218 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

If you want to call the X-Wing, Wing Commander, Freespace, etc. games something besides space sims that's fine with me. What would you prefer to call them? I'd refer to community usage but with a dead genre it doesn't matter.



slimgrin, be prepared to be infuriated at the ending of FS2; or rather, be infuriated at the nonexistence of FS3..

[jpfinch]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I won't make promises until we're done, but I believe we will improve on that front. Origins was not as transparent to expert level players as it should have been.

Just reading that makes me tingle with excitement.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Firky wrote...

There is a bonus to ranged attack when firing downhill?

Well, aren't I learning stuff this morning?

Georg listed it among the variables that needed to be calculated on the fly (there were many) for any given attack within the game.  He was trying to explain why they couldn't have included a combat log even if they'd wanted to.

AlanC9 wrote...

I think everyone who wants to play well would enjoy that, and my impression is that's a large majority of players. There's an awful lot of noise in the information a player gets when playing a complex game like an RPG or a strategy game like, say, one of the HoIs. You're not going to learn how to play better from watching the damage numbers come in unless you're running controlled tests, and that's more than we should expect of anyone.

It would have been much easier to determine which creatures had partial resistances to different damage types if we'd been able to see the damage numbers for more than a couple of seconds.  If I throw a Fireball at a group of enemies and do 18-24 damage to all of them, is that more or less than I did to the last group of enemies?  Do I even remember what the numbers were before?

With a log, I could scroll back and check (which I routinely did in games like BG or NWN).

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I won't make promises until we're
done, but I believe we will improve on that front. Origins was not as
transparent to expert level players as it should have been.

Great news, Mike.

A few announcements like that here and there would go a long way toward staving off the fears of experienced RPG players.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 27 septembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Zenjamin]

I dont get why this is such a big deal for people anyways.

We are all here to feel a connection with our character and to watch the story unfold.



You like bioware?

good.

You like Jade Empire?

Good.





Where I worry, is the conversation wheel and voice acting.

No matter what was selected on the conversation wheel, Shepard came out sounding like a military man. And a hot headed agressive one at that.

You just couldnt get Shepard to sound reasonable or patient or wise. He either felt like a lacky, or an overly aggressive ****.



All to serve a story that was intentionally restricted.

If we see the same thing, in a fantasy game, I will lose faith in bioware.





I want to immerse myself in a story that I create. I dont want to watch a movie.

ME2 was a movie. but it was ok, because it was a good movie, and when I wanted to play a game and relate to my character I could pop in DAO.



If both DA2 and ME3 turn out to be movies. I will see Bioware as innovators in dumbing down the gaming genre.

[Riona45]

Zenjamin wrote...
Where I worry, is the conversation wheel and voice acting.
No matter what was selected on the conversation wheel, Shepard came out sounding like a military man. And a hot headed agressive one at that.
You just couldnt get Shepard to sound reasonable or patient or wise. He either felt like a lacky, or an overly aggressive ****.

Everyone has their own thoughts about how Shepard came off--I will say that I played through as FemShep (Paragon) and I thought she quite often sounded reasonable, patient and wise.  As for sounding like a military man--to be fair, that is exactly what Shepard is supposed to be. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

slimgrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

As for that article on genre death, note that it doesn't explain everything. Space sims died out without ever going that route -- the last X-wing wasn't any more complex than the first.

I just bought Free Space 2, it's friggin awesome. And now I mourn the death of space sims, or any genre, really.

Go to Hard Light Productions forums and get the Freespace SCP project.
Ramped up graphics (to the max), new features, new campaigns...the works. TONS of stuff. Enough to have you going for months.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 27 septembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Zenjamin]

 As for sounding like a military man--to be fair, that is exactly what Shepard is supposed to be. 

And I get that.
I just dont like it.
That mentality starts to take the RP out of RPG

Mike. You posted a verry good article about how generes can die if they get boged down with complexity.
Another way is to change the generes untill they are so alike one another that they no longer exist.

During the reign of Ceasar and Agustus, nobody said, "oh. Well, looks like we suddenly no longer have the republic that we had yesterday". It was a slow change that starter with the Gracus brothers.

Point is, put put a toad in boilind watter, it will hop right out. Put it in cold watter and slowly turn up the heat, and it will burn to death.

..... er. Thats not the point either.
What im trying to say is, Im all for making the combat more fluid. Just dong go down a path where you tell me what character I am going to play, what personality I am going to have, and what story I will be apart of.
Because then its not me in that story at all.

And Then I would just be better off watching Lord Of the Rings or something.

[Riona45]

Zenjamin wrote...

And I get that.
I just dont like it.
That mentality starts to take the RP out of RPG

I don't think the ME series is meant to be pure RPG, though.

I will mention that the devs have said that Hawke is supposed to be a much less defined character than Shepard, for what it's worth.

[Firky]

@ Sylvius That transparency issue is really interesting and something I hadn't really thought of before. I'm glad you raised it. More food for thought.



I didn't mind being "eased into" DAO. I was intending to play on "normal" but had to bump it up to "hard" and then go back and forth between "hard" and "nightmare" before I was even out of Lothering on my first playthrough. For the most part, I just smashed my way through combat to get more story. Having said this, there were several battles which forced me to stop, think and learn something new. (And I'm currently stuck at The Mother on my first playthrough of DAA on "nightmare" - I'll get back to her soon.)



What I'm thinking is, making games "accessible" to newcomers is good for gamers, good for games, good for genres etc etc etc. But I just realised how incredibly lazy I am; unless presented with something I really can't beat, I don't really bother learning new strategies. Is this a characteristic of the Ultima IV generation or just lazy old me?



I remember in BG2 going, "Why does that ulitharid keep killing me in two hits? Why is my intelligence 1? Is it eating my brain? What the hell is going on?" and then going online to find strategies for killing ulitharids because I wanted that bloody warhammer.



So, I think revealing more info about the combat mechanic is good, but I'd like to be forced to learn the high level stuff (through optional encounters?) Still, I can't see that this is something with wide ranging appeal. And I am admitting a certain laziness. But I hadn't considered this before.

[AlanC9]

Zenjamin wrote...
Mike. You posted a verry good article about how generes can die if they get boged down with complexity.
Another way is to change the generes untill they are so alike one another that they no longer exist.

During the reign of Ceasar and Agustus, nobody said, "oh. Well, looks like we suddenly no longer have the republic that we had yesterday". It was a slow change that starter with the Gracus brothers.

Point is, put put a toad in boilind watter, it will hop right out. Put it in cold watter and slowly turn up the heat, and it will burn to death.

..... er. Thats not the point either.
What im trying to say is, Im all for making the combat more fluid. Just dong go down a path where you tell me what character I am going to play, what personality I am going to have, and what story I will be apart of.
Because then its not me in that story at all.

And Then I would just be better off watching Lord Of the Rings or something.

The problem with this whole line of thinking about the RPG genre is that it simply isn't true. The genre has always included games where the PC is fixed, the story is fixed, or both. They may not be the kind of RPG that you personally like, but that just means that you like a particular kind of RPG rather than RPGs in general.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I pretty much loathe Bethesda and everything they stand for, even though they make RPGs.

[AlanC9]

Firky wrote...
I remember in BG2 going, "Why does that ulitharid keep killing me in two hits? Why is my intelligence 1? Is it eating my brain? What the hell is going on?" and then going online to find strategies for killing ulitharids because I wanted that bloody warhammer.  

Well, the manual does say that they will suck the brain out of your head....

[Firky]

The manual? (Lazy, remember? Although I did read Arcanum's cover to cover.)

Maybe I just have an experiential learning style or something.

EDIT: PS. I was just racking my brain trying to think if I used the DAO manual. I did! After 30 minutes of trying to have my warrior bash a chest in the tower of Ishal - I didn't get a rogue - I assume because I had human noble warrior, Dog, Alistair and Circle Mage?

Modifié par Firky, 27 septembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

LOL....you do know there's a mod that lets you bash chest open?

[Sable Rhapsody]

AlanC9 wrote...

Zenjamin wrote...
Mike. You posted a verry good article about how generes can die if they get boged down with complexity.
Another way is to change the generes untill they are so alike one another that they no longer exist.

During the reign of Ceasar and Agustus, nobody said, "oh. Well, looks like we suddenly no longer have the republic that we had yesterday". It was a slow change that starter with the Gracus brothers.

Point is, put put a toad in boilind watter, it will hop right out. Put it in cold watter and slowly turn up the heat, and it will burn to death.

..... er. Thats not the point either.
What im trying to say is, Im all for making the combat more fluid. Just dong go down a path where you tell me what character I am going to play, what personality I am going to have, and what story I will be apart of.
Because then its not me in that story at all.

And Then I would just be better off watching Lord Of the Rings or something.

The problem with this whole line of thinking about the RPG genre is that it simply isn't true. The genre has always included games where the PC is fixed, the story is fixed, or both. They may not be the kind of RPG that you personally like, but that just means that you like a particular kind of RPG rather than RPGs in general.

I've got two words to add to this argument--Planescape: Torment.  

Roleplaying comes in all sorts of flavors.  Obviously you have the mechanical aspects of inventory, character build, etc.  JRPGs have them too.  You also have things like a story with choice, character backstory/personality custimization, appearance, character evolution, etc.  The thing is, you don't need every single one of the hallmarks of an RPG to make a good RPG.  Limiting roleplaying freedom in one aspect (for example, limiting choices at character creation in PS:T) can open up new roleplaying directions in another aspect.

[PSUHammer]

I think Mike has contributed some fantastic insight into the logic behind his design aspirations. I think I fall into the category he describes (30 something, loved old school RPG's, etc). One thing I have to agree on is that as I have gotten older, my tastes have changed. But, now I actually expect a little less micromanagement with my RPG's so I quite like the direction they are going. I loved Mass Effect 2. I loved DAO. I loved the old Ultima games, too. But I doubt I would have the time or patience for them now.

With a wife, kid, stressful job, etc....I just don't have the time to devote to those anymore. I want to sit down and be entertained, baby!  I don't want to worry about hit points and combat calculators and all that other crap.  Even thinking about that makes my head hurt.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[lunarknightmage]

on the subject of combat, can Mike or the devs shed more light on their plans for Mage melee combat?



are mages going to get more "stylistic" melee attacks, like the trailer Hawke?



thanks.

[Zlarm]

I might be retreading old ground here a bit but was there any word on whether the amount of damage a spell does is visible as well as how much more damage it does if I improve my Magic 1 point (and similarly for the fighter and increasing strength and the rogue and increasing dexterity, strength)? I remember hearing about a mod for DA:O that layed out the mechanics but I never got ahold of it. Will these things be a little more transparent in DA2?



Also it would have been nice to know about the bonus to ranged attack when firing down the hill. I remember hearing about it from Georg pre release but thought it got scrapped. I just finished a playthrough with an archer too......

[Attrichak]

i hated the combat in DAO it was very jerky , confusing, and above all frustrating for me anyways. If the combat is set up the same as the first one, sadly I just wont be able to do it . call me retarded, thats fine. But if they implement the combat like Mass Effect 2 then i will wait in line to get this game

[ashwind]

I do not like DAO combat system (can live with it) but I honestly hope they do not make DA2 combat like ME2 because one is a sci-fi action/shooter, the other a medieval rpg/strategy/action game.



I honestly like the ME series better than DA atm but I do not think importing ME combat mechanics into DA will work... it is just the feel and it feels... wrong.



I simply cannot imagine Vanguard Hawke - Heavy Charging everything in its path (heard he can jump into combat).. because that special place is reserved for Shepard



Hope they come up with something new and innovative that does not remind me of ME.

[Mike Laidlaw]

ashwind wrote...
Hope they come up with something new and innovative that does not remind me of ME.

I have always maintained that the odds of Dragon Age becoming a 3rd person, cover-based shooter were quite low, even when asked, repeatedly "Did you turn Dragon Age into Mass Effect?"

Always thought that question missed a few, reasonably key details...

[Dave of Canada]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...


I have always maintained that the odds of Dragon Age becoming a 3rd person, cover-based shooter were quite low,

Darn. I wanted to probe other planets and drive cars.

[Dhiro]

And give tips to strippers!



Male strippers.

[Anarya]

Regarding Mike's humongous wall 'o' text post of a few days ago:

I really liked reading this, actually. It was pretty helpful insight into how you approach your job, philosophically. I really think you and the rest of the DA team have the right attitudes about a lot of things. Most of all in your willingness to reexamine what did and did not work in previous games and change accordingly, and your sincere efforts to accommodate the whole of your audience (insofar as this is even possible). Oh, and the way in which you engage with your fanbase in general (but especially on the forums). I like that you guys are so laid back about the bipolar gamut of emotions around here while still participating in discussions.

So keep on keepin' on. I'm firmly in the "DA2 looks like fun" camp** :happy:


**I am not a teenager, don't have ADHD and play primarily on PC.

[FieryDove]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

ashwind wrote...
Hope they come up with something new and innovative that does not remind me of ME.

I have always maintained that the odds of Dragon Age becoming a 3rd person, cover-based shooter were quite low, even when asked, repeatedly "Did you turn Dragon Age into Mass Effect?"

Always thought that question missed a few, reasonably key details...

As long as we don't get stuck on *top* of the cover that will be a big plus.

Thanks for all the info...we tend to be a greedy lot and appreciate it.
Now where is my set of David/Chris/Stanley/Mike statues?

[Eldragon]

I'm not worried about the speed of combat, I'm looking foward to 2h
weapon swingings being fast and furious instead of a guy trying to swing
a telephone pole. I'm more concerned over how the classes have been pigeonholed in order to make them distinct.  Now the Fighters MUST use 2h swords or Sword and board, no bows, no dual hand-axes. And rogues MUST do bows or two weapons, no shields. Its flat out depressing.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I have always maintained that the odds of Dragon Age becoming a 3rd person, cover-based shooter were quite low, even when asked, repeatedly "Did you turn Dragon Age into Mass Effect?"

Always thought that question missed a few, reasonably key details...

Mass Effect is more than a '3rd person, cover-based shooter', but an rpg where the protagonist  has been chosen for you. e.g. You don't pick your dialog in Mass Effect, you nudge shepard into a response, and often times what you get is not what you expected.

Those who say "You have turned Dragon Age into Mass Effect" are reacting to a feeling that they will no longer be playing their character, but one assigned to them.  The Witcher is a fun RPG, I really liked it, but at no point did I ever feel I was playing "Eldragon of Rivia" I was playing "Geralt of Rivia", and happened to make a few choices for him. DA2 is going to feel the same way. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, its just a simple fact that when the developers pick the PC's name, voice and words, it takes a little of the Role Play out of RPG.