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Now I know how the Original Creators at Westwood Studios Feel


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#101
Bryy_Miller

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Monica83 wrote...
New gameplay...


I keep hearing people complain about the "new gameplay" or "show us some gameplay". I really don't think people know what gameplay means. During the ME2 streams, there were tons of people complaining about the "lack of gameplay" during the interactions with characters. 

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You guys do realize the Bioware is doing exactly what Westwood did (which put them under).

They are making a costly Science Fiction MMO, and a FPS spinoff of Baldur's Gate.

Wait nevermind, they are doing a costly Sci_fi MMO and there was a hack and slash spinoff of Baldur's Gate back in the day but Bioware was uninvolved. NEVERMIND

If anything about the only thing you can say that is happening to Bioware is what happened to Treyarch, or Naughty Dog


Ya know, as much as I personally would hate to see Bioware go the way of Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood or Pandemic, I almost hope it does happen just so years from now I can laugh and point at people like you and say I told you so. 


Wait whut? Are you seriously that immature? You're hoping for the closing of a company, which means literally hundreds of jobs ending, just because somebody wrote something on an internet site that you disagreed with? 

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .


#102
ma.sc

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EA: We ruined Need For Speed with studio 'death march'

At least they learned their lesson. :innocent:

#103
CoS Sarah Jinstar

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Bryy_Miller wrote...


CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Ya know, as much as I personally would hate to see Bioware go the way of Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood or Pandemic, I almost hope it does happen just so years from now I can laugh and point at people like you and say I told you so. 


Wait whut? Are you seriously that immature? You're hoping for the closing of a company, which means literally hundreds of jobs ending, just because somebody wrote something on an internet site that you disagreed with? 


You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. We get it, you want to kiss the ground Gaider walks on. Let it go already.

#104
Onyx Jaguar

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Yeah, yeah whatever.

#105
Guest_Puddi III_*

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Another "EA is evil" rant, huh? I thought threads like these were supposed to get promptly and ignominiously locked.

#106
LokiHades

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Ya know, as much as I personally would hate to see Bioware go the way of Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood or Pandemic, I almost hope it does happen just so years from now I can laugh and point at people like you and say I told you so.

I find these words very immature and irresponsible. Bryy took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously, think before you say something. And think about how many good games we'll never see if they do as well.

On that note:

REPENT, THE END IS NIGH!

Is all I hear from doomsayers ever since ME2.

But seriously, I love Bioware. Both Mike and David went in and made this thread great.

Edit:

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...



You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when
the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. We
get it, you want to kiss the ground Gaider walks on. Let it go already.




It's not about kissing the ground Gaider walks on, it's just about how you're using the pretex that it's fine to wish misfortune on a large organization of people who have mouths to feed, over an Internet rant. That's kind've low, regardless of whether your context says "almost".

Modifié par LokiHades, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:49 .


#107
Onyx Jaguar

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filaminstrel wrote...

Another "EA is evil" rant, huh? I thought threads like these were supposed to get promptly and ignominiously locked.


Of course not, this one has proper content.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .


#108
Guest_Puddi III_*

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I know that on the NWN BioBoards, direct Atari bashing was pretty much off-limited, met with harsh warnings first, and lockdowns if the offense persisted.

#109
CoS Sarah Jinstar

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LokiHades wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Ya know, as much as I personally would hate to see Bioware go the way of Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood or Pandemic, I almost hope it does happen just so years from now I can laugh and point at people like you and say I told you so.

I find these words very immature and irresponsible. Bryy took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously, think before you say something. And think about how many good games we'll never see if they do as well.

On that note:

REPENT, THE END IS NIGH!

Is all I hear from doomsayers ever since ME2.

But seriously, I love Bioware. Both Mike and David went in and made this thread great.

Edit:

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...



You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when
the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. We
get it, you want to kiss the ground Gaider walks on. Let it go already.




It's not about kissing the ground Gaider walks on, it's just about how you're using the pretex that it's fine to wish misfortune on a large organization of people who have mouths to feed, over an Internet rant. That's kind've low, regardless of whether your context says "almost".


I just find it incredibly frustrating to see the same few regulars run into a thread and defend every bioware decision like their lives depended on it. Of course I wouldn't want to see Bioware get the axe, but seriously, it does get really old after awhile.

#110
Firky

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MacMichael wrote...
Aww, the memories.  And of course EA is EVIL!  Did you see Ultima 9?!  Did you?! :sick:  I still cry myself to sleep over what Ultima became.  Or maybe I would if I dwelled on it forever.  Fortunently, Bioware doesn't seem to have met the same fate as Origin did, though Origin did seem to perhaps be sliding toward oblivion before EA, maybe, but we'll just keep blaming EA anyway, since they certainly didn't help.  Yay for EA not being (as) evil anymore. :lol:


I loaded up U8 and went "No party?" and quit forever. So fickle! And speaking of crying, I played U7 about a year ago  and was literally in tears about 3 times. Poor Spark. Poor Tseramed. Rule Britannia. Isn't that ridiculous? 

(I have the 5.25" floppies on my shelf, don't pirate games, kiddies.) Also, Baldur's Gate is going to GoG, hooray!

Perhaps I should make an effort to link this back to the topic though...... We all know the early Ultimas were a labour of love. I certainly get the feeling that DA2 is the same, from what the developers say on the forums. That's the important thing, right? 

#111
LokiHades

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I just find it incredibly frustrating to see the same few regulars run into a thread and defend every bioware decision like their lives depended on it. Of course I wouldn't want to see Bioware get the axe, but seriously, it does get really old after awhile.


I can see where you're coming from, and of course, it isn't good too have too much defending either (APB is a good example). Not everyone is happy with the decisions, but we should keep what negativity we have to killing Darkspawn instead of each other and the team itself. Sorry if I came off as rude.

#112
21121313

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David Gaider wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Mr. Gaider, come on. We know you feed on our fear, but also our tears?
We're doomed.


We writers have always fed on your tears. The part where we get to enjoy watching people melodramatically throw themselves around the forums while they rend their shirts is just an added bonus.

I don't know what the OP really wants us to say. It's a win/win for the pessimist-- if we do go under for some reason, they get to blame either EA or our hubris. If we don't, they get to blame the unwashed masses for continuing to ruin their lives. So that'll be fun for them, barring the fact that they're not getting the exact kind of game they apparently want. Not that these people ever seem to, from all I've seen on my times on the forums.

At any rate, I hope they do find a game that's exactly what they want. I'm not sure why it has to be ours-- and I'm not really sure where the OP gets his ideas on what DA2 is, to be honest, but then again I'm not sure any of us can discourage the doomsayers until and unless the game itself comes out. Then, of course, we'll have another completely different kind of doomsayer to contend with.

Exciting! :wizard:


It's about damn time i get to see someone from a development team actually come out and "trash" someone that's complaining about a game because it's not how they want it to be made. And no, this isn't the doomsayer slamming the original doomslayer, either. I felt the same way about all the FFXIII complaints, tbqh. Just like DA:O and all it's DLC, i found FFXIII to be just as incredible an experience.

Then again, i tend to not to allow the haters and the hype to bother me. Some people do.

I happen to own all the Command and Conquer games released for the Sony format, btw. Some people actually do better playing these on consoles instead of on PCs. It doesn't matter if they were better or worse then the PC version....at least i got to play them.

As for EA themselves, well...managing to aquire(or however they merged) Bioware was like finding a lucky galleon as far as i'm concerned.

#113
Onyx Jaguar

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You say that now, but watch EA crumble and Bioware along with it! Unless they pull a THQ and sell Bioware to Curt Schilling. That crisis was averted. Kind of.

#114
FieryDove

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


I just find it incredibly frustrating to see the same few regulars run into a thread and defend every bioware decision like their lives depended on it. Of course I wouldn't want to see Bioware get the axe, but seriously, it does get really old after awhile.


While I agree with that, I just find it easier to ignore these people.

Pandemic, wow I thought no one knew about them...or cared.

Also What I hope is Bioware hits the lottery and buys themselves free of EA....Or better yet I hit the lottery and buy them. Posted Image

Seriously though...
I would never ever in a million years want them to be shut down even if they no longer make games I'm interested in. (I hope that never happens either).

#115
Onyx Jaguar

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I would speculate that Bioware's fate would have been worse off if its parent company did not sell them off to EA given the state of Pandemic at the time

#116
LokiHades

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would speculate that Bioware's fate would have been worse off if its parent company did not sell them off to EA given the state of Pandemic at the time



Agreed.

EA isn't as black a monster as everyone paints them to be, but at the same time, they're no White Knights. Yes they did acquisation attacks in the past. Yes they do have a horrible reputation for rushing certain games in favor of churning out as much money as possible (Spore, how butchered you were).

But they also often buy companies when their publishers are dying, and they also have funded projects, and respected the creative direction of teams in the past (though I admit I'm mixed when it comes to talking about them).

#117
mousestalker

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David Gaider wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...
It will be pretty disappointing if the DAO toolset is not upgraded for us after DA2 is released.   


I agree. That would be too bad. We'll find out after the game is released-- really the editor for DAO wouldn't have come out until well after the game was released if the PC version hadn't been delayed. But I imagine some people would look on any non-simultaneous editor release as evidence of a conspiracy.

I also suspect that, since the DAO editor is so close to what we're using, that someone will probably get it to work on their own even before we do anything-- but that's only because I believe in the intrepid-ness of modders. :)


We all know it to be a conspiracy. EA is merely the public face of the Stonecutters. You can not truthfully deny this. It's well known by those of us who have investigated the matter that EA employees are compelled to rob cavefish of their sight while on vacation. Further, Steve Gutenberg is the voice of Hawke.

We are so on to you.
:innocent:

#118
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

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YuniSticksitDeep wrote...

I would imagine they were compensated as was bioware, but you know, I have purchased nearly every single bioware related game they have made or have been attached to and guess what?

I feel very very let down at the direction DA2 is going, I saw the link where they suggested many of the changes in streamlining the game were budget driven, but didn't the first game do well?

Does (ANYONE) truly feel this new lean mean, feature stripped machine is going to be (Better)???

I miss BOO

I miss choice

I really really am going to miss the feeling I got when I had played as so many different Wardens.


It's September and the game isn't out until March and yet you are whining like a pathetic troll just because of the miniscule information we have so far about the game that you obviously don't like nor have properly read. *sighs*

Sorry but this post makes your OP even more laughable considering your comment about 'missing choice' already has been proven to be false seeing as they've already mentioned how Hawke can be played differently and thus we still do have choice. Besides the obvious 3 Hawkes am going to make to cover the 3 classes (obviously could go further with that alone if wanted to consider specializations am going to assume that there is still plenty of choices for us to make from a roleplay perspective that will add to the many variables you could have with DAO even just considering the fate of 4 individuals (Warden/Alistair/Anora/Loghain) and so I'll probably end up with more than 3 versions of Hawke. Oh wait your talking of the different 'origins' of Wardens. Wow, lets see apart from the prologue/Origins opening and maybe a tiny bit of variance depending on character interaction you got based on that during the game and when it comes to the 'boon' option at the end, there wasn't that much of a difference.

You miss BOO? Seriously? Go play Baldurs Gate again then, or go into either the DAO toolset or maybe the DA2 toolset when it gets released and create a mod where you get to add him in the game.

#119
Morroian

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. 

Just like it gets old when the same 5 people jump all over Bioware with the same criticisms of a game which is 6 months away from being released, criticisms based on very little info.

#120
AngryFrozenWater

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Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. 

Just like it gets old when the same 5 people jump all over Bioware with the same criticisms of a game which is 6 months away from being released, criticisms based on very little info.

Here's another one. Caught in action. This time generalizing critique of those with another opinion without having access to said critique.

#121
Marionetten

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...



The real question is what is the story behind the demise of Bullfrog!


EA reassigned the remnants to a Harry Potter game and killed off Dungeon Keeper 3.



We should be happy EA hasn't reassigned BioWare to a Twilight RPG... yet.

#122
FieryDove

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LokiHades wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would speculate that Bioware's fate would have been worse off if its parent company did not sell them off to EA given the state of Pandemic at the time



Agreed.

EA isn't as black a monster as everyone paints them to be, but at the same time, they're no White Knights. Yes they did acquisation attacks in the past. Yes they do have a horrible reputation for rushing certain games in favor of churning out as much money as possible (Spore, how butchered you were).

But they also often buy companies when their publishers are dying, and they also have funded projects, and respected the creative direction of teams in the past (though I admit I'm mixed when it comes to talking about them).


John Riccitiello was president and chief operating officer of EA, left and founded Elevation Partners.
EP talked Bioware and Pandemic merging into VG Holding Corp. Then Mr. Riccitiello left EP and re-joined EA to become CEO.  EA then buys out the merged Bioware/Pandemic.

I said it when it was announced and will say it again...It's all fishy.

Then Pandemic is shut down, gone, poof -par for the course. It's no wonder some people worry about Bio's fate.
I do think it's a safe bet as long as Mr. Riccitello is around Bioware should be ok (for the most part). That's just the impression reading the saga over the years.

As to Elevation Partners they have always leaked money like water...even recently.
Is it a good thing that EA is in control? Who can say, only time will tell all.

Going by EA's past history and seeing recent releases from Bio does make me a bit uneasy.
I still miss Bullfrog though...sniff.

Modifié par FieryDove, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:55 .


#123
Mubar

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Marionetten wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

The real question is what is the story behind the demise of Bullfrog!

EA reassigned the remnants to a Harry Potter game and killed off Dungeon Keeper 3.

We should be happy EA hasn't reassigned BioWare to a Twilight RPG... yet.



DO NOT SAY SUCH THINGS Posted Image NEVER.
I know EA is evil but even they are not that sadistic to bucher Bioware for money...........Posted Image oh no.The blight is upon us!

#124
EmperorSahlertz

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EA isn't so bad. .. It could have been Activision who bought BioWare.......... At least EA usually shows some respect to the companies they buy by letting them have some autonomy. Activision is just pure, grade A, raw ****...

#125
Krytheos

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CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

LokiHades wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Ya know, as much as I personally would hate to see Bioware go the way of Origin Systems, Bullfrog, Westwood or Pandemic, I almost hope it does happen just so years from now I can laugh and point at people like you and say I told you so.

I find these words very immature and irresponsible. Bryy took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously, think before you say something. And think about how many good games we'll never see if they do as well.

On that note:

REPENT, THE END IS NIGH!

Is all I hear from doomsayers ever since ME2.

But seriously, I love Bioware. Both Mike and David went in and made this thread great.

Edit:

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...



You miss the almost hope part or what? It gets a little old when
the same 5 people jump all over anyone with any sort of criticism. We
get it, you want to kiss the ground Gaider walks on. Let it go already.




It's not about kissing the ground Gaider walks on, it's just about how you're using the pretex that it's fine to wish misfortune on a large organization of people who have mouths to feed, over an Internet rant. That's kind've low, regardless of whether your context says "almost".


I just find it incredibly frustrating to see the same few regulars run into a thread and defend every bioware decision like their lives depended on it. Of course I wouldn't want to see Bioware get the axe, but seriously, it does get really old after awhile.


Yet time and time again, there have been many posts of yours decrying the entirety of DA2's direction, debasing other people's opinions, or otherwise being a generally immature and unlikeable person to argue with due to this. If you disagree with a game's direct, that is your choice and that is perfectly reasonable, and fine; however, there is a right for those who are 'regulars' to defend the decisions due to their personal choice and preference.

Freedom of speech is a privilege, not a right, after all, and every person has the right to defend a companies decisions as much as the next person would, since it is of their sound mind and privilege to do so. If it gets old after awhile, then simply stop arguing with them and let them go on whatever tangent that they wish to go on against you, and let it die.

The immaturity comes in when you start debasing their opinions -- debasing facts is fine, since some facts they may or may not have gotten wrong or incorrect -- but their opinions are their own, and no one technically has the right to debase them, but I suppose you are -free- to, it is a privilege, after all.

Insulting someone else over their opinions goes into rather distasteful territory; you're free to disagree with them, surely, but insulting them just seems in terrible, childish taste.

As well, 'almost hoping' is one parsec away from 'hoping.' They are a milisecond from one another, and irregardless of 'almost' it means you are close to actually 'hoping' hundreds of people who have give us quality games one after the other goes down into the fishhole lose their jobs; untold number of those people may not find another job they like to work at either, some of them may be forced to go unemployed until they find work, others might be able to snag a job elsewhere. Getting a job these days is quite difficult, and to 'almost' hope hundreds of them do lose a job they love to do, a job they work hard at to give us quality styled games, is just as immature and childish as hoping.

'almost' is a parsec from 'hoping', and in my humble opinion, it is no different than wishing hundreds of people lose their jobs, perhaps some losing their homes and families, or others being put on the street; some will find jobs elsewhere, but not all of them will. Unemployment of any kind can destroy families.

So..'almost' hoping they go down is like 'almost' hoping families are destroyed, 'almost' hoping they're forced out onto the street. And from where I stand, 'almost' is just as childish as hoping.