403 réponses à ce sujet

[anmiro]

TIM has never even clearly stated what he intends to get out of the collector base. Cerberus's plan is like some thing out of the Aliens trilogy. "Hey maybe if we can isolate this alien species in a lab we can learn something useful from it. OH MY GOD IT ESCAPED AND IS KILLING EVERYONE!!!"

What did we learn? The Reapers are really dangerous. How is that helpful? Its not, but maybe if we try again will learn something else.

Modifié par anmiro, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[AntiChri5]

bobobo878 wrote...



Ok, many of us haven't read us, so are there any specific examples of this from the novel you'd like to share?

He prioritises his own revenge over practicality and risks humanity by doing so.

[PWENER]

He is going to use the Collector Base to force the other races to go under humanity's rule. It's up to Shepard and his allies to stop the Reapers. NOT CERBERUS OR THE BASE.

[PWENER]

AntiChri5 wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Ok, many of us haven't read us, so are there any specific examples of this from the novel you'd like to share?

He prioritises his own revenge over practicality and risks humanity by doing so.

Can't blame him. I may do the same. Meabye.

Wouldn't you?

[AntiChri5]

Can't blame him. I may do the same. Meabye. Wouldn't you?

Risk the species he claims to be protecting just tomget back at someone he doesnt like?

Yeah, i blame him for that.

And no, i dont think i would put humanity at risk because i dont like someone.

[PWENER]

I see your point. But things worked out.... I guess.

[PWENER]

jollyorigins wrote...

i hate them both equally

[ELABORATE]

[Mr. Gogeta34]

AntiChri5 wrote...

The real reason is that he's in some ways too cautious for his own good.  He WILL NOT get his own hands dirty.  If someone does something wrong, he may give a lecture or throw a fit, but the most he can do in response is send others under orders to clean up the mess.

In Mass Effect 2, you had the choice of bombing civilians.  TIM had nothing to do with that should you decide to do it.  You were sent there to stop the missles from launching, that's it.  However, because disarming both was impossible, you had to choose which place got bombed anyway.

So while TIM only wanted the bomb launched stopped, the papers could read that Cerberus annihilated a civilian population... which would've not been his fault.

The Illusive Man has full control over Cerberus.
Im betting he knows what every Cerberus employee has for lunch every day.
There are numerous refernces to all the hidden surveilance equipment on the SR 2, and EDI tells us about how TIM deliberatly keeps Cerberus small so he can watch over every operation personally.

Full control over Cerberus... then keeping the Collector Base shouldn't have been a suggestion.  The fact that you could say "no" shows the full extent of TIM's "control".  Any other Cerberus group member could say "no" to TIM as easily as you did.

TIM wants a return on investment so he's not quick to throw away an operation if someone does something stupid.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 septembre 2010 - 12:54 .

[ThisIsMadness91]

PWENER wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

 the Alliance is simply stronger than Cerberus.

For now..... remember the Collector Base? 

You mean the one I blew up? Yeah, I have some nice memories of that place.

As for who I would side with, I would go with the Alliance. Sure, they've made dumb decisions in the past. Sure, they've broken galactic law on occasion. But I find their mistakes and misdeeds much less severe and unethical than the ones Cerberus has made.

Though as many others have said, if given the choice, I'd like to create my own faction, focused solely on defeating the Reapers.

[AntiChri5]

Full control over Cerberus... then keeping the Collector Base shouldn't have been a suggestion.  The fact that you could say "no" shows the full extent of TIM's "control".  Any other Cerberus group member could say "no" to TIM as easily as you did.



TIM wants a return on investment so he's not quick to throw away an operation if someone does something stupid.

You must have missed the part where people pointed out how this wasnt a typical Cerberus operation, where Shepard was in charge and TIM was merely providing funding and information. They were working together, Shepard wasnt a member of Cerberus.



Besides which, if you are right and TIM doesnt have much control of the operations he funds and staffs then he is simply incompetent.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

anmiro wrote...

TIM has never even clearly stated what he intends to get out of the collector base. Cerberus's plan is like some thing out of the Aliens trilogy. "Hey maybe if we can isolate this alien species in a lab we can learn something useful from it. OH MY GOD IT ESCAPED AND KILLING EVERYONE!!!"

What did the learn? The Reapers are really dangerous. How is that helpful? Its not, but maybe if we try again will learn something else.

Did the first rocket get to the moon? : P

[PWENER]

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

PWENER wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

 the Alliance is simply stronger than Cerberus.

For now..... remember the Collector Base? 

You mean the one I blew up? Yeah, I have some nice memories of that place.

I disagree, but it's funny the way you say it. Like you don't care about the future of the galaxy or humanity.

[General User]

Cerberus or Alliance? The unaccountable super-state or it’s terrorist splinter group? That is not an easy choice (if it even is a choice to begin with). And the Council, a ridiculous body of institutionalized stupidity and/or racism, isn’t a heck of a lot better.
 
None of these bodies are exactly “rais(ing) a standard to which the wise and honest can repair.” It’s why I’m really hoping Shepard ends up building his/her own faction, a la Babylon 5, in ME3.

[PWENER]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

anmiro wrote...

TIM has never even clearly stated what he intends to get out of the collector base. Cerberus's plan is like some thing out of the Aliens trilogy. "Hey maybe if we can isolate this alien species in a lab we can learn something useful from it. OH MY GOD IT ESCAPED AND KILLING EVERYONE!!!"

What did the learn? The Reapers are really dangerous. How is that helpful? Its not, but maybe if we try again will learn something else.

Did the first rocket get to the moon? : P

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................................there was a hole.............................

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[Mr. Gogeta34]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Full control over Cerberus... then keeping the Collector Base shouldn't have been a suggestion.  The fact that you could say "no" shows the full extent of TIM's "control".  Any other Cerberus group member could say "no" to TIM as easily as you did.

TIM wants a return on investment so he's not quick to throw away an operation if someone does something stupid.

You must have missed the part where people pointed out how this wasnt a typical Cerberus operation, where Shepard was in charge and TIM was merely providing funding and information. They were working together, Shepard wasnt a member of Cerberus.

Besides which, if you are right and TIM doesnt have much control of the operations he funds and staffs then he is simply incompetent.

EDI's facts on Cerberus make it more than clear.  The individual groups have control over how a mission is done.

TIM isn't as much incompetent as just unwilling to do anything by himself.  He sends other people to do it... who in turn may or may not do it... or they'll try to do it in a way we find horrifying.

This isn't to say that TIM is sinless, but I think he's a smaller man than the legend lets on. 

[PWENER]

General User wrote...

Cerberus or Alliance? The unaccountable super-state or it’s terrorist splinter group? That is not an easy choice (if it even is a choice to begin with). And the Council, a ridiculous body of institutionalized stupidity and/or racism, isn’t a heck of a lot better.
 
None of these bodies are exactly “rais(ing) a standard to which the wise and honest can repair.” It’s why I’m really hoping Shepard ends up building his/her own faction, a la Babylon 5, in ME3.

What about funding?

Oh wait, videogame characters don't eat, ammo appears from nowhere into your gun after missions and "someone" cleans the ship (oh, that's Gardner and his invisible twin who actually works because he is always standing like a dork in the kitchen all day)........ my bad.

Modifié par PWENER, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

PWENER wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

anmiro wrote...

TIM has never even clearly stated what he intends to get out of the collector base. Cerberus's plan is like some thing out of the Aliens trilogy. "Hey maybe if we can isolate this alien species in a lab we can learn something useful from it. OH MY GOD IT ESCAPED AND KILLING EVERYONE!!!"

What did the learn? The Reapers are really dangerous. How is that helpful? Its not, but maybe if we try again will learn something else.

Did the first rocket get to the moon? : P

.....................................................................................

................................there was a hole.............................

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lol

[anmiro]

jollyorigins wrote...

i hate them both equally

Alliance is subject to the Council and Cerberus is subject to the Illusive Man. I have no confidence in either groups leadership. I hope in the final game we see Shepard put both groups in their place. 

Modifié par anmiro, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Sajuro]

PWENER wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

PWENER wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

 the Alliance is simply stronger than Cerberus.

For now..... remember the Collector Base? 

You mean the one I blew up? Yeah, I have some nice memories of that place.

I disagree, but it's funny the way you say it. Like you don't care about the future of the galaxy or humanity.

Nonsense, the collector base is only the first thing in a long line of things I plan to blow up when Mass Effect 3 rolls around :happy: some of them may even be reapers, hail our new alien overlords

[AdamNW]

PWENER wrote...

ThisIsMadness91 wrote...

PWENER wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

 the Alliance is simply stronger than Cerberus.

For now..... remember the Collector Base? 

You mean the one I blew up? Yeah, I have some nice memories of that place.

I disagree, but it's funny the way you say it. Like you don't care about the future of the galaxy or humanity.

Yeah, terrorist dominance is a pretty good deal.

[AntiChri5]

EDI's facts on Cerberus make it more than clear.  The individual groups have control over how a mission is done.



TIM isn't as much incompetent as just unwilling to do anything by himself.  He sends other people to do it... who in turn may or may not do it... or they'll try to do it in a way we find horrifying.



This isn't to say that TIM is sinless, but I think he's a smaller man than the legend lets on. 

But they still answer to TIMmy, EDI is clear on that, he still controls all Cerberus operations.

If you are right then its normal for a massive investmebt to simply say "no" when TIMmy gives them a direct order.

At which point he is not the leader of Cerberus at all, just some drunk guy in a chair with a cigarette who likes to sleep around.



TIM is either a monster or a useless puppet, you cant have it both ways.

If you dont care about whether or not he is a monster then fine, go ahead.

[General User]

PWENER wrote...

What about funding?

Oh wait, videogame characters don't eat, ammo appears from nowhere into your gun after missions and "someone" cleans the ship (oh, that's Gardner and his invisible twin who actually works because he is always standing like a dork in the kitchen all day)........ my bad.

I was coming at this from a philosophical angle, obviously you must work with Cerberus if you’re going to play ME2 (working with them is not the same as giving them your loyalty however…). If someone had any real moral objection to Cerberus (favorite uncle died on Pragia, etc.), well… there’s always Dragon Age.
 
My point was that none of the major organizations in ME2 is really worthy of loyalty. But with Liara as the new Shadow Broker, having Shepard build and fund his/her own faction/operations becomes, not only possible, but arguably the best choice.

[AntiChri5]

The Shadow Broker's resources were, at the very very least, equal to Cerberus's pre-Redemption.

Post-Redemption there is no doubting who has more resources, more comitment to galactic stability, more loaylty to Shepard and a greater commitment to stopping the Reapers.

[PWENER]

General User wrote...

PWENER wrote...

What about funding?

Oh wait, videogame characters don't eat, ammo appears from nowhere into your gun after missions and "someone" cleans the ship (oh, that's Gardner and his invisible twin who actually works because he is always standing like a dork in the kitchen all day)........ my bad.

I was coming at this from a philosophical angle, obviously you must work with Cerberus if you’re going to play ME2 (working with them is not the same as giving them your loyalty however…). If someone had any real moral objection to Cerberus (favorite uncle died on Pragia, etc.), well… there’s always Dragon Age.
 
My point was that none of the major organizations in ME2 is really worthy of loyalty. But with Liara as the new Shadow Broker, having Shepard build and fund his/her own faction/operations becomes, not only possible, but arguably the best choice.

Shadow Broker loyalty? I like it. I'd jump on it if it is possible. Screw Cerberus if this is possible.