36 réponses à ce sujet

[Zenjamin]

How can you justify taking sten with your party from an RP perspective.
he is standing there in the cage, you learn that he has aparently slaughtered three families for no reason. When confronted with this, he seems to confirm what is said with his conversation about guilt.

Why would you accept someone into your group with this important mission when you have no reason to expect that he would not try to slaughter you and your whole group for no reason other then bloodlust?

Why would your character trust him?



PS:
If you do accept him in your group, do you learn why he killed those families? Do you learn him to be a good man in the end?

[Spartansfan8888]

All of the characters may be more than meets the eye if you take the time to get to know them. I don't want to spoil anything because I don't know how far you are into the game. As for justifying taking him along I guess it would be up to you/your warden if a strong warrior companion is worth trusting a known murderer whose culture you don't understand.

[Benzboysl500]

In a world that was turned against you by a lie you need allies where you can find them. Do you trust your skills to handle what ever will come your way?

[DWSmiley]

Yes, he admits he panicked and he obviously regrets it as he waited days for the templars to show up and arrest him.

[Elhanan]

As the Warden may also come from a background which includes accusations of murder and other crimes (ie; both Dwarven Origins, City Elf), it is not too difficult to fathom that the current environment is somewhat more chaotic than the norm. Knowing that the Blight is headed towards Lothering, a caged prisoner weakened by fasting would likely be killed by the Darkspawn.

But I agree that from certain RP perspectives, releasing the Quanari is not meant as an easy call. My Human Noble Wardens often fail to show mercy to Sten, based mostly on the idea that he killed families and children,. The difference between Sten and some other murderers in the game is that Sten is aware of this horrific fact, and also judged himself worthy of death; the main reason he chooses to go with the Warden.

[TJPags]

Well, it's a question of whether you believe in second chances or not, I suppose. Also, whether you agree with his punishment.



Yes, he killed a family, and he admits it. But when you talk to him while he's in the cage, or anyone else in Lothering, you never learn why. That question - "why?" - bothers some people. Bothered me. Most depraved killers don't stand there waiting to be arrested, then go quietly. People who do that, well, there's a reason.



I also consider the punishment - stuck in a cage to, basically, starve to death. Kind of harsh, IMO. Plus, again, he's not being guarded, and that cage doesn't look too sturdy - something tells me he could be out if he wanted to, yet there he stays.



All these questions add up, in my mind, to "I want to know more". And I figure I can always kill him later.



And yes, you do get answers from him about what happened, and why. At that point, it's up to you, obviously, to accept them, or not.

[Ferretinabun]

It's easy with the Dwarven Noble origin since his plight might very well almost exactly match the one you found yourself in just before you left Orzammar.

Morrigan also provides another reason - mercy. He'll starve/be caged prey for the darkspawn if left alone, and it would be irresponsible to just release him and leave him to fend for himself.

Also, the point that he has come to terms with the fact that he deserves his incarceration, and even execution, tells me he repents his crimes.

And if you do accept him, then yes you do learn why he did it, though whether you could say he turns out to be a good man in the end is debatable. He made a terrible mistake which he recognised and regretted almost instantly.

[antonymagnus]

I am glad Sten was brought up here and totally agree with Zenjamin.



On my first playthrough I negotiated his release into my Wardens custody but was I ever sorry I did afterwards.. (SPOILER) Whilst I was going through the motions of securing armies to battle the Blight Sten would ambush my Warden at camp complaining about my Warden not taking the fight to the Darkspawn quickly enough. What a moron Sten is, doesn't he realize that you need more than just a small band of people to fight this? Anyway on all subsequent playthroughs I left him in his cage so he could fight the Blight just as quickly as he seems to desire to. What a moronic character Sten is, he'll never fight amongst my merry band again. Giant Quinari can pay for his crimes over and over as far as I am concerned, and face the Darkspawn alone. I feel no guilt or remorse leaving him to his fate.



Just the 2 cents here

[Zenjamin]

I had planned on going back to camp and telling Sten he could join my group, but still as a prisoner. His crimes, if he turned out to be guilty, would not remain unpunished.



But. Since he seemed to live by a warriors honor, he could earn an honourable death with me if he followed my lead. Then I would reason that after that, I coudl use him in a suicide run against the darkspawn, a distraction. Give his death honor and meaning and fight.



But, I could not revisit that Town after the circle tower. Looks like he was eaten.



Oh well. After what Antonymous wrote, it looks like he would not have deserved that death anyways.

[Well]

Zenjamin wrote...

How can you justify taking sten with your party from an RP perspective.
he is standing there in the cage, you learn that he has aparently slaughtered three families for no reason. When confronted with this, he seems to confirm what is said with his conversation about guilt.

Why would you accept someone into your group with this important mission when you have no reason to expect that he would not try to slaughter you and your whole group for no reason other then bloodlust?

Why would your character trust him?



PS:
If you do accept him in your group, do you learn why he killed those families? Do you learn him to be a good man in the end?

I only choose him once and delete the game.I just couldnt put up with the idea of having a child killer in my party.Not even in a game.

[Elhanan]

It is a horrendous crime, and Sten agrees. This is why he is willing to be captured and placed in that cage, as he believes death is a just sentence.

But the Blight is upon the land, and if it speads, all of Ferelden may fall. As the Warden, you have the right to release him and help him atone for his past crimes while allowing him the chance to die in combat rather than starve in that cage.

This game is full of difficult choices, and there are varied ways to play them all.

[ezrafetch]

To me, it's quite simple: don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Don't want it? Don't take it. But help is help, and it's a Blight, so it's perfectly legitimate to take the help when it's offered.

[Zenjamin]

ezrafetch wrote...

To me, it's quite simple: don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Don't want it? Don't take it. But help is help, and it's a Blight, so it's perfectly legitimate to take the help when it's offered.

There are good reasons to take him. This is not one of them.

You know what else could help kill darkspawn? an elephant.
but I wouldnt take one into my group, because I dont know this elephant. I have no way of knowing it wont turn on me and charge in a rage. I have no way of knowing it wont do something stupid and endanger me more then it helps. I have no way of knowing it wont attract way too much of attention, and the wrong kind of it.

You have no way of knowing Sten would help yoru mission more then he would hurt it. And if he questions your authority for stupid reasons, then he is as helpful to my teem as that untrained elephant would be.

[Cariborne]

I almost always take Sten. Why? He has combat experience, he's a powerful warrior who is quite capable of holding his own, also a great leader. Sure, he was angry and killed all those people in a rage, but people aren't perfect, and he regrets it and was all set to take the punishment for it. Until you came and offered him a way to repent for his crimes by protecting the land from the Blight.



Sure, he questions your motives, but you have to remember he's a foreigner he does things differently then you. You promised him a glorious battle against the Darkspawn, and then ran off to help a sick old man and walk through some old dwarven caves. Doesn't really sound like a glorious battle against Darkspawn, now does it? So why wouldn't he question it? You tell him one thing, and then lead him elsewhere.



In the end though, he comes to respect you, learns more about your culture, and becomes in my opinion, one of your most trusted allies.

[Elhanan]

Zenjamin wrote...

There are good reasons to take him. This is not one of them.

You know what else could help kill darkspawn? an elephant.
but I wouldnt take one into my group, because I dont know this elephant. I have no way of knowing it wont turn on me and charge in a rage. I have no way of knowing it wont do something stupid and endanger me more then it helps. I have no way of knowing it wont attract way too much of attention, and the wrong kind of it.

You have no way of knowing Sten would help yoru mission more then he would hurt it. And if he questions your authority for stupid reasons, then he is as helpful to my teem as that untrained elephant would be.

Except in this case, I have a walkthrough on this elephant, as well as an existing Wiki full of helpful tips.

Questions: Is it possible to open the cage, but not take Sten along for the trek? If you send him away at camp, are we informed how he seeks atonement?

[Zenjamin]

Except in this case, I have a walkthrough on this elephant, as well as an existing Wiki full of helpful tips. 

And when it comes down to it, that is the only reason to take him. hindsight.


Let me pose a sinario for you.
You are a sargent in Afghanstan. You and your team have to find bin laden who has a nuke and is about to fly it west.

To stop him you must embark on a mission both martial and diplomatic. 
You are on your way to see a political or religious leader to gain aid. On your way, your come to a village and wander into its prision. There you see a 7 foot tall guy covered in tats and battle scars. The villegers are disgusted by his actions. He aparently slaughered a whole family, wemen and children.

When you ask this guy about this, his response is basically, "ya. I did it. I feel guilty. thats why im here.". When you ask him why he did it, he responds "None of your f***ing buisness, thats why." Now are you going to let me go so I can come with you on your super important mission to save the world? I mean..... look at how big I am. And I feel really bad about stuff. Honest..... not that I will show any emotion to you or anything."

Now, how do you respond to that?
Do you say." Sure. Why not, Cant look a gift horse in the mouth. Welcome abord!"

I call BS.

Such a decision would be stupid on both a moral level and a pratical one.

Modifié par Zenjamin, 27 septembre 2010 - 07:39 .

[Elhanan]

Except the warrior in question never says he feels guilty. Instead he responds with a question on whether he is guilty, or does he feel guilty of the deed. At no time does this warrior ever absolve himself of the guilt, and in fact may make question that do we never have regret.

Your choices are your own; not less or more valid then mine. Some of my Wardens cannot see past the blood on his hands, and leave him for the justice imposed by the Chantry. However, at other times, I am not as enshrined in the Chantry way of things, and allow the prisoner to come with me to fight the Blight for whatever reasons. Perhaps it was not knowledge of what lay ahead, but lessons learned from my past. In any event, they are my choices; not yours.

[chefbobby203]

Seeing how my warden alone ends the game with over 1000 kills...what is a few more bodies on the pile? There's probably a few in that list of 1000 that didn't deserve it.

[The Almighty Ali]

My first thought was "He killed a whole group of farmers with his bare hands, imagine what he would do to the darkspawn if he was given an axe!"

[TJPags]

Zenjamin wrote...

ezrafetch wrote...

To me, it's quite simple: don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Don't want it? Don't take it. But help is help, and it's a Blight, so it's perfectly legitimate to take the help when it's offered.

There are good reasons to take him. This is not one of them.

You know what else could help kill darkspawn? an elephant.
but I wouldnt take one into my group, because I dont know this elephant. I have no way of knowing it wont turn on me and charge in a rage. I have no way of knowing it wont do something stupid and endanger me more then it helps. I have no way of knowing it wont attract way too much of attention, and the wrong kind of it.

You have no way of knowing Sten would help yoru mission more then he would hurt it. And if he questions your authority for stupid reasons, then he is as helpful to my teem as that untrained elephant would be.

Well, going by this, do you send Leli away when you find out she's an Orlesian Bard?  Send Morrigan away because she's an apostate you may not be able to control?  Do you reject Oghren, because he's a drunk who killed someone in a proving when he shouldn't have, and may be a loose cannon?

Me, I'll take that elephant, at least until he turns on me.  Then I kill him.

Elhanan wrote...

Except the warrior in question never says he feels guilty. Instead he responds with a question on whether he is guilty, or does he feel guilty of the deed. At no time does this warrior ever absolve himself of the guilt, and in fact may make question that do we never have regret.
Your choices are your own; not less or more valid then mine. Some of my Wardens cannot see past the blood on his hands, and leave him for the justice imposed by the Chantry. However, at other times, I am not as enshrined in the Chantry way of things, and allow the prisoner to come with me to fight the Blight for whatever reasons. Perhaps it was not knowledge of what lay ahead, but lessons learned from my past. In any event, they are my choices; not yours.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he expresses remorse, during the convo when he tells you about his sword.

[Elhanan]

Sten expresses remorse when he is still caged when the Warden responds with, 'That's horrible!", I believe, and again later in a private discussion.

[termokanden]

Sten's mistake is quite unforgivable, and yet he proves himself quite loyal and believes at the end of the game that he has restored his honor. I like this ending much better than having him eaten by darkspawn.

Compare to other characters that most people bring along and Sten isn't so bad. In DAO there's Morrigan, who I really do think is just pure evil. Sten did kill all those people, but that was because losing his sword caused him to panic. Morrigan I'm sure would not hesitate to kill any number of innocents if they were in the way of her goal somehow, or if they owned a bit of shiny jewelry.

Take a look at Jack from Mass Effect 2 also. She's definitely a cold-blooded murderer and all kinds of other things.

I understand why some people won't help Sten. But he really isn't all that evil. He's just a somewhat random force of destruction that doesn't understand how the world works outside his homeland.

Modifié par termokanden, 28 septembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Zenjamin]

Im not unfair. I am seriously telling Morigan to go bugger off.

Her "personal power and elevation is the only thing that matters!" attitude is starting to wear thin. The only reason she has been kept along this long is because her mother seemed to be wise and prophetic enough.



She has to be good for something.

....





hummmmm.

I wounder what ever that could be?

[chefbobby203]

She puts out too though. You're only hurting yourself by letting her go

[Zenjamin]

Thus the "she has to be good for something" Comment.

Zing.



Kinda off topic though. I shoudl make a topic about her later.

(spoiler warning)

Seems kinda unfair that the selfish **** of the group gets her own storyline where she is romored to be running around with the wardens kid somewhere where as you dont get any such special option with the sweet girl.