157 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Vandicus wrote...

The elves can't rise simply because its hard for them to breed. I think the dwarves have a similar problem or something as well. Bioware seems to be fond of this method to keep otherwise awesome races from totally dominating their games. (*hints at Krogan domination of the galaxy)

Elves have no problem with breeding. Dwarves have a low fertility rate though.

[LPPrince]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to let you know that I sent Mary a Personal Message about the Malware involved in that site.

I want to make sure no one gets infected by the site, so I implore everyone to AVOID clicking that link to the instant rimshot site.

Hopefully Mary will edit her post and remove the link. If you HAVE clicked the link and made it to the site, be careful and make sure your computer isn't infected.

If it is, then I'll apologize on Mary's behalf before she even gets here. She couldn't of known. Some people don't even get warnings when they click on sites that could be harboring malware.

Hope you guys are clean of any interweb viruses. Sorry if this looks like I'm derailing the thread, but I just wanted to make sure everyone's fine.

To bring it back to elves, I'd rather they stay in their slump for the Dragon Age. Makes them unique. If they ever DO get back to their prominence, let it be later on, in an epilogue or game that takes place after the Dragon Age ends.

Modifié par LPPrince, 28 septembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[tool_bot]

LPPrince wrote...

To bring it back to elves, I'd rather they stay in their slump for the Dragon Age. Makes them unique. If they ever DO get back to their prominence, let it be later on, in an epilogue or game that takes place after the Dragon Age ends.

I'm hoping the elves become something like the Jews of today, going thru centuries more of prejudice and hardship only to return to where Arlathan once stood and become the dominant power in the region. I like that they're complicated and that they can be both instigator and victim. I hope they keep that.

[LPPrince]

tool_bot wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

To bring it back to elves, I'd rather they stay in their slump for the Dragon Age. Makes them unique. If they ever DO get back to their prominence, let it be later on, in an epilogue or game that takes place after the Dragon Age ends.

I'm hoping the elves become something like the Jews of today, going thru centuries more of prejudice and hardship only to return to where Arlathan once stood and become the dominant power in the region. I like that they're complicated and that they can be both instigator and victim. I hope they keep that.

This. Although I think I'll refrain from calling Elves the Jews of the Dragon Age.

That's just gonna open up WAY too many jokes and snide remarks that are completely unnecessary.

But I understand what you mean, and I agree. Eventually, I want them to reach the peak they held so long ago.

I just don't want them anywhere near that YET.

[AlexXIV]

tool_bot wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

To bring it back to elves, I'd rather they stay in their slump for the Dragon Age. Makes them unique. If they ever DO get back to their prominence, let it be later on, in an epilogue or game that takes place after the Dragon Age ends.

I'm hoping the elves become something like the Jews of today, going thru centuries more of prejudice and hardship only to return to where Arlathan once stood and become the dominant power in the region. I like that they're complicated and that they can be both instigator and victim. I hope they keep that.

It isn't elven nature to dominate anything. If so the city elves would try for political power or the dalish would attack human villages. Not to mention that in the time of Arlathan they left humans alone even though they were kinda intruding elven country and building settlements.

Pretty much also hints that it was the Chantry ... or at least Templars ... who provoked the war which lead to the Exalted March. I personally want to see that the humans leave the elves alone now, that's what my GW was fighting for (he's dalish) so I hope alistair and anora live up to their promise.

I hope though that the elves or other heroes of Thedas discover Arlathan one day, or at least more about Arlathan and that the elves eventually return there or rebuild it.

[steelfire_dragon]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Don't crack a joke. Don't crack a joke. Don't...

Awww, hell. I can't not do it.

"When will the elves rise once again?" Probably after noon, the lazy bums!

[link removed]

you should not have

but you did


and you now have the post of shame.

ps, is that Count Strahd behind you??

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 30 septembre 2010 - 10:41 .

[LPPrince]

If I may make a suggestion to future posters in the thread, please don't quote Mary's post.

People who decide to click the link without reading anything might get the trojan that is behind the site.

Now then, back to elves AGAIN-

Rebuilding Arlathan.

That sounds like a good idea, of course if accomplished way off into the future. That's epilogue territory.

Modifié par LPPrince, 28 septembre 2010 - 11:15 .

[Chuvvy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

The elves can't rise simply because its hard for them to breed. I think the dwarves have a similar problem or something as well. Bioware seems to be fond of this method to keep otherwise awesome races from totally dominating their games. (*hints at Krogan domination of the galaxy)

Elves have no problem with breeding. Dwarves have a low fertility rate though.

It's cause they keep on dropping the rocks in the lava.

[LobselVith8]

tool_bot wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Koffeegirl wrote...

As for what happened with the Dalish I think its a combination of the Orlesian and Dalish version. I think templars came since the Dales wouldn't convert which then caused the Dales to retaliate and then produced the attack on Red Crossing .

This I've wondered. The Dalish claim that they sent templars, but not what they did. I took that as that the missionaries got an escort.

As for the blame, tensions had built up for a long time, and there was little required for it to snap.

But we also know Templars hunt apostates. The first sparks might have come from  Templar going after Dalish mages.

Does anyone know when the Chantry began that practice?

That practice was started along with the chantry. The Dales were given autonomy though, so mages there wouldn't be considered apostates in the same way that a dalish would at the time of origins. They would be more like how they see GW, out of their jurisdiction.

Well there goes that theory. 

Thanks.

The Dalish elves say that the war started because the elves of the Dales refused to convert; the Dalish codex mentions that after the missionaries were tossed, the Chantry sent in templars. The Chantry made it illegal for elves to worship their gods and took over the Dales, forcing elves to either be homeless or live in alienages. The Chantry never gave the Dalish autonomy. And the templars do hunt Dalish mages.

The Chantry and the templars were started by the Orlesian Emperor Kordillus Drakon I, who organized the Cult of Andraste into a formal religion and established the templars. When the Divine was elected three years later, the Divine Age began.

tool_bot wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

To bring it back to elves, I'd rather they stay in their slump for the Dragon Age. Makes them unique. If they ever DO get back to their prominence, let it be later on, in an epilogue or game that takes place after the Dragon Age ends.

I'm hoping the elves become something like the Jews of today, going thru centuries more of prejudice and hardship only to return to where Arlathan once stood and become the dominant power in the region. I like that they're complicated and that they can be both instigator and victim. I hope they keep that.

Elves remind me of the Native Americans; they existed across Thedas and now live in alienages while humans occupy land that used to belong to them, treated as second-class citizens. According to the codex entry Arlathan: Part Two, the city of Arlathan was destroyed by Tevinter blood magic.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[tool_bot]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish Warden Origin mentions that the war started because the Dalish refused to convert; I doubt the codex mentioning the templars coming in was an issue of peaceful conversion. The Chantry and the templars were started by the Orlesian Emperor Kordillus Drakon I, who organized the Cult of Andraste into a formal religion and established the templars. And the templars do hunt Dalish mages.

We know they hunt Dalish mages now in present day Thedas. Which is why I thought it might be that a Templar got a little over zealous and over stepped his boundaries. We don't know enough to say that's what happened though.

[LobselVith8]

tool_bot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish Warden Origin mentions that the war started because the Dalish refused to convert; I doubt the codex mentioning the templars coming in was an issue of peaceful conversion. The Chantry and the templars were started by the Orlesian Emperor Kordillus Drakon I, who organized the Cult of Andraste into a formal religion and established the templars. And the templars do hunt Dalish mages.

We know they hunt Dalish mages now in present day Thedas. Which is why I thought it might be that a Templar got a little over zealous and over stepped his boundaries. We don't know enough to say that's what happened though.

I tried to clean up that sentence a little while ago. Although it's doubtful anyone in present day Thedas really knows the start of the war, the Dalish made it clear in the Origin that (at least, from their POV) the war happened because they refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry. The storyteller Paivel says as much when he tells the children the fall of the Dales. Given the different codex given for the Dales for the other Wardens, it's clear that the events were told differently by the Orlesians.

[LPPrince]

Guess the game of telephone changed the story.

[David Gaider]

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Chantry and the templars were started by the Orlesian Emperor Kordillus Drakon I, who organized the Cult of Andraste into a formal religion and established the templars. When the Divine was elected three years later, the Divine Age began.

Just a note that the Chantry didn't create the templars, per se. They established the Templar Order, yes, but the templars existed as the Inquisition previous to that-- an army of the faithful that hunted down not only mages but also cultists of the Old Gods. It was a dark time during a period when many different cults of Andraste existed, and it wasn't until one of them was established as the "official" cult (ie. the Chantry) that the idea of the Circle of Magi began and a need was seen for an official body to police it.

Minor point, perhaps, but there you go.

I'm hoping the elves become something like the Jews of today, going thru centuries more of prejudice and hardship only to return to where Arlathan once stood and become the dominant power in the region. I like that they're complicated and that they can be both instigator and victim. I hope they keep that.

There's definitely a correlation between the Jewish faith and the elves-- the Dalish believing that one day they will regain a proper homeland for their people, and that then they can begin teaching their lost brethren all the lore they have been keeping for them. Many people (humans, primarily) would see that as a threat, probably, not to meniton the notion that any homeland for the elves would have to usurp land that the humans currently occupy and claim as their own (regardless of whom it belonged to originally).

But, then, there are parralels that can be drawn between the elves and just about any oppressed minority-- and that's what I like about them.

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

 It was a dark time during a period when many different cults of Andraste existed, and it wasn't until one of them was established as the "official" cult (ie. the Chantry) that the idea of the Circle of Magi began and a need was seen for an official body to police it.

I should replay that section but were the Haven Cultists another Andraste cult or Ex-Chantry that were converted into what they stand for now? I seem to remember the Guardian mention that Kolgrim's ancestor corrupted the faith into what it is now but I mean... were they part of the Chantry's sect of faith before the corruption?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 septembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[David Gaider]

Dave of Canada wrote...
I should replay that section but were the Haven Cultists another Andraste cult or Ex-Chantry that were converted into what they stand for now? I seem to remember the Guardian mention that Kolgrim's ancestor corrupted the faith into what it is now but I mean... were they part of the Chantry's sect of faith before the corruption?

That depends on how long they were around. The Chantry has been established for over 900 years, now, but that doesn't mean some of the other cults of Andraste still aren't kicking around. Chances are that in remote areas you'll have remnants of those old teachings and people obstensibly following Andrastian doctrine but in some very strange ways.

The better question would probably be: was the Guardian a believer in the Chantry's sect?

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

The better question would probably be: was the Guardian a believer in the Chantry's sect?

Touche, Mr. Gaider.

[DarthCaine]

They need to make the elves like in The Witcher, where they wanted to kill every human on sight. Now THAT was a dark fantasy setting

[Gabey5]

yes as soon as the south does

[Sir JK]

DarthCaine wrote...

They need to make the elves like in The Witcher, where they wanted to kill every human on sight. Now THAT was a dark fantasy setting

Did you pehaps miss the part of the Dalish origin where Tamlen (and/or yourself) is actually nurturing the idea of killing the humans you have at arrow-point? Right there at the beginning.

It's also mentioned in the codex entries that the Dalish sometimes actually choose to fight humans that go too close to them. And that the alienages usually are rather dangerous for humans...

Some elves are fighting, some elves choose not to fight and some elves choose to somtimes fight and sometimes not. Which I find a very realistic approach.

[Soulein]

Provided that the Dalish could organize a size-able army, the fact remains that they have to take on the most powerful country in Thedas. This is a challenge, but it also means that with victory comes respect and recognition.

We can break down the Dalish and Orlesian forces into their likely components:

Elves

Dalish Hunters/Warriors - Deadly archers and possibly effective heavy infantry. (Dar'Misaan's aren't just for show or skinning prey)
Alienage Volunteers - Little to no combat experience.
Dalish Keepers - Powerful mages, but few in number.

Orlesians

Chevaliers - Powerful and well equipped Knights, probably on horse back (Heavy Cav). The Chevaliers seem to be the standing military force of Orlais, as it is mentioned at Ostagar that "4 Legions" of them were en route.
Orlesian Infantry - An empire that big is bound to be able to assemble a large infantry force, probably through a levy. Most likely ill-equipped and untrained.

To sum it up: The Orlesians rely on what is most likely a powerful heavy cavalry force, supported by infantry. The Dalish are more suited to skirmishes, ambush, hit and run tactics. Could the Dalish catch the Chevaliers in a night attack or ambush, they might be able to cause a route or take the army altogether.

However, it is entirely likely that the Dalish will be forced into a set piece battle with the Orlesians at some point. In my mind, I see armoured Chevaliers riding down Dalish Archers in a picturesque slaughter, though things could end differently. Consider the Battle of Agincourt. An army of pampered and ill-disciplined French Knights catch up to an English army which is composed of mainly Longbowmen. The English and Welsh (dalish have welsh accents now ) were heavily outnumbered by the French, but were a cohesive and well led fighting force, whereas the French were squabbling amongst themselves. With proper use of the terrain, thousands of Alienage Elves holding pikes, and plenty of arrows, the Dalish could have their own Agincourt.

Modifié par Soulein, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[Darkbreed7]

I don't think regaining a homeland would bring them their might back... I mean, what would they do without their gods or other powerful (traditional) beliefs?

[Bw3268]

David, I can't help but notice to uncanny resemblence of the cults of Andraste and the early cult like beginnings of the christian faith. Early Christians were splintered and only followed single apostles and their books. It wasn't until Emporer Constantine declared an "official" Christianity that all the different beliefs of each christian cult began to be compiled into one religion. Is this where the inspiration came from?

[Alikain]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

It would be interesting if they ever could regain their past glory as it were.

I don't think they will ever regain their past glory but their will be free from human service

[Davasar]

You cant be an elf. So it doesnt matter.

[Alikain]

Davasar wrote...

You cant be an elf. So it doesnt matter.

Oh why ca't i be an elf