128 réponses à ce sujet

[charmingcharlie]

ReconTeam wrote...

And why wouldn't Microsoft let it "slide" providing some deals are made?

Why not show us why they "would" let it slide for Mass Effect 3.  I have already shown you that they are not letting it slide for iD and this will cause the xbox version to be graphically inferior to the PC/PS3 version.  The fact is MS knows that Bioware isn't going to turn it's nose up at 1 million plus sales on the xbox just because they have to "lower" the quality to fit it on 2 discs.

Now maybe if ME 3 had been a PS3 exclusive a "deal" could have been done similar to FF XIII but there really is no reason for Microsoft to offer bioware a deal.  Infact it would actually harm MS to start offering certain developers a deal on the multidisc royalties.  If they start offering Bioware a deal then what about the next company that wants to do a three disc game ?

Like it or not MS is not going to do any deal with Bioware to allow them to do a 3 - 4 disc game.  There is nothing to stop Bioware making Mass Effect 3 as a 4 disc game but as I said in an earlier post the royalty fees on a 3 - 4 disc game make it uneconomical.

[clennon8]

I just don't see how a 2-disc ME3 can give us a satisfying conclusion. A lot of stuff will have to be short-shrifted.

[Iniquities]

I don't get what would be so wrong about multiple discs. (Mainly 'cause I'm a PS3 owner ) But honestly, I'd rather a longer, richer, more flushed out game. It's either spend $60 on a rushed game and ending, or spend $60 on a longer, deeper storyline.



Besides, if you're actually complaining about changing the disc every few hours, then you most likely need the exercise anyway.

[Valakas]

charmingcharlie wrote...



If Microsoft are not going to let it "slide" for iD then they sure as hell won't let it "slide" for Bioware either.  Now for those going "oh what about FF XIII" that was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive I believe and MS obviously gave Square Enix a deal to encourage them to bring it to the 360.  I also see people using "Lost Odyssey" which was published by Microsoft so the extra royalty fees for 3 discs is irrelevant.

Star Ocean: Last Hope

That game wasn't a SONY exclusive like FF and it wasn't published by MS.

[cerberus1701]

Valakas wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...



If Microsoft are not going to let it "slide" for iD then they sure as hell won't let it "slide" for Bioware either.  Now for those going "oh what about FF XIII" that was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive I believe and MS obviously gave Square Enix a deal to encourage them to bring it to the 360.  I also see people using "Lost Odyssey" which was published by Microsoft so the extra royalty fees for 3 discs is irrelevant.

Star Ocean: Last Hope

That game wasn't a SONY exclusive like FF and it wasn't published by MS.

Indeed.

His claim is still disproven.

Further, as to why they might "let it slide?"

To paraphrase an M$ spokesman: "Xbox is still the only format where you can experience the entire Mass Effect story.

To give up any real claim to Mass Effect  as a 360 (ideal, if not "exclusive" title) because of some nominal "3rd disc" royalties? To basically HAND the final chapter of the game to the Playstation?

Never. Happen.

If BW's final cut of the game were 3 or 4 discs Microsoft  would let it go. They might not like losing out on the royalties from the additional disc, but they'd despise handing Sony a PR coup worthy of its own Kevin Butler commercial even less.

[Loerwyn]

cerberus1701 wrote...
To paraphrase an M$ spokesman: "Xbox is still the only format where you can experience the entire Mass Effect story.

And that same spokesman is completely wrong.

Mass Effect: Galaxy? Apple devices only.
The books? eReaders and physical copies only.
Same goes for all the comics, too.

[cerberus1701]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...
To paraphrase an M$ spokesman: "Xbox is still the only format where you can experience the entire Mass Effect story.

And that same spokesman is completely wrong.

Mass Effect: Galaxy? Apple devices only.
The books? eReaders and physical copies only.
Same goes for all the comics, too.

He's not wrong regarding the venue he's actually talking about: video games. I don't quite count "Galaxy" as anything but a time killer for your phone. It is compared to Mass Effect what Plankton is compared to a Cheetah.

[Loerwyn]

cerberus1701 wrote...
He's not wrong regarding the venue he's actually talking about: video games. I don't quite count "Galaxy" as anything but a time killer for your phone. It is compared to Mass Effect what Plankton is compared to a Cheetah.

He's also wrong because the PC has both games.

Your thoughts on Galaxy are irrelevant, though. It's a Mass Effect game, whether you think it is or not.

[AntiChri5]

The amount which Mass Effect Galaxy sucks ass (i have it, i know) doesnt change the fact that it is Mass Effect, and it was made by BioWare.

[Inquisitor Recon]

charmingcharlie wrote...
Why not show us why they "would" let it slide for Mass Effect 3. I have already shown you that they are not letting it slide for iD and this will cause the xbox version to be graphically inferior to the PC/PS3 version. The fact is MS knows that Bioware isn't going to turn it's nose up at 1 million plus sales on the xbox just because they have to "lower" the quality to fit it on 2 discs.

Now maybe if ME 3 had been a PS3 exclusive a "deal" could have been done similar to FF XIII but there really is no reason for Microsoft to offer bioware a deal. Infact it would actually harm MS to start offering certain developers a deal on the multidisc royalties. If they start offering Bioware a deal then what about the next company that wants to do a three disc game ?

Like it or not MS is not going to do any deal with Bioware to allow them to do a 3 - 4 disc game. There is nothing to stop Bioware making Mass Effect 3 as a 4 disc game but as I said in an earlier post the royalty fees on a 3 - 4 disc game make it uneconomical.

Now if they let it slide for some crappy FF game they would certainly let it slide for other companies if the money does the speaking. Of course it comes down to financial matters which are out of our control. Regardless who is to say some deal can't be worked at. Way back in 2005, Microsoft supposedly had a policy of cutting disk royalty costs for companies who promised 360 exclusive content, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible in 2010 with DLC. And with 120GB and 250GB hard drives existing for the 360 I hardly think the console is as limiting a factor as some of the PS3 fanboys or PC purists would believe.

Now I haven't heard any news about Rage in awhile but read the following. It seems the issue was less clear cut than you seem to think. http://www.shacknews...ticle.x?id=1001

[Edit 28 Sept 2010: Removed comment about another poster. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[cerberus1701]

Technically he may be....But is he wrong in any truly RELEVANT fashion in the venue he's discussing?



No.

[Valakas]

ReconTeam wrote...



Now I haven't heard any news about Rage in awhile but read the following. It seems the issue was less clear cut than you seem to think. http://www.shacknews...ticle.x?id=1001

"Microsoft does not charge a royalty per disc, but there is a cost of goods that goes along with manufacturing "



Anyway royalty fees or not, there ARE games with three or more disc on the 360, and those games cost $60, i don't think ME 3 should be any diferent.



But as i say, i would pay $100 for this game (or get it on steam =D), i don't care how much it cost as long as i twice as good as ME 2 and ME 1 put together, i don't want bioware to skimp on content.



Also i can play the whole game with one CD on PC, in 360 there should be available an option to install the four disc and play the whole game with one CD.



I think it's a little nonsensical to be swaping CD's when i have a 120GB harddrive =/

[Loerwyn]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Technically he may be....But is he wrong in any truly RELEVANT fashion in the venue he's discussing?

No.

Yes. He said the only way to get the "full" Mass Effect experience is the Xbox, when the PC has both of the Shepard titles released so far, including the same DLC. He's talking out of his backside, basically, because MS are sore. Mass Effect was one of the franchises that was, in terms of consoles, 360 only.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

3 is still good and I wouldn't mind playing 100 hours of ME3, hell I logged in 130 hours on Dragon Age plus Awakening. 100 hours would be a picnic.

[Pacifien]

I have removed posts where comments are about your opinion of the poster versus discussing the topic. Keep your opinions about other posters out of the forum.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:17 .

[Pacifien]

One thing to remember about ME2 being on two discs is that the story had to be altered to accommodate this. They can't design the game as if the player will install it to the hard drive because they have to keep in mind that not everyone does this with their consoles. So the more discs needed for the XBox 360 version, the more they will need to cut the story into parts to accommodate disc swaps.

[WilliamShatner]

charmingcharlie wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

And why wouldn't Microsoft let it "slide" providing some deals are made?

Why not show us why they "would" let it slide for Mass Effect 3.  I have already shown you that they are not letting it slide for iD and this will cause the xbox version to be graphically inferior to the PC/PS3 version.  The fact is MS knows that Bioware isn't going to turn it's nose up at 1 million plus sales on the xbox just because they have to "lower" the quality to fit it on 2 discs.

Now maybe if ME 3 had been a PS3 exclusive a "deal" could have been done similar to FF XIII but there really is no reason for Microsoft to offer bioware a deal.  Infact it would actually harm MS to start offering certain developers a deal on the multidisc royalties.  If they start offering Bioware a deal then what about the next company that wants to do a three disc game ?

Like it or not MS is not going to do any deal with Bioware to allow them to do a 3 - 4 disc game.  There is nothing to stop Bioware making Mass Effect 3 as a 4 disc game but as I said in an earlier post the royalty fees on a 3 - 4 disc game make it uneconomical.

95% of 3rd party cross platform games look and perform better on 360 than PS3 so I don't know where you are gettting this PS3 will look better theory from.  

The only games that look better on PS3 are those where the PS3 is the lead platform - Burnout Paradise, Final Fantasy XIII being top of the head examples.

[charmingcharlie]

WilliamShatner wrote...

95% of 3rd party cross platform games look and perform better on 360 than PS3 so I don't know where you are gettting this PS3 will look better theory from.  

The only games that look better on PS3 are those where the PS3 is the lead platform - Burnout Paradise, Final Fantasy XIII being top of the head examples.

I am getting the "PS3 will look better theory" from the actual developer of Rage, you know the guy that is MAKING the game.  Just in case you missed it this is what he said AGAIN :-

John Carmack stated .....

uncompressed build of Rage encompasses a terrabyte of data, and that iD
will need to use a "different type of compression" to fit the game on
two dual-layer Xbox 360 DVDs. 

"hero shots" should look similar, but Xbox 360 players might find a
rock that is more blurry when exploring the periphery of Rage's world.

http://www.shacknews...article.x/53976
http://www.joystiq.c...enes-same-as-p/

So in order for them to fit their game onto 2 DVD's the xbox version will suffer degraded graphics since they have to use a harsher compression.  He stated that they would have liked to have put Rage on 3 discs but "royalty" costs would be so high as to make that economically unfeasible.

Oh and ReconTeam I am aware of what Tim Willits said "AFTER THE FACT" who wants to bet MS had a few words with him after Carmack shot his mouth off eh ?  I personally believe Carmack was telling the truth and MS didn't like that so they put pressure on iD to "explain" the situation.  But at the end of the day it is up to you to decide who you believe.

I still think ME 3 will come on 2 discs, I personally don't want it too.  As I said I am a PC gamer and long abandoned plastic media for my games so the number of discs is irrelevant to me.  But I appreciate that this game will be designed with the limitations of DVD and due to cost and disk swapping reasons it will be kept to 2 discs whether we like it or not.

[Eradyn]

Why does Microsoft even demand extra royalty fees for larger games? You'd think bigger, better games would be something they'd want to encourage...or am I missing something? Seriously, this sucks *** that ME3 might very well be hampered because of this and the idea has me not just a little miffed.

[Inquisitor Recon]

charmingcharlie wrote...
Oh and ReconTeam I am aware of what Tim Willits said "AFTER THE FACT" who wants to bet MS had a few words with him after Carmack shot his mouth off eh ?  I personally believe Carmack was telling the truth and MS didn't like that so they put pressure on iD to "explain" the situation.  But at the end of the day it is up to you to decide who you believe.

I still think ME 3 will come on 2 discs, I personally don't want it too.  As I said I am a PC gamer and long abandoned plastic media for my games so the number of discs is irrelevant to me.  But I appreciate that this game will be designed with the limitations of DVD and due to cost and disk swapping reasons it will be kept to 2 discs whether we like it or not.

You know Microsoft isn't quite the evil soul-crushing corporation it used to be right? That title has gone over to Activision. I rather doubt heads rolled at Id over that comment, especially considering Carmack's reputation. I simply don't belive DVD space will be an excuse for any lackings in ME3.

And are some of us under the impression that ME3 will be using Rage's mega-textures and other stuff which is so space intensive in this case?

[charmingcharlie]

ReconTeam wrote...

You know Microsoft isn't quite the evil soul-crushing corporation it used to be right? That title has gone over to Activision. I rather doubt heads rolled at Id over that comment, especially considering Carmack's reputation. I simply don't belive DVD space will be an excuse for any lackings in ME3.

Oddly enough I don't believe Microsoft is a "evil soul-crushing corporation"  I believe MS is out to make money just like any corporation and they appreciate how they and their "console" is percieved is important therefore they will want to use whatever leverage they have to ensure their product is portrayed in a "good light".  It has nothing to do with them being "evil" and has everything to do with spin and PR.

ReconTeam wrote...

And are some of us under the impression that ME3 will be using Rage's mega-textures and other stuff which is so space intensive in this case?

In no post did I ever say that ME 3 would be using Rage's mega-textures.  I posted Carmacks statements with regards to Rage because it was an example of a game that the developers want on 3 discs but for "disputed" reasons is only going to be on 2 and thus the game will be compromised in some way compared to the PC/PS3 version which will not have this issue.

Do I think ME 3 will suffer because of the DVD limitations ? well of course I do when you have a limit something has to give.  If you had a 3 disc game you could have more variety, better quality textures and a more indepth story.  If you need an example just look at the difference between ME 1 and ME 2.  In ME 1 there was an awful lot of duplication all the bases were carbon copies of each other, no variety whatsoever that had to be down to the fact they wanted to keep it on 1 disc.  Now look at ME 2 and the vast variety of locations, there is hardly any duplication of the levels or bases.  That was achieved because they went from 1 disc to 2 discs, I wonder what they could achieve if they went from 2 discs too 3 discs ?

But I appreciate there are financial issues involved in going onto 3 discs so I suspect it won't happen  There is nothing we can do about it so we should just enjoy what we get rather than lamenting on what "could have been".

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Yet the finanical issues haven't held back other companies from releasing 3 disc games evidently. And lets consider how much work Bioware already has to do just to fill up two DVDs. I imagine time will be more of a constraining factor than DVD storage capacity.

And even if they did have until late 2012 to work on it, who is to say by then Microsoft will still have these supposedly outrageously high royalty fees or won't allow it to be released digitally with their games on demand service? And nothing prevents Bioware from doing what they did with that Cerberus Network.