132 réponses à ce sujet

[stewie1974]

Like I said, not impossible, but unlikely... I doubt such a minor detail will have any serious impact in ME3 or even be mentioned, at least I hope not, as it would be the most contrived piece of literature since the matrix sequels ((yes I hate them))..

Anyhow you forget, the shadow broker stuff is set ((meant to be set )) after the suicide mission... at this point legion already has shepards trust and loyality, or he dosn't and likely died on the suicide mission, or was sold to cerberus.... incidently legion was my first casuality of the suicide mission..... so if he did have any big plans.....for my shep, or cerburus command tent ....  guess I beat him.

Which means... you missed a potential variable....((of not doing his loyality mission))  and the other potential variable of just not turning him on ever.

So that's more a 50/50 plan now than a win/win.

Modifié par stewie1974, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[Sajuro]

betd2 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you go Paragon all the way, you should have rewritten them.

point taken but I still stand that killing your enimies is more ethical then brainwashing them into good guys...

...wait, that doesn't sound right, well it made sense to me last night while I was drunk so it must be true!

Then again, Geth brains work differently from ours, so it is more like telling them your solution is right because Legion said they will leave a while to ponder it then come back to the rest of the geth

[PsyrenY]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

No, not better.  What do we know?

That he performed behavior that he either has no explanation for, or is lying about. Neither fits the behavior of "just a machine."

[stewie1974]

Well........ mass genocide /ethinic clensing.... or indoctrination/brainwashing .... tough call .... both are ethically bad choices. So as a "commander" you should make the miltary decision... again a tough call..

Do you gamble that they could be a strong ally with numbers to support you.
Or do you gamble that they might turn against you ((they already are but......)) and wipe them out to be safe.

At the end of the day its a miltary choice, as ethically both are as repugnant as each other.

Modifié par stewie1974, 24 septembre 2010 - 02:16 .

[Iakus]

I personally have little problem in rewriting the heretics, but I have a goofy theory about them.



(I voted "rewrite, I don't kill unless necessary" though that's not entirely accurate.)



Legion mentions an error in their programming causes them to worship the Reapers. This has me thinking that Sovereign was able to indoctrinate synthetics as well as organics. He may in fact have introduced a virus that created teh heretics to begin with. Thus rewriting the heretics is in effet "deprogramming" indoctrination. Odd thinking, I know, but it's how I justify it.



I have little reason to doubt Legion. He is clearly a skilled sniper who could have taken Shepard out at any time, yet actually chose to help. It could have been an elaborate setup, but geth don't seem to do "subtle" too well in my experience.



As for the geth/quarian debate. I didn't vote in that one, because both choices seem valid. The quarians did start the war, preemptively attempting to destroy the geth, and the geth fought back. Now, though, the geth are squatting on the quarian homeworld, making no attempt to negotiate or parlay (ships generally do not return from geth space) Why this is so I do not know, so I do not know if their reasons are justified. But there you go.

[Major Truth]

I firmly believe that if Shepard were still within the Alliance he would have been ordered to destroy the base

[HazelrahFiver]

wiggles89 wrote...
It would be a terrible plot twist because it wold make no sense.

That part where it helped offset Harbinger's goals is kind of an indication that it isn't lying.

All right, sorry.  Apparently I'm the only one who enjoys plot twists, surprises, or thinks that plans can be far more deep than what we are shown.  Perhaps all of this, ALL OF IT, the entirety of the story leading up to ME3, is to have Shepard succumb to indoctrination!?  Yes I know it's downright farfetched and I don't believe it myself, but it's fun to think about it and until we get to the credits of ME3 it is not eliminated as a possibility.  If Bioware truly has talented writers (and they do) then ANY plot twist is available to them.  Nearly everything can be explained appropriately if you are talented enough as a writer.

[HazelrahFiver]

Optimystic_X wrote...

HazelrahFiver wrote...

No, not better.  What do we know?

That he performed behavior that he either has no explanation for, or is lying about. Neither fits the behavior of "just a machine."

Or because they, the Geth, are calculatively tricking drawing Shepard in, tricking him for one reason or another.  Or because it was mere coincidence (unlikely since Legion wouldn't answer, but still.)  We don't know anything about the armor fragment, we really don't.  Legion pauses and replies, 'no data available.'  That does not denote anything emotional at all, especially since he is a machine.  Since they are machines.

[Major Truth]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...
It would be a terrible plot twist because it wold make no sense.

That part where it helped offset Harbinger's goals is kind of an indication that it isn't lying.

All right, sorry.  Apparently I'm the only one who enjoys plot twists, surprises, or thinks that plans can be far more deep than what we are shown.  Perhaps all of this, ALL OF IT, the entirety of the story leading up to ME3, is to have Shepard succumb to indoctrination!?  Yes I know it's downright farfetched and I don't believe it myself, but it's fun to think about it and until we get to the credits of ME3 it is not eliminated as a possibility.  If Bioware truly has talented writers (and they do) then ANY plot twist is available to them.  Nearly everything can be explained appropriately if you are talented enough as a writer.

Agree completely

[PsyrenY]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

Or because they, the Geth, are calculatively tricking drawing Shepard in, tricking him for one reason or another.

Being "tricky" is completely out of character for Legion. Evasive, sure, but outright lying? We have no reason to believe Legion is capable of that.

[Major Truth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

HazelrahFiver wrote...

Or because they, the Geth, are calculatively tricking drawing Shepard in, tricking him for one reason or another.

Being "tricky" is completely out of character for Legion. Evasive, sure, but outright lying? We have no reason to believe Legion is capable of that.

We have no reason to believe that he isn't. You can program a machine to lie

[Eldareus]

Didn't Legion mention that the Geth purposely manufactured up a false story to gage how organics would react and what actions they would take? So if this is true who is to say Legion isn't programmed for espionage, sabotage, and misdirection. I mean he is an Geth infiltrator after all.

[PsyrenY]

Major Truth wrote...

We have no reason to believe that he isn't.

Oh? How about:

* He could have seized the Normandy when EDI let him through the firewalls, or alerted the Collectors, etc.
* He risks his life to get Shepard into the Reaper Core (becoming incapacitated as a result.)
* He donates to the Eden Prime charity
* He leaves the fate of the heretics (and potentially, his entire people) in Shepard's hands.
* He risks his life yet again on the SM, just like every other squadmate, when he could have joined Harbinger and tried to capture Shepard.

So no, we have plenty of reasons to trust him. The burden of proof is on you to show why we should NOT trust him. (And no, "lol he's a robot!!!11!1" does not count.)

[Killjoy Cutter]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Turing_test

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:49 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Major Truth wrote...

We have no reason to believe that he isn't. You can program a machine to lie

Organics can lie without programming, Using your reasoning we have no reason to believe what anybody says in the Mass Effect universe .. which is valid form of interpretation i guess.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 24 septembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Eldareus wrote...

Didn't Legion mention that the Geth purposely manufactured up a false story to gage how organics would react and what actions they would take? So if this is true who is to say Legion isn't programmed for espionage, sabotage, and misdirection. I mean he is an Geth infiltrator after all.

"Geth do not infiltrate."

"...Geth do not intentionally infiltrate."

[Aedan_Cousland]

I voted...

Rewrite - Extra forces in the battle against the reapers

The Geth are victims, pushed to violence by the Quarians

There really is no reason not to trust Legion and the True Geth that he represents. If Shepard trusts Legion in game, Legion is presented with numerous oppurtunities where he could betray Shepard if he wished, and doesn't. He aids directly in the destruction or capture of the Collector Base, something that wouldn't be in his interest if he was an agent of the Reapers. He also saves Shepard's life on the derelict Reaper, something that also wouldn't be in the best interest of the Reapers if he is acting as their agent.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 24 septembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Legion is one of only four true bro's on the Normandy, the others I unconditionally trust being Garrus, Zaeed and Jacob.

[stewie1974]

Yeah if Legion is working with the reapers, then its a bit of a "stretch" for all of harbringers forces only to "pretend" they are trying to kill him , so that the single unit can get "close" to him and really try to kill him as successfully as the others...

So we are to assume by this convulated theory that everything that was shooting at you in the game was only pretending to shoot at shepard.... easy enough theory to test... holster your weapons and just stand in the open and see if you get a game over screen.... if you do, guess what... harbringer is REALLY trying to kill you..... and not just setting up a convuluted plot to enable legion to infiltrate.

Yes I am aware of "contingancy " plans should the "primary" plan work , such as having the IFF have a virus etc...that's called a contingancy....

However no contingancy plan is at the expense of the "primary" plan... i.e having legion help shepard out so he could escape... those two husks that had the jump on shep, might well of torn his head off...... 

Modifié par stewie1974, 24 septembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[Zan51]

HazelrahFiver wrote...
All right, sorry.  Apparently I'm the only one who enjoys plot twists, surprises, or thinks that plans can be far more deep than what we are shown.  Perhaps all of this, ALL OF IT, the entirety of the story leading up to ME3, is to have Shepard succumb to indoctrination!?  Yes I know it's downright farfetched and I don't believe it myself, but it's fun to think about it and until we get to the credits of ME3 it is not eliminated as a possibility.  If Bioware truly has talented writers (and they do) then ANY plot twist is available to them.  Nearly everything can be explained appropriately if you are talented enough as a writer.

Actually, as a writer, I disageree. Not everything can be convincingly explained away. Just saying, midiclorians... for one. That was a lame insert into the Star Wars universe! As lame as the whole rewriting to make Han Solo not shoot first in the cantina scene.

[Dean_the_Young]

Shandepared wrote...

I blew up the heretics because I was thinking about human interests. In the long run weakening the geth will make it easier for humanity to expand. I make it a policy not to roam around the galaxy strengthening foreign armies.

Shand Shand Shand.

I am disappointed in you.

Clearly Overlord was the means we were waiting for, in Humanity's opportunity to take control of the Geth at some future time after they have fought the Reapers. We are not simply strengthening foreign armies: we are strengthening armies that can one day be ours.

[HazelrahFiver]

Zan51 wrote...

HazelrahFiver wrote...
All right, sorry.  Apparently I'm the only one who enjoys plot twists, surprises, or thinks that plans can be far more deep than what we are shown.  Perhaps all of this, ALL OF IT, the entirety of the story leading up to ME3, is to have Shepard succumb to indoctrination!?  Yes I know it's downright farfetched and I don't believe it myself, but it's fun to think about it and until we get to the credits of ME3 it is not eliminated as a possibility.  If Bioware truly has talented writers (and they do) then ANY plot twist is available to them.  Nearly everything can be explained appropriately if you are talented enough as a writer.

Actually, as a writer, I disageree. Not everything can be convincingly explained away. Just saying, midiclorians... for one. That was a lame insert into the Star Wars universe! As lame as the whole rewriting to make Han Solo not shoot first in the cantina scene.

I distinctly used the word 'nearly'.  I also used the word 'appropriately', not 'convincingly'.

Modifié par HazelrahFiver, 25 septembre 2010 - 04:07 .

[ERJAK1]

Major Truth wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Other sources of emotion:
Legion is damaged on Eden Prime, but does not repair the hole until he finds Shepard's armor on Achera much later.
Legion bought the charity copy of the Eden Prime video game (the proceeds go towards rebuilding the colony.) He has yet to play it.

There could be completely logical reasons for both.

He's a robot

Your trying to cram an immensly complicated issue into black and white moralizing. To go back to your "space gypsy" thing. What if, as soon as you decided to admit you handled the situation wrong and stopped being aggressive, the invaders gave back the planet they never lived on anyway?

[PWENER]

The Geth are also keeping the Quarian homeworlds intact and beutiful (space mexicans) but not for them but for the Quarian's return. The Geth do not live in planets but on space stations.



I destroyed project overlord and rewrited the Geth heretics,



True Geth are honest, good and the most paragon race in ME. Yes, I consider them a race. They are a race. Ironic, this is coming from a guy who killd the council and kept the collector base...