105 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Duncan didn't get enough screen time. I mean apparently the Warden and Duncan travel for days to get to Ostagar but the player doesn't get to experience it. It would have been amazing if Duncan had been something of a mentor (if the player allows) to the Warden, and it would have made his death feel more poignant.

[Bahlgan]

I must second this! I imagined a story in my Warden where he spends those days trying to overcome the death of his Cousland family, and Duncan manages to spare a few powerful pearls of wisdom, additional to the most basic of lessons the Grey Wardens learned over their history, in order to push my Warden forth. It was truly the most shameful thing to hear that Duncan had not as much an impact, save his narrations, on the series as I had hoped.



Individuals can argue he had a huge story impact on "The Calling", but I am NOT talking about the novel. I am talking about Origins! I had desired some form of student-teacher dichotomy which had my Warden TRULY understand his heart within the short week or so of time they had known eachother.

[CalJones]

Well, I must say that, other than looking quite cool, Duncan didn't really have much of an impact on me. Obviously, if you've played all the origins, you get to know him a little better but even so, when he died I was more *shrug* than boo-hoo.

[yangthecat]

Well, what would a few days of traveling with Duncan mean in terms of gameplay? Walking around with a guy while he talks at you? Having a long campfire chat about the Grey Wardens, in which he tells you none of the things that have to be revealed later (the joining, the calling, how an archdemon is killed)?

Like CalJones, Duncan's death didn't have much of an impact on me, and considering that my PCs have only known him for maybe a week, I'm fine with that.

At that point in my story, I'm dealing with having lost everything I've known, possibly grieving over the death of someone close to me, and now left as one of just two surviving grey wardens in the whole country, shouldered with the burden of ending the blight. Duncan is Alistair's father-figure, not mine.

[Bahlgan]

Some people are just like that. Others really saw something in him as a father figure. While he is not the most promising of mentors, as to that he bluntly eliminated Jory, he does contain some highly moral values such as the "always press forward". Despite popular belief that most can easily instigate the "we already know this ****" statement, one can be surprised as to how much they can forget and then, at a later occurrence, recall these morals. And as far as the getting used to losses, that is entirely decent, but quite honestly, as my Warden is a Cousland, I would desire to find others to ask for advice and run to for the occasional pep talk; Duncan would have been my go-to guy as far as being a student goes. Since he died, then obviously Alistair and my Warden were really helping each other out during the Blight.



My personal feelings aside, I still believe 'twould be an awesome feature to allow Duncan to talk with the Warden about coping with the pain; I sense a reference he could dig up. For most people it might not sound all that important, but the immersion of the game would go up if something as important as those few moments with him could be embellished.

[Obadiah]

I agree that Duncan did not get enough screen time. the game could have done with a small camp interlude between the origin and Ostagar where Duncan could have tested the main character's skills and given some pointers, similar to that scene in Kingdom of Heaven near the beginning where Oralndo Bloom's and Liam Neeson's character got to know each other after they left the small village.

For some reason (outfit, appearance, style, awesome beard...) Duncan just seemed so exotically cool and paternal (haven't played dwarf noble yet so not sure how that was) that the few minutes of convo time he got left an indelible impression on me for the entire game. Of course, one cannot forget the ruthlessness of the joining ritual

Anyone else here read The Calling? I am now and it is kind of shocking that he carries himself with such purpose and dignity, and represents the Wardens the way he does after the circumstances around his mentor and the way Duncan joined.

Modifié par Obadiah, 24 septembre 2010 - 03:43 .

[TJPags]

Duncan? Not enough screen time? Meh.



Honestly, the guy meant nothing to me. That whole "Grey Warden mentor" nonsense? I laughed at it - seriously, even BEFORE he died, my PC spent more time around Jory than he had around Duncan. Why the game wants to make him some sort of mystic father figure in my PC's life, I don't get at all.

[Bahlgan]

Obadiah wrote...

I agree that Duncan did not get enough screen time. the game could have done with a small camp interlude between the origin and Ostagar where Duncan could have tested the main character's skills and given some pointers, similar to that scene in Kingdom of Heaven near the beginning where Oralndo Bloom's and Liam Neeson's character got to know each other after they leave the small village.

YES!!! YES!!! Haha Kingdom of Heaven was the perfect reference there! Duncan and Liam Neeson do have that connection between the two forms of media! Either that or Sean Connery from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen!

Of course, one cannot forget the ruthlessness of the joining ritual

It is something I am willing to overlook. Though I felt bad for Jory, he DID draw his blade.

Anyone else here read The Calling? I am now and it is kind of shocking that he carries himself with such purpose and dignity, and represents the Wardens the way he does after the circumstances around his mentor and the way Duncan joined.

I must get those books, even though I am aware of how it all ends either way. These books seem interesting enough for me to invest some extra minutes in what trifle breaks I get in my schedule. It's too bad that those most precious moments revealed by Duncan were not done so with the Warden's presence.

[gamestress]

I love Duncan, and the King too for that matter. I missed him, he was def gone too soon.

[Reika]

I did like Duncan, even before I played any of the other Origins and wished he had more time.



Cailan otoh, I sorely wanted to strangle myself.

[CalJones]

I must admit my feelings (or lack thereof) toward Duncan didn't change after reading the Calling, either. (The less said about Cailan, the better.)

[Tigress M]

I think we're meant to make a connection with him. He's the lone GW we see in the opening movie and it's his voice that introduces us to the world of Thedas. It's natural for us as new players to a game to connect with anything at all familiar and he's the first familiar thing we see.

That being said, what I never quite understood was Alistair's attachment to him. I mean, he's only been a GW for six months and Duncan's been roaming all over Fereldan looking for recruits vs spending time with Alistair. It would have made more sense if A) Alistair had been a GW for number of years or Alistair accompanied Duncan in his travels.

But, to get back to the OT, I, too, would have liked to have seen more of Duncan. I think he's a wonderful character (despite the rough edges that come to light in the books).

[TJPags]

Tigress M wrote...

I think we're meant to make a connection with him. He's the lone GW we see in the opening movie and it's his voice that introduces us to the world of Thedas. It's natural for us as new players to a game to connect with anything at all familiar and he's the first familiar thing we see.
That being said, what I never quite understood was Alistair's attachment to him. I mean, he's only been a GW for six months and Duncan's been roaming all over Fereldan looking for recruits vs spending time with Alistair. It would have made more sense if A) Alistair had been a GW for number of years or Alistair accompanied Duncan in his travels.
But, to get back to the OT, I, too, would have liked to have seen more of Duncan. I think he's a wonderful character (despite the rough edges that come to light in the books).

1.  I think we are supposed to make a connection with him, too.  But, the game just doesn;t give me enough to do that.

2.  Agree.  Just like with our warden, we really don't see much to allow the way Alistair feels about Duncan to make sense.

3.  Seeing more of him, enough to make that connection they clearly want us to make, would have been fine, since without it, the whole connection is a farce.

The more time I spend on these boards, the more I realize that, while DAO was a great game, there was the potential for it to have been even better.  Sadly, that potential was never realized.

[Obadiah]

TJPags wrote...
The more time I spend on these boards, the more I realize that, while DAO was a great game, there was the potential for it to have been even better.  Sadly, that potential was never realized.

Seriously. Now that Bioware is finished with Origins, I hope people are able to mod the original campaign with more and better content (a larger Brecillian Forest for one), and maybe add that human commoner origin that is sorely missing.

[TJPags]

Obadiah wrote...

TJPags wrote...
The more time I spend on these boards, the more I realize that, while DAO was a great game, there was the potential for it to have been even better.  Sadly, that potential was never realized.

Seriously. Now that Bioware is finished with Origins, I hope people are able to mod the original campaign with more and better content (a larger Brecillian Forest for one), and maybe add that human commoner origin that is sorely missing.

Well, I'm on the 360, so that wouldn't work for me (unless I somehow steal the PC version away from the wife).

And while new area mods might be nice, mods for more Duncan time wouldn't do it for me, really - I'd think they'd likely be skewed by how the modder feels about him, and not so much a "let the player make up their mind" scenario.

[RavenousBear]

To be honest, I never thought of him as the mentor for the Warden. Sure, he had the potential to be like Obi-Wan (yeah, SW reference, stab me if you wish) but his presence in the game was too short. I did not feel anything when he was chopped down during the Battle of Ostagar.

Still, I would have prefered him as a mentor than that "fussy mage" from the Circle Tower. Too bad, I can deal with it.

[Reika]

Well, speaking from my own RL experience, having someone give a damn about you and what you want as a father-figure is a powerful thing. Duncan seemed like a decent sort and Riordan said that Duncan's only soft spot was his recruits and I think he showed that to Alistair the most.

[TJPags]

Caak7i wrote...

To be honest, I never thought of him as the mentor for the Warden. Sure, he had the potential to be like Obi-Wan (yeah, SW reference, stab me if you wish) but his presence in the game was too short. I did not feel anything when he was chopped down during the Battle of Ostagar.

Still, I would have prefered him as a mentor than that "fussy mage" from the Circle Tower. Too bad, I can deal with it.

Exactly.  If they had showed him more, and I'd had the option to actually bond with him, then maybe.  As it is, he's just another dead guy at Ostagar.

@Relka - I agree with what you say, and except for my DE (who was NOT happy about being conscripted) my PC's have never HATED him, or even disliked him.  I personally don't dislike the character - just wish the game had given us that insight to see him as a mentor.  I also don't think the Alistair dialogue options (the ones I've seen, anyway) really show Duncan as that kind of father-figure Ali makes him out to be, although again, I do understand what a powerful emotional bond that can be.

[RavenousBear]

Reika wrote...

Well, speaking from my own RL experience, having someone give a damn about you and what you want as a father-figure is a powerful thing. Duncan seemed like a decent sort and Riordan said that Duncan's only soft spot was his recruits and I think he showed that to Alistair the most.

In the HN & DE origins, you can refuse to go with Duncan and he just conscripts you. He really needs more recruits especially since the Warden numbers in Ferelden are very low due to past history. Sure, he seems like a nice guy infront of most people within the game, but I do see the pragmatic side in him. 

[Obadiah]

Caak7i wrote...

Reika wrote...

Well, speaking from my own RL experience, having someone give a damn about you and what you want as a father-figure is a powerful thing. Duncan seemed like a decent sort and Riordan said that Duncan's only soft spot was his recruits and I think he showed that to Alistair the most.

In the HN & DE origins, you can refuse to go with Duncan and he just conscripts you. He really needs more recruits especially since the Warden numbers in Ferelden are very low due to past history. Sure, he seems like a nice guy infront of most people within the game, but I do see the pragmatic side in him. 

He conscripted my Dwarf Commoner too. Be that as it may I felt he pulled off the whole dignified-warrior-with-heavy-secret-burden well, and as the guy who reached out to help my characters, pragmatist or not, I looked up to him as the example of what a Grey Warden should be.

[LadyJaneGrey]

yangthecat wrote...

Well, what would a few days of traveling with Duncan mean in terms of gameplay? Walking around with a guy while he talks at you? Having a long campfire chat about the Grey Wardens, in which he tells you none of the things that have to be revealed later (the joining, the calling, how an archdemon is killed)?

I'm with you.  As a gamer, I'd be cursing the lack of information.  Just having the training sessions mentioned earlier  could have been helpful.

[RavenousBear]

Obadiah wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Reika wrote...

Well, speaking from my own RL experience, having someone give a damn about you and what you want as a father-figure is a powerful thing. Duncan seemed like a decent sort and Riordan said that Duncan's only soft spot was his recruits and I think he showed that to Alistair the most.

In the HN & DE origins, you can refuse to go with Duncan and he just conscripts you. He really needs more recruits especially since the Warden numbers in Ferelden are very low due to past history. Sure, he seems like a nice guy infront of most people within the game, but I do see the pragmatic side in him. 

He conscripted my Dwarf Commoner too. Be that as it may I felt he pulled off the whole dignified-warrior-with-heavy-secret-burden well, and as the guy who reached out to help my characters, pragmatist or not, I looked up to him as the example of what a Grey Warden should be.

I am not saying he is a bad person; he is leagues above many of the fiends and friendly npcs in the game. However, I am not going to label him as a hero quite yet since I know little about him and his past.

Compared to some of the other origins, he does act more like a hero in the DC's when denying the guards from arresting the DC for violating their sacred laws in the Provings after breaking from Beraht's base.

Modifié par Caak7i, 25 septembre 2010 - 02:55 .

[Reika]

Caak7i wrote...

Compared to some of the other origins, he does act more like a hero in the DC's when denying the guards from arresting the DC for violating their sacred laws in the Provings.

When you were doing the proving and you get exposed you can see that Duncan is intrigued and I think he was trying not to laugh.

[RavenousBear]

Reika wrote...

Caak7i wrote...

Compared to some of the other origins, he does act more like a hero in the DC's when denying the guards from arresting the DC for violating their sacred laws in the Provings.

When you were doing the proving and you get exposed you can see that Duncan is intrigued and I think he was trying not to laugh.

I forgot to add in the "after breaking from Beraht's base" from my previous when he conscripts you and saves your life. The other scene I believe he tried to talk to the proving master into letting the DC go but the master was too furious with the "shame" the DC brought to the ceremony. It has been a long time since I played that origin so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

[Reika]

Caak7i wrote...

I forgot to add in the "after breaking from Beraht's base" from my previous when he conscripts you and saves your life. The other scene I believe he tried to talk to the proving master into letting the DC go but the master was too furious with the "shame" the DC brought to the ceremony. It has been a long time since I played that origin so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

I knew what you meant, but I thought Duncan's reaction at the proving was amusing.