528 réponses à ce sujet

[DoomMech]

Sorry, but I play on Hardcore, emphasis on HARD. A fully charged Geth Plasma Shotgun will instakill basically anything, and if it doesn't, you're not wasting precious agonizing seconds reloading while your undead ass is absorbing bullets. And the shotgun holds enough ammo to deal with any enemies near your target. Add that to the ridiculous range and limited homing ability and you got the most powerful and versatile guns in the game.

[sinosleep]

I play on insanity, the key being that it's a notch above hardcore, just like practically anyone else that makes videos does. I manage just fine without the GPS, so do my video making peers. Although if you want to compare and contrast individual weapons in ME 2 you might want to take it to PM. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 octobre 2010 - 12:04 .

[DoomMech]

who's PM? And are you trying to one up me? Because I totally did not mean for this thread to turn into and 1uping contest.

[sinosleep]

Private/personal message. And it's kind of hard to not respond to something like

Sorry, but I play on Hardcore, emphasis on HARD.

without a bit of oneupsmanship.

[DoomMech]

heh, sorry

[DoomMech]

And now back to the Serious Business: Why infinite ammo is better for the ME series.

As I've said before, having Thermal clips which gradually bleed off heat in addition to being ejectable could maintain challenge and necessary strategy while retaining the (relative) realism of the setting.

I said relative because realism gets strained when scientifically quantifiable superpowers enabled by a Minovsky Particle that can warp the fabric of time and space get involved. Plus that business with the Collectors and the Ending. 

You know the one. 

Modifié par DoomMech, 01 octobre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Lumikki]

DoomMech wrote...

And now back to the Serious Business: Why infinite ammo is better for the ME series.

For view point of lore maybe, but as for gameplay no. Infinite ammo creates very easylly one best "favour" weapon situations.

When player has to worry also about ammos, player will change weapons more often and use sertain weapons more in sertain situations. Mostly this happens because fear of running out of ammos, this put player in position where they start to think is it wise to use this weapon here or would some other weapon be better. In infinite ammo player just use "favour" best weapon to deal allmost all situations, like one weapon to solve everyting. So infinite ammos creates more simplifyed gameplay, because player use less variety of weapons.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:08 .

[Evil_Weasel]

DoomMech wrote...

The thing about heat is that it dissipates after a while. Why not for ME3 they implement a system wherein your ammo slooowly regenerates.

Boom, you can let your weapon cool off normally, or eject a clip and continue the barrage.

This^ or some slight variation of it is what many of us want, a hybrid system that will apease many crowds. The "ME1 was retarded you could spam bullets endlessly" people will be rewarded for saveing ammo still, and if you cant find ammo for your sniper rifle, you can wait about maybe 60 seconds before your next engagement and get 50% of your ammo back.

Basicly you can go hog-wild on some whole-sale-ammunition-distrabution, but have to wait for the next fight or you can save ammo and move on at a consistant pace.

Base regeneration rate could be 180 (3 min) seconds = full ammo

The Widow has 12 reserve and 1 in the chamber, 1 thermal clip would take 15 seconds to come back, this means you can still run out of ammo in the fight, but you wont be punished if you cant find ammo after the fight.

The Mattock has 64 reserve and 16 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would  2.6 seconds to come back, that may seem fast, but if you run it out of ammo then you have to wait about 3 min for it to regen all the ammo.

The Carnifax has 18 reserve and 6 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would take about 7.5 seconds to come back, this would be great for classes that have fewer weapons to carry in to battle.:happy:

Would something like this work for most of you guys?

[DoomMech]

Lumikki wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

And now back to the Serious Business: Why infinite ammo is better for the ME series.

For view point of lore maybe, but as for gameplay no. Infinite ammo creates very easylly one best weapon situations.

When player has to worry also about ammos, player will change weapons more often and use sertain weapons more in sertain situations. Mostly this happens because fear of running out of ammos, this put player in position where they start to think is it wise to use this weapon here or would some other weapon be better. In infinite ammo player just try to find one best weapon to deal allmost all situations. So infinite ammos creates more simplifyed gameplay, because player use less variety of weapons.

The problem is range. ME2 is very close quarters compared to the distances you could achieve in ME1. Sniper for ultra long range and stopping power, Shotgun for close quarters melees, pistols to pick off stragglers and Assault Rifles to spray groups. ME2 changed that, now the weapons are more distinct. Even with unlimited ammo, players are going to keep switching weapons as the situation dictates because you need to take down enemies quickly or get ganged up on. Add that to enemies who are impervious to certain weapon and ammo types, and you've got a pretty good system with or without finite ammunition.

[DoomMech]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

The thing about heat is that it dissipates after a while. Why not for ME3 they implement a system wherein your ammo slooowly regenerates.

Boom, you can let your weapon cool off normally, or eject a clip and continue the barrage.

This^ or some slight variation of it is what many of us want, a hybrid system that will apease many crowds. The "ME1 was retarded you could spam bullets endlessly" people will be rewarded for saveing ammo still, and if you cant find ammo for your sniper rifle, you can wait about maybe 60 seconds before your next engagement and get 50% of your ammo back.

Basicly you can go hog-wild on some whole-sale-ammunition-distrabution, but have to wait for the next fight or you can save ammo and move on at a consistant pace.

Base regeneration rate could be 180 (3 min) seconds = full ammo

The Widow has 12 reserve and 1 in the chamber, 1 thermal clip would take 15 seconds to come back, this means you can still run out of ammo in the fight, but you wont be punished if you cant find ammo after the fight.

The Mattock has 64 reserve and 16 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would  2.6 seconds to come back, that may seem fast, but if you run it out of ammo then you have to wait about 3 min for it to regen all the ammo.

The Carnifax has 18 reserve and 6 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would take about 7.5 seconds to come back, this would be great for classes that have fewer weapons to carry in to battle.:happy:

Would something like this work for most of you guys?

Shave off a few seconds so as not to break flow and you've got it.

[theelementslayer]

Evil_Weasel wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

The thing about heat is that it dissipates after a while. Why not for ME3 they implement a system wherein your ammo slooowly regenerates.

Boom, you can let your weapon cool off normally, or eject a clip and continue the barrage.

This^ or some slight variation of it is what many of us want, a hybrid system that will apease many crowds. The "ME1 was retarded you could spam bullets endlessly" people will be rewarded for saveing ammo still, and if you cant find ammo for your sniper rifle, you can wait about maybe 60 seconds before your next engagement and get 50% of your ammo back.

Basicly you can go hog-wild on some whole-sale-ammunition-distrabution, but have to wait for the next fight or you can save ammo and move on at a consistant pace.

Base regeneration rate could be 180 (3 min) seconds = full ammo

The Widow has 12 reserve and 1 in the chamber, 1 thermal clip would take 15 seconds to come back, this means you can still run out of ammo in the fight, but you wont be punished if you cant find ammo after the fight.

The Mattock has 64 reserve and 16 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would  2.6 seconds to come back, that may seem fast, but if you run it out of ammo then you have to wait about 3 min for it to regen all the ammo.

The Carnifax has 18 reserve and 6 in the clip, 1 thermal clip would take about 7.5 seconds to come back, this would be great for classes that have fewer weapons to carry in to battle.:happy:

Would something like this work for most of you guys?

Nah Id rather have the ME2 way still. I think your idea is great its just well, where would those come from and such. Also I would find myself just sitting behind crates and waiting in a firefight and using crowd control with my Adept because I wouldnt want to risk it to get ammo. I know of many times where I have ran out of ammo in a fight and then have to run into the fire to get some ammo. It would feel to arcady with the regenerating ammo. Sorry but I hope they keep the new ammo system and not change it. Make a few new missions instead.

[Lumikki]

DoomMech wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

And now back to the Serious Business: Why infinite ammo is better for the ME series.

For view point of lore maybe, but as for gameplay no. Infinite ammo creates very easylly one best weapon situations.

When player has to worry also about ammos, player will change weapons more often and use sertain weapons more in sertain situations. Mostly this happens because fear of running out of ammos, this put player in position where they start to think is it wise to use this weapon here or would some other weapon be better. In infinite ammo player just try to find one best weapon to deal allmost all situations. So infinite ammos creates more simplifyed gameplay, because player use less variety of weapons.

The problem is range. ME2 is very close quarters compared to the distances you could achieve in ME1. Sniper for ultra long range and stopping power, Shotgun for close quarters melees, pistols to pick off stragglers and Assault Rifles to spray groups. ME2 changed that, now the weapons are more distinct. Even with unlimited ammo, players are going to keep switching weapons as the situation dictates because you need to take down enemies quickly or get ganged up on. Add that to enemies who are impervious to certain weapon and ammo types, and you've got a pretty good system with or without finite ammunition.

I do agree that weapons are now more district and I do agree that it's better. How ever, I don't think unlimited ammos would make it any better, it can only go worst direction. Because at least now it's one attributes what cause more use of different weapons, if you take ammo limit out, it's one less attribute in that direction. Also ammo limits allows more district weapons as from balance side.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:28 .

[DoomMech]

Lumikki wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DoomMech wrote...

And now back to the Serious Business: Why infinite ammo is better for the ME series.

For view point of lore maybe, but as for gameplay no. Infinite ammo creates very easylly one best weapon situations.

When player has to worry also about ammos, player will change weapons more often and use sertain weapons more in sertain situations. Mostly this happens because fear of running out of ammos, this put player in position where they start to think is it wise to use this weapon here or would some other weapon be better. In infinite ammo player just try to find one best weapon to deal allmost all situations. So infinite ammos creates more simplifyed gameplay, because player use less variety of weapons.

The problem is range. ME2 is very close quarters compared to the distances you could achieve in ME1. Sniper for ultra long range and stopping power, Shotgun for close quarters melees, pistols to pick off stragglers and Assault Rifles to spray groups. ME2 changed that, now the weapons are more distinct. Even with unlimited ammo, players are going to keep switching weapons as the situation dictates because you need to take down enemies quickly or get ganged up on. Add that to enemies who are impervious to certain weapon and ammo types, and you've got a pretty good system with or without finite ammunition.

I do agree that weapons are now more district and I do agree that it's better. How ever, I don't think unlimited ammos would make it any better, it can only go worst direction. Because at least now it's one attributes what cause more use of different weapons, if you take ammo limit out, it's one less attribute in that direction.

If Bioware takes away ammo (Or uses a hybrid system), they'll have to balance it with tougher enemies with invunerabilities to certain types of weapons. They're crafty like that.

[sim2er]

it should be a weapon mod that allows greater ROF, but with all the drawbacks of limited ammo.
then those how can't aim well can plan for lower ROF but can forget about the limitations of ammo.

i personally never run out of ammo in ME2 because i always try to keep limited assets "topped off". i just can't stand the feeling that i could run out of ammo at any point. in addition, i don't like to have to hunt for clips, they should be auto-credited like loot was in ME1.

EDIT: a hybrid system would be interesting. for example, you can fire like in ME1 but instead of overheating you eject the clip. the availability of clips would be far more limited but this allows greater strategy: do i keep firing and burn the clip (no pun intended) or do i wait for cooldown and allow enemy movement, etc.

Modifié par sim2er, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:56 .

[DoomMech]

sim2er wrote...

it should be a weapon mod that allows greater ROF, but with all the drawbacks of limited ammo.
then those how can't aim well can plan for lower ROF but can forget about the limitations of ammo.

i personally never run out of ammo in ME2 because i always try to keep limited assets "topped off". i just can't stand the feeling that i could run out of ammo at any point. in addition, i don't like to have to hunt for clips, they should be auto-credited like loot was in ME1.

I made a Wishlist with radical Mods on it on the Mass Effect 3 wishlist thread. So yeah, ROF changing mods, extended magazines, etc. These are good ideas.

[DoomMech]

Scram Rail: Moar Damage, less ammo

Frictionless Materials: Moar ammo

Kinetic Stabilizer: more accuracy

High Explosive rounds: Drasticly less ammo in exchange for blowing crap up.

Modifié par DoomMech, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:57 .

[sim2er]

DoomMech wrote...

Scram Rail: Moar Damage, less ammo

Frictionless Materials: Moar ammo

Kinetic Stabilizer: more accuracy

High Explosive rounds: Drasticly less ammo in exchange for blowing crap up.

THIS + the proposed hybrid system
(of course the geth invented/use thermal clips, they have precisely calculated aim. the rest of us organics just run out of ammo...)

EDIT: sorry i took credit for an idea that is as the next poster pointed out is of the community

Modifié par sim2er, 01 octobre 2010 - 03:57 .

[DoomMech]

I'm sorry, YOUR hybrid system?



Let's just head this argument off at the pass and say it's nobody's idea and just a system thought up by the collective.

[Merlin 47]

theelementslayer wrote...

Nah Id rather have the ME2 way still. I think your idea is great its just well, where would those come from and such. Also I would find myself just sitting behind crates and waiting in a firefight and using crowd control with my Adept because I wouldnt want to risk it to get ammo. I know of many times where I have ran out of ammo in a fight and then have to run into the fire to get some ammo. It would feel to arcady with the regenerating ammo. Sorry but I hope they keep the new ammo system and not change it. Make a few new missions instead.

This.

[DoomMech]

Actually the system i thought up was you leave the clip in the gun and after a while, it cools off to be used again.

[Mars Nova]

You do realize that the ammo is unlimited, right? What you're collecting are thermal clips, which regulate your weapon's heat. Without those, you can't fire.

[sim2er]

Mars Nova wrote...

You do realize that the ammo is unlimited, right? What you're collecting are thermal clips, which regulate your weapon's heat. Without those, you can't fire.

yeah but mechanically your ammunition is limited. in ME1 the clip cooled off and was built into the gun; in ME2 the clip was removable to facilitate faster firing (a geth idea).

another hybrid idea is that you could carry a thermal coil to dissipate heat for when you ran out of ammo, but your gun would overheat rapidly. or, even better you fire like in ME1 but weapon cooldowns are extremely slow unless you activate a cooldown mode that is auto activated on overheat (the purpose be to use a system like ME2 with longer reload times but no limit to the number of times you can reload)

in theory you should be able to fire without clips, but your weapon would overheat rapidly. also, as a continuity error, commander sheperd should ask why he can't fire [after two years of change], and miranda should explain the thermal clips. (rather than "look for a thermal clip for your pistol")

Modifié par sim2er, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:18 .

[Terror_K]

Lumikki wrote...

Yeah, but ME2's weapon combat system doesn't need fixing, it may only need expanding, the base is solid. There isn't any major gameplay problems in ME2 weapon system. Why are you trying to replace ME2's weapon combat system with other (ME1's) what is allready broken and then try to fix the broken system, when you allready have good working system?

It doesn't make any sense, unless you want totally different kind of combat system.

Well... isn't this ironic. It's okay to change everything in ME1 for ME2's methods, but suddenly if one talks about changing ME2's system it's all sacrilege and doesn't make sense.

ME2's system does need fixing. A lot of it. It's just far too shallow and lacking. ME1's needed fixing too, but instead of doing so they scrapped it and replaced it. And now the idea of scrapping and replacing ME2's system horrifies and dumbfounds you it seems. Now you know how many of us felt in the first place when ME2 made the change it did. I actually thought ME1 had a more solid base of a system than ME2 does, but that it was let down by balancing and needless complication. ME2's system is just functional, and that's about it. Beyond that it's bland, boring and lacking in depth or complexity.

I'll admit merely adding some of what was lost in ME1 (as well as some other factors) could sort it out with the base of it remaining largely the same, but then remember that many felt similarly about ME1's system. Keep that in mind.

[sinosleep]

The difference Terror K is in the mission statement. They wanted to shore up the shooter gameplay that even BioWare admitted was weak, so they applied shooter standards to the game. Would going back make any sense given that?

Given the mission statement there was every reason in the world to junk ME 1's system, being as they've met their mission statement there is no reason to junk ME 2's.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:49 .

[Terror_K]

sinosleep wrote...

The difference Terror K is in the mission statement. They wanted to shore up the shooter gameplay that even BioWare admitted was weak, so they applied shooter standards to the game. Would going back make any sense given that?

Given the mission statement there was every reason in the world to junk ME 1's system, being as they've met their mission statement there is no reason to junk ME 2's.

And I understand that. What I don't understand is why that has to mean a whole bunch of other factors needed to be kicked to the curb as well. Getting rid of the "cone of death" and replacing it will skill-based shooting rather than stat-based shooting didn't mean so much of the rest if it had to go the way of the dodo, or instead me implemented in this horribly shallow and linear "do it all for you" manner.

Simply put: shoring up shooter gameplay doesn't mean whittling away almost every ounce of RPG gameplay to the point where it's almost an entirely shooter-based combat system (and a bare-bones one at that). Let's remember that originally Mass Effect was intended to be an RPG first and foremost, but with TPS-based combat.

Modifié par Terror_K, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:04 .