219 réponses à ce sujet

[jwalker]

Simbacca wrote...

My Engineer has Neural Shockwave as a bonus power (for organic missions) and here's what I had found.

When it comes to Neural Shock vs Cryo Blast:

NS is instant
NS cools down faster
NS can incapacitate longer if enemy goes unharmed

CB provides a large damage bonus to incapicated targets
CB keeps enemies incapacitated for the full duration even if damaged
CB works on both organics and synthetics

I guess another CB advantage is that it can be curved, but I never used it that way (yet, it may be good with DCB).

I would say the biggest reason to use Cryo Blast over Neural Shock would be the frozen damage boost and the ability to work both organics and synthetics (for players that hate respeccing).  If you think about it, it is the Engineer's only way to boost his weapon damage on his own since the class is without it's own ammo power.  CB would be very useful to the Engineer player that does not like always bringing along a teammate with Squad Incendiary ammo on organic missions and Squad Disruptor ammo on synthetic missions (as in bring the ammo power for the type of health faced, not defense or no ammo power at all).  CB is a good finisher and a good crowd controller.

I would say the biggest reason to use Neural Shock over Cryo Blast would be the instant crowd control with long duration.  NS, especially NSw, can be used effectively as an instant stagger against protected organics as well.  If you already using a heavy hitting weapon with the strong ammo type against the health type of whatever enemy you are facing, you'll probably finish them off quick enough without CB's frozen damage boost.  However if you shoot an enemy that was pinned by NS but don't kill it, it will be freed from NS's effects early.  The NS Engineer would have to not mind respeccing, since you'll want to move those points to either Cryo Blast or AI Hacking for synethic missions.  NSw is a great crowd controller. 

At least, those are my experiences with the two powers on my Engineer.  I use NSw for the instant cast, short cooldown, and crowd control while still using the lvl 1 CB whenever I wanted the addtional damage boost on high health targets.

Very good summary.

I didn't noticed that harming enemies under the effect of NS were  'released' faster. I guess they ended up dead before on account of being shot at point blank range with a shotgun
Good to know.

I did have some problem with Krogan, specially when I was using NS rank 1. Those get freed fast without being shot at. On some occassions, I cast CB (rank 1)  to get more time, because they always fall to the ground and they don't get up instantly. All that adds to the duration of the effect.

Another thing, maybe silly, but if you don't like pausing the game, having 6 useful powers (I'm counting medigel) it's a problem mapping those and your squaddies'.

Anyway, I load a save and respec'd Shepard for a little experiment. Kept NS at rank 1 and evolve CB to full and passive to Mechanic for increased duration.

No ammo support from squaddies. Just Garrus and Kasumi for shield stripping.

Shotgun Engineer playing with ice

Dammit. Should have done this earlier. Enjoy!

Edit: spelling

Modifié par jwalker, 15 décembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[sinosleep]

Just popping in to update the OP and thank both all of the contributors who have added strategies and videos to this thread as well as all of those who have commented on those vids. Can't tell you guys how much all of us video makers appreciate feedback from you guys. There's nothing worse than putting work into a video and then feeling as though it wasn't good enough to get anyone talking.



So again, many thanks.

[Simbacca]

jwalker wrote...

Simbacca wrote...

My Engineer has Neural Shockwave as a bonus power (for organic missions) and here's what I had found.

When it comes to Neural Shock vs Cryo Blast:

NS is instant
NS cools down faster
NS can incapacitate longer if enemy goes unharmed

CB provides a large damage bonus to incapicated targets
CB keeps enemies incapacitated for the full duration even if damaged
CB works on both organics and synthetics

I guess another CB advantage is that it can be curved, but I never used it that way (yet, it may be good with DCB).

I would say the biggest reason to use Cryo Blast over Neural Shock would be the frozen damage boost and the ability to work both organics and synthetics (for players that hate respeccing).  If you think about it, it is the Engineer's only way to boost his weapon damage on his own since the class is without it's own ammo power.  CB would be very useful to the Engineer player that does not like always bringing along a teammate with Squad Incendiary ammo on organic missions and Squad Disruptor ammo on synthetic missions (as in bring the ammo power for the type of health faced, not defense or no ammo power at all).  CB is a good finisher and a good crowd controller.

I would say the biggest reason to use Neural Shock over Cryo Blast would be the instant crowd control with long duration.  NS, especially NSw, can be used effectively as an instant stagger against protected organics as well.  If you already using a heavy hitting weapon with the strong ammo type against the health type of whatever enemy you are facing, you'll probably finish them off quick enough without CB's frozen damage boost.  However if you shoot an enemy that was pinned by NS but don't kill it, it will be freed from NS's effects early.  The NS Engineer would have to not mind respeccing, since you'll want to move those points to either Cryo Blast or AI Hacking for synethic missions.  NSw is a great crowd controller. 

At least, those are my experiences with the two powers on my Engineer.  I use NSw for the instant cast, short cooldown, and crowd control while still using the lvl 1 CB whenever I wanted the addtional damage boost on high health targets.

Very good summary.

I didn't noticed that harming enemies under the effect of NS were  'released' faster. I guess they ended up dead before on account of being shot at point blank range with a shotgun
Good to know.

I did have some problem with Krogan, specially when I was using NS rank 1. Those get freed fast without being shot at. On some occassions, I cast CB (rank 1)  to get more time, because they always fall to the ground and they don't get up instantly. All that adds to the duration of the effect.

Another thing, maybe silly, but if you don't like pausing the game, having 6 useful powers (I'm counting medigel) it's a problem mapping those and your squaddies'.

Anyway, I load a save and respec'd Shepard for a little experiment. Kept NS at rank 1 and evolve CB to full and passive to Mechanic for increased duration.

No ammo support from squaddies. Just Garrus and Kasumi for shield stripping.

Shotgun Engineer playing with ice

Dammit. Should have done this earlier. Enjoy!

Edit: spelling

Great video, kudos for playing with ice far better with your Engineer than I ever could manage! 

On my Engineers, I always try to love Cryo Blast (Full or Deep) because I feel taking Neural Shock wastes the bonus slot on something one of the class's default skills can already do.  However no matter how many times I try, I always do better with NS's instant hit over CB's waiting for it to hit them, now waiting for them to freeze crap.  On top of that NS cools down faster.  In the end, I had to realize they actually are two different skills; NS instantly staggers/pins foes while CB eventually allows you to do more damage to them.  That's why my NSw/1pt CB setup works for me (for organic enemy missions). 

The best example I can give is Varren.  When I hit them with DCB while charging me (after their armor is already stripped), the still get to bite me before they freeze fully.  With NS, they stop dead in their tracks.  The same is true with some Krogan (both NS and CB occasionally glitch and don't work but man does it ever glitch a ton more with Krogan than any other enemy type. this can make 'waiting to see if CB freezes them' a lot more dangerous than 'instantly knowing whether NS pins them').

I love Cryo Ammo and Mordin's Cryo Blast, but I just can't get into Engie Shep's Cryo Blast.  Still it is awesome to see other players making great use of it!

Modifié par Simbacca, 16 décembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[jwalker]

Thanks Simbacca !



I agree. NS being instacast and short CD is hard to beat.

But the thing is, when I evolved it to Neural Shockwave didn't find it that great. Of course is better, but I'm wondering if is good enough to pass up Full or Deep Cryo blast.

I mainly used NS for stagger effect, wich is the same at rank 1 or 4, and as 'stay quiet while shoot your chest with my shotgun', which usually happens at point blank range. And if it wears off, you can cast it again.



You're right about the Varren. Not only the bite you, you get staggered as well. A Krogan charging is another example where NS beats CB, when it works, of course ;-)

[asfaltowy]

I have almost finished a playthrough with my cryo geth engineer (gps + gsb), still I have some doubts. I maxed put cryo (deep), passive and drone (attack), and levelled up gsb, incinerate and overload to 3, each. I use gps, which has some nice damage output.



Mainly I charge shields before the fight, then drop the drone, shoot, approach, use my squaddies and then try to freeze everyone. I just can't find the balance with stripping the defences. I want to get into action and GSB saved my azz many times when surrounded by enemies, but it has a painful recharge time (even with all recharge bonuses). On the other hand having full incinerate and overload (let's say area versions) makes me focus on stripping defences and staying in cover.



The squadmates are another riddle - Im not sure whether to bring DPS ones or the 'strippers' (yes, also Miranda, you know what i mean). With enough upgrades DPS can make enemies occupied while dealing decent damage to their defenses, but those who strip defenses provide better use of my tactics (freeze+shatter), but do not provide enough distraction.



Thoughts? Advice?

[sinosleep]

The good thing about the engineer is that you can tailor your playstyle to suit the strengths of whatever type of squadmates you choose to bring along. You can go around stripping defenses your self and making use of squad warp explosions or you can bring along defense strippers to make better use of powers like neural shock and cryo blast on your own character.

Or you can mix and match like I do when I bring Mordin along. His neural shock or cryoblast is great for when I am stripping defenses and his incineration blast is a great defense stripper as well as doing pretty damned good damage. So he mixes and matches, I mix and match, and then I'll bring along a dedicated defense stripper based on what kind of enemies I'll be facing on X mission.

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[jwalker]

Here, mainly using Shepard's fireball and Mordin's Full Cryo Blast. Almost an exploit.
Engie has it really easy here.

As for the shotgun, a bit more of Claymoring, but only when some husk gets too close, or to kill the Scion in a more satisfying way.

Reaper IFF 1/3

[Ahglock]

jwalker wrote...

Here, mainly using Shepard's fireball and Mordin's Full Cryo Blast. Almost an exploit.
Engie has it really easy here.

As for the shotgun, a bit more of Claymoring, but only when some husk gets too close, or to kill the Scion in a more satisfying way.

Reaper IFF 1/3

I like.  I always forget how fast mordin's cryo regens, for that level of CC it is fast on a companion.

Also it makes me rethink how I do that level.  At the end part there, I usually run in and focus on the Scion while dodging the husks like mad.  Popping each wave slowly like that is much smarter.  I had always gone in too far and popped everything, I did not know you could pop the first group finish it then get second gorup finish it then get Scion on its own. 

[jwalker]

To be perfectly honest, I didn't know about Mordin's cryo CD at level 4 until the release of LotSB *slaps self*.

Before that, always maxed out Incineration blast and then his passive, which at that point makes impossible to max out cryo due to the mandatory skill point on Neural Shock.
Mordin's Cryo at level 4 has the best CD for a companion. Not even Jack or Samara with their 25% passive bonus can match it.

BTW, did you notice Shepard's NS failing twice on the same husk at 0:18 and then at 0:21 ? Damn.

Yeah, if you don't want additional waves of husks, you have to careful where you step or where you cast the drone, because the little fella can trigger spawn points just like Shepard, and that could be trouble....

Modifié par jwalker, 03 janvier 2011 - 11:20 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Excellent husk carnage! Reaper IFF is oddly one of my favorite missions, just pure mindless zombie killing. I'm wondering, can you assign Grunt's Fortification on the keyboard? When I assigned it on my D-pad on the Xbox, it doesn't activate when I press it. It's a shame since I would've liked to spec Grunt as a pure tank and send him right into the middle of the battlefield with his Claymore.

[SonofMacPhisto]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Excellent husk carnage! Reaper IFF is oddly one of my favorite missions, just pure mindless zombie killing. I'm wondering, can you assign Grunt's Fortification on the keyboard? When I assigned it on my D-pad on the Xbox, it doesn't activate when I press it. It's a shame since I would've liked to spec Grunt as a pure tank and send him right into the middle of the battlefield with his Claymore.

If I remember correctly, on the XBOX you must target an enemy for Grunt to activiate, just like casting a power.  That's hardly a good way to do it though, so I usually pull up the power wheel.

[jwalker]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Excellent husk carnage! Reaper IFF is oddly one of my favorite missions, just pure mindless zombie killing. I'm wondering, can you assign Grunt's Fortification on the keyboard? When I assigned it on my D-pad on the Xbox, it doesn't activate when I press it. It's a shame since I would've liked to spec Grunt as a pure tank and send him right into the middle of the battlefield with his Claymore.

Thanks !

Yes, you can. I mean, I remember doing something like that with Legion, activating his shield first and then rushing into trouble.

And yeah, this is one of my fave missions too... killing zombies in the future or **** zombies in the past never gets old

edit: wow... can't type naz¡...

Modifié par jwalker, 04 janvier 2011 - 01:26 .

[Bozorgmehr]

jwalker wrote...

Here, mainly using Shepard's fireball and Mordin's Full Cryo Blast. Almost an exploit.
Engie has it really easy here.

As for the shotgun, a bit more of Claymoring, but only when some husk gets too close, or to kill the Scion in a more satisfying way.

Reaper IFF 1/3

Nice vid, though I felt a bit sorry for the Claymore, you only used it in emergencies and on Scion - I reckon I saw it shed some tears occasionall

Damn Incinerate and Cryo Blast! They fooled Grunt a couple of times too:
Grunt - "Now your death!"
Mordin and Shep - ":P"

[Tony Gunslinger]

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Excellent husk carnage! Reaper IFF is oddly one of my favorite missions, just pure mindless zombie killing. I'm wondering, can you assign Grunt's Fortification on the keyboard? When I assigned it on my D-pad on the Xbox, it doesn't activate when I press it. It's a shame since I would've liked to spec Grunt as a pure tank and send him right into the middle of the battlefield with his Claymore.

If I remember correctly, on the XBOX you must target an enemy for Grunt to activiate, just like casting a power.  That's hardly a good way to do it though, so I usually pull up the power wheel.

I have tried that before on Grunt... hotkeyed Fort, selected an enemy and pressed D-pad, but he didn't use any powers. I think it does work on Legion, however. Very puzzling.

[jwalker]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

[...]

Nice vid, though I felt a bit sorry for the Claymore, you only used it in emergencies and on Scion - I reckon I saw it shed some tears occasionall

Damn Incinerate and Cryo Blast! They fooled Grunt a couple of times too:
Grunt - "Now your death!"
Mordin and Shep - ":P"

Yeah, I know. Didn't make most of the Claymore there. Probably a more skilled player might just run into the mayhem oneshoting husks left and right, using Incinaration + Cryo combo only for emergencies. I don't think I can do that

Anyway, I wanted to show the Engie has a very smooth run using drones and squaddies.  No stressful moments being overrun by zombies !


All props to sinosleep, showing Grunt as a secondary drone a while back.

Reapper IFF 2/3

Enjoy!

Modifié par jwalker, 05 janvier 2011 - 01:25 .

[Sparrow44]

jwalker wrote...

Yeah, I know. Didn't make most of the Claymore there. Probably a more skilled player might just run into the mayhem oneshoting husks left and right, using Incinaration + Cryo combo only for emergencies. I don't think I can do that

Anyway, I wanted to show the Engie has a very smooth run using drones and squaddies.  No stressful moments being overrun by zombies !

All props to sinosleep, showing Grunt as a secondary drone a while back.

Reapper IFF 2/3

Enjoy!

Wow that looked like the easiest run of the Reaper IFF I've seen so far, very nice jwalker! I'm sure part 3 will continue to be awesome.

And yeah Grunt is very good on missions like this, what weapon was Grunt using?

Didn't know about  Grunt's Fortification not responding to hotkeys although something I noticed on Xbox 360. If you selected left/right on the D-pad for Grunt to attack a target, even if you've not hotkeyed it to those buttons he will always use Concussive Shot on the target, something I thought I would share.

Anyone else notice this with Grunt?

[Ahglock]

I almost felt bad for the scions. It is like they don't know what to do when confronted with a drone.

[jwalker]

Thanks Sparrow!

Hehe...Grunt is using the Avenger. I would have gave him the Vindicator, but I forgot to pick it up in Garrus' RM

I tend to give my squaddies burst weapons. They're great with those. In part 1/3 you can clearly see Grunt and Mordin firing with perfect accuracy (incendiary ammo helps showing that). They always hit.

I play on PC. But yes, when you order a squaddie to attack some target they always use their powers if available (I'm not sure if they do it anyways when is not 'right' for that layer of protection), even with "squad power usage" off, so I'm careful of doing so If I want to cast them myself

Modifié par jwalker, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:59 .

[Sparrow44]

jwalker wrote...

I play on PC. But yes, when you order a squaddie to attack some target they always use their powers if available (I'm not sure if they do it anyways when is not 'right' for that layer of protection), even with "squad power usage" off, so I'm careful of doing so If I want to cast them myself

Yeah think it may due to Grunt having only one 'active' power due to Incendiary and Fortification being passive. Hah that said maybe you should give Shep's Claymore to Grunt as it's fun watching Grunt destroy stuff with it.

[Bozorgmehr]

jwalker wrote...

Yeah, I know. Didn't make most of the Claymore there. Probably a more skilled player might just run into the mayhem oneshoting husks left and right, using Incinaration + Cryo combo only for emergencies. I don't think I can do that

One-shotting husks with Claymore isn't hard, you shouldn't have problems doing just that - the way you're playing

Anyway, I wanted to show the Engie has a very smooth run using drones and squaddies.  No stressful moments being overrun by zombies !

All props to sinosleep, showing Grunt as a secondary drone a while back.

Reapper IFF 2/3

Enjoy!

Excellent use of powers, you nailed 6 husks with just one Incinerate-Cryo Blast combo! This vids clearly shows proper tactics, positioning and (squadmate) powers can trivalize missions.

[jwalker]

Thanks for you kind words, Boz !

Regarding the Claymore, TBH, I think I'm still at training school
So, given I can't be apart from my Vanguard, I reloaded the DCS mission and took the Krogan shotgun.... slowly and gradually getting better with each oneshoted foe, but still messing up....

Anyway, from a previuos run in the Reaper IFF (that I didn't particularly like) I got this footage that I wasn't going to waste....
It doesn't happen often, so Grunt charging Scion deserves a vid

Also, thanks to my friend @jlb524 for pointing me into the right direction with the music for this little experiment. Although choosing a song from a compilation with 101 tracks, was not so easy

[Morzak]

I just wanna say thanks to all the Video makers in this thread, inspired me to take out my engi again and it is a blast even without the SG (still have 1 mission to do before the Collector ship and i'm not sure which one to do.).



I have to say i was surprised that aggressive play makes some encounters easier then just staying behind Cover. Enemies seem to retreat and not fire at you as opposed when you stay at midrange everyone shoots at you and the shields pop in no time.



Sadly i don't have much time for the game because of upcoming exams but a mission or so per day has to fit in



Probably will never reach the level of skill displayed in those vids but still it's fun

[ezrafetch]

So I just started an Engineer for the first real time, and I'm simply amazed. I've only died once outside of the game bugging out. Engineer+Mordin = death to all. With Cryo Blasts and Incinerates flying around, it's hilarious. I can just run in, strip defenses quickly with Drone+Overload+Squaddie Warp (if need be) and then go to town with tons of crowd control. Not exactly the brute power I'm used to with me Widow Soldier but it's much, much more hilarious. I'll most definitely pick up the shotty on the DCS and have even more fun.

For normal missions I'd planned Attack Drone, Incineration Blast, Deep Cryo, Demolisher, Area Overload, and 1pt Neural Shock. Geth missions sub out Neural Shock and Incineration Blast for super-AI Hacking and 1pt Incinerate. Or just sub out Incinerate period for Area Drain, which would just be obnoxious.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 07 janvier 2011 - 05:04 .

[Bozorgmehr]

jwalker wrote...

Thanks for you kind words, Boz !

Regarding the Claymore, TBH, I think I'm still at training school
So, given I can't be apart from my Vanguard, I reloaded the DCS mission and took the Krogan shotgun.... slowly and gradually getting better with each oneshoted foe, but still messing up....

Anyway, from a previuos run in the Reaper IFF (that I didn't particularly like) I got this footage that I wasn't going to waste....
It doesn't happen often, so Grunt charging Scion deserves a vid

Also, thanks to my friend @jlb524 for pointing me into the right direction with the music for this little experiment. Although choosing a song from a compilation with 101 tracks, was not so easy

Ha ha, It's awesome watching Grunt do his thing on Scion

He never done it for me - the fool usually charges already doomed husks.

[Bozorgmehr]

ezrafetch wrote...

For normal missions I'd planned Attack Drone, Incineration Blast, Deep Cryo, Demolisher, Area Overload, and 1pt Neural Shock. Geth missions sub out Neural Shock and Incineration Blast for super-AI Hacking and 1pt Incinerate. Or just sub out Incinerate period for Area Drain, which would just be obnoxious.

AI Hacking (Improved is my favorite) is very effective on all mission involving Mechs like Loki & Fenris. Hacking one will win the fight for you - all nearby enemies (and Loki are usually not alone) will focus on hacked target. You can literally kill at will (and you've got drones for back up/emergencies). Geth are Geth - practice for the Engineer