6 réponses à ce sujet

[Ares Caesar]

I've decided to look into trying to calculate the value of each weapons "survivability" (how likely a squadmate is to stick out of cover shooting and getting shot at) for squadmates, as well as the relationship between survivability and damage per bursts between cover.

***POINT OF THIS IS TO CREATE ARTIFICIAL TACTICS FOR SQUAD THROUGH WEAPON SELECTION***

What I need is (from anyone willing to offer their findings);

1) Weapon used

2) Squadmate weapon is equiped on(still unsure if this makes a difference so I'd like to factor it in for now)

3) Shots fired between cover-burst(shooting)-cover

4) Difficulty setting (because enemies likely will die before burst is necessarily finished if on easier settings)

*PLEASE DO NOT POST ONLY A SINGLE TIME OBSERVATION* Given the number of variables involved simply post what you could gather from a few battles in a mission (doesnt have to be an entire mission, a couple of sections of battles should suffice for preliminary findings and with enough of them we might start to get a consensus)

I think the single shot weapons/semi auto weapons will be incredibly hard to calculate, but I'd still like any info people find, as those are still valuable weapons and are worthy of calculation (especially the mattock, mantis, viper, phalanx, and widow)


Below I've listed some numbers I came up with for another thread based on the SMGs, so it'll provide you with an idea of what the outcome of my findings will hope to provide.

It seems to me, that if not staggered or interrupted they(squadmates) fire about half a clip for each weapon between cover-burst-cover, and given the likely programming, it seems a fair assumption at least as far as easy math is concerned for both my following calcs and the programming aspects. Of course if anyone can offer more concrete evidence PLEASE DO, because I'd love to really crunch some numbers, and its pretty hard to get an accurate assessment given the massive amount of variables involved in even collecting data on this stuff. Below I've listed some VERY ARBITRARY calcs for the SMGs... again I dont know exactly how many shots a squadmate is programmed to fire, but from some general info such as shots per trigger pull, clip size divided by trigger pull, and just "empirical data" (i.e. what others have thought, and what it seems like based on my playthroughs)


DAMAGE VALUES - Based on 1/2 clip bursting between cover

Locust-ShotsPerBurst-10*25damage= 250 damage per burst

Tempest-ShotsPerBurst-25*14damage= 350 damage per burst

Shuriken-ShotsPerBurst-12*20.5damage= 246 damage per burst

RESULTS = That means the Locust and Shuriken do approx. 30% LESS damage per burst, making the Tempest a CLEAR winner in the damage department.


SURVIVABILITY(Time spent shooting between cover), if each burst is 1/2 clip, then cover, here's the numbers on that;

Locust-550rpm= 9.16(RoundsPerSecond)/10(ShotsPerBurst)= 1.09 seconds of shooting between cover

Tempest-925rpm= 15.41(RoundsPerSecond)/25(ShotsPerBurst)= 1.62 seconds of shooting between cover

Shuriken-700rpm= 11.66(RoundsPerSecond)/12(ShotsPerBurst)= 1.02 seconds of shooting between cover

RESULTS = As some other "expert players" have suggested simply based on their empirical observations, the Shuriken is actually the most survivable weapon for squadmates, with the Locust in a close second, and the Tempest while providing FAR MORE damage, offers FAR LESS survivability.

FINAL THOUGHTS = Its a clear trade off on what you want your squad to provide. If you are playing on easier difficulties, using your squadmates more for powers than weapon damage or usually try to place yourself in the action more often as a damage sponge(Tanking), the Tempest is THE best weapon without a doubt, however if you're playing on Insanity or Hardcore and fighting ranged without taking the bulk of the enemy fire the Shuriken or Locust are better clearly as that HALF SECOND MORE of burst fire is easily enough damage from the enemy to significantly wound/kill squadmates. Between the Locust and Shuriken, I'd say it depends on the mission, if you're fighting Geth/Blue Suns the Shuriken looks to be the better weapon, where as against Bloodpack/Collectors and Multi-Shielded Mini Bosses/Bosses the Locust wins. I dont play on Insanity a lot, but I've been told that there is a lot more armor on insanity, so I'd say the Locust probably is the best choice, but that probably depends on what squad ammo powers you equip and what casting powers you have for armor. I also would question the value of the Tempest because of the likelyhood that each burst probably will nearly kill an enemy, especially with ammo powers and max research upgrades, and less enemies=less damage returned from enemies=less damage squadmates will likely take per burst, possibly improving its "survivability"... though health+shield recharge times might negate that aspect as well, probably again improving the survivability for the Locust and Shuriken. Its just so hard to get true values because of all the variables to account for.

*AGAIN LET ME STATE THAT THESE NUMBERS ARE ENTIRELY BASED ON ARBITRARY CALCULATIONS AND EMPIRICAL DATA NOT PROVEN FACT*
(so dont respond telling me I'm wrong, because I'm not saying I'm right in the first place, I'm just suggesting numbers based on what is easily calculated)

Also numerical values for weapons all taken from masseffect.wikia.com


THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ALL INFO PROVIDED

Modifié par Ares Caesar, 25 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[PWENER]

Some people have just a little too much time in they're hands...

[Tony Gunslinger]

If the 1/2 clip assumption is correct, then the numbers seem to back up the general observations. I just don't know if it is 1/2 clip. There could be other factors that are at play, such as AI detecting openings to the target, reaction times, and even your playstyle may affect squadmate's aggressiveness. There are times when my squad simply do not even take a shot at a ragdolled enemy right in front of them, and there are times when they go all-out Rambo, charging in with a sniper rifle.

I personally have not made precise observations because I'm too busy on the field. I sparringly assign squad positions; I only do so when I know of the difficult places. Usually I let them reign free while I play aggressively. All of the AIs seem to be only capable of reacting to one enemy at a time, the closest being their first target, and ignoring everybody else. Enemy AI's seem to have a priority (Shepard, then closest squadmate, then whoever is shooting at them). Thus squadmates are horrible against heavies because they are usually at the back of the field.

On the SM where you are fighting Klixens, Vorcha, and Korgans, there is no cover. By default, my squadmates will tend to run away whenever the Klixens appear. Zaeed will always run no matter what weapon I give him, while Grunt sometimes charge ahead and never stop. It makes me wonder if each squadmate may have different behaviors.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 25 septembre 2010 - 04:15 .

[PWENER]

Like I said... too much time in they're hands.......

Modifié par PWENER, 25 septembre 2010 - 04:23 .

[Ares Caesar]

PWENER wrote...

Like I said... too much time in they're hands.......

Probably a lil bit of both man :innocent:

I guess this is what happens when you're a person who cant do anything unless its the most efficient way of doing it, combined with just getting fired and having tons of free time you havent had for the last decade+ of your life, and hardly having an idea of what to do with it. Not to mention with the cr@p job market, its not like I've got tons of options, and I can afford to wait a few weeks before I resort to flippin burgers at McD. 

Besides, with how much little math I get to use in my daily life, and how much I hate doing math for the sake of math alone... I justify it by calling it "logistics" instead, and if I'm gonna do it at all, I might as well apply it towards somethin' I love doing anyway (playing Mass Effect).

I dont really expect to gain certain results, mostly a bunch of empirical data combined with situational opinion.

Like I said, I've spent most of my time working and not getting to play Mass Effect as much as I would have liked, and now that I'm really diving in, I just wanna make sure I'm gettin' the most out of it.

Anyway for anyone who does end up contributing their findings, thanks.

(I will say part of me is also really interested in finding out if squadmates actually employ different tactics with the same weapons, or if the AI plays them all entirely the same)

[PWENER]

Damm, I guess your right.

[Ares Caesar]

I should also mention the real idea here is to use weapons to artificially create "tactics" for squadmates.



In that if you want damage (i.e. using Grunt), weapon "X" will be the best vs. if you want survivability so you can maximize a squadmates powers (either defense stripping or crowd control) weapon "Y" will actually force them to sit in cover more and generally stay alive more often so you can best exploit their powers, rather than worrying about them dying because they dont respond to getting damaged and simply seem to look to deal it rather than worry about it getting dealt to them.



Nothing is more annoying than rushing in to battle after having told a squadmate to sit back and let you use their powers on the scion or praetorian, and instead they stand up for a long period of time and blast away because they're using weapon "X" which causes them to shoot longer durations and take more damage.