PWENER wrote...
Shadow Broker loyalty? I like it. I'd jump on it if it is possible. Screw Cerberus if this is possible.
Plus, you'd get to sleep with the Shadow Broker alot more than you'd get to sleep with TIM.PWENER wrote...
General User wrote...
PWENER wrote...
What about funding?
Oh wait, videogame characters don't eat, ammo appears from nowhere into your gun after missions and "someone" cleans the ship (oh, that's Gardner and his invisible twin who actually works because he is always standing like a dork in the kitchen all day)........ my bad.
I was coming at this from a philosophical angle, obviously you must work with Cerberus if you’re going to play ME2 (working with them is not the same as giving them your loyalty however…). If someone had any real moral objection to Cerberus (favorite uncle died on Pragia, etc.), well… there’s always Dragon Age.
My point was that none of the major organizations in ME2 is really worthy of loyalty. But with Liara as the new Shadow Broker, having Shepard build and fund his/her own faction/operations becomes, not only possible, but arguably the best choice.
Shadow Broker loyalty? I like it. I'd jump on it if it is possible. Screw Cerberus if this is possible.
AntiChri5 wrote...
EDI's facts on Cerberus make it more than clear. The individual groups have control over how a mission is done.
TIM isn't as much incompetent as just unwilling to do anything by himself. He sends other people to do it... who in turn may or may not do it... or they'll try to do it in a way we find horrifying.
This isn't to say that TIM is sinless, but I think he's a smaller man than the legend lets on.
But they still answer to TIMmy, EDI is clear on that, he still controls all Cerberus operations.
If you are right then its normal for a massive investmebt to simply say "no" when TIMmy gives them a direct order.
At which point he is not the leader of Cerberus at all, just some drunk guy in a chair with a cigarette who likes to sleep around.
TIM is either a monster or a useless puppet, you cant have it both ways.
If you dont care about whether or not he is a monster then fine, go ahead.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:43 .
Sajuro wrote...
Plus, you'd get to sleep with the Shadow Broker alot more than you'd get to sleep with TIM.PWENER wrote...
General User wrote...
PWENER wrote...
What about funding?
Oh wait, videogame characters don't eat, ammo appears from nowhere into your gun after missions and "someone" cleans the ship (oh, that's Gardner and his invisible twin who actually works because he is always standing like a dork in the kitchen all day)........ my bad.
I was coming at this from a philosophical angle, obviously you must work with Cerberus if you’re going to play ME2 (working with them is not the same as giving them your loyalty however…). If someone had any real moral objection to Cerberus (favorite uncle died on Pragia, etc.), well… there’s always Dragon Age.
My point was that none of the major organizations in ME2 is really worthy of loyalty. But with Liara as the new Shadow Broker, having Shepard build and fund his/her own faction/operations becomes, not only possible, but arguably the best choice.
Shadow Broker loyalty? I like it. I'd jump on it if it is possible. Screw Cerberus if this is possible.
AntiChri5 wrote...
both ways.
Modifié par PWENER, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:48 .
They're "supposed" to answer to TIMmy. Like I said, and this has been demonstrated a number of times, the groups commissioned by Cerberus don't have to follow orders that TIM gives. He's not like Harbinger... he can't ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL
In the instance of someone saying "no" to TIM, that drunk guy in a chair sends people after said defector. That's how he maintains control. But by then the damage is already done.
What kind of abilities do you feel that TIM has?
AntiChri5 wrote...
If they are simply "supposed" to answer to TIMmy then he is not their leader, just a useless figurehead. If you do nit have practical control of an organisation you are not its leader. They do have to follow his orders, he just keeps his orders very vauge and flexible. So far, the only Cerberus Operatives who have openly disobeyed an order from TIM are Grayson and Miranda, neither of whom are a part of Cerberus anymore. If TIM doesnt even have the ability to issue orders to his subordinates then he is just a drunk guy in a chair.They're "supposed" to answer to TIMmy. Like I said, and this has been demonstrated a number of times, the groups commissioned by Cerberus don't have to follow orders that TIM gives. He's not like Harbinger... he can't ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL
In the instance of someone saying "no" to TIM, that drunk guy in a chair sends people after said defector. That's how he maintains control. But by then the damage is already done.
What kind of abilities do you feel that TIM has?
PWENER wrote...
Solution; Kill TIM and take over Cerberus with his identity. Just like Liara. If she can, Shepard can do better.
Modifié par betd2, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:55 .
He can issue orders, but he can't "make" those orders be followed. And if they are followed, he can't "make" them do it without costing lives etc. To put it another way:
They have to follow his orders.... or TIM will.... what?
PWENER wrote...
I disagree, but it's funny the way you say it. Like you don't care about the future of the galaxy or humanity.
!
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
He can issue orders, but he can't "make" those orders be followed. And if they are followed, he can't "make" them do it without costing lives etc. To put it another way:
They have to follow his orders.... or TIM will.... what?
ThisIsMadness91 wrote...
I care. It's just that Cerberus was being selfish and wasn't prepared to share its new toys with the other species in the galaxy. If they can't all learn to play nicely together, no new toys
Valizh wrote...
My loyalties lie with the Alliance. We might say that they are no better than Cerberus and that they never support Shepard but I stand with the Alliance not because I support thheir bureaucratic crap or the way they handle things but because they represent humanity and while they have an interest in the advancement of the human race, they are not extremist or ****-like as Cerberus is.
Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 26 septembre 2010 - 04:44 .
StarcloudSWG wrote...
Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
He can issue orders, but he can't "make" those orders be followed. And if they are followed, he can't "make" them do it without costing lives etc. To put it another way:
They have to follow his orders.... or TIM will.... what?
Or TIM will pull their funding and cost them their jobs, and possibly kill some of them.
TIM is bankrolling Cerberus' black projects. Scientists in the black projects do not get to publish papers or establish academic reputations or go to scientific conferences and talk about what they're doing. THey're utterly dependent on TIM for funding, for their jobs, etc.
That sounds about right and so far that is basically what he's done. But again for those scientists, on the ground he can only go off of their reports. If reports are sunshine and rainbows, TIM would think sunshine and rainbows.
What's my option C?
It's not that clear to me. It seems TIM always had an independent agenda. Cerberus went openly rogue only after things couldn't be hidden anymore. The Alliance could have started Pragia, or TIM on his own. Either fits the evidence.Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Alliance does it's share of questionable things such as starting Cerberus and telling them to start places like Pragia.Anacronian Stryx wrote...
The Alliance has done it's share of questionable things as well like "Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training" (BAaT) and Berzerker satellites.
Cerberus didn't become 'rogue' until shortly before ME1 started. The backstory of atrocities? Alliance responsibility as well.
No, TIM and Udina already have their heads up their respective asses.Sleepicub09 wrote...
honestly they both can shove a pole up their asses
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