528 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

kalle90 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
It doesn't make any sense, unless you want totally different kind of combat system.

Exactly. Although I guess you could reach the same result in 2 ways: Improve ME1 system or change ME2 system

Okey. Then let me say this, I may want to improve some of ME2 weapon combat system areas and expand it.
How ever, I don't want ANYTING from the crap system what ME1 had (except some mods). So, I'm happy with the ME2 system alot more than what ME1 had. Meaning, I don't want, what you want.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Mutantcadet14]

I've skimmed this thread and have some thoughts that are undoubtably reppetitions but i want in on this discussion.



1) "Ammo" systems



I liked the ME1 system. That said i also like the ME2 system. There have been several hybrid systems suggested and i would favor any of them over what we have. If i had to give an answer i would say make the weapons waaaaay easier to overheat that ME1 and when they do dock the player a new heat sink.



2) Inventory



I like ME2's system better. There i said it. As much as i enjoy loot i *loved* the fact that we had weapons that i felt had personality. Each gun had a different feel from the last and i feel thats the way it should be regardless of the fact that they were all dropped in your lap. I have thought about this since release and read many arguments and maintain that a few weapons with character beat "loot"



That said, I like the idea of weapon attachments but if ME1's syste returns i will cry. I would spend five to ten minutes tweaking the armor and weapons of my squad and afterwards fell exactly the same. I didnt like it. ME2 stayed out of its own way in this respect but i did miss the attachments... in a sense. What i would propose is something similar to the new armor system. Say on your sniper rifle you could choose between a Slightly larger heat sink or a more powerful mass accelerator (benefiting your clip size or damage respectively). This may not be a great example but with the same number of weapons as ME2 with even just three or four weapon attachment slots, not like ME1 but like which of these two scopes, these two barrels...



My 2 cents

[Rhomer]

I am gonna throw the curveball that makes sense in defense of the new thermal clips.

This is cut content they didn't have the opportunity to put in



"Over the last two years, firearms have undergone a major enhancement to manage their waste heat. When the Systems Alliance analyzed detailed battle telemetry, they found that the geth were able to keep up a more sustained rate of fire, giving them a significant advantage over Alliance marines. So the Alliance retrofitted every weapon in service, making a full conversion to the thermal clip system. Thermal clips hold disposable universal heat sinks. Instead of waiting for an overheated weapon to cool down, combatants simply eject the spent heat sink and the clip feeds in a new one. This allows for a greater sustained rate of fire and more numerous impacts on targets down range. Armorers are hurriedly adapting to this increased lethality with new defensive technology like self-sustaining barrier amps, hardened shield generators, and mass field-integrated armor. But for the moment, the aggressor has the advantage, resulting in the clips' widespread adoption by the galaxy's arms manufacturers."

[DoomMech]

The thing about heat is that it dissipates after a while. Why not for ME3 they implement a system wherein your ammo slooowly regenerates.



Boom, you can let your weapon cool off normally, or eject a clip and continue the barrage.

[sinosleep]

Because depending on how hot the thing which is collecting heat gets it's rendered unusable.

[DoomMech]

Something like that. What I meant was, say, You firing at an enemy with an assault rifle. You run low on ammo in your current clip, but wait a while and the ammo clip will cool off and refill.

[DoomMech]

Of course Bioware could compensate for the theoretical increase in ammunition by having the enemies be unstoppable badasses

[Epic777]

DoomMech wrote...

Of course Bioware could compensate for the theoretical increase in ammunition by having the enemies be unstoppable badasses

You mean enemies bathing in immunity again?

[DoomMech]

I was thinking more along the lines of more than three lines of defense

[kalle90]

DoomMech wrote...
Of course Bioware could compensate for the theoretical increase in ammunition by having the enemies be unstoppable badasses

I don't think that would change much really. If you'd still be changing clips as often the fights wouldn't be that different (Spamming bullets would still lead to having to "reload" and ending up with clips that slowly regenerate from 0)

It would just get rid of having to look for ammo, and having the weird "why does only some people use clips, why collectors drop them and why picking up 1 thermal clip give some ammo to every weapon" system removed. Not a bad deal

[DoomMech]

kalle90 wrote...

DoomMech wrote...
Of course Bioware could compensate for the theoretical increase in ammunition by having the enemies be unstoppable badasses

I don't think that would change much really. If you'd still be changing clips as often the fights wouldn't be that different (Spamming bullets would still lead to having to "reload" and ending up with clips that slowly regenerate from 0)

It would just get rid of having to look for ammo, and having the weird "why does only some people use clips, why collectors drop them and why picking up 1 thermal clip give some ammo to every weapon" system removed. Not a bad deal

It would also make one shot weapons like the Claymore and Mantis rifle actually useful in the long run.

[sinosleep]

DoomMech wrote...

Something like that. What I meant was, say, You firing at an enemy with an assault rifle. You run low on ammo in your current clip, but wait a while and the ammo clip will cool off and refill.

What I was getting at is that the fact that heat eventually dissipating doesn't mean much if the heat makes the object useless. You would just have a cool hunk of junk you couldn't use.

[DoomMech]

Right. But you'd think Mass Effect universe engineers would make the weapons heat resistant, or at the very least an emergency cut off and venting system.

[sinosleep]

DoomMech wrote...

Right. But you'd think Mass Effect universe engineers would make the weapons heat resistant, or at the very least an emergency cut off and venting system.

They did, the one time use version are thermal clips.

[DoomMech]

Actually, you'd think thermal clips would create logistical problems. They're great in a siege situation, but out in the field, cut off from supplies, they'd run out. This negates the advantage of the nigh-infinite ammo the ME1 guns were based on.

[TMA LIVE]

I just hate the idea of being able to shoot the same gun without the need to switch. Example in Mass Effect 1, you can just pistol or shotgun or rifle your way through without ever switching. Like what's to really make you switch from a Assault Rifle to a Pistol? Besides, clips add more difficulty, as well as makes you plan based on how much bullets you have for your Sniper Rifle/Shotgun.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 30 septembre 2010 - 10:38 .

[DoomMech]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I just hate the idea of being able to shoot the same gun without the need to switch. Example in Mass Effect 1, you can just pistol or shotgun or rifle your way through without ever switching. Like what's to really make you switch from a Assault Rifle to a Pistol? Besides, clips add more difficulty, as well as makes you plan on how much bullets you have for your Sniper Rifle/Shotgun.

That's more of a ME1 problem. The pistol was basically a machine pistol. That was rectified in ME2, where the pistols acted like semi-auto hand guns. The shotguns have had the're range nerfed considerably, ditto for sniper rifles. Really the only difference between the new machine pistols and assault rifles is accuracy and DPS vs armor.

They could get away with an new infinite ammo/hybrid system.

[sinosleep]

DoomMech wrote...

Actually, you'd think thermal clips would create logistical problems. They're great in a siege situation, but out in the field, cut off from supplies, they'd run out. This negates the advantage of the nigh-infinite ammo the ME1 guns were based on.

I'm not going to argue the lore aspects of it because clearly ammo was a gameplay decision and not a lore one.

[DoomMech]

Right, but this is a situation were gameplay and lore try to mesh and just creates more questions.

[Rhomer]

DoomMech wrote...

The thing about heat is that it dissipates after a while. Why not for ME3 they implement a system wherein your ammo slooowly regenerates.

Boom, you can let your weapon cool off normally, or eject a clip and continue the barrage.

I am digg'n this idea. Awesome concept

[Lumikki]

DoomMech wrote...

Right, but this is a situation were gameplay and lore try to mesh and just creates more questions.

Maybe, but lore was created to support gameplay as what it was then, but when gameplay failed and needed to be changed, lore was still same. Now are you saying that lore what did not work should force broken gameplay back? That doens't make any more sense than change to lore to support current gameplay. Both are not optimal options, because there will allways be conflict or player have suffer bad gameplay because lore or player can enjoy good gameplay while have old or new lore.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:04 .

[DoomMech]

Lumikki wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

Right, but this is a situation were gameplay and lore try to mesh and just creates more questions.

Maybe, but lore was created to support gameplay as what it was then, but when gameplay failed and needed to be changed, lore was still same. Now are you saying that lore what did not work should force broken gameplay back? That doens't make any more sense than change to lore to support current gameplay. Both are not optimal options, because there will allways be conflict or player have suffer bad gameplay because lore or player can enjoy good gameplay while have old or new lore.

Acknowledged.

[Epic777]

DoomMech: I am confused how are snipers rifles/shotguns underpowered in me2? The claymore will one shot just about anything at point blank range, the Scimitar is very powerful. And the widow is just crazy powerful.

[DoomMech]

Epic777 wrote...

DoomMech: I am confused how are snipers rifles/shotguns underpowered in me2? The claymore will one shot just about anything at point blank range, the Scimitar is very powerful. And the widow is just crazy powerful.

I said they nerfed the RANGE of shot guns and sniper rifles. In ME1, you could kill someone with a shotgun from the other end of a room, and from several miles away with a sniper rifle. But since ME2 is mostly close quarters (engagements happen within 100 foot radii), shorter ranges were required or the difficulty curve is buggered (which begs the question why they brought in the plasma shotgun, which for all intents and purposes is a sniper shotgun).

And since you brought up the Claymore, yes, it is very powerful at point blank range, but on Hardcore/Insanity is outpaced in DPS and range by the Eviserator and Geth Plasma Shotgun, not to mention rate of fire. You could wade through enemy fire with the Claymore and deliver one (und precisely VON!) shot before reload (and messy death), or unload a barrage from the other two.

[sinosleep]

Go to youtube, input the words claymore and vanguard then come back to this thread and tell me that having to reload after each shot is in any way an issue.

Modifié par sinosleep, 30 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .