101 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanSJF]

I'm all set to go with a new project, but before I load my area into the cutscene editor and get things moving, I have some concerns regarding sound in cutscenes.

As I understand it, any creature placed in an area and then activated for animation purposes in the cutscene editor should have audible sound effects when it comes to viewing and recording the cutscene in-game. Footsteps, armour and weapon sounds, they should all be there.

The problem I ran into in my previous cutscene/Machinima is one I'm sure folks here are familiar with - barely audible or non-existent sound effects in-game. Last time, I'd say of all the sounds that should have been audible, a good %90+ weren't.

So, is there more to this than simply 'place creature in area, activate in cutscene editor'? Are there any other aspects of the process - in the creature settings, at the area stage - where steps can be taken to ensure that every cutscene sound that should be there in-game is actually there?

If at all possible, I want to avoid getting to the point where I'm ready to export my cutscene to the game only to find that most of it's a silent movie.

[BloodsongVengeance]

okay, really dumb question, but question number one....



did you turn the sound volume of your game all the way up? and/or did you turn the music volume down?



here's a totally off-the-wall idea; no clue if it means anything or not... how far away was the camera from the item making the sound? if the sound volume is based on camera distance, this could be trouble. perhaps a wide-angle lens instead of pulling the camera way far back could help?

[AlanSJF]

Actually, no, I didn't try changing the sound/music volumes in the game options menu, so not a dumb question at all - I'll try that as soon as I've finished typing this.

As for camera proximity, it varied, but there were definitely instances where the camera was close to 2 actors, but either no sound played, or only one actor's sounds played (or was audible).

But let's see if changing the game audio settings changes things ...

*EDIT*

Okay, I ran my previous cutscene in game and tried game sounds turned all the way to 10 and music at 0 - no change. Which I guess means the problem is the various sounds/sound fx not exporting to the game properly - although no errors were logged when I did the original export.

Modifié par AlanSJF, 22 septembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Beerfish]

I really haven't been able to figure this aspect out at all. I have been surprised to have good sound from some cutscenes with actors placed in area and activated. And in some cases I thought I would get good results and got none. I think you can manually apply sound events to animations in the cutscene editor, or at least I thought I saw threads on that.

[AlanSJF]

Beerfish, I've read through quite a number of posts on the subject, so I'm aware that you and others have also experienced this.



As for manually placing sounds ... man, for what I have in mind, that's gonna mean a lot of little speaker icons cluttering up the place. The frustrating thing is that it may well be the only option.



Sometimes sounds work, sometimes they don't ... it's hard to pin down exactly what the issue is, therfore it's hard to point to a solution.

[AlanSJF]

I've been running some in-game tests on the first minute or so of a new cutscene/Machinima, sadly without a great deal of success. Rather, without the right kind of success.

I've done the basics - creature placed in area, activated in cutscene. I also placed music, reverb volumes, and a few ambient/environment emitters in the area.

Running the cutscene in-game, all the non-animation sounds are perfectly audible, so that's one less thing to worry about. (Though I am curious about changing the music during the cutscene; is this possible? I'd like 3 pieces of music, kind of an intro, main, and coda.) Before I exported the cutscene, I checked the Events Editor to see if my animations had associated audio, and the majority did - therefore, those sounds should play when the cutscene is run in-game.

They didn't.

Next, I went back to the cutscene editor, and following Beerfish's suggestion up-thread I placed a few emitters - those sounds also played when I re-exported and ran the scene in the game.

I also tried placing a creature into the scene in the cutscene editor, gave him an animation that has audio, and re-exported again, but no surprise that animation played in perfect silence.

Something I did notice when I looked at the export log was "could not get soundset for character" errors for all of the characters I created for the scene. I don't know how much that has to do with the problem, however, as some of the creatures I'm using are core creatures, and no sound associated with their animations are playing in-game either.

I know the emitters seem to work, but I've checked and in some cases there are no placable sounds that are suitable for the animations I'm using (or plan to use), and even if there were to cover the whole cutscene I estimate I'll need in excess of 100.

So, basically I'm not much further along trying to figure this out. Non-animation sounds placed in the level editor and/or the cutscene editor play in-game, but animation sound effects don't. I'll look into what else I can try - maybe spend some time examining the game cutscenes ...

[AlanSJF]

In the cutscene sample thread, DahliaLynn wrote: "The way I would go about it, would be that for testing purposes, export all my stuff (cutscene area, etc) to the highest override in the override heirarchy,(\\\\\\\\ My Documents \\\\\\\\ BioWare \\\\\\\\ Dragon Age \\\\\\\\ packages \\\\\\\\ core \\\\\\\\ override then try the run cutscene again."

Thanks, DahliaLynn, that was the key to getting the autologin/cutscene method to work.

I've now run all 4 of my exterior cutscenes in-game with the area changed from custom to game/vanilla - in this case, cam100ar_camp_plains.

All 4 played without any sound at all, apart from the area music preset.

So, I tried again using a game/vanilla area that doesn't have a music preset - game_intro_wilds (Korcari Wilds).

Again, both cutscenes I moved to this area played without any sound at all.

So, let's see if I can sum up where I'm at with this whole sound issue:

- I've now produced 5 cutscenes using the toolset, 4 using custom exteriors and the 5th using a roughly 75/25 split of custom/game interiors.

- I've experienced persistent sound problems with all 4 of my exterior scenes - specifically animation sounds and sound fx that should play in-game not playing at all, or at best a very low percentage of them playing. Any sound I've placed in the area however do play, as do sounds I place directly into the cutscene editor.

-with my latest cutscene, the one using interiors, all the animation sounds and sound fx play in-game, both in the (altered) game/vanilla interior and my own custom interior. (I'll note here that in the cutscene samples thread, Yara Cousland mentioned only being able to get sound to work in an interior cutscene.)

-I've now managed to run all 4 of my exterior cutscenes in-game using game/vanilla exteriors, which resulted in no sounds playing at all.

Thoughts?

[DahliaLynn]

Forgive me if this has been answered before, but have you placed your creatures in the area and activated them in the editor?
More so, have you tried inserting these creatures in the vanilla area, and replacing the cutscene creature tags to point to your area creatures?

edit: Sorry I don't know if this can be done...you may have to place creatures in the area and indeed cut and paste your animations to the new aea enabled/activated creatures...

The logic behind this is my  assumption that perhaps the areas audio settings allow for sounds to play for the creatures placed there.

I would also set "enable level effects" in the CS editor, not that it has a definite bearing, but it wouldn't hurt to limit all possible causes of failure.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:16 .

[DahliaLynn]

I'm going to do some research on the area ran401ar_highway_zevran1 where meeting Zevran for the first time takes place.

I've already noticed that all the creatures involved in the cutscene are in the area, and the creatures themselves have various settings. What I don't know is if there are sounds other than those inserted in the cutscene itself heard in the game. If I find anything I'll also post my results here.

[AlanSJF]

DahliaLynn wrote...

Forgive me if this has been answered before, but have you placed your creatures in the area and activated them in the editor?
More so, have you tried inserting these creatures in the vanilla area, and replacing the cutscene creature tags to point to your area creatures?

edit: Sorry I don't know if this can be done...you may have to place creatures in the area and indeed cut and paste your animations to the new aea enabled/activated creatures...

The logic behind this is my  assumption that perhaps the areas audio settings allow for sounds to play for the creatures placed there.

I would also set "enable level effects" in the CS editor, not that it has a definite bearing, but it wouldn't hurt to limit all possible causes of failure.

As I understand things I'm not sure if what you suggest is possible either.

For now, I'm going to create a new custom area and a very basic cutscene, one that I can easily replicate in game/vanilla areas, and see if any differences turn up.

Best of luck with your own investigation ...

[DahliaLynn]

My advice to you for now, is place your creatures in the vanilla area. Or use a duplicated vanilla area.  Then activate them in your CS editor. this is how I see vanilla is done. I'll post when I know more.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 10 novembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[Yara C.]

AlanSJF wrote...

For now, I'm going to create a new custom area and a very basic cutscene, one that I can easily replicate in game/vanilla areas, and see if any differences turn up.

That´s what I have done yesterday evening after I have already switched my cutscenes before to different areas and tested different parameters. Again nothing. Some days ago I had a look into the worksheets (gdas) and experimented a bit  with  them. No real clue why it works in-game but not in cut-scenes...
My current approach is more focused on the animation composer  in connection with the event editor.

Let´s see if we can push together the limits of what is known about 'sound associated to animations' and cutscenes. Good luck!

Modifié par Yara Cousland, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Sunjammer]

I assume you have cutscene's Play Sound Events property set to True?  According to the wiki this seems to be key (no pun intended).

Modifié par Sunjammer, 10 novembre 2010 - 08:36 .

[DahliaLynn]

Yara Cousland wrote...

AlanSJF wrote...

For now, I'm going to create a new custom area and a very basic cutscene, one that I can easily replicate in game/vanilla areas, and see if any differences turn up.

That´s what I have done yesterday evening after I have already switched my cutscenes before to different areas and tested different parameters. Again nothing. Some days ago I had a look into the worksheets (gdas) and experimented a bit  with  them. No real clue why it works in-game but not in cut-scenes...
My current approach is more focused on the animation composer  in connection with the event editor.

Let´s see if we can push together the limits of what is known about 'sound associated to animations' and cutscenes. Good luck!

I hope you mean works in game when you freely move around and not cutscenes in game ...right? (Just so we're on the same page) Secondly... I personally find the animation composer a mystery...so anything you can tell us about that would be great , since it seems that it is there where the audio is connected to the animation itself!
I toast to the self created cutscene research team ...let hope to find some answers and make some sense out of all of this

[John Epler]

Hey folks. I've pinged a tools programmer and an audio guy to see if I can get a definitive response to this question for you. We tend to leave audio more or less up to our audio team, so we don't do a lot of work with them ourselves - but someone else should be able to answer the question. Everyone's kind of busy so I wouldn't expect a response right away, but I'll keep you posted!

[DahliaLynn]

Sunjammer wrote...

I assume you have cutscene's Play Sound Events property set to True?  According to the wiki this seems to be key (no pun intended).

Good point. Alan? Yara?

Edit: John, Thank you!

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 10 novembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[AlanSJF]

Sunjammer wrote...

I assume you have cutscene's Play Sound Events property set to True?  According to the wiki this seems to be key (no pun intended).

Yes. As I understand it, based on posts I've read here and the DA builder wiki, having sound events set to true plus placing creatures in the area editor and activating them in the cutscene editor are supposed to ensure animation sounds will play. I've taken both these steps with all 5 of the cutscenes I've produced, yet either no animation sounds play at all, or only a few do - the only exception being the one cutscene I've made using interiors, where every animation sound did play.

*Edit*

Yes, thank you John from Bioware!

Modifié par AlanSJF, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:01 .

[Yara C.]

@John, yes, thank you!

@Sunjammer, thx. Yes. Have read nearly everything what had been posted on this topic during the last year etc.
Seems Alan had more luck than I had. It was only single animation in my very first trial cutscene where associated sound worked. Beginner´s luck. Didn´t realize that it was something special and what has changed later. Beside the manipulation of animation (weight, speed etc.) but during my tests I could exclude this.

@Dahlia, yes. Sometimes I do not know how to express this. Yes, exactly, how you have understood it. (I have not the feeling of 'in-game ' when a cutscene is rendered by the game engine, especially triggered by the runscript command).
The animation composer is really another mystery. Terra incognita beyond Ferelden to which only a handful of early pioneers seem have undertaken a travel and never returned. Or did not report much about it. I have just set the first step in this direction..this travel will take some time.

Modifié par Yara Cousland, 10 novembre 2010 - 10:36 .

[AlanSJF]

Progress report - of a sort.

I was thinking about the differences between an exterior level/area and an interior level/area, and the most obvious one that came to mind was size - all the custom exteriors I've made are larger than my one interior, which makes sense I suppose. Which led to the question: does the scale of the area where the cutscene takes place have any effect on the quality of the sound?

I've built two bare-bones exterior levels, one 32x32 and one 192x192. All I did was add basic lighting and a start point, nothing else.

I then used each to create two new test areas. I followed exactly the same steps for each: added 3 test creatures, a way point, a trigger, and then exported. I didn't add any audio, reverb, or music volumes. I then checked in-game and bother were fine.

Next, I set a very simple cutscene in the 32x32 area, just a couple of animations for each character (pre-placed in the area, activated in the cutscene editor), first checking the event editor to make sure the animations I used all had audio (they all did). I made sure to set 'Play Sound Events' to 'TRUE', exported, then ran this cutscene in-game.

Result: every animation sound played.

Then I created a new cutscene using the 192x192 level/area, using the same three test creatures, copying and pasting their tracks from the 32x32 scene - basically exactly the same cutscene in a new area that differed only in size (6 times bigger). I then exported and ran it in-game.

Same result - every animation sound played.

Based on these findings, I'm now starting to wonder what else might have an impact on animation sounds playing or not playing. Both levels, the 32x32 and the 192x192, are as basic as can be, just single squares of unaltered terrain. So what effect does changing the terrain have, or adding models, etc? Or, is the fact I didn't add audio, music or reverb volumes to the areas the key? The problem there is, I added those volumes to all 5 of my previous cutscenes, the 4 exteriors where animation sounds were rare or nonexistent and the interior scene where all the animation sounds played ...

I don't know if any of the above will turn out to be useful, or if I'm just confusing the issue, but I thought i'd post this anyway in case it sparks anyone else's thinking.

Modifié par AlanSJF, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:07 .

[DahliaLynn]

this is great testing! Next step, add audio to the area part by part The fact that you have sounds working in a large exterior says a lot. This way you can zero in on the cause if the sound stops all of a sudden. You may be our savior

Yara, good luck on the journey :S I hope John can have an answer for us soon

[AlanSJF]

DahliaLynn wrote...

You may be our savior  

No pressure then!

But back to business ...

On the issue of audio, music and reverb volumes and what effect - if any - they have on animation sounds, I've run a few more tests.

What I've done is remove all the area audio settings from my 5 cutscenes - that's the audio, music and reverb volumes, plus any music and reverb presets from the area object inspector. I also removed all placed sounds (emitters) in the cutscene editor. Then I re-exported each area and cutscene, to test them one by one in-game.

Result: none of the changes I made seemed to have any noticable impact on the animation sounds. The 4 exterior scenes played with no, occasional, or muffled animation sounds, as they did originally, and the interior scenes played with all animation sounds, again as it did previously.

By this stage it should go without saying that 'Play Sound Events' was set to TRUE.

So, based on the above and the two tests I ran yesterday using bare-bones areas, it seems that using audio, music, and reverb volumes, and/or music and audio presets, does not effect whether or not animation sounds will play.
 
So what's next? Is the problem the number of cameras used and their positioning? The placement of the master object? Maybe it's down to the number of animations used in the scene - eg, in my interior scenes and the 2 exterior test scenes I did yesterday, I used only a small number of animations, at least compared to my 4 exterior scenes where animation sounds have been problematic. Then there's the overall complexity of the set up to consider - after all, I have two very basic exterior scenes and a relatively simple interor scene where animation sounds play, and 4 complex/'busy' exterior scenes where they don't play at all or only a low percentage of them plays.

Still a way to go before we get this all figured out, I suspect.

[Sunjammer]

Out of interest which animations are you using in the test (i.e. that worked)? Are these different from the ones in your original areas (i.e. that didn't work)?

[AlanSJF]

Sunjammer wrote...

Out of interest which animations are you using in the test (i.e. that worked)? Are these different from the ones in your original areas (i.e. that didn't work)?

The animations I used in the 32x32 and 192x192 tests are:

test creature 1:
mh.dg_tk_psy_oth
mh.dg_draw_w_stab

test creature 2:
mh.cb_atk_2h_en (+ draw weapon action)
mh.cb_atk_2h_swing_h

test creature 3:
mh.dg_f_5p
mh_c.dw_ent (+ 2 draw weapon actions)
mh_c.dw_tal_crp_atk

Apart from the first 2 (test creature 1) which I used because I wanted to test them for a future project, these are all animations I've used in my previous cutscenes - in most cases (exterior scenes) the sounds associated with them did not play in-game, but they did in the 32x32 and 192x192 tests.

And now I'm really glad you've asked me that question Sunjammer, because until now I honestly hadn't noticed they're all mh. or mh_. Very interesting.

I think I'm going to take this further and run tests using all the animations I've used in my exterior scenes. Let's see if I can get ones that don't start with mh. or mh_ to play with sound ...

[Sunjammer]

You might find the Animation File section on the file naming conventions page helpful if you want to decode things.

The mh just means male human so unless you were trying to use them on other creatures that probably isn't significant. However other parts of the file name might be.

Modifié par Sunjammer, 11 novembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[AlanSJF]

Sunjammer wrote...

You might find the Animation File section on the file naming conventions page helpful if you want to decode things.

The mh just means male human so unless you were trying to use them on other creatures that probably isn't significant. However other parts of the file name might be.

Thanks for the link.

I've set myself quite a task, it seems - I've used a helluva lot of animations across my 5 cutscenes. From memory I can say that none of the animations I've used for darkspawn played with sound, and neither did any of the werewolf animations.

This will take time, but hopefully I'll hit upon something that points us in the right direction.