256 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

For all we know, Arlathan elves might have had their own circles!

They had drug addicts watching over children? Yes, that must explain why the Dalish are going to such lengths to have Keepers as their leaders and doing nothing to emulate the Chantry Circles...

Think we actually know very little regarding how the Dalish handle their mages -- if i'm not mistaken we're told a Dalish clan has the Keeper and the Keeper has an apprentice who's supposed to take over once the Keeper dies... but is it ever addressed how the Dalish handle other mages than these two? Oddly enough we don't meet such individuals, and you can't select mage specialization as Dalish elf in the game without modifications (there's Wynne's old pupil but he's a city elf)

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 octobre 2010 - 02:40 .

[tool_bot]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

For all we know, Arlathan elves might have had their own circles!

They had drug addicts watching over children? Yes, that must explain why the Dalish are going to such lengths to have Keepers as their leaders and doing nothing to emulate the Chantry Circles...

Think we actually know very little regarding how the Dalish handle their mages -- if i'm not mistaken we're told a Dalish clan has the Keeper and the Keeper has an apprentice who's supposed to take over once the Keeper dies... but is it ever addressed how the Dalish handle other mages than these two? Oddly enough we don't meet such individuals, and you can't select mage specialization as Dalish elf in the game without modifications (there's Wynne's old pupil but he's a city elf)

But if the Dalish were anywhere near as worried about abominations and the like as the Chantry, would they have allowed Aneirin to walk around freely through the Brecilian forest?

[Sir JK]

tmp7704 wrote...
...there's Wynne's old pupil but he's a city elf)

Interestingly enough, Aneirin is also not actually living with the Dalish but on his own. Tolerated yes. Accepted, probably. But he's still not living with them. Wether than means something or not I cannot say.

[tool_bot]

tmp7704 wrote...
I think it's realistic rather than ridiculous given empty declarations has been par for the course in politics. If anything it seems more ridiculous that such important matter would be up to whim of any local ruler when it's otherwise a system they aren't really part of, and that such meddling wouldn't be met with strong objection from the Chantry if not Greagoir himself.

I'm with you for most of what you said, but I really don't understand why a lord should be happy being at the beck and call of the Chantry. It is his land and these are his subjects. Why should he kow-tow to anyone he's under no obligation to? This is especially true in Ferelden where the freedom of Land Holders is supposedly a great point of honor.

I understand the Chantry commands a lot of political support and that it commands the love of the commoners, but there are still ways to subvert their powers.

[tool_bot]

Sir JK wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
...there's Wynne's old pupil but he's a city elf)

Interestingly enough, Aneirin is also not actually living with the Dalish but on his own. Tolerated yes. Accepted, probably. But he's still not living with them. Wether than means something or not I cannot say.

Doesn't he leave of his own choosing? If I'm remembering right, he says he prefers living on his own and getting to know the woods. The Dalish had more then welcomed him and even revered him in some way because of his healing talents.

[tmp7704]

tool_bot wrote...

But if the Dalish were anywhere near as worried about abominations and the like as the Chantry, would they have allowed Aneirin to walk around freely through the Brecilian forest?

I'd guess since the Dalish listen to the Keeper it was up to the Keeper to decide, and as an older, more experienced mage the Keeper likely felt it was the sort of danger (s)he could handle if the worst happened? But in any case this is why it'd be nice to have more info exactly what views and practices the elves have regarding these matters.

[tmp7704]

tool_bot wrote...

Doesn't he leave of his own choosing? If I'm remembering right, he says he prefers living on his own and getting to know the woods. The Dalish had more then welcomed him and even revered him in some way because of his healing talents.

He says the Dalish gave him warm welcome and made him feel like part of the family for the few years he's spent with them; he was taught some elf magic during his stay, too. Ultimately he left because as city elf he wouldn't really feel as being one of them.

[Sir JK]

tool_bot wrote...
Doesn't he leave of his own choosing? If I'm remembering right, he says he prefers living on his own and getting to know the woods. The Dalish had more then welcomed him and even revered him in some way because of his healing talents.

Possibly, as I said: Wether that means anything I cannot say. You could be completely right. It could also be that he prefers living on his own because the Dalish mages didn't have it that differently, but thanks to him being "a healer" they leave him be out of respect. It's all speculation of course.
All we know is that he prefers to be alone and that the Dalish let him.

But this discussion should really be brought back to qunari mage policy, we already have a topic to discuss circle mage policy.

[LobselVith8]

[quote]tmp7704 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

For all we know, Arlathan elves might have had their own circles!
[/quote]

They had drug addicts watching over children? Yes, that must explain why the Dalish are going to such lengths to have Keepers as their leaders and doing nothing to emulate the Chantry Circles...[/quote]
Think we actually know very little regarding how the Dalish handle their mages -- if i'm not mistaken we're told a Dalish clan has the Keeper and the Keeper has an apprentice who's supposed to take over once the Keeper dies... but is it ever addressed how the Dalish handle other mages than these two? Oddly enough we don't meet such individuals, and you can't select mage specialization as Dalish elf in the game without modifications (there's Wynne's old pupil but he's a city elf)[/quote]

The codex about the Dalish doesn't mention anything, but considering that this is a game where some NPCs repeat the same dialogue and look practically the same, the fact that we don't really meet a plethora of other Dalish elves who gives us an intricate understanding of their society shouldn't come as a surprise. Regarding the other mages, I'd assume there are other mages, since how exactly would the First find any replacements once the First becomes the new Keeper, or if the First dies before replacing the Keeper?

[quote]tmp7704 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

That scenerio doesn't take into account the actions of the mages themselves. The mages were a vital part of the Andrastian Chantry's ability to defeat the Qunari in the New Exalted Marches. If the ruler of Ferelden tried to force the issue of the Magi boon, since these are Ferelden citizens we're talking about, it could cause an insurrection among the mages of the six Circles located within Orlais, and possibly every Circle across Thedas.[/quote]

That feels rather naive -- why would Orlesian or any other non-Ferelden mages want to risk their own necks for the sake of people they generally wouldn't even know and/or may vaguely dislike based on national bias? Before you answer "because they're all mages" keep in mind this factor doesn't apparently stop some mages from actively keeping down the others in Tevinter. Mages are selfish just like anyone else. Granted, some may think ahead farther than others but that brings us to: [/quote]

You mean to say that no mage would want to trade a life of being little more than a slave to the Chantry for a life of freedom? Why would you assume that, among a population that lives under the rule of the Chantry as nothing more than their property, nobody would want to defect to a nation that would grant them independence and recognize their right to govern themselves? A nation that offers freedom for mages in a way that Tevinter doesn't might be incentive enough for plenty of mages. Considering that the end of DA:O has the ruler of Ferelden proclaiming that the mages earned the right to govern themselves (and I'm not even mentioning the US ending where the ruler actually ordered Greagoir that once the new tower was built in honor of the Warden, the tower was to be handed over to the mages) it didn't seem like an issue then. There are plenty of reasons and arguments to be made for both sides.

Honestly, I feel like I'm juggling what actually happened in DA:O and what the devs are trying to set up in DA2 with the mages and the Chantry now. The ruler certainly didn't ask Greagoir in the US ending for permission, the ruler told him what was going to happen with the mages at the new tower. In fact, during the ceremony, the ruler says: "How do you properly honor someone like that?" Alistair or Anora mention the tomb in Weisshaupt, then the ruler tells Greagoir that a new tower will be built because the veil is too weak at the Circle Tower, "a new tower built, with the Chantry's aid. And it will bear the Hero's name. And once the tower is built, Knight-Commander, I am granting the Circle autonomy." And what does Greagoir say? "Yes, your majesty. As you say."

In other words, in the US ending, the ruler grants the Circle autonomy, but now we're told that it never happened if the Warden survived? It's a recton.
 
[quote]tmp7704 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

It's also a factor of whether Empress Celene I would even commit any soldiers against Ferelden, given her attitude in her correspondence with King Cailan of making peace despite the occupation that ended thirty years ago[/quote]

The very thing you bring up can actually be good reason for her to at least consider such move -- if mages in one country get to roam free, mages elsewhere may get in their heads they should be allowed the same and that is a quite stronger incentive to rebel. If mages are indeed as important as you presume then it's in the ruler's best interest to ensure they stay under tight control and any attempts to change that get prompt reaction. [/quote]

There's also the issue of the response by the mages themselves in Orlais, the nation with six Circles of Magi, and the Circles all across Thedas.

[quote]tmp7704 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

and I'm certain the Dalish all across Thedas would love an excuse to regain their lost territory from Orlais.[/quote]

And i'm sure people across Thedas would love an excuse for more of elf razing. And elves picking a fight under a banner of unleashing mages upon population which generally distrust and fears magic... well, let's just say that's hardly the best choice of PR one could make. [/quote]

And I'm certain the Dalish would love to get the Dales back, and considering there are elves all across Thedas, it's certainly possible they have the numbers to make it happen with the right ally. And I doubt the Dalish care about their PR - if they did, they'd be living in alienages.

[quote]tmp7704 wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Regardless of what factors would play into this scenerio, it seems ridiculous that a Magi boon is offered in DA:O and then we're told on a forum "nope, doesn't happen," especially when, in the US ending, the ruler actually commands Greagoir to leave the Circle after the new tower is built, and Greagoir concedes to the new ruler.[/quote]

I think it's realistic rather than ridiculous given empty declarations has been par for the course in politics. If anything it seems more ridiculous that such important matter would be up to whim of any local ruler when it's otherwise a system they aren't really part of, and that such meddling wouldn't be met with strong objection from the Chantry if not Greagoir himself.[/quote]

You completely ignored my comment that, in the US ending, the ruler actually gives the command to Greagoir that the Circle will be given autonomy.

[tool_bot]

LobselVith8 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

I think it's realistic rather than ridiculous given empty declarations has been par for the course in politics. If anything it seems more ridiculous that such important matter would be up to whim of any local ruler when it's otherwise a system they aren't really part of, and that such meddling wouldn't be met with strong objection from the Chantry if not Greagoir himself.

You completely ignored my comment that, in the US ending, the ruler actually gives the command to Greagoir that the Circle will be given autonomy.

And the Revered Mother likely orders him right back. Gregoir's immediate alliegence is to the Chantry and not the crown. The Templars are the military wing of the Chantry and they are under their control. The King can ask for their help and cooperation but unless the Divine oks it, it won't happen.

That's one of the reasons I dislike the Chantry so much. 

[ShrinkingFish]

tool_bot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

I think it's realistic rather than ridiculous given empty declarations has been par for the course in politics. If anything it seems more ridiculous that such important matter would be up to whim of any local ruler when it's otherwise a system they aren't really part of, and that such meddling wouldn't be met with strong objection from the Chantry if not Greagoir himself.

You completely ignored my comment that, in the US ending, the ruler actually gives the command to Greagoir that the Circle will be given autonomy.

And the Revered Mother likely orders him right back. Gregoir's immediate alliegence is to the Chantry and not the crown. The Templars are the military wing of the Chantry and they are under their control. The King can ask for their help and cooperation but unless the Divine oks it, it won't happen.

That's one of the reasons I dislike the Chantry so much. 

The King can also order the Templars to evacuate his lands. Just like what happened with the Grey Wardens oh so way back when. And decree that all mages within his kingdom's borders are to be free from Chantry oversight.

After all, the Circle is there because the King allows it to be. Sure, this type of action may very well start some kind of armed conflict... but it could still be done.

[Asepsis]

LOL I missed a lot!



Do not forget there are mage loyalists who love being abused by the Chantry, so they could have some affect on what's going on in DA:2, just saying.



Now...



I personally got the feeling that Sten had a hard core, personal dislike of mages. So what he said I took with a grain of salt. Although the fact that they call mages things is a bit extreme, it's not so different from other nations referring to mages as cursed and dangerous, or whatever.



I'm guessing when the Qun was being spread in the beginning, Qunari (Or whatever they were before the Qun) mages were into some really sick stuff, the people before the Qun might have had some bad experiences with magic. I really want to hear a Tamassran explain this, lol.



Also, the Qunari are all about a uniform code of treatment depending on your station, so it would make sense they'd use the same measures with all mages regardless of how threatening or not the specific mage might be.



This is me trying to stay on topic, lol, although I really could complain all day about the Chantry's issues with mages, hehe.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Exactly. The rage demon that tried to take over the mage directly was no threat to possession. The pride demon that tried to trick and manipulate the mage was the true threat.

IIRC, that is incorrect. Taking over by force is also possible for demons, but it's harder than posseseion. What happens when a mage dies in the Fade, killed by a demon?
The Circle mages that Uldred tortured were well trained, so taking over by force was not a smart option.

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Exactly. The rage demon that tried to take over the mage directly was no threat to possession. The pride demon that tried to trick and manipulate the mage was the true threat.

IIRC, that is incorrect. Taking over by force is also possible for demons, but it's harder than posseseion. What happens when a mage dies in the Fade, killed by a demon?
The Circle mages that Uldred tortured were well trained, so taking over by force was not a smart option.

Firstly... what does IIRC stand for? You keep saying it and I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

Second. There are no examples of a demon managing to force possession onto a mage to create an abomination that I know of throughout my many playthroughs of the game. Care to clarify? Perhaps I just don't remember.

But if a mage dies in the Fade, killed by a demon, then their body dies in the real world, does it not? To slowly wither away. Like Niall's. I suppose, if the Viel is thin, the demon can possess the mage's corpse. But that isn't an abomination then, it is an arcane horror...

Anyways, I need examples of what you mean. Cause I really remember no instances where it happened...

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I notice you make an accusation and then change your story to support your claims, just like when you claimed the Mages Collective was run by apostates and abominations, and then changed your claim to members likely turning into abominations.[/quote]

No, you like to think that's what I said.
Yes, there are blood mages and abominations among the Collective..how I know? - because there are blood mages and abominations among any larger group of mages, and there's nothing to grant hte Collective immunity from that.



[quote]
You and I are discussing if there's anyone of a higher rank within the templars assembled at the Circle Tower, not all of Thedas. There's absolutely no evidence that there's anyone of a higher rank than him within the templars residing at the Circle Tower. Greagoir was giving all the orders, and specifically said he was the Knight-Commander. He's also continually referenced during the Magi Origin has having more authority than First Enchanter Irving. Do you have any proof to show otherwise?[/quote]

No, we were not. Don't try to twist this. We were discussing if there is oversight, not where that oversight is.
And your'e again talking rubbish.
Of course, there is a highest ranking individul in a given location! THERE ALWAYS IS ONE IN ANY ORGANIZATION.
If not Gregoir, then someone else. And then you would have a problem with that someone else. Gregoir having the highest authority in the Circle Tower is not the issue. It's no different from the police Chief having control over the police station, or a general having control of a military base.

Where the hell were you even going with this?

[quote]
Regarding Cullen, they made him Knight-Commander. He's ruling the Circle in fear. You're telling me no one could predict that an emotional man who was tortured by abominations and thought that all the mages of the Circle had demons lying dormant was unstable?[/quote]

Yes. Becasue he wasn't talking nonsense. Clearing the tower completley is not a insane notion. And how was anyone supposed to know just how muhc torture he endured or that he wouldn't calm down? (remeber, he was jsut released...his paranoia could easily be prescribed ot temporary shock. It's not like they have psychaitrists in Thedas)




[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]
I said, for all we know, they kill them, because we don't know what they do.[/quote]

I know, but is there any sensible reason for whay they would do that?







[quote]
I didn't realize that in lore, Kolgrim has bound by game mechanics because, in that case, Zathrian isn't really a Keeper of a Dalish clan - he's strictly a blood mage, nothing more. And Kolgrim didn't have an opinion, he knew the Ashes were either destroyed or left alone.[/quote]

Keeper is a title, not a class.
And Kolgrim did have an oppinion on Andrastes teachings. How he knew about the ashes? I dunno. Maybe he spied on you. Maybe some of the mages told him. Again, you can't jsut say he's a mage because of that.


[quote]
[quote]
Yes, and do you realise how little that is?
How many ancient elves were mages? Where did they live? How were the mages trained and controled? We don't know those things. [/quote]

How many templars are in Thedas? Where did Greagoir come from? How did he become the Knight-Commander? How many templars are trained and how many reside at the Circle and oversee the mages? We don't know these things, either.[/quote]

.....

Is that your comeback? It's pathetic. It doesn't even begin to deal with the issue.

We know a LOT more about the templars then we know about the ancient elves. And exactly what we do not know about them is ctirical to the understanding of the mage issue. In other words, you're making 0 sense whatsoever.

[Lotion Soronarr]

tool_bot wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And "life imprisoment"? More like "life quarantene". One can argue that it's the same, but the difference between the two is very important.

Yes.

The former accurately describes the situation. The latter is political word play. (ie find something that sorta sounds like what's happening but makes it sound nobler and not as ugly)

Think of it what you wish. Doesn't change anything.

If you were in a qarantene and tried to escape, I'd personally drag you back in, dead or alive. And I would be perfectly justified in doing so.

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And "life imprisoment"? More like "life quarantene". One can argue that it's the same, but the difference between the two is very important.

Yes.

The former accurately describes the situation. The latter is political word play. (ie find something that sorta sounds like what's happening but makes it sound nobler and not as ugly)

Think of it what you wish. Doesn't change anything.

If you were in a qarantene and tried to escape, I'd personally drag you back in, dead or alive. And I would be perfectly justified in doing so.

But there is a difference between quarantining people who are sick and quarantining people who might get sick...
If you dragged a person who had a chance to get sick but wasn't back into a quarantine on pain of death then you would not be morally justified.

[Lotion Soronarr]

tool_bot wrote...
And the Revered Mother likely orders him right back. Gregoir's immediate alliegence is to the Chantry and not the crown. The Templars are the military wing of the Chantry and they are under their control. The King can ask for their help and cooperation but unless the Divine oks it, it won't happen.

That's one of the reasons I dislike the Chantry so much. 

And this is exactly why I like it.
Chantry take no s*** from no pissy snobby king of a little backwater country.
"My house dawg! My charges! No."

[Lotion Soronarr]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Firstly... what does IIRC stand for? You keep saying it and I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

If I Remember Correcty

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

tool_bot wrote...
And the Revered Mother likely orders him right back. Gregoir's immediate alliegence is to the Chantry and not the crown. The Templars are the military wing of the Chantry and they are under their control. The King can ask for their help and cooperation but unless the Divine oks it, it won't happen.

That's one of the reasons I dislike the Chantry so much. 

And this is exactly why I like it.
Chantry take no s*** from no pissy snobby king of a little backwater country.
"My house dawg! My charges! No."

To which the local King replies. "Get your Templars out of my country or I'll start making arrests and carving them up for stakes. I hereby declare all members of the Templar order banished from the realm on pain of death."

And bam, we've got ourselves a war. Church of England style!! Bring it on!! *flexes his British pride muscle*

[ShrinkingFish]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Firstly... what does IIRC stand for? You keep saying it and I'm just not familiar with the acronym.

If I Remember Correcty

Thanks dude. Clears up a lot of what you've said in the past.

[EmperorSahlertz]

David Gaider never confirmed the phylacteries were specifically Blood Magic. He said it was very much alike to blood magic and it could be viewed by some as blood magic. At least that's what he said in the post I remember. Can't recall he elaborated further on the issue later.

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The codex about the Dalish doesn't mention anything, but considering that this is a game where some NPCs repeat the same dialogue and look practically the same, the fact that we don't really meet a plethora of other Dalish elves who gives us an intricate understanding of their society shouldn't come as a surprise. Regarding the other mages, I'd assume there are other mages, since how exactly would the First find any replacements once the First becomes the new Keeper, or if the First dies before replacing the Keeper?

I think it's just rather odd that we don't see a single Dalish mage (other than Keeper + apprentice) while we get to see quite a few mages outside of the Circle in human environments. Especially combined with game not allowing you to be a mage if you start your game as Dalish. I'm also assuming there is other Dalish mages for the same reason you mention, but i wonder what happens to them -- it seems too convenient and unlikely that there would only ever be just enough of them to fill positions of the Keeper and keeper's First, and yet they're oddly absent, no?

You mean to say that no mage would want to trade a life of being little more than a slave to the Chantry for a life of freedom? Why would you assume that, among a population that lives under the rule of the Chantry as nothing more than their property, nobody would want to defect to a nation that would grant them independence and recognize their right to govern themselves?

No, i mean to say few people would want to trade their life (as in, getting executed) just so someone else they don't even know may possibly have it better. Keep in mind you've talked of "insurrection" which is generally something quite different from just running to another country -- it's organized rebellion, and active resistance going as far as attempts to destroy established government.
 

A nation that offers freedom for mages in a way that Tevinter doesn't might be incentive enough for plenty of mages. Considering that the end of DA:O has the ruler of Ferelden proclaiming that the mages earned the right to govern themselves (and I'm not even mentioning the US ending where the ruler actually ordered Greagoir that once the new tower was built in honor of the Warden, the tower was to be handed over to the mages) it didn't seem like an issue then.

I think you're reading too far into it here. The ruler of Ferelden proclaims Ferelden mages earned their freedom by participating in fight against the Blight and helping to defeat the archdemon. This is far cry from claiming all mages earned that right, and even farther from expectation any foreign mage can just waltz in and be welcome with open arms. Especially if it happens to be a mage who rebelled to get their wish -- after all who is to say such mage doesn't rebel again this time against the Ferelden authorities when they get into their heads they're entitled to even more?

LobselVith8 wrote...

And I'm certain the Dalish would love to get the Dales back, and considering there are elves all across Thedas, it's certainly possible they have the numbers to make it happen with the right ally. And I doubt the Dalish care about their PR - if they did, they'd be living in alienages.

I don't think the numbers argument can work very well -- by the same token there's also humans all across Thedas who would love to put the elves back in their place shall they ever get illusions of grandeur. And at least some of the Dalish certainly do seem to care about their PR given their lives hinge on it -- consider the tribe in Awakening which goes as far as to expel their member who is found too abrasive and war-mongering. They don't live in alienages but for the most part they actively avoid humans and conflict with them. As such i doubt you could get them all go "oh yeah, let's support mages in a war with humans so we get Dales back, surely that couldn't possibly backfire and end with our tribes eradicated for good".

You completely ignored my comment that, in the US ending, the ruler actually gives the command to Greagoir that the Circle will be given autonomy.

I didn't ignore it. My comment calling it "more ridiculous" was referring precisely to lack of objection shown in that scene. Although i'd give them benefit of doubt and presume Greagoir simply didn't want to start a quarrel during what's basically a funeral, but as soon as it was over it's more than likely someone from the chantry went all "yo little king, you mad?"

[ShrinkingFish]

tmp7704 wrote...

I didn't ignore it. My comment calling it "more ridiculous" was referring precisely to lack of objection shown in that scene. Although i'd give them benefit of doubt and presume Greagoir simply didn't want to start a quarrel during what's basically a funeral, but as soon as it was over it's more than likely someone from the chantry went all "yo little king, you mad?"

How many times do I have to sight precedent for a monarchy's authority over an organized religion until someone actually reads it?

In theory, nobles have no authority of Templars. But, as authority comes at the end of a sword, if the monarchy was willing to go to war over the point then the Chantry would either have to limp off home or draw swords and fight against the kingdom that opposes them.

All the king has to do to kick off this little fiasco is pass the law that "Within my borders the mages are to govern themselves, and the Templar Order is hereby banished from the realm on pain of death" And the Templar and the Chantry would either have to obey or shed blood over the point. It would all come down to who could afford the war and who could not.

[Daerog]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The codex about the Dalish doesn't mention anything, but considering that this is a game where some NPCs repeat the same dialogue and look practically the same, the fact that we don't really meet a plethora of other Dalish elves who gives us an intricate understanding of their society shouldn't come as a surprise. Regarding the other mages, I'd assume there are other mages, since how exactly would the First find any replacements once the First becomes the new Keeper, or if the First dies before replacing the Keeper?

I think it's just rather odd that we don't see a single Dalish mage (other than Keeper + apprentice) while we get to see quite a few mages outside of the Circle in human environments. Especially combined with game not allowing you to be a mage if you start your game as Dalish. I'm also assuming there is other Dalish mages for the same reason you mention, but i wonder what happens to them -- it seems too convenient and unlikely that there would only ever be just enough of them to fill positions of the Keeper and keeper's First, and yet they're oddly absent, no?

Well, there are other mages trained under the Keeper. The First is just considered to be the one who will replace the Keeper at some point. So, while we only see Zathrian and the First, she does mention others who may have been a bit jealous of her quick advancement. So, I would assume that the mages in Dalish clans are set up with the Keeper as the supreme guide and teacher, with like 3-10 mages learning from the Keeper and one of them becoming a First.