252 réponses à ce sujet

[Count Viceroy]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

I think it is great that there is a
LI that isn't sweet and virginal. We've got too many of those already,
with Tali & Liara. It would be kind of lame if Miranda was described
as being so absorbed in her work that she was sexless, and just waiting
for Shepard to come along.

What? I'm pretty sure you can't call liara "sweet and virginal" in Me2, esp not after lotsb

I didn't mind the sex chats and all that. Made sense in the context imo. Also the infertilety bit was rather sad. I was romancing her at the time when I read it as well.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[axl99]

Spend two years on a job with a multi-tasking boss with OCD looking over your shoulder every 5 minutes, and even the most hardcore workaholic will eventually succumb to base desires for stress relief/companionship. Miranda's all like superwoman - sure, but she's not a robot.



As for wanting to get pregnant, well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it - genetic incapability or no. It's tragic of course, it's her father's final insult to her. It's probably not difficult for Miranda to use a similar artificial procedure to create offspring, and while it renders the point moot she will still get what she wants. Although raising Shepard from the dead to me does come across as almost laborious as the 9 month term. At this point, I like to humour the idea that Miranda's constant headbutting with Shepard was simply just her mothering over him/her. Just a thought.

[jlb524]

To answer:



1) The dating service thing doesn't bother me. Miranda wanted sex with no strings attached, and this doesn't make her a *insert derogatory word for a woman who likes sex*



2) I think Miranda is infertile. It may be caused by the manner in which she was created. If she does want a child later down the road, she and her partner can adopt, or create a child in the same fashion in which she was created.



3) Some of the dossiers were fun (like Grunt's), but I do think they are meant to be taken seriously, by which I mean they are canon. Miranda is a woman that doesn't have any hangups about sex and is comfortable with herself as a sexual creature. I think that's part of her canon characterization.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Count Viceroy wrote...

What? I'm pretty sure you can't call liara "sweet and virginal" in Me2, esp not after lotsb

She is sweet & virginal when Shepard & Liara consummate their relationship. Also, while in ME2 and Lotsb Liara is not so sweet anymore, there isn't any indication to my knowledge that she has slept with anyone except Shepard.

[PsyrenY]

TeenZombie wrote...

So being nasty and condescending towards me is supposed to prove that you're liberated and "above" stripping a female character of her agency, just because you're homosexual?  You're not proving anything, except my first point.  You don't think Miranda is capable of JUST having sex for fun.  She is.  That is what she was doing.  Having medical records about her fertility next to proof of that doesn't mean anything.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea that Miranda can go out and have sex for fun. I just don't think it's noteworthy enough for the writers to make prominent in a Shadow Broker surveillance dossier.

The fact that you consider it so noteworthy means YOU are the one stripping her of her agency, not me. Is a woman wanting to have sex that monumental an event to you?

[Werewolf2010]

All I know is that when I read those files all I thought was "Oh, you poor girl. You weren't even allowed to have any humanity for yourself were you?":crying:

Modifié par Werewolf2010, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Count Viceroy]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

What? I'm pretty sure you can't call liara "sweet and virginal" in Me2, esp not after lotsb

She is sweet & virginal when Shepard & Liara consummate their relationship. Also, while in ME2 and Lotsb Liara is not so sweet anymore, there isn't any indication to my knowledge that she has slept with anyone except Shepard.

In Me1 sure, but I was arguing about her being put in the same boat as tali, which must be in ME2 as she's not available otherwise. And I was referring to virginal behaviour, rather than actual number of people slept with, Which Tali oozes of but Liara doesn't.

Any way, it's rather offtopic.

[AntiChri5]

jlb524 wrote...

*insert derogatory word for a woman who likes sex*

Both men and women are biologically designed to want and like sex.

Some people need to just deal with that.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea that Miranda can go out and have sex for fun. I just don't think it's noteworthy enough for the writers to make prominent in a Shadow Broker surveillance dossier.

The fact that you consider it so noteworthy means YOU are the one stripping her of her agency, not me. Is a woman wanting to have sex that monumental an event to you?

Grunt googling sharks was considered important enough to be included.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Count Viceroy]

jlb524 wrote...

*insert derogatory word for a woman who likes sex*
.

The perfect date? 



3 words, damn.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Optimystic_X wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

So being nasty and condescending towards me is supposed to prove that you're liberated and "above" stripping a female character of her agency, just because you're homosexual?  You're not proving anything, except my first point.  You don't think Miranda is capable of JUST having sex for fun.  She is.  That is what she was doing.  Having medical records about her fertility next to proof of that doesn't mean anything.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea that Miranda can go out and have sex for fun. I just don't think it's noteworthy enough for the writers to make prominent in a Shadow Broker surveillance dossier.

The fact that you consider it so noteworthy means YOU are the one stripping her of her agency, not me. Is a woman wanting to have sex that monumental an event to you?

It makes absolute sense for the Shadowbroker to seek to gain intel on the sexual preferences and habits of important people in the galaxy, or potential enemies. Real world intelligence organizations do this as well, as that information can help create a psychological profile, as well as being potentially useful in blackmailing people into cooperation (say for example, threatening to expose a closted gay man) or to set them up for an assassination.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[Pedrak]

Maybe she wanted both to have casual sex and to have a baby, and tried to kill two birds with one stone.



While there's nothing "evil!" about trying to do this as she did, it does add a certain feel of loneliness and sadness to the character.

[Aedan_Cousland]

It doesn't make much sense to attempt to get pregnant while on a suicide mission. Of course we know Miranda can survive, but what we know and the characters know is different. Shepard and the dirty dozen don't expect to return from the Collector base.

If Miranda was having casual sex in an attempt to get pregnant, it would make much more sense for that to have happened before she joined Shepard on the Normandy. However, the SR2 in her user name suggests otherwise. I think she was looking for casual sex just for the sex, and the pregnancy issue was unrelated.

[Eldareus]

It seemed to me she rejected most men on the dating once she learned of any health issues or she flat out them because of their approach. I didn't get the sense she was looking for just cheap meaningless sex. It appeared to me she was screening men based on their health, personality, and genes. Sure Bioware was poking some fun at onlike dating services and the sterotypical personalities one might find there, but nothing to suggest to me that Miranda was a loose woman.



For some people being told they are infertile is devasting news.

[Pedrak]

Aedan,
I assumed the "SR2" in her user name was there because she knew she was gonna be on the second Normandy soon. After the game starts, it's not as if she'd have many chances for random sexual encounters as Shep is making her travel from one planet to another, frantically performing dangerous missions.

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[PsyrenY]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Grunt googling sharks was considered important enough to be included.

Grunt's googles were monumentally important. His search for "sharks" was after reading "The Old Man and The Sea" and betrays a desire for understanding. It is capturing his growth from simply Okeer's failed scion to having a personality and interests all his own.

Remember Kelly's comment about him: "I don't think he cares about anything, including who lives or dies." His growing enthusiasm for classical literature belies that assessment and shows he is growing past it.

If all you think the writers wanted to portray was "Miranda is horny!!111!!" with that series of exchanges, you need to brush up on your analytical skills.



EDIT: Also, what Pedrak said. We can't pin down a timeline for Miranda based on her username other than "sometime between 2 years ago and when the SB was killed."

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 23 septembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[AntiChri5]

Optimystic_X wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Grunt googling sharks was considered important enough to be included.

Grunt's googles were monumentally important. His search for "sharks" was after reading "Old Man and the Sea" and betrays a desire for understanding. It is capturing his growth from simply Okeer's failed scion to having a personality and interests all his own.

Remember Kelly's comment about him: "I don't think he cares about anything, including who lives or dies." His growing enthusiasm for classical literature belies that assessment and shows he is growing past it.

If all you think the writers wanted to portray was "Miranda is horny!!111!!" with that series of exchanges, you need to brush up on your analytical skills.

No, they wanted to portray her as a woman, with a womans needs.

Besides there is heaps of rather unimportant information.

[syllogi]

Optimystic_X wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

So being nasty and condescending towards me is supposed to prove that you're liberated and "above" stripping a female character of her agency, just because you're homosexual?  You're not proving anything, except my first point.  You don't think Miranda is capable of JUST having sex for fun.  She is.  That is what she was doing.  Having medical records about her fertility next to proof of that doesn't mean anything.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea that Miranda can go out and have sex for fun. I just don't think it's noteworthy enough for the writers to make prominent in a Shadow Broker surveillance dossier.

The fact that you consider it so noteworthy means YOU are the one stripping her of her agency, not me. Is a woman wanting to have sex that monumental an event to you?

How does my saying "she enjoys sex for the sake of sex with no strings attached" translate into a "monumental event"???    You continue to miss the point entirely.  She uses the dating site for enjoyment, and nothing more.

The reason why the two entries in the dossier for Miranda were together was a decision on the part of the writers to show two different facets of her personality:  Miranda is capable of disengaging her emotions from sex, making it a business transaction, as seen on the dating site, but she is also concerned about FUTURE relationships, and her ability to have a family in the FUTURE, as evidenced by the medical record.  That is all there is to it. 

[PsyrenY]

Is there unimportant info within a dossier? Sure.
Is an entire dossier meaningless other than "hey, this character likes sex!"? Unlikely.

EDIT: TZ, they could have portrayed her desire for family just as well with only the final dossier. The sexual encounters on their own are unimportant, and you are the one putting them on a pedestal. Without a larger context to frame them in, they are so much wasted text.

Good writing is concise, and Bioware (presumably) has good writers.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 23 septembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[AntiChri5]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Is there unimportant info within a dossier? Sure.
Is an entire dossier meaningless other than "hey, this character likes sex!"? Unlikely.

Of course the entire Dossier wasnt meaningless other then that the character has a functioning sex drive, thats why there was more then one folder in it.

[pf17456]

The Shadow Broker's primary interest was acquiring information that could be used for the purpose of altering events and exerting control. For the most part each dossier and vid reveals points of vulnerability for each character, points that could be used to manipulate a character's behavior in a manner the SB decides.

Miranda's dossier suggests that dispite her self description of being 'near perfect' she sees herself as dammaged goods with questionable self esteem issues and underlying rage. Dangle a carrot of possible fertility in front of her and her loyalities might change.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

My interpretation of Miranda's LotSB dossier

Yeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhh, pretty much this too.
I think it will bring ramifications to the continuation/closure to romance in ME3, or not.

[Legbiter]

Whew, at least she won't hit us Sheps who romanced her up for child support in ME 3.

[Nightwriter]

I don't know what the hell to think anymore. I'm so confused.

[Zulu_DFA]

What about the other "inconsistency", in the very summary TSB put on top of Miranda's dossier: TIM was to be assassinated, and Cerberus destroyed, but Miranda was to be recruited mainly for her Human supremacism.



Recruited where to and for what, after destruction of Cerberus?



Given her infertility (no "natural" way to carry on her genes) and TSB's connection to the Reapers, I'm led to believe she was to spearhead the Humanity's "ascension" in the Reaper sense of the word.

[Pedrak]

"You cheated on me with Liara!"

"Shut up, I saw your chats... LawBringer."

*awkwardness ensues*

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2010 - 07:09 .