218 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike Laidlaw]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So if the more responsive combat means less chasing, I guess that sounds good. But on the flip side, how does it work if I pause, right click an enemy thats far away with my 2 handed warrior to attack, and then unpause? Obviously things are supposed to be "press button and somthing awesome happens." So does that mean when I unpause after clicking on an enemy to attack, Hawke will do some crazy anime style leap across the map so that he can attack the enemy instantly?

No, presuming you're playing on PC, or issuing it as an order via radial menu, your character will run towards the foe until they reach a point close enough to do what we call a closing attack. In the case of a two-handed sword, this is a fast dash forward, coupled with a slash of the blade. This closing attack will put you into basic melee range, which means you may either atack, or start using your talents. Your call.

That actually doesn't sound terrible. Thanks for the detailed info Mike.

Not a problem.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sound familiar? If you're thinking "Origins," you'd be pretty close. It's just faster, and more punchy.

So the characters now move at unrealistic speeds?

It seems a much smaller contingent of people are now concerned that their rogue might actually be that acrobatic.

The level of acrobatics in the Sacred Ashes trailer (which I never watched until after I'vd finished DAO for fear of spoilers) was incredibly silly.

That is where the sense of timing, and the feeling of "mashing" buttons comes from.

that sense of timing also needs to be avoided.  That sense of timing was why I uninstalled The Witcher after 10 minutes of play.

Sylv, let's be honest here, buddy. From what I can tell, you're not going to like a lot about DA2. There's lots you might like, but your rigidly-defined standards of what game I should be making are wildly divergent from the game I am making. And you know? I'm pretty damn sure neither one of us is budging.

Not to say the game you want to play wouldn't be good. It might. I have copies of some classic RPGs on a shelf 10 feet from me that suggests I have as much a taste for the old school as you do, but that's not the game I'm making.

So lets just agree to disagree and we can all get along. Or, I suppose, you can wander in and type snarky one-liners if that makes you happy. Free forum!

Honestly Mike, if you could just assure the PC folk that the PC version won't be too far a stretch from Origins and won't feel "consolized" like alot of past cross platform titles where the PC isn't the lead sku (Oblivion comes instantly to mind) I know it would set my mind at ease at least.

[Mike Laidlaw]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Honestly Mike, if you could just assure the PC folk that the PC version won't be too far a stretch from Origins and won't feel "consolized" like alot of past cross platform titles where the PC isn't the lead sku (Oblivion comes instantly to mind) I know it would set my mind at ease at least.

*Chuckles* I'm running out of ways to try. I'll give it one more shot:

• PC gets its own GUI
• PC gets its own interface (right click to attack = auto attack, not pressing repeatedly)
• PC drags and drops in stores and inventory, or double clicks to do things. No faux menubuttonthing

I'm not sure what else to say. It's a custom interface for PC, and custom interface for consoles, both are similar to the interfaces we rolled out in Origins. Why? Because people liked them.

As to how it feels in terms of stretching away from Origins? That's kind of a personal thing. The player VO is a sticking point for some. Not being the warden is a sticking point for others. Hearing that the combat is faster is a sticking point for still more. So will it be different? Yep.

Do I think it still feels like I'm playing a Dragon Age game when I slap spacebar to pause and line up a fireball with Bethany because Hawke just stunned a bunch of guys in a cluster? Hell yes.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Honestly Mike, if you could just assure the PC folk that the PC version won't be too far a stretch from Origins and won't feel "consolized" like alot of past cross platform titles where the PC isn't the lead sku (Oblivion comes instantly to mind) I know it would set my mind at ease at least.

*Chuckles* I'm running out of ways to try. I'll give it one more shot:

• PC gets its own GUI
• PC gets its own interface (right click to attack = auto attack, not pressing repeatedly)
• PC drags and drops in stores and inventory, or double clicks to do things. No faux menubuttonthing

I'm not sure what else to say. It's a custom interface for PC, and custom interface for consoles, both are similar to the interfaces we rolled out in Origins. Why? Because people liked them.

As to how it feels in terms of stretching away from Origins? That's kind of a personal thing. The player VO is a sticking point for some. Not being the warden is a sticking point for others. Hearing that the combat is faster is a sticking point for still more. So will it be different? Yep.

Do I think it still feels like I'm playing a Dragon Age game when I slap spacebar to pause and line up a fireball with Bethany because Hawke just stunned a bunch of guys in a cluster? Hell yes.

[*]I can deal with combat being faster, its the other stuff that had me worried, though the VO thing still has me worried if its handled much like it is in ME2 with paraphrasing not at all matching what is actually spoken. But thats not going to change no matter how much I complain about it at this point anyway. Good to know the PC sku has its own GUI and won't be a click fest ala The Witcher or Diablo. Thanks again for replying.

[Iberius]

So I don't know if it was answered earlier, but in Origins if you attack an enemy, sometimes they will continue on there path to take out one of your other party members even though you repeatedly hit them. They would just ignore your character. I'm not asking about the "catching up to said hurlock" so much as will the enemies actually act as if you just lopped their arm off and attack you back in DA:2?

Lol I guess I should assume they will, otherwise, there would be no need to catch up to them to save you party member

Modifié par Iberius, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:33 .

[DarthCaine]

About the paraphrasing of dialogue options, I think devs should take a look at this thread:

http://social.biowar...index/3206226/1

I think it could be easily implemented and keep everybody happy

Modifié par DarthCaine, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Pritos]

Strangely people enjoy to be able to criticize anything for whatever reason. So when someone gives a nice explanation with convincing arguments about the "thing" being target of critics, those that are criticizing just pretend they didn't see such explanation.

[SafetyShattered]

Iberius wrote...

So I don't know if it was answered earlier, but in Origins if you attack an enemy, sometimes they will continue on there path to take out one of your other party members even though you repeatedly hit them. They would just ignore your character. I'm not asking about the "catching up to them" so much as will the enemies actually act as if you just lopped their arm and attack you back in DA:2?

I had the exact same issue. I mean it ticked me off so much when one of my party members was close to dying then I moved my character up to get there attention. I went to attack them and they didn't even bother to fight back. This should definately be fixed in DA2!

[Iberius]

Shadowfang12 wrote...

Iberius wrote...

So I don't know if it was answered earlier, but in Origins if you attack an enemy, sometimes they will continue on there path to take out one of your other party members even though you repeatedly hit them. They would just ignore your character. I'm not asking about the "catching up to them" so much as will the enemies actually act as if you just lopped their arm and attack you back in DA:2?

I had the exact same issue. I mean it ticked me off so much when one of my party members was close to dying then I moved my character up to get there attention. I went to attack them and they didn't even bother to fight back. This should definately be fixed in DA2!

I'm betting the enemies will be much more responsive to your walloping them upside the head with a warhammer. There's no point to allow you character to catch up to the enemy if you can't get their attention. I'm kind of answering my own question but oh well 

Modifié par Iberius, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[WilliamShatner]

What about re-assurances to CONSOLE players that the console version of the game won't be "consolized" and will feature the same features and gameplay of the PC version???

[awwnuts07]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


I've comment on this before, but I'll note it again. I see "hack and slash" or "brawlers" or "action games" as being defined by the way you engage with combat, insofar as the idea of the "combo" is king. Dante's Inferno or Ninja Gaiden, for instance, has more than 30 combos you can pull off by pressing things like XXX, XYX, AYYXXY and so on. That is where the sense of timing, and the feeling of "mashing" buttons comes from. Though skilled players of either game will tell you it's far from a mash. Mashing is for novices.

Dragon Age, for all you you press the A or X button (Xbox and PS3 respectively) to attack does not require awareness of extensive combos. There is no concept of light attack, heavy attack, aerial attack, etc. Instead, our focus is on abilities, which you acquire through leveling up, and which you can then upgrade, and which require stamina or mana to activate. The gameplay, then is more strategic, in that you have to manage resources (Kratos and Ryu never get tired). It's also more tactical, in that you have to make equipment choices, ability choices and party-composition choices well in advance of the combat, requiring a mix of planning and of-the-moment thinking.

Sound familiar? If you're thinking "Origins," you'd be pretty close. It's just faster, and more punchy.

So, it's probably best to think of the improvements to DA's combat as focusing on pace, responsiveness and improved visualizations. I remember people ranting about how it wasn't good that the Sacred Ashes trailer showed Leliana being acrobatic when she couldn't be acrobatic in the game. Fair complaint! And as a rogue player, one I specifically set out to rectify with the help of my excellent combat team.

It seems a much smaller contingent of people are now concerned that their rogue might actually be that acrobatic.Probably out of fear that jumping must inherently mean we've fundamentally changed the game. Well, we have, but in very aesthetic ways. Hopefully the above explanation relieves some concerns.

Thank you, Mr. Laidlaw for that awesome bit of info. I am a hardcore Ninja Gaiden fan, but the only part of Ninja Gaiden I want in a Dragon Age game would be the flashy animations (something that was seriously missing in DA:O). And I happen to be getting my wish! This is officially my happy day!

Modifié par awwnuts07, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[nhsk]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

But on the consoles...it sounds sort of hack and slash-ish.

I can see how it would sound that way, but the only functional difference between the two is that you press-to-attack on console and auto-attack on PC. I don't think pressing a button to swing your sword inherently makes for a hack and slash game.

Of course, as Brock points out, often, until there's gameplay footage out there for the public to consume there is no way to tell.
I could be lying to you. About everything. Forever.

I'm hoping that companions that you don't control, on consoles, just don't stand there?

[nhsk]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That sense of timing was why I uninstalled The Witcher after 10 minutes of play.

+1 gazillion approval!

[Wyndham711]

It's sad how ready some people are to disregard Sylvius' statements on this (among many other things). One doesn't have to agree with everything he's saying to see that he does have a point worth considering. Rarely do I see such well reasoned arguments on the Internet.

[aaniadyen]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Sound familiar? If you're thinking "Origins," you'd be pretty close. It's just faster, and more punchy.

So the characters now move at unrealistic speeds?

It seems a much smaller contingent of people are now concerned that their rogue might actually be that acrobatic.

The level of acrobatics in the Sacred Ashes trailer (which I never watched until after I'vd finished DAO for fear of spoilers) was incredibly silly.

That is where the sense of timing, and the feeling of "mashing" buttons comes from.

that sense of timing also needs to be avoided.  That sense of timing was why I uninstalled The Witcher after 10 minutes of play.

1. Agree, but so many RPGs have this nowadays it's nothing that's game breaking for me. Hell, if you want to get technical, having someone able to run as fast as they did in DA:O with full plate on would be considered silly too. Now it's just gonna be worse to make it look "cooler" for the kids to look at.

2. It was silly, though this may be influenced by  my practice of kendo. (You're not trying to dance with your opponent, you're trying to kill him). Silly as it is, does it mean it doesn't work for a video game? Hell, I bet I couldn't show you 1 game that has realistic fighting. Does that mean none of them are fun? Nope, even if the sillyness does make me roll my eyes every now and then.

3. Agree with the timing. Timing is something important to learn in a martial art; it's not something the player should take care of, but a part of the character's developing skills. (Though I guess in the case of video game fight timing, it's not really the same thing, is it?) Even so, timing is for twitch shooters and flash games, I don't play RPG's for a hack and slash ala God of War. 

In the end, Bioware is trying to stay true to it's roots, but the industry has changed so much, a lot of change is needed to put out a successful game these days. I was just like you in the MMO genre when WoW came out, Sylvius. I could make the best points in the world, and fight tooth and nail to explain why UO and  EQ did everything better. At the end of the day, Blizzard was still making millions off of what I called mistakes. They brought people into the MMO genre that I felt (and even said to their face...er...so to speak) didn't belong playing  MMOs because they were there because of WoW. I eventually realized that time doesn't stand still, the industry is always changing; like any business. I learned to thank the developers for what work they did for the niche gamer rather than chastise them for deviating. In the end, we can't change anything. All we can do is decide whether we want to humor the new games or replay the old ones.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 25 septembre 2010 - 11:10 .

[aaniadyen]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That sense of timing was why I uninstalled The Witcher after 10 minutes of play.

*GASP* :o:o


BLASPHEMER!!! BUUUUUUURRRRRNNNN HIIIIIIMMMMM!!!

This coming from a self-proclaimed athiest, for shame. I thought your whole religion was based around making fun of people who do that stuff.

[aaniadyen]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That sense of timing was why I uninstalled The Witcher after 10 minutes of play.

*GASP* :o:o


BLASPHEMER!!! BUUUUUUURRRRRNNNN HIIIIIIMMMMM!!!

This coming from a self-proclaimed athiest, for shame. I thought your whole religion was based around making fun of people who do that stuff.

*Sigh*, atheism is NOT a religion, it is the absence of one.

*I'd have PM'd this but I hate public misinformation.

Could have fooled me by calling it an experience and putting it in your sig. 

(You know I'm just trolling you, right?)

[SirShreK]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

Could have fooled me by calling it an experience and putting it in your sig. 

(You know I'm just trolling you, right?)

All the same, I've heard far too many saying that atheism is a religion, and it grates after a while.

*The Atheist Experience is just the name of the show.

oh.. I thought Atheism was the religion concerning worship of the Godess Athe...

Modifié par SirShreK, 25 septembre 2010 - 12:43 .