I've finished this game with a number of characters, some time ago. Well I decided to give it a go again. Boy had I forgotten some of the things I absolutely hate about this game. For example, no one with a bow will stay put and shoot from a distance. They all feel the need to run up and shoot point blank, including my character if I have to shift to a different person to direct them. They all run up.
Then there's the involentary turning. Most of the time if I'm using the keys to move, my character will turn anywhere from a 45 deg turn to a complete 180 when I stop. Become quite a pain having to constantly correct them.
We also have the don't want to listen to orders syndrome. Tell someone or someones to attack something and on the way they stop and decide to attack something else. I had to tell my character 3 to 4 times to attack a mage before they actually did it.
Then there's the follower lag. I've run up into battle only to find I'm alone, cause my companions are still standing 100 yards back with there daggers stuck up there back sides.
I'm sorry but I don't feel I should have to micromanage my characters 24/7. These things bugged me the first times I played this game years ago, but now that I've played games that actually do these things and do them well, I'm having a really hard time trying to play this game again. I just shut the game down cuz nobody was doing anything right and I was yelling my ____ off at the computer. Had to take a break.
I'm curious. Is anyone else having these problems or is it just me. I have a hard time believing that no one else is suffering through these problems. Maybe I'm just going mad, in which case I can live with that. Sorry people just had to vent. My roomies aren't gamers and talking to them is like talking to a 100 year old pioneer. Absolutely clueless.
just venting
Débuté par
wallydog
, sept. 24 2010 12:37
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#2
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 01:03
kamalpoe
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Well, you're not using a fast race like gray orc, or a monk or have the dash feat, are you? Are you setting their follow distance in their behavior? You can also issue orders to attack specific enemies. My archers attack at an appropriate range and enemy archers attempt to back off if I close to close to them, but I am using the TonyK ai, which I would suggest to anyone.
#3
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 07:47
wallydog
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playing a human rogue, follow distance is medium, and I've even turned off the protect the main character opion off. Still get the same results. Not to mention the character spin. No one can explain that, well at least not yet. None of my friends who play can or anyone I've talked to online either. I've beaten the game with almost all character classes except mage classes (just can't get into them) and four different races. I'm reasonably familiar with class speeds and the like. Oh well. Doomed to an eternity of frustration and yelling not so nice things at my computer. Such is life.
#4
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 10:34
Haplose
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I figure you need to tweak your Behaviour settings a bit.
It's not nearly as bad when you find settings that work for you.
Using Voice commands also tends to help a lot (you can drag them to your Quickbar).
Oh and, especially if you don't have SoZ, get TonyK's AI mod! (SoZ officially implemented most of TonyK's work - still not a bad ida to get the latest and most complete version of the mod).
It's not nearly as bad when you find settings that work for you.
Using Voice commands also tends to help a lot (you can drag them to your Quickbar).
Oh and, especially if you don't have SoZ, get TonyK's AI mod! (SoZ officially implemented most of TonyK's work - still not a bad ida to get the latest and most complete version of the mod).
#5
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 12:38
hauksdottir
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I have no idea why your character is spinning, but you might want to check your camera controls (you have 3 or 4 options). You can choose to use strategy mode or character mode. You can choose which way to turn when you use the arrow keys. Before playing the game, go through all the set-up options and finesse them for your comfort and style.
Followers typically have a lag before they catch up. I go into the voice command menu and drag "follow" and "hold" to the quickbar for most of the NPCs as well as my PC. A click on "follow" when I move off, and they are following even before the command is uttered.
I prefer to micromanage my party, but then, I play with spellcasters and leave the fighters back home guzzling beer and polishing their swords.
Followers typically have a lag before they catch up. I go into the voice command menu and drag "follow" and "hold" to the quickbar for most of the NPCs as well as my PC. A click on "follow" when I move off, and they are following even before the command is uttered.
I prefer to micromanage my party, but then, I play with spellcasters and leave the fighters back home guzzling beer and polishing their swords.
Modifié par hauksdottir, 24 septembre 2010 - 12:39 .
#6
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 01:00
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
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I can't say about the turning thing, since I never use the keyboard for movement unless somebody gets stuck behind a door. As for archery, the only time I've seen that problem is if they have already started to advance with a melee weapon toward an enemy and you switch them to a ranged weapon. Yeah, they'll run right up next to it with a bow and start shooting. Take control of the companion, stop them where you want them, switch to bow and give them a target. Or, just routinely switch everyone to ranged weapons when you are exploring, then when you issue an attack command they'll all start shooting. Yes, it requires some micromanagement.
As for Tony K's mod, I'm in a distinct minority of those who don't like it. I used in NWN and have sincerely tried at least three times (and three different versions) to use it in NWN2, but I always give up when my party, inevitably, goes into "cat fire drill" mode. Somebody detects an unseen enemy on the other side of a wall and everybody starts running back and forth uncontrollably along the wall, despite any orders I give them. I've even had them do it along an uncrossable stream in open terrain instead of obeying my orders to use their bows against a distant enemy.
As for Tony K's mod, I'm in a distinct minority of those who don't like it. I used in NWN and have sincerely tried at least three times (and three different versions) to use it in NWN2, but I always give up when my party, inevitably, goes into "cat fire drill" mode. Somebody detects an unseen enemy on the other side of a wall and everybody starts running back and forth uncontrollably along the wall, despite any orders I give them. I've even had them do it along an uncrossable stream in open terrain instead of obeying my orders to use their bows against a distant enemy.
#7
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 05:50
I_Raps
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Sieben Elfriend wrote...
As for Tony K's mod, I'm in a distinct minority of those who don't like it.
A distinct minority, perhaps, but WE'RE not alone.
When I give the barbarian an order to rush the enemy wizard, I don't want him to pull up after three steps and switch to a bow. More generally, when I give an order, I expect it to be done. Paladins etc. ignoring orders to stand and charging after barely visible enemies in the original sytem is bad enough; I don't need to introduce a whole menu of insubordination through a mod.
wallydog - I wouldn't put too much stock in TonyK's AI to solve your problems. It may take care of some, but it introduces its own issues. I suggest you learn the "voice" commands as a better alternative. Also - the X key is your best friend. When people get stalled, spread out, or lost - X will bring them all together; it will set them on one target; it will get them to listen to your voice again; it will even get the familiar moving (if you've switched him out of puppetmode).
p.s. I don't know about that turning issue, either. And I do use the direction keys a lot. I wonder if there may not be a driver issue with your keyboard if it's a fancy one.
Modifié par I_Raps, 24 septembre 2010 - 05:59 .
#8
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:22
kamalpoe
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We're getting off topic, but you can turn off the use of ranged weapons in the behaviors tab.I_Raps wrote...
When I give the barbarian an order to rush the enemy wizard, I don't want him to pull up after three steps and switch to a bow.
#9
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:31
wallydog
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I've played with the behaviour numerous times, I use the voice commands all the time, I know the companions have a lag so I usually tell them to follow but sometimes I forget and when I end up almost a quarter mile ahead (or at least thats what it seems) that lag is way, way too long. In no other game I've play does the lag last soooooo long.
Then there's still the not listening to there commands and choosing to disregard my orders. like I said, I'll tell them to attack someone and they'll stop and attack someone else. Three times I ordered my character to attack a mage before they actually got around to it.
As for my keyboard, it's just a simple microsoft natural keyboard. It's done this through three different keyboards.
Then there's still the not listening to there commands and choosing to disregard my orders. like I said, I'll tell them to attack someone and they'll stop and attack someone else. Three times I ordered my character to attack a mage before they actually got around to it.
As for my keyboard, it's just a simple microsoft natural keyboard. It's done this through three different keyboards.
#10
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 06:32
painofdungeoneternal
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First thing - the game is well worth fixing these problems even if it takes some effort, if only because there is so many things you can do in the community beyond what comes with the stock game. Camera is adjustable, and even the AI is something we can tweak. It's not like a fast food meal like most games where you don't put effort into it because you won't get much out of it.
I would make sure you have done the following.
1. Patch up to 1.23. If you are not fully patched, well you are inflicting this suffering on yourself, there are a lot of fixes.
2. Install TonyK's AI. You already did it when you patched to 1.23, this just adds things to address issues that were noticed after 1.23, and puts options you can use to adjust how npc's behave. ( It also adds support for community content like Kaedrins PRC which i'd call a must have )
3. Learn how to configure the camera or tweak guide, the edge turn sensitivity is adjustable and you can turn it off, and there are way too many options for each of the 3 modes. You really can make it work however you want. It never is going to be something which makes people think it works really well, but with adjustments it can be made so it's not something you think about. ( It really is an issue that the camera defaults suck, if they changed them it would prevent a lot of the complaints )
4. WASD movement is a weak point in the game since it really is an RPG, try using mouse clicks on the ground to move and assign movement orders when WASD is an issue. Also using Skywing's Client Extension addresses some issues with WASD in both SP and MP, and makes areas load faster. Another must have item since it prevents many known crashes.
5. Like has been said learn the voice chat commands and give orders. You can drag them to your hotbar.
If you want the NPC's to be as smart as people, then try playing a PW (Persistent World). That is the only way to get the AI which makes sense, you can play in a party and really work together. I have worked with the AI and it's biggest issue is really how many options you have as a player. It's proportionate to the complexity of the game, the games which have good AI also tend to be ones which have much less options, simpler game rules. If i could fix it as some want, well i'd be doing work for the military and making much better money ( and likely creating a future you see in a movie like terminator ).
@ Sieben Elfriend Would you be willing to recreate this with some of my scripts instead of the default ones. I added some line of sight checks and distance checks in, even though i made it so if the opponent is within a very short range then they can be heard thru walls or thru doors and might do the same thing. It is basically in Beta stage now focused on improving performance, but the way i did it, it should be usable by anyone in SP and MP. I don't see how using TonyK or not using TonyK would help on this issue ( the AI is the default AI in patch 1.23, nor is it related to NWN1 except in spirit, his latest just fixes some things the devs neglected to put in, and add in options to control how your companions behave ).
I would make sure you have done the following.
1. Patch up to 1.23. If you are not fully patched, well you are inflicting this suffering on yourself, there are a lot of fixes.
2. Install TonyK's AI. You already did it when you patched to 1.23, this just adds things to address issues that were noticed after 1.23, and puts options you can use to adjust how npc's behave. ( It also adds support for community content like Kaedrins PRC which i'd call a must have )
3. Learn how to configure the camera or tweak guide, the edge turn sensitivity is adjustable and you can turn it off, and there are way too many options for each of the 3 modes. You really can make it work however you want. It never is going to be something which makes people think it works really well, but with adjustments it can be made so it's not something you think about. ( It really is an issue that the camera defaults suck, if they changed them it would prevent a lot of the complaints )
4. WASD movement is a weak point in the game since it really is an RPG, try using mouse clicks on the ground to move and assign movement orders when WASD is an issue. Also using Skywing's Client Extension addresses some issues with WASD in both SP and MP, and makes areas load faster. Another must have item since it prevents many known crashes.
5. Like has been said learn the voice chat commands and give orders. You can drag them to your hotbar.
If you want the NPC's to be as smart as people, then try playing a PW (Persistent World). That is the only way to get the AI which makes sense, you can play in a party and really work together. I have worked with the AI and it's biggest issue is really how many options you have as a player. It's proportionate to the complexity of the game, the games which have good AI also tend to be ones which have much less options, simpler game rules. If i could fix it as some want, well i'd be doing work for the military and making much better money ( and likely creating a future you see in a movie like terminator ).
@ Sieben Elfriend Would you be willing to recreate this with some of my scripts instead of the default ones. I added some line of sight checks and distance checks in, even though i made it so if the opponent is within a very short range then they can be heard thru walls or thru doors and might do the same thing. It is basically in Beta stage now focused on improving performance, but the way i did it, it should be usable by anyone in SP and MP. I don't see how using TonyK or not using TonyK would help on this issue ( the AI is the default AI in patch 1.23, nor is it related to NWN1 except in spirit, his latest just fixes some things the devs neglected to put in, and add in options to control how your companions behave ).
Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 24 septembre 2010 - 06:37 .
#11
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
Posté 24 septembre 2010 - 11:28
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
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Pain, I'm not sure I understand. You have a variant of Tony K's mod? A new AI? Not sure I'm the one to help you test it, but I'd give it a try.
#12
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 01:37
I_Raps
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Sieben Elfriend wrote...
Pain, I'm not sure I understand. You have a variant of Tony K's mod? A new AI? Not sure I'm the one to help you test it, but I'd give it a try.
Parts of TonyK's AI were incorporated into the core AI. I think that came before 1.23 - along with SOZ and whatever patch that was. Not the whole thing, though; just the non-controversial parts. TonyK did put out an update that made his mod compatible with the 1.23 patch. I just looked - wow, it's been a year!
Modifié par I_Raps, 25 septembre 2010 - 01:38 .
#13
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 02:02
Guest_Sieben Elfriend_*
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Yes, I know. I never had a problem with it in SoZ, but recently I was playing the highly rated Trinity module and ran into exactly what you describe. Complex combat situation, order your tank to run and attack a distant target while you arrange fire support like a good team leader, he goes about 2 steps and switches to his bow. Pain in the arse. I don't know the solution, but another layer of artificial stupid probably isn't it.
#14
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 07:59
Haplose
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The solution is to disable automatic weapon switching in his Behaviour tab. Then he surely won't switch to his bow anymore.
I do find the weapon switching annoying at times, so I generally disable it. Can always switch manually if I want to.
I do find the weapon switching annoying at times, so I generally disable it. Can always switch manually if I want to.
Modifié par Haplose, 25 septembre 2010 - 08:00 .
#15
Posté 25 septembre 2010 - 11:42
hauksdottir
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I didn't like what I was hearing about TonyK's AI or the latest patches where the devs incorporated part of it. It's not good to take pieces out of an integrated system. The game is pretty stable at 1.13, and that is where I'm sitting.
For enemies, remember that your guys can HEAR them as well as see them. This is handy when they are invisible, but a nuisance if they are in the next corridor plus one. An orc in chainmail or a howling hellhound can probably be heard for a block or two, and those labyrinthine dungeons would distort rather than muffle the sounds.
BTW, if you've ever roleplayed ftf, you will have seen a group of truly intelligent gamers separating and running down different hallways... Every. Single. Time. The AI is doing a great job of mimicing what heroes do when faced with choice.
For enemies, remember that your guys can HEAR them as well as see them. This is handy when they are invisible, but a nuisance if they are in the next corridor plus one. An orc in chainmail or a howling hellhound can probably be heard for a block or two, and those labyrinthine dungeons would distort rather than muffle the sounds.
BTW, if you've ever roleplayed ftf, you will have seen a group of truly intelligent gamers separating and running down different hallways... Every. Single. Time. The AI is doing a great job of mimicing what heroes do when faced with choice.
Modifié par hauksdottir, 25 septembre 2010 - 11:43 .
#16
Posté 29 septembre 2010 - 03:30
dethia
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most game ai's are dumb we just have to live with it for now. Dragon Age Origins the AI was just plain dum, Mass Effect/Mass Effect 2, the ai was plain dumb. Ego II Draconis, the monster ai is plain dumb so many terrain exploits it's not even funny. AI is hard to do, every ai out there is crap but hey as we reach the graphic limit, I'm sure dev's will need something to promote and hype their games, hopefully better AI's will do it. As far as my experience with gaming right now, in order to create challenging scenarios the devs simply overpower the opponents. One of my favorite games of all time, the Armored Core series. In order for the AI to pose any level of difficulty at the harder levels they gave the AI cheats that allowed them to break all the limitations places upon players. Even then many of the fights weren't challenging, AI's are just difficult to do.
