79 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

brfritos wrote...
And the base damage of the Shuriken is actually higher than the Tempest.

Base damage per shot is, but the Tempest's burst has more shots in it on a squadmate, and with their accuracy they all usually hit. Squadmates do more damage with the Tempest, but take more damage as well.

[brfritos]

Optimystic_X wrote...

brfritos wrote...
And the base damage of the Shuriken is actually higher than the Tempest.

Base damage per shot is, but the Tempest's burst has more shots in it on a squadmate, and with their accuracy they all usually hit. Squadmates do more damage with the Tempest, but take more damage as well.

Wich really count on insanity, isn't?

One thing that really make me mad is that you put your squad in cover and they stay there, not matter what.
But then someone line up a few good shots - or worse, they are hitted by a rocket - and came out of cover.
What did they do?
They still continue out of cover, like never happened!

Or they simple crouch behind something, wich means they will shot their cover, instead of the enemy.

Bioware AI at work!

[skcih-deraj]

The katana is the only shotgun I use (when playing my vanguard.)



I don't really care for the other shot guns, but if I'm using my soldier or infiltrator I have them use the eviscrator.

[Fiery Phoenix]

JaegerBane wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

The Katana is definitely one of the better shotguns, in my opinion. It has a large ammo capacity (for a shotgun), powerful, easy to use and works for tanking. I use it quite often, along with the Scimitar. Squadmates are good with it, too.

I'm surprised to see someone voting for the Katana on the basis of ammo capacity. It's not like it's enough to make that much difference and all it's other characteristics are utterly meh.

"For a shotgun", I said. Relative difference. Not much, but it's there.

[Chugster]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

For that matter, anyone use the Mantis?

I use it on my soldier, with the right ammo power and AR its a 1 hit kill on normal mobs with a headshot...although since ive swaped the models around i start with the Viper now

Modifié par Chugster, 25 septembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[AdamNW]

I got rid of that as soon as I could.

[Dasher10]

Yeah, again, I can only see it being used on a Vanguard Shepard. Soldiers perform better with the Scimitar or GPS, and if chosen as a bonus talent, Sentinels perform okay with it but are better with the evi or scimitar, adepts are better with the GPS, Engineers are better with the GPS and Infiltrators are better with the evi. It's kind of just there. It's not terrible like the Shuriken, but it's overlooked for a reason. Maybe if it had more knockback force, I'd use it.



Still, the game needs a patch to make the Katana and Shuriken actually usable again.

[OniGanon]

Actually, Evi is bad on Infiltrator unless you are awesome and uber and never miss, or you play without squadmates. The slow ROF and the low shots per clip makes it very very unforgiving to miss on a class that makes it very easy to miss.

[PsyrenY]

GPS is the best on Infiltrator, as you combine the heavy alpha strike damage of the charged shot with a much higher accuracy. You only get one shot off while invisible so it's best as a big one.

[9thLich]

Actually you can get off two, if you charge the GPS before you cloak, as a charged shot doesn't end cloak prematurely.

[PsyrenY]

9thLich wrote...

Actually you can get off two, if you charge the GPS before you cloak, as a charged shot doesn't end cloak prematurely.

Yes, but starting a charge does; so you can get off a Claymore shot + Katana shot while cloaked, but not double Claymore.

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

All the other base shotguns come with additional penalties. The Scimitar is fast, but damage is a bit on the light side and best used as a defense stripper for squadmate biotics. The Eviscerator is powerful, but it's slow, its damage/ammo per clip is low, and god help you if you miss a shot. The Katana has no additional drawback.

Obviously a weapon that emphasises spike damage like the Evis does come with the proviso that you don't miss too often - in that regard the Katana has some minor advantage in that it can fire more often. However, if that kind of playstyle is your thing then the Scimitar would be a far better choice in practically every way.

That's the biggest problem the Katana has - it's prime advantage is the fact that it doesn't exclusively favour any particular style, and can be used in a pinch for any style. As an isolated characteristic that's fine and dandy, but when considered in the context that shotguns are very niche weapons in of themselves, it begs the question what purpose a shotgun that doesn't have a specialty serves. Add the GPS to the situation which essentially does everything the Katana does, only with a longer range, and it becomes pointless.

The Katana and Eviscerator perform pretty similarly. You talk as if there is a massive damage difference here. The Katana does roughly 75% the damage of the Evi per shot, y'know.

75% the damage with no modifier vs armour and half the range. In a weapon type that packs much of it's damage into single shots, 25% less damage per shot at short range and up to 50% less further than that is quite a major reduction.

I mean, you talk as if the clip size on the Evis is tiny in comparison. It's two extra shots. You're not going to pull off much with that that you couldn't with the Evis.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 26 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[JaegerBane]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

The Katana is definitely one of the better shotguns, in my opinion. It has a large ammo capacity (for a shotgun), powerful, easy to use and works for tanking. I use it quite often, along with the Scimitar. Squadmates are good with it, too.

I'm surprised to see someone voting for the Katana on the basis of ammo capacity. It's not like it's enough to make that much difference and all it's other characteristics are utterly meh.

"For a shotgun", I said. Relative difference. Not much, but it's there.

I wasn't debating whether the difference existed. I was debating whether the difference actually translated into anything noticeble in-game.

[implodinggoat]

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

For that matter, anyone use the Mantis, shuriken and predator?

The Mantis is still the only one shot one kill sniper rifle in the game if you don't have access to the Widow. So it's not totally worthless although I'd prefer it if they balanced out the guns by giving the Mantis more ammo than the Widow not less.  Still the Viper completely outclasses the Mantis in terms of damage output and ammo conservation (I tend to think the Viper has too much ammo), so the Mantis is pretty worthless unless you really want a one shot one kill Sniper Rifle and you can't get your hands on the Widow.

The Shuriken is worthless if you have access to the Locust, though its still a decent weapon if you don't.  That said I really think the Shuriken should be equippable in the same slot as the heavy pistol since I feel the heavy pistol slot should be turned into a more versatile sidearm slot that gives you a weaker version of weapon classes you may not have access to.  In the case of the Shuriken it's high ammo limit would make it a really useful compliment to a high accuraccy low ammo Assault Rifle like the Vindicator or Mattock.

The Predator is fun to use; but it doesn't have enough ammo to be a good compliment to a low ammo assault rifle and it simply can't lay down damage at a rate that can compete with the Locust which in contrast to the Predator has too much ammo considering its high accuraccy and power.

The Katana:  Is utterly worthless, like all shotguns other than the Eviscerator and the Geth Shotty its range is too damn short.  As a close quarters weapon it can't touch the Eviscerator which has both superior range and higher damage output with the same stopping power. It does have superior stopping power to the Geth Shotgun; but it can't hit at range like the Geth Shotty, and it can't lay down a single devestating hit that can compete with the Geth Shotty's charged shot.  At close range its rate of fire is a little higher than the Eviscerator; but if you're going that route you'd be much better off with the Scimitar.  There is simply no situation where the Katana has any advantage over the other weapons.

[Kronner]

Predator is not supposed to be AR-lite. It is still a heavy pistol = anti armor weapon. I really started to like it recently.

Modifié par Kronner, 27 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[JaegerBane]

implodinggoat wrote...
The Mantis is still the only one shot one kill sniper rifle in the game if you don't have access to the Widow. So it's not totally worthless although I'd prefer it if they balanced out the guns by giving the Mantis more ammo than the Widow not less.  Still the Viper completely outclasses the Mantis in terms of damage output and ammo conservation (I tend to think the Viper has too much ammo), so the Mantis is pretty worthless unless you really want a one shot one kill Sniper Rifle and you can't get your hands on the Widow.

Agreed. The only real reason to use the Mantis is for style - if you like the whole one-shot-kill sniping method and can't get access to the Widow. For practically any objective reason the Viper is a better choice. It's a significantly more powerful and flexible weapon.

That said, I personally think they should have just done away with class exclusive weapons and just given the three collector ship weapons as part of having the relevant training - you'd just pick em' up in the sam way you do with the Vindi or the Carnifex.

The Shuriken is worthless if you have access to the Locust, though its still a decent weapon if you don't.  That said I really think the Shuriken should be equippable in the same slot as the heavy pistol since I feel the heavy pistol slot should be turned into a more versatile sidearm slot that gives you a weaker version of weapon classes you may not have access to.  In the case of the Shuriken it's high ammo limit would make it a really useful compliment to a high accuraccy low ammo Assault Rifle like the Vindicator or Mattock.

I do think seperating heavy and auto pistols into two different slots wasn't the best idea. I can see what they were going for in terms of anti-shield and anti-armour choices but ultimately, I'm not convinced heavy pistols have enough utility to justify being in their own type. The Predator, however, is the least offender in that group - it's by far the most flexible of the HPs and is a legitimate choice for all classes. The Phalanx is a one-handed sniper rifle with all the postives and negatives that brings and the Carnifex is like a cut-down battle rifle.

Personally, I think every class should have been given a pistol and an assault rifle slot. There was no point giving only soldiers ARs and everyone else SMGs - particulalrly not when we have the weird situation in the game where the best true assault rifle in the game is actually an SMG (Locust).

The Predator is fun to use; but it doesn't have enough ammo to be a good compliment to a low ammo assault rifle and it simply can't lay down damage at a rate that can compete with the Locust which in contrast to the Predator has too much ammo considering its high accuraccy and power.

As I say, I think you're missing the point behind the Predator. I don't really understand why you'd claim the Locust has 'too much ammo', as it's clearly intended to be a standard weapon for non-soldier classes. It's firepower and accuracy are already counterbalanced by it's relatively small clip. It's still outclassed in damage by the Vindi and Mattock.

The Katana:  Is utterly worthless, like all shotguns other than the Eviscerator and the Geth Shotty its range is too damn short.  As a close quarters weapon it can't touch the Eviscerator which has both superior range and higher damage output with the same stopping power. It does have superior stopping power to the Geth Shotgun; but it can't hit at range like the Geth Shotty, and it can't lay down a single devestating hit that can compete with the Geth Shotty's charged shot.  At close range its rate of fire is a little higher than the Eviscerator; but if you're going that route you'd be much better off with the Scimitar.  There is simply no situation where the Katana has any advantage over the other weapons.

I wouldn't classify either the Scimitar or the Claymore as being 'utterly worthless'. With or without the reload trick, the Claymore does more burst damage than any other shotty barring the GPS, and it does it far more reliably than the GPS (often a Vanguard can't really be messing around charging up shots when he's zooming all over). The Scimitar's DPS is higher than any other shotgun and can reliably stagger any human-sized enemy to the extent it qualifies as crowd control. Both are good choices.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 27 septembre 2010 - 11:11 .

[swn32]

Claymore is THE shotgun for a vanguard. At close range it has the highest DPS as well as the 2nd highest single shot damage. At the range which vanguards engage their targets, no other shotgun even comes close.

Katana on the other hand is a useless shotgun for any class any build. There is no reason anyone should be using it.

Modifié par swn32, 27 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[PsyrenY]

swn32 wrote...

Claymore is THE shotgun for a vanguard. At close range it has the highest DPS as well as the 2nd highest single shot damage. At the range which vanguards engage their targets, no other shotgun even comes close.

The Claymore is indeed great on a Vanguard; The problem is that it means giving up Mattock/Viper.

[Kronner]

I would not call Katana useless, it is very efficient weapon and when you get used to it, the difference between Katana and other shotguns is very small against most enemies. (assuming close combat of course).

As for giving up SR/AR for the Claymore, I honestly do not see any benefit in taking AR or SR since there are very few unchargeable enemies and Locust and heavy weapons are more than good enough for that, but I am very biased towards Claymore (for me it is the best shotty by a landslide) so someone else may prefer Viper or Mattock of course.

Modifié par Kronner, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
As for giving up SR/AR for the Claymore, I honestly do not see any benefit in taking AR or SR since there are very few unchargeable enemies and Locust and heavy weapons are more than good enough for that, but I am very biased towards Claymore (for me it is the best shotty by a landslide) so someone else may prefer Viper or Mattock of course.

Yeah. Both the Viper and the Mattock offer a significant boost to the Vanguard in terms of long range fighting... but considering any Vanguard can get a Locust and a Phalanx, picking a Viper or Mattock is less a matter of effectiveness and more a matter of taste.

Personally my preferred shotty on a Vanguard is the Evis, but that's partially influenced by the fact that the Viper is probably my fave weapon in the game 

[swn32]

The Geth plasma shotgun makes the Katana useless. It has a similar fire rate but does more damage and has more range, plus the ability to fire a chargeshot and do a quick refire.

That's one major issue with the firepower pack. Instead of adding weapons, they replaced weapons (except for phalanx which is well balanced). Katana and vindicator have been rendered useless.

Modifié par swn32, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[cruc1al]

swn32 wrote...

Claymore is THE shotgun for a vanguard. At close range it has the highest DPS as well as the 2nd highest single shot damage. At the range which vanguards engage their targets, no other shotgun even comes close.

Katana on the other hand is a useless shotgun for any class any build. There is no reason anyone should be using it.

Shotgun's aren't about DPS. They're about damage per shot + time taken to deal with groups of enemies safely. I prefer Katana with my vanguards. (Though I haven't played one with GPS). It has the perfect balance of damage, fire rate and clip size. Range is a non-issue. Given that as a Vanguard you'll be using Incendiary or Cryo, standard shielded enemies are more easily dealt with with the Katana than Claymore (of course, if you abuse the reload bug then that's your business). At point blank range, Katana +cryo will freeze standard enemis most of the time, making them very easy to deal with. You can even go for Improved cryo and freeze 3-4 enemies, then melee them to shrapnels. Tougher enemies can be locked down in shot-melee-shot cycles. Also, the ammo capacity and fire rate of Katana mean that one miss is less of an issue than with Claymore.

Modifié par cruc1al, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Kronner]

cruc1al wrote...

Shotgun's aren't about DPS. They're about damage per shot + time taken to deal with groups of enemies safely. I prefer Katana with my vanguards. (Though I haven't played one with GPS). It has the perfect balance of damage, fire rate and clip size. Range is a non-issue. Given that as a Vanguard you'll be using Incendiary or Cryo, standard shielded enemies are more easily dealt with with the Katana than Claymore (of course, if you abuse the reload bug then that's your business). At point blank range, Katana +cryo will freeze standard enemis most of the time, making them very easy to deal with. You can even go for Improved cryo and freeze 3-4 enemies, then melee them to shrapnels. Tougher enemies can be locked down in shot-melee-shot cycles. Also, the ammo capacity and fire rate of Katana mean that one miss is less of an issue than with Claymore.

If you do not perform reload trick (cancel) you are only gimping yourself. It is not a bug, glitch or cheat.
Quoting Christina Norman:The reload trick is by design. It isn't a glitch. I know because I put it in on purpose! .

Modifié par Kronner, 27 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[cruc1al]

Kronner wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Shotgun's aren't about DPS. They're about damage per shot + time taken to deal with groups of enemies safely. I prefer Katana with my vanguards. (Though I haven't played one with GPS). It has the perfect balance of damage, fire rate and clip size. Range is a non-issue. Given that as a Vanguard you'll be using Incendiary or Cryo, standard shielded enemies are more easily dealt with with the Katana than Claymore (of course, if you abuse the reload bug then that's your business). At point blank range, Katana +cryo will freeze standard enemis most of the time, making them very easy to deal with. You can even go for Improved cryo and freeze 3-4 enemies, then melee them to shrapnels. Tougher enemies can be locked down in shot-melee-shot cycles. Also, the ammo capacity and fire rate of Katana mean that one miss is less of an issue than with Claymore.

If you do not perform reload trick (cancel) you are only gimping yourself. It is not a bug, glitch or cheat.
Quoting Christina Norman:The reload trick is by design. It isn't a glitch. I know because I put it in on purpose! .

I don't care if Christina Norman herself designed it. To me, it's a glitch and it degrades the game play experience. It unnecessarily takes away from realism. I don't mind if you like to cancel animations though; we are talking about a single player game, after all.

If someone recommends me to use Vindicator over Avenger - an obvious choice to most - I can go ahead and mod my coalesced.ini to make Avenger more powerful than Vindicator; regardless of what Christina Norman says.

Modifié par cruc1al, 27 septembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[sinosleep]

I'd take this discussion to PM, being as anything reload canceling related seems to get threads locked.