183 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Oh I don't know about that, seems at couple went back and forth with Sylvius over a couple topics for a couple pages if my recollection is correct.

Sylvius has a stance, he defends it with points and such. He's managed to convince me of a few things.  He doesn't just go "Oh look, Bioware fanboys! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!" or insult Gaider. There's such things as debate on a forum, contrary to your belief that anybody who debates for Bioware is a blind fanboy.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 septembre 2010 - 12:38 .

[Morroian]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Yes some of it is negative, keep in
mind people have different likes and dislikes and expectations. Whats
the point of having discussion forums if anyone who has any criticism is
jumped all over by the fan briggade?

I don't see someone like Sylvius being jumped all over.
He's critical but in a reasoned objective manner and he doesn't spam
the Board with needless repetitive criticisms, unlike others.

Oh I don't know about that, seems at couple went back and forth with Sylvius over a couple topics for a couple pages if my recollection is correct.

He's not jumped all over though, people debate with him at a reasonable level.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Oh I don't know about that, seems at couple went back and forth with Sylvius over a couple topics for a couple pages if my recollection is correct.

Sylvius has a stance, he defends it with points and such. He's managed to convince me of a few things.  He doesn't just go "Oh look, Bioware fanboys! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!" or insult Gaider. There's such things as debate on a forum, contrary to your belief that anybody who debates for Bioware is a blind fanboy.

Dave maybe Canadian but remarkably he has a good point.  Sylvius is a cool dude.  I don't share his views but he is a composed and respectful person.  To lump him into the same group as others that don't like the direction of DA2 is no different from lumping everyone who doesn't have a problem with the current direction into mindless fanbios!!!1!1! or the dreaded console gamers! OH NOES!

[AmstradHero]

And therein lies the distinction. Being able to debate points of design in terms of their value and how they add or detract to the game is interesting, but only if it is done in manner that recognises the difference between design considerations and personal preferences. Sylvius has some very distinct desires when it comes to RPGs, and likes to push those as being the epitome of what RPG games should contain. I disagree with him on some points, but I respect that he has an opinion that differs to mine. I also agree with him on some points.

Sarah, I've noticed that you frequently resort to meaningless rhetoric like "the game is being dumbed down" or equivalent phrases. Then there are other people who refuse to accept that the points they are arguing are personal preference and not design issues that harm the game in general, but are merely things that they dislike. Neither of these are helpful, nor do they make for interesting discussion.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 27 septembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Oh I don't know about that, seems at couple went back and forth with Sylvius over a couple topics for a couple pages if my recollection is correct.

Sylvius has a stance, he defends it with points and such. He's managed to convince me of a few things.  He doesn't just go "Oh look, Bioware fanboys! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!" or insult Gaider. There's such things as debate on a forum, contrary to your belief that anybody who debates for Bioware is a blind fanboy.

I don't do that either cept for a select few that manage to show up in every thread with a shred of criticism in it so in a way its kinda a double edge sword really. I'm not completely innocent myself and not always the most elegant in responses but at the end of the day, the only reason I bother to post at all is in hoping to see Bioware's titles at least in some way retain some of the old school trapings so that everyone can at least get something out of them that they enjoy. In regards to Mr Gaider, it comes down to atitude, when you treat the members of your fanbase that question a design decision with snark on a regular basis, don't expect to be very respected.

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
In regards to Mr Gaider, it comes down to atitude, when you treat the members of your fanbase that question a design decision with snark on a regular basis, don't expect to be very respected.

Coming from you, I find that ironic.

Sadly, it seems like some people take their rudeness as a given-- something that other people are just supposed to ignore as par for the course, and then they act surprised or defensive when someone calls them on it, like they're suddenly being oppressed by the "legions of fanboys".

Or, you know, you could just be a jerk.

I'm always willing to offer respect when it's offered in return. If someone wants to accuse me of being snarky or condescending because I refuse to ignore their rudeness-- I have no problem with that, as I'm fully aware of just how often I have polite, enlightening conversations with very reasonable folks on these forums (whether they are critical or not) and the ones doing all the finger-pointing just happen to also be the ones that don't do any of the listening and weren't interested in having an actual conversation in the first place.

[Enshaid]

David Gaider wrote...
Coming from you, I find that ironic.

Sadly, it seems like some people take their rudeness as a given-- something that other people are just supposed to ignore as par for the course, and then they act surprised or defensive when someone calls them on it, like they're suddenly being oppressed by the "legions of fanboys".

Or, you know, you could just be a jerk.

I'm always willing to offer respect when it's offered in return. If someone wants to accuse me of being snarky or condescending because I refuse to ignore their rudeness-- I have no problem with that, as I'm fully aware of just how often I have polite, enlightening conversations with very reasonable folks on these forums (whether they are critical or not) and the ones doing all the finger-pointing just happen to also be the ones that don't do any of the listening and weren't interested in having an actual conversation in the first place.

Awww I still love you Dave. *hugz*

[The Spectaculous Goatman]

Freek on a Leesh wrote...
Awww I still love you Dave. *hugz*

I support David Gaider romance.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
In regards to Mr Gaider, it comes down to atitude, when you treat the members of your fanbase that question a design decision with snark on a regular basis, don't expect to be very respected.

Coming from you, I find that ironic.

Sadly, it seems like some people take their rudeness as a given-- something that other people are just supposed to ignore as par for the course, and then they act surprised or defensive when someone calls them on it, like they're suddenly being oppressed by the "legions of fanboys".

Or, you know, you could just be a jerk.

I'm always willing to offer respect when it's offered in return. If someone wants to accuse me of being snarky or condescending because I refuse to ignore their rudeness-- I have no problem with that, as I'm fully aware of just how often I have polite, enlightening conversations with very reasonable folks on these forums (whether they are critical or not) and the ones doing all the finger-pointing just happen to also be the ones that don't do any of the listening and weren't interested in having an actual conversation in the first place.

I very well could be just a jerk. Appreciate that. Honestly I don't think I've ever read a reply from you towards someone that did not exactly like how something was implemented or a change or what have you, without the snark in the first place, then again its very possible that I may have missed it in the past.

Not that I don't believe that you can be a pleasent conversation partner, just that its not often I see it and not necessarily in replies to me.

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Not that I don't believe that you can be a pleasent conversation partner, just that its not often I see it and not necessarily in replies to me.

I don't know what to tell you. It happens quite frequently on these forums, in my experience. Perhaps it's a case of seeing only what you want to see? Or perhaps it's a case of you only spending time in threads where people are trading insults like "fanboy" and "troll" and then someone pulls out the PC elitist card and starts referring to console users as idiots and "ADHD kiddies" like that's just their honest appraisal and not intended to actually offend anyone?

Clearly it's not just you that's doing this, Sarah, but I do tend to see you right in the middle of these exchanges when they happen-- and you're almost always acting innocent. So you'll have to forgive my dubiousness regarding any assessment of my interactions on the forum when you're so clearly unwilling/unable to do the same for yourself.

Or perhaps it's an honest mistake. I guess we'll see.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Not that I don't believe that you can be a pleasent conversation partner, just that its not often I see it and not necessarily in replies to me.

I don't know what to tell you. It happens quite frequently on these forums, in my experience. Perhaps it's a case of seeing only what you want to see? Or perhaps it's a case of you only spending time in threads where people are trading insults like "fanboy" and "troll" and then someone pulls out the PC elitist card and starts referring to console users as idiots and "ADHD kiddies" like that's just their honest appraisal and not intended to actually offend anyone?

Clearly it's not just you that's doing this, Sarah, but I do tend to see you right in the middle of these exchanges when they happen-- and you're almost always acting innocent. So you'll have to forgive my dubiousness regarding any assessment of my interactions on the forum when you're so clearly unwilling/unable to do the same for yourself.

Or perhaps it's an honest mistake. I guess we'll see.

I have to admit, those are the threads that I actually pay the most attention to because at the very least they're entertaining, so that very well could be why that would be your impression and vice versa. While it may not always be the friendliest wording I would hope you could at least see where a primarily PC RPG'er is coming from though, that alot of times, be it an interface or system that would work perfectly on PC, won't work quite as well on a console and vice versa and with the cost of development these days, oft times developers tend to just slap the console gui into the PC sku to save time and money, and thats more than likely where the term "dumbing down" comes in.  Obvlion was a perfect example of this as the PC GUI was down right atrocious out of the box .

So obviously people might jump to conclusions upon learing DA2 lead sku isn't the PC and have reservations about changes. When you add in all the mentions of ME2 influences, those not fond of ME2 have even more speculation to fuel doubts.

Like I said, I'm not always the most elegant in getting my point across and I'm adult enough to admit that. However a little communication goes a long way to putting out the flames so to speak and getting everyone on the same page.

[Beerfish]

it seems like some people take their rudeness as a given-- something that other people are just supposed to ignore as par for the course, and then they act surprised or defensive when someone calls them on it, like they're suddenly being oppressed by the "legions of fanboys".



Truer words have never been spoken.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, I'm not always the most elegant in getting my point across and I'm adult enough to admit that. However a little communication goes a long way to putting out the flames so to speak and getting everyone on the same page.

Come on Sarah, you have to realize that implying Mass Effect 2 fans have mental disorders and newer fans should have less influence than older fans isn't getting your point across.....it is almost ensuring that your point will be over looked. Honestly that type of name calling is beneath you.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

DespiertaLosNinos wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Like I said, I'm not always the most elegant in getting my point across and I'm adult enough to admit that. However a little communication goes a long way to putting out the flames so to speak and getting everyone on the same page.

Come on Sarah, you have to realize that implying Mass Effect 2 fans have mental disorders and newer fans should have less influence than older fans isn't getting your point across.....it is almost ensuring that your point will be over looked. Honestly that type of name calling is beneath you.

Its my opinion that ME2 is a pretty stripped down game that resembles a 3rd person shooter more than a deep complex rpg, sure the ADHD comment was over the top, but to be honest a large portion of today's fanbase prolly wouldn't appreciate a complex rpg in the first place. Whether thats 100% accurate or not is obviously debatable. Though its not much of a stretch to see that there isn't very many complex rpg's being made these days. It'd just be nice if the older fans got some love as well is all I was getting at.

[Brockololly]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So obviously people might jump to conclusions upon learing DA2 lead sku isn't the PC and have reservations about changes. When you add in all the mentions of ME2 influences, those not fond of ME2 have even more speculation to fuel doubts.

Heh- as a fellow PC gamer not too keen on shoddy multiplatform ports, I'm simply taking everything DA2 related with a massive grain of salt for the time being since most everything outside of the forums being said about the game is marketing bluster it would seem. And most of the stuff the devs try to explain sounds better than marketing catchphrases.

So yeah...as the resident "BioWare should just let the gameplay speak for itself and RELEASE GAMEPLAY VIDEOS" guy, I'll start freaking if the PC gameplay footage looks like its developed a terminal case of console-itis.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Brockololly wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
So obviously people might jump to conclusions upon learing DA2 lead sku isn't the PC and have reservations about changes. When you add in all the mentions of ME2 influences, those not fond of ME2 have even more speculation to fuel doubts.

Heh- as a fellow PC gamer not too keen on shoddy multiplatform ports, I'm simply taking everything DA2 related with a massive grain of salt for the time being since most everything outside of the forums being said about the game is marketing bluster it would seem. And most of the stuff the devs try to explain sounds better than marketing catchphrases.

So yeah...as the resident "BioWare should just let the gameplay speak for itself and RELEASE GAMEPLAY VIDEOS" guy, I'll start freaking if the PC gameplay footage looks like its developed a terminal case of console-itis.

Agreed 110% Brock. Seeing some PC footage of actual gameplay would most certainly clear things up.

[throAU]

Faust1979 wrote...

EA getting Bioware is a good thing. What is so bad about having more money? I see some people complain like getting more money is a bad thing. More money means they have more to spend on games and more money also means better marketing. So why is EA/Bioware a bad thing? I also see some people complain about the the companies that went under but you never see them talk about the ones that flourish.

Getting a lot more money can, and has previously meant less focus on making a good game that has to stand up on its gameplay merits, and more focus on "oooh shiny!" (pre-rendered animation for publicity, etc).

Ultima 9 had one of the biggest budgets in video game history if i recall due to Origin being freshly purchased and flush with EA cash.  It was a steaming pile of excrement...

Having seen so many franchises destroyed by EA in the past (around the 2000 mark) i actually swore to never purchase another EA game again.  And did not, between about 2001 and 2010.  But I'm a massive Bioware fan so i did end up buying DAO.  So far so good.

I really hope DA2 doesn't suck, so far Bioware's track record has been pretty impeccable - and that track record (I own and enjoyed BG1/2/NWN1/NWN2 and the expansions) was the entire reason I purchased DAO without hesitation.

Modifié par throAU, 27 septembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Riona45]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Its my opinion that ME2 is a pretty stripped down game that resembles a 3rd person shooter more than a deep complex rpg, sure the ADHD comment was over the top...

Over the top?  It's just downright offensive, and you trivialize the suffering that people who actually have ADHD have to deal with.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Riona45 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Its my opinion that ME2 is a pretty stripped down game that resembles a 3rd person shooter more than a deep complex rpg, sure the ADHD comment was over the top...

Over the top?  It's just downright offensive, and you trivialize the suffering that people who actually have ADHD have to deal with.

What isn't offensive these days. Seriously some of you have extremely thin shells.

[jpfinch]

Not to play devil's advocate, but as some with ADHD I am NOT offended. Furthermore, I find it quite impossible to describe my experiences as "suffering." But i think that's mostly because I'm so easily distrac---Ooh, the cookies are done!

[Riona45]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
What isn't offensive these days. Seriously some of you have extremely thin shells.

That response is so very you.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Riona45 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
What isn't offensive these days. Seriously some of you have extremely thin shells.

That response is so very you.

Never said I was anything but me. But I still stand by what I said, if some off hand comment on an internet game forum is going to seriously offend you, I'd hate to be around when you watch a news cast or read a newspaper. Its quite sad how much the politically correct movement has turned so many people into being offended at the drop of a hat these days. Hows that hopey changy thing working out anyways?

[AlanC9]

Sarah, Sarah.....did you really have to do your Palin impression there? You're plenty obnoxious without it, and you don't need to do covers.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 septembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Schneidend]

scyphozoa wrote...

Every Bioware game you love is attached to a publisher,

Buldur's Gate 1+2 - Black Isle/ Interplay
Neverwinter Nights - Atari
KOTOR - LucasArts
Jade Empire - 2K
Mass Effect 1 - Microsoft Games
DAO/ME2 - EA

Owned. 'Nuff said.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sarah, Sarah.....did you really have to do your Palin impression there? You're plenty obnoxious without it, and you don't need to do covers.

Psaw I happen to agree with her, at least on that point, but then again its pretty off topic. Glad you think I'm obnoxious, I think you're just a sweetheart yourself.