50 réponses à ce sujet

[ezrafetch]

Yrkoon wrote...

Yes.  You can ignore all the other benefits of a rogue and this would STILL make them worth while.

In fact, I just started a new Playthrough with a strength-build rogue 2-hander.  That's right, a 2-hander.  For no reason but to see how destructive he'll be later on when he's Backstabbing mobs with his Chasind Great maul and his 90+ strength.

  So are you going to run WC+Cailan's then, I'm assuming, if you're going to go ahead and max out strength?  I wonder if you could get 350 backstab damage in Origins with that setup.  With MoD + Tainted Blade + Pinpoint Striking debuff + SoC + Flaming Weapons + Frost Weapons + Hex debuffs with the CGM and various +critical damage gear, it seems rather plausible.

[Elhanan]

I believe a couple of other players have posted such builds, though I have yet to try it myself. By the time that game would end, my addiction to Haste spell would cause withdrawl issues.....

[Raze48]

Why have a Rogue? Just finished my Origins/Awakening/WH playthrough, finished @ level 33 and was rocking 193 Defense. Basically from the end of Origins and on I was tanking everything solo and sometimes brought Sigrun along for fun. Wasn't an offensive slouch either, I think my highest hit was somewhere around 3000, maybe a tad under. God bless Heart Seeker. lol



So there, THAT'S why you bring a Rogue. (or play one)

[The Almighty Ali]

They provide the quick ways on taking down foes while you're warrior has them focusing on him, a rogue that backstabs his/her foes is deadly.

And they are essentially if you want to find goodies in chests or behind locked doors, provided their lockpicking is top notch.

[Jade5233]

Don't forget about stealing people blind while they aren't looking. Rogues add to your cash with pickpocketing.

[lancelots]

I always go through without a rogue then come back on a second run with the rogue to unlock chests and still hidden traps My normal party is two duel weapon warriors and two mages I normally have to limit the mages attacks and many times disable their tactics just so I get enough kills for me but if I do travel with my rogue she's always a good archer which is handy for ranged fights

[Jon Jern_]

Duelist/Assassin for DW Rogues, Ranger/Bard for Archer Rogues. Hope I'm not the only guy who uses that

[Elhanan]

Jon Jern wrote...

Duelist/Assassin for DW Rogues, Ranger/Bard for Archer Rogues. Hope I'm not the only guy who uses that

Duelist/ Assassin for all but one Rogue. I have one Bard, but he is lagging behind in play time, and have not used ranger at all.

[miltos33]

I like Bard/Assassin and then Shadow for a dual wielding Rogue.

[termokanden]

Duelist is a good specialization, but there is a problem with it. A dex based rogue won't need the extra attack and defense, and so it seems a bit of a waste to even run Dueling. A cunning based rogue will get a good bonus out of it, but it keeps them from using either Assassin or Bard.



I find Bard a lot better than Duelist, regardles of how nice Dueling is.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

Duelist is a good specialization, but there is a problem with it. A dex based rogue won't need the extra attack and defense, and so it seems a bit of a waste to even run Dueling. A cunning based rogue will get a good bonus out of it, but it keeps them from using either Assassin or Bard.

I find Bard a lot better than Duelist, regardles of how nice Dueling is.

But Bard seems to require high Cunning to work effevtively, only allows one song at a time, and the 4th tier song freezes the Bard in place; not my thing. I am trying to run a Bard currently, but it is not my fave design.

Assassin has some good passive abilities on their face, but they are not effective in play, IMO; hence my reason for skipping the actual talents.

[termokanden]

First of all, I said that Bard is better than Duelist if you have high cunning. Second, it's actually OK even without any scaling from cunning at all!

It gives a base bonus of +3 attack, +2 damage and +3% crit. This is not great compared to Dueling, but it works for the whole party. Now my DW dex based rogue had 22 base cunning after the Fade. With gear this becomes 33 (34 maybe, I forgot) cunning. So that's +5 attack,+3 damage, and +5% crit chance, for a character that doesn't even focus on cunning! I'll take that any day on a dex rogue over +10 attack and +10 defense (and a +1 damage passive). My dex rogue simply doesn't need more attack or defense anyway!

Now for a cunning-based character, Bard is just so superior it's not even funny. By the way, Song of Courage stacks (just not on the last rogue to use it). How awesome is that for a heavy melee party?

I think Duelist is still a good specialization, but perhaps it makes the most sense for a strength based rogue as their defense can be a little low and they don't get the full benefit from Song of Courage. Or it could give you a needed boost to defense if you just like be a rogue in heavy armor.

As for Assassin, it's great for most rogues. Mark of Death is a 20% damage bonus for the whole party against one enemy. That's pretty good already! Exploit Weakness is best for a cunning based rogue, but even for my dex-based rogue it translates into 3 extra damage per backstab. Worth taking I think.

Feast of the Fallen gives you back some stamina, but it's just not very much, and it HAS to be a backstab. I'm not a big fan of that ability.

Modifié par termokanden, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:28 .

[DWSmiley]

For any dw rogue build, it's assassin/duelist for me.  The discussion here makes a convincing case.  At the point where attack and defense are as high as useful, one can start putting points in cunning instead, for the assassin and armor penetration benefits.

 http://social.biowar...6/index/4366933

Modifié par DWSmiley, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:49 .

[termokanden]

And what about the points I made above? I find a party-wide boost to damage, crit AND attack more useful.

I don't see how Dueling is ever going to beat even the base bonus from Song of Courage for DPS. And that's for ONE character. Song of Courage works for the whole party.

Looking at some of the points in that thread, I'm still not convinced. If anything it convinces me that Ranger is probably best for DPS, considering how ranger pets deal a bit of damage. I personally find the pets a little bit annoying though.

Modifié par termokanden, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Jon Jern_]

Dueling + Song of Courage from Leliana is what I did on my DW Rogue.

[miltos33]

In my opinion SoC is more powerful than Dueling. My current character is halfway through the game at level 17 and even though cunning is my secondary attribute the bonus is +7 attack, +4 damage, +7% critical chance for me and Alistair.



As soon as I start Awakening and I can reach 100% dodge with the Voice of Velvet and 3 Evasion Runes I can reallocate my points and split them equally between dexterity and cunning so I can imagine SoC becoming extremely powerful.



Besides, there are many items and party wide buffs that give attack and defense while the ones that give damage and critical chance are pretty rare. For example, Alistair is a good Champion by default and it is always a good idea to have a Mage in the party with Miasma on.

[H1natachan]

imo i always found rogues quite easy to play and once you put points in the master summon in ranger ( someone will correct me if i stated wrong tree ;p ) a great bear can be summoned ( it hits very hard hehe ) and used as a effective tank i never leave home with my great bear lol.

[Elhanan]

Duelist vs Bard may be up to the indv build.

Duelist offers +2 DEX; +1 Dmg which helps my DEX heavy designs, while Bard offers +2 Will; +1 Cunning which aid Cunning builds such as Bard.

Bard offers the talents at lower lvls, so a Rogue may gain them faster in the build. But SoC may be the one effective talent in the entire tier; uncertain of the rest. Duelist offers three decent talents, though the final one has a lengthy cooldown period.

For my DEX & STR builds, the Duelist is more useful. But a Cunning build may be more effective by Bard support.

[Sabariel]

Stealth + Backstab



That is the meaning of their existence

[Elhanan]

Sabariel wrote...

Stealth + Backstab

That is the meaning of their existence

I disagree just a little. Stealth is like frosting on a cake; is not required to be on the cake, but it is, Oh! So much better when it is included.

My first couple of Rogues did not bother with Stealth at all, and I was doing fine. But when I finally decided to give it a whirl, watching opposing enemies cease all violent activity and returning to standard posistions became a thing of beauty, clearing trap filled rooms occupied with the enemy became more suspencful, and sneaking into battle positions became so much more fun that I have yet to skip it again.

[Sabariel]

Yeah well, I like stealthying up behind a mage and backstabbitying them to death before they can set my entire party on fire so stealth is more like the flour in my cake.



(I am aware of the spelling atrocities in this post. They are intentional. Avert your eyes if it hurts.)

[Elhanan]

My spelling errors are accidents; no spell check or dictionary readily available. And I agree that removing mages before they can cast is fun to watch.

[miltos33]

Sabariel wrote...

Stealth + Backstab

That is the meaning of their existence

This is exactly the reason why I like the Bard/Assassin/Shadow combo. It encourages stealthy gameplay and  maximizes backstab damage.

[termokanden]

One thing I HATE about rogues is how you go and backstab someone and JUST before they die, they turn around so you don't get stamina back from Feast of the Fallen.



So far I didn't actually run out of stamina, but it's just the principle of the thing. It's so annoying.



Anyway, I'm personally a big fan of the Legion specialization, because it gives you 10 free points in strength that you can now spend on cunning or dex instead. But that's not all it does. It also gives you an ability that turns you immune to all damage for a while. It's pretty insane.



I made my archer a Legion/Shadow/Bard just for fun. Totally unkillable, 2 forms of stealth, the invulnerability skill AND Decoy. Wouldn't recommend it though, that kind of defense is just not needed