hunt 1.1 because the save-file generated at the end of that DLC was required for Dragon Age2.

[termokanden]

Wow that's silly. I can't say it surprises me though.



That's kind of the point of my post though - it's not that nobody *wants* to fix anything, it's that business gets in the way.

[Blastback]

Where have you seen that Bioware isn't allowed to update the DLC Code? I know about various limitations inherent in title updates, but why couldn't they release a patch as free DLC? They've released free DLC for ME2, so any reason that they couldn't for Origins?



Not trying to challenge you, but you know, this is one of those things were I am kinda hoping that you have no idea what you talking about.

[Eurypterid]

Zy-El, do you have a source for your post? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate what you've posted is in fact the case. I'd be careful about posting something like that as fact unless you have a source to back it up.

[ladydesire]

Eurypterid wrote...

Zy-El, do you have a source for your post? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate what you've posted is in fact the case. I'd be careful about posting something like that as fact unless you have a source to back it up.

Victor Wachter's post  July 16, 2010

Note concerning Silverite Mine, Arl of Denerim’s Estate, and Item issues:  Please accept our apologies. While we wish we could have fixed these issues to the community’s satisfaction, we are unable to do so at this time. As indicated, we realize that none of these workarounds are ideal in any way but regrettably have no other course of action as we have very strict limitations with what we are able and not able to patch, on consoles especially. We have taken into account the root issues related to the implementation of these areas/pieces and will carry it forward in an effort to avoid things like this happening in the future.

[Blastback]

ladydesire wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

Zy-El, do you have a source for your post? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate what you've posted is in fact the case. I'd be careful about posting something like that as fact unless you have a source to back it up.

Victor Wachter's post  July 16, 2010

Note concerning Silverite Mine, Arl of Denerim’s Estate, and Item issues:  Please accept our apologies. While we wish we could have fixed these issues to the community’s satisfaction, we are unable to do so at this time. As indicated, we realize that none of these workarounds are ideal in any way but regrettably have no other course of action as we have very strict limitations with what we are able and not able to patch, on consoles especially. We have taken into account the root issues related to the implementation of these areas/pieces and will carry it forward in an effort to avoid things like this happening in the future.

Thing is, that is kinda open to interpretation.  At this time, could mean that in the future those issues could be fixed.  Or it could be that there is no fix coming.  It's not explicit either way.

[Eurypterid]

I remember that post, Ladydesire, but I think it's more than a bit of extrapolation to go from what Victor said to what Zy-El said.

[Maestro120]

Blastback wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

Zy-El, do you have a source for your post? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate what you've posted is in fact the case. I'd be careful about posting something like that as fact unless you have a source to back it up.

Victor Wachter's post  July 16, 2010

Note concerning Silverite Mine, Arl of Denerim’s Estate, and Item issues:  Please accept our apologies. While we wish we could have fixed these issues to the community’s satisfaction, we are unable to do so at this time. As indicated, we realize that none of these workarounds are ideal in any way but regrettably have no other course of action as we have very strict limitations with what we are able and not able to patch, on consoles especially. We have taken into account the root issues related to the implementation of these areas/pieces and will carry it forward in an effort to avoid things like this happening in the future.

Thing is, that is kinda open to interpretation.  At this time, could mean that in the future those issues could be fixed.  Or it could be that there is no fix coming.  It's not explicit either way.

Disagree.  I took this quote...

"We have taken into account the root issues related to the implementation of these areas/pieces and will carry it forward in an effort to avoid things like this happening in the future"

... to mean that Bioware have taken into account the lessons learned  in dealing with the bugs in Awakening to ensure that there are no repeats in future endeavors of a similar nature.

So in a nutshell, yes we learned our lesson in how we dealt with the bugs in Awakening and will do our mightiest to ensure it doesn't happen again on future projects.

Modifié par Maestro120, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[Blastback]

Then there is this, "we are unable to do so at this time". That gets said a couple of times. That's why I think the statment has some ambiguity. And thus I have room to hope.

[night0205]

It's sad that any limitation would be put on a game by it's own developers...