Yes, that's who I was talking about. Thanks for the info. It must be ten years or more since I read that book and I wasn't sure how to look it up without knowing the title.
Asari mentally influncing the perceptions of others, a fallacy
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Tilarta
, sept. 24 2010 12:22
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#27
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 12:20
Lvl20DM
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I think that different species see the similarities to Asari instead of the differences. This is probably a pheremone or something. Humans focus on the body shape, Turians on the head, Salarians on the skin and do forth. I doubt the Asari consciously control it.
#28
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 01:26
inversevideo
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I don't think that Asari project a false image of themselves, they look like they look.
However, they might use phermones. Which makes sense if Asari were designed (or less likely evolved) to be able to mate with any species; as they would have to overcome that species distrust of 'other' that would normally prevent cross species mating.
When you speak with Aria T'Loak, about her history with Patriarch, Aria tells you that Patriarch's men deserted him in droves because she and her Asari 'took advantage of certain skills her people tend to down-play'
However, they might use phermones. Which makes sense if Asari were designed (or less likely evolved) to be able to mate with any species; as they would have to overcome that species distrust of 'other' that would normally prevent cross species mating.
When you speak with Aria T'Loak, about her history with Patriarch, Aria tells you that Patriarch's men deserted him in droves because she and her Asari 'took advantage of certain skills her people tend to down-play'
Modifié par inversevideo, 24 septembre 2010 - 01:29 .
#29
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 01:36
PsyrenY
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I agree that they are not radiating mind control "love me waves."
However, it is feasible that they can tailor their pheromones to any species they are capable of mating with. After all, if they can figure out your nervous system, they can manipulate it to a degree as well. And it's not like every individual in the galaxy ever finds asari attractive - e.g. the Krogan on the citadel with his fish-loving friend thinks they're "too squishy."
Furthermore, if they WERE using mind control, turians would not see their "funny bumps," and salarians would not see the "divots in their abdomens." They would look exactly like their own species and lack breasts and navels.
The bachelor party was a classic case of the Blind Men and the Elephant. (I cite this tale everytime this topic comes up.)
However, it is feasible that they can tailor their pheromones to any species they are capable of mating with. After all, if they can figure out your nervous system, they can manipulate it to a degree as well. And it's not like every individual in the galaxy ever finds asari attractive - e.g. the Krogan on the citadel with his fish-loving friend thinks they're "too squishy."
Furthermore, if they WERE using mind control, turians would not see their "funny bumps," and salarians would not see the "divots in their abdomens." They would look exactly like their own species and lack breasts and navels.
The bachelor party was a classic case of the Blind Men and the Elephant. (I cite this tale everytime this topic comes up.)
#30
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 09:44
OBakaSama
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On the very idea of Asari looking different to different species I have to admit I think of G.E.L.F.s.
Personally, on the bachelor party....were they drunk? I mean...don't people look more attractive when you're drunk?
Personally, on the bachelor party....were they drunk? I mean...don't people look more attractive when you're drunk?
#31
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 10:00
crimzontearz
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uh.....if that was the case then "images" of asari shown on the extranet or in paintings (let's even add "to people who have never even met asari" in person just to be sure) should look NOTHING like the Asari we see directly..and that is not the case
#32
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 10:40
Killjoy Cutter
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Pheremones?
People here do realize that pheremones activate receptors that are very species-specific, right?
People here do realize that pheremones activate receptors that are very species-specific, right?
#33
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 10:42
Killjoy Cutter
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Asari "in the business" are just good at playing up the member of another species might find attractive, I think.
And to the person who noted the Blind Men and the Elephant regarding the bachelor party in the bar on Illium, you win the thread.
And to the person who noted the Blind Men and the Elephant regarding the bachelor party in the bar on Illium, you win the thread.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 septembre 2010 - 10:43 .
#34
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 10:50
Nightwriter
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StarcloudSWG wrote...
Mordin: "Odd feelings around Asari. Reminders of old fertility contract negotiations. Curious."
There is a subtle effect they have on those around them, the hints are all over both games. But this is a *subtle*
effect, and not something that has any combat use, so Bioware doesn't bother to put it in as an ability.
And Aria has *two* lines she uses. One is "And his men were accustomed to certain benefits of working with Asari." This is the one referring to more mundane means of persuasion. The other is "I took advantage of certain.. abilities.. my people don't like to talk about." This is the one referring to the stuff Asari don't like to talk about, because talking about it invariably ends up with ignorant people shouting "Down with the mind controllers!"
Pretty sure we're just supposed to think the asari are super sexy. Even to salarians. Or have overproductive pheromone glands or something.
And I'm also pretty sure Aria's talking about sex. Sex is the ability she's referring to.
I mean in Revelation there's a batarian staring at a human thinking, "They look a lot like the asari."
#35
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 11:02
Guest_Shandepared_*
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I think it is just the developers poking fun at the notion that any race that doesn't share the same body-shape as the asari (like humans and maybe quarians or batarians) would ever find them sexually appealing in large numbers.
#36
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 11:03
Snowship
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Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Pheremones?
People here do realize that pheremones activate receptors that are very species-specific, right?
Shhhh...
Don't bring reality into it!
#37
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 12:34
MaaZeus
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Lvl20DM wrote...
I think that different species see the similarities to Asari instead of the differences. This is probably a pheremone or something. Humans focus on the body shape, Turians on the head, Salarians on the skin and do forth. I doubt the Asari consciously control it.
Exactly. Humans see the face and boobs, Turians see the tentacle "ridge". Not sure what Salarians see in them, or Krogan but it doesnt matter. If Asari would be "changing their shape" depending on watcher, a mere photo would blow this cover as photo has no mind to screw up, it is a picture taken from the reflection of light. And if you think the watcher of said photo would see the picture falsified to what Asari "wants them to see subconciously", what about people who have never seen a live Asari before? Earth has billions of them I am certain of it!
So no, the Bachelor party is just a joke devs threw in to screw with our minds. But if you really think about it, it makes no sense at all.
Modifié par MaaZeus, 25 septembre 2010 - 12:53 .
#38
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 12:49
Skyblade012
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crimzontearz wrote...
uh.....if that was the case then "images" of asari shown on the extranet or in paintings (let's even add "to people who have never even met asari" in person just to be sure) should look NOTHING like the Asari we see directly..and that is not the case
This.
#39
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 01:21
Sajuro
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Mordin has speculated that all species find Asari attractive because of such a pheremone, but Asari being able to mind-control others has never really had much position. Even Samara says that Morinth's persuasive abilities are merely great acting abilities, not magic or drugging.
[/quote]
No no, that's just want the Asari want you to think because the Asari want to control everything -runs to blackboard and writes SX on it- now there's a letter missing here, and its a Y -adds Y on- because they don't want you asking why!! -Puts E between S and X- because because they know you will go "eeeeeeeeeeeeee" over their bodies if you knew the truth that they were brainwashing you by putting Floride in your element zero -breaks down into tears- I ju-just love this galaxy so much it's hard not to cry
[/quote]
No no, that's just want the Asari want you to think because the Asari want to control everything -runs to blackboard and writes SX on it- now there's a letter missing here, and its a Y -adds Y on- because they don't want you asking why!! -Puts E between S and X- because because they know you will go "eeeeeeeeeeeeee" over their bodies if you knew the truth that they were brainwashing you by putting Floride in your element zero -breaks down into tears- I ju-just love this galaxy so much it's hard not to cry
#40
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 01:33
Heimdall
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Remember this is just Grayson's speculation, nothing more
#41
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 02:31
crimzontearz
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Skyblade012 wrote...
crimzontearz wrote...
uh.....if that was the case then "images" of asari shown on the extranet or in paintings (let's even add "to people who have never even met asari" in person just to be sure) should look NOTHING like the Asari we see directly..and that is not the case
This.
it's useless
some people seem to enjoy playing dumb
#42
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 03:15
Skyblade012
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Sajuro wrote...
Mordin has speculated that all species find Asari attractive because of such a pheremone.
No, he didn't. He specifically said that a pheremone is highly unlikely, and that a more plausible connection is a neuro-chemical attraction.
#43
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 03:18
Sajuro
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Sorry, I messed up a quote from Dean the Young, my post was the stuff below that.Skyblade012 wrote...
Sajuro wrote...
Mordin has speculated that all species find Asari attractive because of such a pheremone.
No, he didn't. He specifically said that a pheremone is highly unlikely, and that a more plausible connection is a neuro-chemical attraction.
#44
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 03:20
Skyblade012
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Sajuro wrote...
Sorry, I messed up a quote from Dean the Young, my post was the stuff below that.Skyblade012 wrote...
Sajuro wrote...
Mordin has speculated that all species find Asari attractive because of such a pheremone.
No, he didn't. He specifically said that a pheremone is highly unlikely, and that a more plausible connection is a neuro-chemical attraction.
Yeah, sorry, saw the line in your post, clipped the rest, forgot about the name change. My bad.
#45
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 03:56
AresXX7
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I would say one of the best examples we've seen so far is Matriarch Aethyta.
As Shep gets drunk, losing mental focus, she becomes more attractive, nothing more.
As Shep gets drunk, losing mental focus, she becomes more attractive, nothing more.
Modifié par AriesXX7, 25 septembre 2010 - 03:57 .
#46
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 04:31
Aedan_Cousland
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The Asari form is the same no matter what species is looking at them.
I do think the Asari have a subtle 'influence' with other species, but that influence isn't an ability to trick the mind into seeing the Asari in a different form. There is a logo of an Asari dancer in Chora's Den. If the Asari were doing some sort of mental shapeshift, it wouldn't translate to art. Photography and video also exist in the Mass Effect universe. Mind tricks wouldn't translate to photography or video either, and people who hadn't met the Asari that was in a photograph or on the news, or in a movie, would see the 'true' form and not the form that appears via some sort of mindtrick.
If Shepard romances Liara in ME1 and does not take a LI in ME2, he has a photo of Liara on his desk to gaze at. If the Asari were doing a mental shapeshift, Shepard should be able to see Liara's 'true' form in the photograph. It is also likely that other members of the crew, such as Kelly if she is feeding the fish, would also see her 'true' form and make mention of the weird tentacle faced alien from a species they've never seen before. Since that doesn't happen, it is safe to say that what we know as the Asari is exactly what they look like.
I do think the Asari have a subtle 'influence' with other species, but that influence isn't an ability to trick the mind into seeing the Asari in a different form. There is a logo of an Asari dancer in Chora's Den. If the Asari were doing some sort of mental shapeshift, it wouldn't translate to art. Photography and video also exist in the Mass Effect universe. Mind tricks wouldn't translate to photography or video either, and people who hadn't met the Asari that was in a photograph or on the news, or in a movie, would see the 'true' form and not the form that appears via some sort of mindtrick.
If Shepard romances Liara in ME1 and does not take a LI in ME2, he has a photo of Liara on his desk to gaze at. If the Asari were doing a mental shapeshift, Shepard should be able to see Liara's 'true' form in the photograph. It is also likely that other members of the crew, such as Kelly if she is feeding the fish, would also see her 'true' form and make mention of the weird tentacle faced alien from a species they've never seen before. Since that doesn't happen, it is safe to say that what we know as the Asari is exactly what they look like.
Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 25 septembre 2010 - 04:34 .
#47
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 04:34
evmiller
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Flies_by_Handles wrote...
I think their universal appeal has less to do with their physical appearance and more to do with some gentle, mental persuasion and uh, maybe with a bit of pheromones thrown into the mix. This reminds me of a Star Wars novel about a lizard man (can't remember his name) having power over Leia because of his irresistible pheromones. >_<
Prince Xizor
#48
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 05:16
Sajuro
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Wouldn't the Zeltron people be better example for use of Pheromones because as stated on Wookiepedia, owing its survival to the fact the most of the invaders have been overwhelmed by the pheromones and party atmosphere.evmiller wrote...
Flies_by_Handles wrote...
I think their universal appeal has less to do with their physical appearance and more to do with some gentle, mental persuasion and uh, maybe with a bit of pheromones thrown into the mix. This reminds me of a Star Wars novel about a lizard man (can't remember his name) having power over Leia because of his irresistible pheromones. >_<
Prince Xizor
#49
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 06:39
Dman3003
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whenever i think of this topic i imagine asari doing the jedi mind trick whilst wearing the Ben Kenobi robe.
Modifié par Dman3003, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:39 .
#50
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 09:23
Ieldra
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Let's face it: there is no way to make asari universal attraction plausible without going off into the magical. The problem is that, while there's a lot of other stuff like that in the ME universe, as the notion of biotic "action at a distance", general inter-species attraction is much harder to overlook. It shapes the world in a much more fundamental manner than any single-purpose "magical technology" because it influences how characters relate to each other.
To explain interspecies attraction in a plausible way, you would first have to answer the question: why is the biochemistry attraction is based on compatible between intelligent species from different star systems, while not being compatible between *any single* other pair of multicellular species known to science, even if they are from the same planet? The only explanation I can come up with is that intelligent species have been engineered by one and the same ancient intelligence, and even then the question remains why they haven't evolved away from each other in the meantime, as physically separated groups are wont to do.
(BTW, not being able to interbreed with other species is so fundamental to the concept of a species that it's included in the very *definition* of the term "species")
In the end, it's just so silly I can't accept it. I don't get why so many people are fascinated by blue-skinned space babes, though I admit that given the almost universal appeal, BioWare has made the right decision commercially.
As for the mind control:
As far as I know, I'm the one who brought that up in my rant about inter-species romance on the old forums back in 2008, but it was ever meant satirical, as in "How the hell do they manage to appear attractive to everyone? By mind control?" I don't take it seriously.
To explain interspecies attraction in a plausible way, you would first have to answer the question: why is the biochemistry attraction is based on compatible between intelligent species from different star systems, while not being compatible between *any single* other pair of multicellular species known to science, even if they are from the same planet? The only explanation I can come up with is that intelligent species have been engineered by one and the same ancient intelligence, and even then the question remains why they haven't evolved away from each other in the meantime, as physically separated groups are wont to do.
(BTW, not being able to interbreed with other species is so fundamental to the concept of a species that it's included in the very *definition* of the term "species")
In the end, it's just so silly I can't accept it. I don't get why so many people are fascinated by blue-skinned space babes, though I admit that given the almost universal appeal, BioWare has made the right decision commercially.
As for the mind control:
As far as I know, I'm the one who brought that up in my rant about inter-species romance on the old forums back in 2008, but it was ever meant satirical, as in "How the hell do they manage to appear attractive to everyone? By mind control?" I don't take it seriously.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 septembre 2010 - 09:28 .
