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[Default137]

So why did Loghain betray the king, and leave everyone to die at Ostagar? From what I understand of the man, he is extremely loyal to Ferelden the country, moreso then Fereldens king, and is also the type who does morally ambigous things if he feels it is best for the country, but neither of those really explain why he betrayed the king, and left everyone to die at Ostagar.

The plan probably would have worked had he charged, and they would have wiped out the Dark Spawn at that battle, so what caused him to leave? It can't have been his dislike of the Gray Wardens, because nobody is going to leave their people  to die because something they dislike is helping them, and from what I understand, he really didn't HATE the Gray Wardens anymore, he just didn't trust them, and didn't feel they were neccesary anymore.

I'm curious, because all other Bioware games have a villian that has good, solid concrete reasons for their actions, not just because they want to be bad for the sake of being bad, and Loghain seems to fit moreso into the latter catagory then the action "I have my reasons" type of baddie, which is strange, because according to my friends who have the novels, he is not the type of person to power grab, in fact, in the novels, he gave up several chances where he could have, and instead focused on making his friend the best ruler he could be.

Really the only thing I can think of is that he felt the King was not a good fit for Ferelden anymore, and that he would make a better rule for Ferelden in the long run, at least until someone better was found, but that goes against his character, the Loghain from the books seems like he would be more inclined to either strengthen the Kings faults through morally ambigous actions ( have the Gray Wardens killed off, have a friend of the kings die during a major battle because the King wanted to overextend for glory, etc. ), or on a longshot possibilty, killed the King, then helped build up someone else who would have been a better ruler, like Arl Eamon.

Instead, he goes about killing the King, making the country weak, and then starting a Civil War, seemingly the only reason for these actions is to present a challenge for the PC, rather then any sort of character developmental reasons, unless I missed them.

So yeah, I'm curious, so far I've beaten the game once, and I still haven;t figured it out, maybe I missed something, but I would really like to know, and yes, I know you can get him as a Companion, and he will probably tell me why there, but really, it will take me months to finally make a character that will actually let Alistar leave my party, and I'm impatient.

Off-Topic, but thats another thing that bugs me, Alistar during the Landsmeet, during the ENTIRE game we were going around countryside, making allies, taking literally anyone and anything we could get, doing whatever it took, just because if we didn't Ferelden would fall, this entire time, he was agreeing with me, that we would do whatever it took to defeat the Archdemon, that we needed all these allies, and I slowly got him to get over the death of Duncan.

Then we hit the Landsmeet, and on my first go, I saved Loghain, and offered him a chance to join the Gray Wardens, and redeem himself, and Alistar gets PISSED, calls me all sorts of things, then stomps off, even though he was my romance option, had 100% approval with my actions, and was set to be King, it just felt like this was thrown in there only to make sure you didn't have two tanks, or something, rather then due to Storyline, I mean, the guy got over Duncan through my help, he was madly in love with my character, he agreed we needed to do whatever it took to stop the Blight.....

Then I invite Loghain in to help us, someone who had this situation occured would have been ABSURDLY useful to the Wardens, due to his tactical knowledge, and his command of a battlefield, and Alistar cries like a little girl about something I already helped him get over, completly seems to break the character he showed me nearly all game, then leaves.

What the nelly?

And yes, I realize, put the Spoilers in the Spoiler section, for some reason the website won't accept my game code, and well, even if it did, this is not strategy debate, or anything like that, its about why people did certain things, which I think would be better in General, if I'm wrong, and it IS supposed to be in Spoilers anyway, could a mod just move it over?

[Ed Mckman]

I would love to discuss this but you have to bring up too many major spoilers to have a good discussion, get it moved to the spoilers section

[Default137]

Ed Mckman wrote...

I would love to discuss this but you have to bring up too many major spoilers to have a good discussion, get it moved to the spoilers section

As I said, I would love to, but my key does not work when I try to register for that, most likely a bug on the website, and it doesn't recognize used copies of DA:O, or something along those lines.

[Rakan13]

Wow you just love to ruin players fun who do not want spoilers posted in general.... If you key does not work there is this cool thing you can do... you can CALL EA to get your key registered. How hard is that... come on....

[Elwoodw]

Then don't post.

[Tyrlani]

Rakan13 wrote...

Wow you just love to ruin players fun who do not want spoilers posted in general.... If you key does not work there is this cool thing you can do... you can CALL EA to get your key registered. How hard is that... come on....

How hard is it to NOT click on a thread title that contains the word "spoiler"? Forum rules aside, I really don't get why people are getting so hung up on this. No one is forcing you to read these threads. In fact, I clicked into the thread, avoided the OP and just read the replies that I *knew* would be here - it really wasn't that difficult.

With regards to the forums, if people are having trouble getting the game registered, etc., maybe remove the registration requirement from the spoliers section for the time being? Should keep everyone happy in the short term until the problem is sorted. Also, adding a few more specific sections to the forums wouldn't be a bad idea. And a search function that works would be nice .

[bobsmyuncle]

So anyway, to discuss the original (spoilery) topic...

I was in the same boat, I wished Alistair were more pragmatic but he simply isn't. Essentially you're punishing Loghain with the joining and Alistair respects the Wardens too much to permit you to use the order as a punishment.

Also, I don't think he's ever going to get over Duncan's death any more than he would get over Eamon's death. They're the closest thing to a father he has ever had and nobody ever "gets over" the loss of such a person, even if you are able to comfort him in his grief or help him gain some perspective on the situation. Alistair is simply very emotional and I think expecting him to make reasoned, practical decisions is unrealistic