Modifié par Talogrungi, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:33 .
Female Dwarf romance
Débuté par
ShadyKat
, sept. 23 2010 04:43
#126
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 04:31
Talogrungi
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It's not as though Dragon Age dwarves are particularly tiny.
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#127
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 05:54
Shepard Lives
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Like Occam said, I'd love to say I'm fine with a female dwarf romance... but I'd be lying.
I will be blunt: I find dwarven women ugly. I'm a sucker for short girls in real life, but dwarf chicks are
too stocky (also a little too short for my tastes but that's a minor issue). Not stocky as in "fat", but as in "their bones are too big".
Biggest problem, though, is their facial features. Their jawline, cheekbones, nose et al. make them look, how can I say it? graceless, and uncomely. They look like cavemen (cavewomen?). And when they do look pleasant, they look more like little girls than actual women (body shape aside, obviously).
The two examples of dwarven women that are brought up most frequently as paragons (no pun intended) of attractiveness are Dagna and Sigrun. I must say, Dagna was quite adorable, but definitely not LI material. Sigrun on the other hand was very likeable and maybe I'd have romanced her had she been an option. The only problem is that hers was the only personality that I can think of that might fit a dwarven woman, and since she's been already done, I doubt BW will ever give you guys a clone of her.
Of course there is the possibility for dwarven women to suddenly become attractive with the graphical overhaul that
occurs from DAO to DA2 , but I wouldn't bet on that.
Thus, I am saddened to declare that I do not, in fact, support a female dwarf LI for DA2. To me, it'd be a wasted romance and nothing more, and then I'd have to make do with pirate lady.
I will be blunt: I find dwarven women ugly. I'm a sucker for short girls in real life, but dwarf chicks are
too stocky (also a little too short for my tastes but that's a minor issue). Not stocky as in "fat", but as in "their bones are too big".
Biggest problem, though, is their facial features. Their jawline, cheekbones, nose et al. make them look, how can I say it? graceless, and uncomely. They look like cavemen (cavewomen?). And when they do look pleasant, they look more like little girls than actual women (body shape aside, obviously).
The two examples of dwarven women that are brought up most frequently as paragons (no pun intended) of attractiveness are Dagna and Sigrun. I must say, Dagna was quite adorable, but definitely not LI material. Sigrun on the other hand was very likeable and maybe I'd have romanced her had she been an option. The only problem is that hers was the only personality that I can think of that might fit a dwarven woman, and since she's been already done, I doubt BW will ever give you guys a clone of her.
Of course there is the possibility for dwarven women to suddenly become attractive with the graphical overhaul that
occurs from DAO to DA2 , but I wouldn't bet on that.
Thus, I am saddened to declare that I do not, in fact, support a female dwarf LI for DA2. To me, it'd be a wasted romance and nothing more, and then I'd have to make do with pirate lady.
#128
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Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:01
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yukidama wrote...
So... where exactly was the controversy when you, as a female dwarf Warden, romanced a human character? I didn't see the media sh*tstorm over that. The only mention I saw was like, on a late night show where they were like "lolz gay sex" Nothing about pedophilia or sexualizing children... BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE SAME. JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL.
It's a little different when the dwarf is a PC, I think. Because then it's not you sexing up the unusually short person, it's you being the unusually short person. The PC being somewhat an extension of the player him/herself makes the race of the PC less relevant. And I'm not saying it will cause controversy, only that it has the potential. And I'm not saying it's the same, only that it could be seen that way, and could continue to be seen that way, despite reason.
And again, I've never said this means they shouldn't include it, if they feel it fits. Although, if Gaider talked about how they may have to consider what kind of romance option would appeal to the largest portion of players in his defense of possibly not including a gay romance option, one might think this could also be used as an argument regarding a dwarven LI. Particularly if there are less romance options in DA2 than in DAO, given its shorter length (although ME2 had a lot more romances, as I understand it, so I suppose it's anyone's guess).
#129
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:07
Anonymouswizard
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I'd like to see a female dwarf as a romance option. Though I do not find the dwarf females in DAO that attractive, it's more due to the long arms than anything else. The one thing I do ask is for them to sort out the dwarf kisses, your LI will suddenly sink into the floor when you kiss them. So all for dwarf LIs (of either gender) in DA2.
Also dwarves are taller then they normally are, unless they are going for more medieval humans (humans have gained height during the centuries), about a head shorter as opposed to four/four and a half feet tall.
Also dwarves are taller then they normally are, unless they are going for more medieval humans (humans have gained height during the centuries), about a head shorter as opposed to four/four and a half feet tall.
#130
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:20
Russalka
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shepard_lives wrote...
Thus, I am saddened to declare that I do not, in fact, support a female dwarf LI for DA2. To me, it'd be a wasted romance and nothing more, and then I'd have to make do with pirate lady.
It is only about eye-candy then?
#131
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:43
SirOccam
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I can't speak for shepard_lives, but for me it's not. In fact I think female Dwarves are (or can be, at least) exceptionally pretty. it's just the idea that weirds me out.Russalka wrote...
shepard_lives wrote...
Thus, I am saddened to declare that I do not, in fact, support a female dwarf LI for DA2. To me, it'd be a wasted romance and nothing more, and then I'd have to make do with pirate lady.
It is only about eye-candy then?
#132
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:44
Russalka
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But a dwarf romance would be optional, like all romances.
#133
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:50
SirOccam
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Indeed. I never claimed to be anything but irrational on this subject.Russalka wrote...
But a dwarf romance would be optional, like all romances.
But again, I'm not actively against including one, but at the same time I don't support it, per se. I would rather they use that time and effort to make another elf or human romance option. That is selfish, but everyone wants things that they will personally enjoy. If they do put one in, I simply won't do it, and I'll continue to be vigilant when watching YouTube clips so I don't have to see it.
So while I wouldn't sign a petition to include a Dwarf LI, I wouldn't sign one to keep one out either.
#134
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:53
mellifera
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So it's okay when you do it, but when it comes to others it isn't? No one is saying that if they include it you HAVE to romance a dwarf, but it is nice to have the option for those who aren't against it.
#135
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:54
Lord_Valandil
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SirOccam wrote...
Indeed. I never claimed to be anything but irrational on this subject.Russalka wrote...
But a dwarf romance would be optional, like all romances.
But again, I'm not actively against including one, but at the same time I don't support it, per se. I would rather they use that time and effort to make another elf or human romance option. That is selfish, but everyone wants things that they will personally enjoy. If they do put one in, I simply won't do it, and I'll continue to be vigilant when watching YouTube clips so I don't have to see it.
So while I wouldn't sign a petition to include a Dwarf LI, I wouldn't sign one to keep one out either.
This. I agree with you. I'd rather have an elven romance, but I'm not against dwarven romance.
#136
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:01
Shepard Lives
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Russalka wrote...
shepard_lives wrote...
Thus, I am saddened to declare that I do not, in fact, support a female dwarf LI for DA2. To me, it'd be a wasted romance and nothing more, and then I'd have to make do with pirate lady.
It is only about eye-candy then?
When you say it like that, it makes me sound like a horribly shallow person.
How about this?
I find the gap between the appearance of dwarven women and my own ideal of feminine beauty too wide to be fully compensated by personality.
Much better, right?
I have to admit that yes, the reason is mostly aesthetical (the "Sigrun problem" I wrote about in my previous post counts too). But can I really be blamed for it? Physical attractiveness is an important part of a relationship, that's a fact for 99% of people. Not the most important part, I think, but it definitely plays a big role.
Imagine this: let's say you, from a physical standpoint, can't stand... let's say elves. You find elves repulsive. Not just vaguely ugly. They clash with your concept of beauty.
And one day BW announces that DA2 will have an elf romance. At this point, I think, you'd feel let down- because you know you won't be able to fully appreciate the romance, no matter how well-written or likeable the character is.
So that is how I'd feel if a female dwarf romance were to be in DA2.
But, I'd also be happy for the guys (and girls, maybe) who got the dwarf lovin' they wanted.
Cheers!
EDIT: Occam says it best. Aside from the fact that maybe I for one would sign a petition to keep a dwarf LI out.
SirOccam wrote...
I'm not actively against including one, but at the same time I don't support it, per se. I would rather they use that time and effort to make another elf or human romance option. That is selfish, but everyone wants things that they will personally enjoy. If they do put one in, I simply won't do it, and I'll continue to be vigilant when watching YouTube clips so I don't have to see it.
Modifié par shepard_lives, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:05 .
#137
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:09
Calla S
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I just wanted to say that I'm so glad someone posted this song.Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...
First off this.
I posted it in the Varric thread ages ago. It's such a wonderful message, and I lovelovelove it.Have I told you that I love you? Is that creepy? Should I give you some space? Hahah.soignee wrote...
*boring anecdata at how I've dated men a foot/30cm taller then me here*
*rambling discussion here about body types and the body ideal and how it is possible for even in a computer game to exploit this*
[.img] sexidwarfhere [./img]
Modifié par Calla S, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:10 .
#138
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:18
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yukidama wrote...
So it's okay when you do it, but when it comes to others it isn't?
If anything, it's the opposite way around, but I wouldn't break it down into such terms as "okay" and "not okay." But when another character does it (with your dwarf character), since they're not an agent of the player, it's not the same thing as when your character is doing it with a dwarf. There's a shade of separation, I think, between the level of scrutiny a game will get for the player character committing X action compared to an NPC committing X action, particularly if one is inclined to consider it perverse.
(apologies if this comment wasn't directed at me, it seemed like it was)
#139
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:20
SirOccam
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yukidama wrote...
So it's okay when you do it, but when it comes to others it isn't? No one is saying that if they include it you HAVE to romance a dwarf, but it is nice to have the option for those who aren't against it.
(If this wasn't directed at me, then ignore the following. I thought it was because mine was the post directly above, but after reading the exchange between you and filaminstrel, I think it was probably meant for him.)
It's okay when I do what? Not be in support of something? Of course it's okay when I do it, and it's okay when others do it too. If it's based on something irrational, I hope they'd admit it, as I did. But regardless of my reasoning, I still have the right to make up my own mind on whether I support something or not.
I already acknowledged that I wouldn't have to do it, and indeed I won't if they put one in. I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. I already said I'm not actively against it, just that it doesn't have my support.
One need not be in favor of EVERY request on the forums, even if it's for something optional. I'm not saying NO (as though my word carried any weight anyway), I'm just saying I don't like it. So good luck to the people who want it, but I am not on board. That's all I'm saying.
Modifié par SirOccam, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:24 .
#140
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:26
Calla S
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I think - and this is just me - Yuki was commenting on the "difference" between romancing a human as a dwarf in DA:O as opposed to the possibility of romancing a dwarf as a human in DA2.
Which, really, I do not see the difference. It's still a conscious choice by the player. Romancing a dwarf would be the same.
Which, really, I do not see the difference. It's still a conscious choice by the player. Romancing a dwarf would be the same.
#141
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:27
packardbell
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Female dwarf/elf romances please!
#142
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:27
mellifera
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To clarify, I meant "So it's okay when you, playing a dwarf character, romance a human, but when you play as a human it is suddenly wrong to romance a dwarf?"
It had nothing to do with any post of yours, SirOccam. People are free to dislike something, it's just annoying when something like a consenting short adult romancing a consenting taller adult is equated with perversion and pedophilia (which is something extremely serious and shouldn't be joked about just because people find a romance weird).
It had nothing to do with any post of yours, SirOccam. People are free to dislike something, it's just annoying when something like a consenting short adult romancing a consenting taller adult is equated with perversion and pedophilia (which is something extremely serious and shouldn't be joked about just because people find a romance weird).
Modifié par yukidama, 24 septembre 2010 - 07:30 .
#143
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:28
lv12medic
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I have no problem with male or female Dwarven LI's in Dragon Age. It is much more feasable since the Dwarves in Dragon Age aren't the usual "Whats a female dwarf? Does she have a Beard? Do you just pop out of the stone?" sterotype. Also, in fantasy Dwarves tend to get the short end of the stick (seriously no pun intended). Humans and Elves and everything else remotely humanoid get to have relationships while the Dwarves end up with nothing too many times.
#144
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 08:06
ShadyKat
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filaminstrel wrote...
I would note that I'm not speaking of it being inherently wrong in any way, I'm just speaking of its potential for controversy. Some things are just more 'flammable' than others, if you will. Sex with unusually short people could attract fire on the fronts of unusual fetishes and pedophilia. You're putting on blinders if you don't see this. If you do see this, then you're arguing with an assertion I never made.
The devs in the first podcast said that dwarf females would be buxom and by far the most curvey of the females in DA2. So how is a woman that is 4'6 but has triple D cup size breast child like? Wouldn't the much slimmer elves(that are short in their own right) be more built like children?
#145
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Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 08:34
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@soignee: wait, you can't post any Missa-butt pictures?? I thought the guidelines didn't automatically restrict drawn, tasteful nudity... for same. At least you should link to some entries on DeviantArt or something. Please don't deprive us :'(
shepard_lives: Thank you for posting your honest opinion here without trolling. It is appreciated to not be directly attacked for our preferences. However given you admitted you'd sign a petition to bar a dwarf female LI, you may be accused of trolling. I guess its the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" thing. And about your statistic about 99% of attraction being physical... you are right. The thing you, and the actual trolls aren't seeing, is that those who want dwarf females or males as love interests ARE attracted to dwarf physique. For me its the curves. Elves are just WAY too skinny for me, even if I'm romancing characters as an elf. I wouldn't romance an elf as a PC in any other game. On the same concourse, I recognize that some are attracted to Elven skinny physique. For that I do not blame them and would support their cause to have another elven LI
My final point (and I'm sorry if I offend other's choices with my statement)-
REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES
I don't want skin-and-bones for my women LIs. I want women who have meat on 'em.
Oh, and because this is supposed to be a decent discussion, I love the overall personality of Dwarves. Fun, aggressive, and tough
, and thats both men and women
shepard_lives: Thank you for posting your honest opinion here without trolling. It is appreciated to not be directly attacked for our preferences. However given you admitted you'd sign a petition to bar a dwarf female LI, you may be accused of trolling. I guess its the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" thing. And about your statistic about 99% of attraction being physical... you are right. The thing you, and the actual trolls aren't seeing, is that those who want dwarf females or males as love interests ARE attracted to dwarf physique. For me its the curves. Elves are just WAY too skinny for me, even if I'm romancing characters as an elf. I wouldn't romance an elf as a PC in any other game. On the same concourse, I recognize that some are attracted to Elven skinny physique. For that I do not blame them and would support their cause to have another elven LI
My final point (and I'm sorry if I offend other's choices with my statement)-
REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES
I don't want skin-and-bones for my women LIs. I want women who have meat on 'em.
Oh, and because this is supposed to be a decent discussion, I love the overall personality of Dwarves. Fun, aggressive, and tough
, and thats both men and women
#146
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Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 08:38
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ShadyKat wrote...
filaminstrel wrote...
I would note that I'm not speaking of it being inherently wrong in any way, I'm just speaking of its potential for controversy. Some things are just more 'flammable' than others, if you will. Sex with unusually short people could attract fire on the fronts of unusual fetishes and pedophilia. You're putting on blinders if you don't see this. If you do see this, then you're arguing with an assertion I never made.
The devs in the first podcast said that dwarf females would be buxom and by far the most curvey of the females in DA2. So how is a woman that is 4'6 but has triple D cup size breast child like? Wouldn't the much slimmer elves(that are short in their own right) be more built like children?
I have to agree with you here, ShadyKat, that based on DA2 schematics, Dwarves are definitely not child-like in appearance. I'm not sure about child-like in regards to elven physique, but seriously, elves look WAY too skinny for me now... they kinda did in DAO, too, so ehh, not the biggest fan of elf romance anymore. I hope proportions are fixed after DA2
#147
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 09:00
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ShadyKat wrote...
The devs in the first podcast said that dwarf females would be buxom and by far the most curvey of the females in DA2. So how is a woman that is 4'6 but has triple D cup size breast child like? Wouldn't the much slimmer elves(that are short in their own right) be more built like children?
*sigh* I never said I thought they looked childlike. But inasmuch as I am playing devil's advocate on the matter: regarding DA2, I have no idea what they'll look like, but they're already about as buxom as they should be in DAO. If they got any more extreme (particularly the hips) it might start to look a little comical, as is so often mentioned regarding Bethany. But still, when looking at an image like this:
If I look at it the right way, yeah, I can see how someone might think "child" looking at that comparison. Are you really saying you can't see that?
Whereas with an elf:
I dunno, I suppose one could say she looks adolescent. I'm not really seeing it as much as with the dwarf. But yeah, maybe some people would say it about an elf romance too... compared to a human romance. That's the base we're comparing it to, here, not an elf romance.
Again, I don't think either of them look like that inherently, but I'm speaking in terms of their propensity to be construed as such.
Modifié par filaminstrel, 24 septembre 2010 - 09:10 .
#148
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 09:08
Calla S
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Dear god. The dwarf is at least a few inches shorter than the elf. How dare we be interested in romancing such a person. Clearly we are monstrosities.
Yeah, people look up at me like that all the time, but I don't go around thinking I'm so high and mighty that everyone who has to tilt their chin up to look at me are children or childlike or anything of that sort. Yeah, no. Argument = invalid.
Yeah, people look up at me like that all the time, but I don't go around thinking I'm so high and mighty that everyone who has to tilt their chin up to look at me are children or childlike or anything of that sort. Yeah, no. Argument = invalid.
#149
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 09:13
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lol, well when you misconstrue it as much as you did, I suppose you can invalidate any argument on those grounds. I have been nothing if not reasonable this whole time, and frankly I'm getting a little tired of this debate if it's going to come down to that.
#150
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 09:16
Calla S
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Wait, you mean, besides the fact that I was being general, considering that is what this "debate" has come to as a whole? Ah, I gotcha.
