35 réponses à ce sujet

[Ares Caesar]

mosor wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

This is exactly the question I wanted to figure out. I tried to compare the Tempest vs the Locust on squadmates. Ran thru the IFF mission ( before the core ).

Had all upgrades, playing soldier, with squad cryo on Insanity, on xbox. Shepard used the cryo ammo on all guns also, no heavy weapons ammo used.

Miranda and Samara ( both on SMG ) Tempest 981, Locust 960
Miranda and Kasumi ( both on SMG ) Tempest 947, Locust 991
Mordin and Kasumi ( both on SMG ) Tempest 983, Locust 934

Measured the seconds to clear the areas ( skipping cutscenes )

They do a lot of shooting on this map, and only have to worry about the Scions killing them as long as you keep them close to you. You do a lot of shooting also. It looks like the other gameplay factors matter more than the difference in the SMG - neither is superior.

Not really a good location to judge SMG's because it all depends on how long does it take for cryo to kick in. With a carnifiex pistol it's 1 shot, with the smg, it's a lot more random. With the numbers as is though, your numbers are not really statistically significant when factoring in margin of error, which is going to be much greater than 3%.

Thats what I was trying to explain to him was that by using a "sample" with that many variables makes any sort of true calculation or evaluation nearly impossible. As I said, its hard enough to simply sit and watch your squad fire weapons from cover while NOT shooting, and count their shots, factor in if they killed target or not(which changes how long they obviously will continue to stay out of cover and shoot), and how likely they are to get hit because of the burst time-to cover and damage dealt.

Without cutting down on the # of  variables you'll never really know. AI's have such a rudimentary level of programed scripting compared to human consistancy of action(how often are you REALLY able to do something EXACTLY the same over and over and over?) that simply letting the AI do what it does and making observations on that alone is far more effective as its far more consistent and less varied in action than humans.

[imemoria]

Incisor is nearly broken, IMO. I was able to let thane and zaeed solo the majority of the missions and assignments, beside vorchas and krogan regen ( wich I warped as an adept to get rid of their regen), in insanity mode

[swn32]

Legion with the Widow is pure win. Too bad he comes so late in the game.

[Ares Caesar]

imemoria wrote...

Incisor is nearly broken, IMO. I was able to let thane and zaeed solo the majority of the missions and assignments, beside vorchas and krogan regen ( wich I warped as an adept to get rid of their regen), in insanity mode

For what its worth, considering how poor it is by comparison to the Mantis, Viper, and Widow on Shepard, AND you actually had to pay extra to get it, it'd better be overpowered on squadmates.

Really the problem with the squadmates use is a couple things

1) Squadmates do not have limited ammo, unlike Shepard. Thus, changing a large part of what made it such a poor sniper for Shepard.

2) Squadmates with snipers do actually try for headshots. If fully upgraded, most sniper rifles become pretty powerful for squadmates. The only difference is with unlimited ammo, burst fire (vs single shot/semi auto), and bonus damage against all protections, it becomes more practical to keep on a squadmate rather than only occassionally switching them to snipers when protections and distance calls for it. Any squadmate that can equip a sniper now has an assault rifle with way more damage, accuracy, and increased headshot counts.

There are just a lot of things that get factored into making it too powerful, and unless Bioware specifically reduced the damage of the weapon (and not snipers overall), it will just be unbalanced because of how the AI handles squadmates use of snipers, which clearly were NOT designed for auto/burst fire snipers.

Then of course Zaeed and Thane with the 50% weapon passive become even more ridiculous with it... personally I think even Garrus is a beast with it. (Love having overload and concussive shot)

SOLUTION: Reduced damage with Incisor for squadmates (probably about 50% less), INCREASED ammo totals+pickup count for Shepard with Incisor. (90 perhaps?-giving it 30 total shots)

Like I said, if it wasnt for the fact that its terrible for Shepard, I'd have more of a problem with it, but I paid extra to get it, thinking it'd be pretty cool for my infiltrator, only to find I'd take the Viper, Widow, or even Mantis ANY day over it. So the only time I ever get to see it is when the squadmates have it, and I feel thats fair enough after getting gypped on buying it.

If you dont have most of the upgrades for the Snipers, then its really not quite as ridiculous... its once you get the headshot increase it goes to another level.

[Frybread76]

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but most people say the Tempest is better than the Locust for your squad mates who carry SMG's. Do the computer-controlled players have auto-aim or something?

[Ares Caesar]

Frybread76 wrote...

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but most people say the Tempest is better than the Locust for your squad mates who carry SMG's. Do the computer-controlled players have auto-aim or something?

Pretty much. Squadmates do NOT have recoil issues with the Tempest UNLIKE Shepard(you) who cannot burst fire with the Tempest accurately at range like the Locust.

Tempest= Squadmates
Locust = You 

HOWEVER, as I posted earlier in this thread and tried to get going in another, the Tempest also is one of the LEAST survivable weapons, because squadmates burst fire LONGER with the Tempest than with the Shuriken or Locust. They'll do more damage (alot more), but they also will stick out of cover for longer durations than with those other 2 SMGs. On Casual-Veteran difficulty, I think its the Tempest no doubt, on Hardcore-Insanity, it becomes much more questionable, and depends on how much you want that squadmates powers or their weapon damage assistance.

Squadmates dont react to getting damaged, and when shields and health are low, they dont care they'll pop back out of cover and shoot anyway, and with the Tempest they'll be hanging their butts out of cover for longer meaning they'll get hit even more. Its a trade off, if you manage your squad well, and YOU take the majority of enemy fire, then Tempest wins easily, but if you dont always like to keep an eye on them, or sometimes like to sit back, then I'd recommend the Locust or Shuriken for squadmates.

[LordPennlocke]

Myself: Rev, Geth Shotgun, Phalanx, Mantis, Cain.
Squadmates with ARs: Mattock
Squadmates with SMGs: Tempest
Squadmates with Snipers: Incisor
Squadmates with H.Pistols: I like the sound the Phalanx makes, though the Carnifex is better dps-wise.
Squadmates with Shotguns: Geth Plasma

Modifié par LordPennlocke, 02 octobre 2010 - 05:14 .

[imemoria]

Ares Caesar wrote...

imemoria wrote...

Incisor is nearly broken, IMO. I was able to let thane and zaeed solo the majority of the missions and assignments, beside vorchas and krogan regen ( wich I warped as an adept to get rid of their regen), in insanity mode

For what its worth, considering how poor it is by comparison to the Mantis, Viper, and Widow on Shepard, AND you actually had to pay extra to get it, it'd better be overpowered on squadmates.

Really the problem with the squadmates use is a couple things

1) Squadmates do not have limited ammo, unlike Shepard. Thus, changing a large part of what made it such a poor sniper for Shepard.

2) Squadmates with snipers do actually try for headshots. If fully upgraded, most sniper rifles become pretty powerful for squadmates. The only difference is with unlimited ammo, burst fire (vs single shot/semi auto), and bonus damage against all protections, it becomes more practical to keep on a squadmate rather than only occassionally switching them to snipers when protections and distance calls for it. Any squadmate that can equip a sniper now has an assault rifle with way more damage, accuracy, and increased headshot counts.

There are just a lot of things that get factored into making it too powerful, and unless Bioware specifically reduced the damage of the weapon (and not snipers overall), it will just be unbalanced because of how the AI handles squadmates use of snipers, which clearly were NOT designed for auto/burst fire snipers.

Then of course Zaeed and Thane with the 50% weapon passive become even more ridiculous with it... personally I think even Garrus is a beast with it. (Love having overload and concussive shot)

SOLUTION: Reduced damage with Incisor for squadmates (probably about 50% less), INCREASED ammo totals+pickup count for Shepard with Incisor. (90 perhaps?-giving it 30 total shots)

Like I said, if it wasnt for the fact that its terrible for Shepard, I'd have more of a problem with it, but I paid extra to get it, thinking it'd be pretty cool for my infiltrator, only to find I'd take the Viper, Widow, or even Mantis ANY day over it. So the only time I ever get to see it is when the squadmates have it, and I feel thats fair enough after getting gypped on buying it.

If you dont have most of the upgrades for the Snipers, then its really not quite as ridiculous... its once you get the headshot increase it goes to another level.

yep I pretty much agree for garrus although I don't like the character. but I took him on nearly every mission with zaeed to compare AR vs Sniper on squadmates because they are trained in both. beside doing more damage( slighly in fact) than the Vindicator( mattock is pretty weak on squadies), the squadmates are using a different AI with the Incisor, and are spending less time out of cover, greatly increasing their survivability. they solo the suicide mission, me just managing the heat reducers for tali...

[imemoria]

Ares Caesar wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but most people say the Tempest is better than the Locust for your squad mates who carry SMG's. Do the computer-controlled players have auto-aim or something?

Pretty much. Squadmates do NOT have recoil issues with the Tempest UNLIKE Shepard(you) who cannot burst fire with the Tempest accurately at range like the Locust.

Tempest= Squadmates
Locust = You 

HOWEVER, as I posted earlier in this thread and tried to get going in another, the Tempest also is one of the LEAST survivable weapons, because squadmates burst fire LONGER with the Tempest than with the Shuriken or Locust. They'll do more damage (alot more), but they also will stick out of cover for longer durations than with those other 2 SMGs. On Casual-Veteran difficulty, I think its the Tempest no doubt, on Hardcore-Insanity, it becomes much more questionable, and depends on how much you want that squadmates powers or their weapon damage assistance.

Squadmates dont react to getting damaged, and when shields and health are low, they dont care they'll pop back out of cover and shoot anyway, and with the Tempest they'll be hanging their butts out of cover for longer meaning they'll get hit even more. Its a trade off, if you manage your squad well, and YOU take the majority of enemy fire, then Tempest wins easily, but if you dont always like to keep an eye on them, or sometimes like to sit back, then I'd recommend the Locust or Shuriken for squadmates.

on miranda for example, I prefer the locust for her survivability, she doesn't do much damage anyway, and I prefer her alive than dead...

[Katamariguy]

Phalanx

Mattock

Eviscerator

Incisor

Tempest

[PnXMarcin1PL]

myself: rev (if i go for ar advancement) or avenger or gpr;

mantis or widow (if i go for sniper advancement), handcannon or phalanx, i usually used katana before the firepower pack, now I use geth shotgun and for reaper iff i choose katana or scimitar (depends from my mood), heavy weapons: any that suits mission, i never use flamethrower though.

for my squadmates: geth shotgun, mantis, avenger or mattock, phalanx or handcannon, some use shuriken, some us tempest and some use locust