29 réponses à ce sujet

[Jon Jern_]

 I'm going to be honest, I haven't made a true Rogue. I've made about three archer elven/human rogues, but never a Dual Wielder using momentum and etc. So I'm trying right now and the DPS is insane. With momentum and riposte and stealth combined, I'm able to take down mages before they can even cast a spell.

But my health isn't really working for me. While I take down enemies very fast and very deadly, I seem to lose alot of health very fast. Here are my current stats right now :

Strength


18

+3




Dexterity


35

+5




Willpower


18

+1




Magic


14

+1




Cunning


36

+1




Constitution


12

+1

I know Dexterity is supposed to make dodge attacks harder, but I like to keep my Rogue focused on damage, so I'm pumping alot into cunning lately. I was thinking of even going for Contsitution, but quickly ruled that out. So to solve my little dilemma, should I just start focusing on Dexerity to keep my health at a good level? Or maybe I need to find a more suitable tank? Right now I switch between Alistair and Shale, but enemies still find a way to attack me. I think that's my problem. So if someone can explain to me how to get the Tank to... Well, tank, than maybe my problem will be solved.

Here's my current team :

My City Elf DW Rogue
Leliana for Archering/Morrigan for offensive mage
Wynne for support and healing
Alistar for Tank/Shale for Tank

[Elhanan]

I would take STR to at least 20 for the best light armors, DEX to 36 for all talents, and WILL to 20. But overall for a Cunning build, it looks good.

My guess is that you are under-armored, so getting Felon's Coat or Lil Song DLC armor should patch that hole in your health loss.

[chefbobby203]

Rank 3 stealth allows you to use it during combat which will drop threat on you. I find this allows me to continuously backstab without a lot of tactical pausing

[kombra]

A high defense rating works extremely well in avoiding damage. 140 would be a good value to aim for. This is better than having armor. At low defense levels, putting points in Dex vs. Con is about a wash (in terms of survivability), at high defense levels, Dex is much better.



Stealth drops all threat, make sure you have level 4 (this is also really handy in getting enemies to their back to you).



Most activated warrior talents are bugged and don't draw any threat, about the only thing that really works is Taunt.

[Elhanan]

kombra wrote...

A high defense rating works extremely well in avoiding damage. 140 would be a good value to aim for. This is better than having armor. At low defense levels, putting points in Dex vs. Con is about a wash (in terms of survivability), at high defense levels, Dex is much better.

This is in error, IMO. Defense lower the chance of being hit, but requires scores as mentioned. To get such scores requires high DEX which may not be available to late in the game. Armor reduces dmg, and Dodge also lowers the chance of being hit, but requires a lesser score, I believe. Here is some data:

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Defense

Stealth drops all threat, make sure you have level 4 (this is also really handy in getting enemies to their back to you).

Most activated warrior talents are bugged and don't draw any threat, about the only thing that really works is Taunt.

I agree w/Stealth (4), and skip all the agro/threat talents w/o problems.

[termokanden]

I would take STR to at least 20 for the best light armors, DEX to 36 for all talents, and WILL to 20. But overall for a Cunning build, it looks good.

I wouldn't do that. You can get away with starting strength if you just equip some strength items that are good anyway.

At 18 strength you need just one of them. There's a +2 dex/+2 str ring. Actually there's more than one of those. There's also Andruil's Blessing and Key to the City. Like I said, you will want to use these items anyway.

I'd definitely call it a mistake to boost strength further.

As for willpower, I don't think that's going to help against being hit too much.

This is in error, IMO. Defense lower the chance of being hit, but requires scores as mentioned. To get such scores requires high DEX which may not be available to late in the game. Armor reduces dmg, and Dodge also lowers the chance of being hit, but requires a lesser score, I believe. Here is some data:

Where's the error. I think even low amounts of dex will decrease the chance to be hit by most enemies. Or am I wrong?

Anyway when you get very high dex, you can only really be hit by enemies using certain special abilities that always hit. Dex luckily boosts physical resistance as well, which helps against some of those.

I'm a big fan of dex for rogues. I stopped at exactly 22 cunning just to have all levels of stealth. By the way, my rogue still does excellent damage. I ran some tests with high cunning/low dex and high dex/low cunning at level 20 in Golems, and I didn't think the extra damage was really worth it, considering you just CAN'T backstab all the time. The dex rogue just did a better job when I tried it.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 septembre 2010 - 12:44 .

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

I wouldn't do that. You can get away with starting strength if you just equip some strength items that are good anyway.

At 18 strength you need just one of them. There's a +2 dex/+2 str ring. Actually there's more than one of those. There's also Andruil's Blessing and Key to the City. Like I said, you will want to use these items anyway.

I'd definitely call it a mistake to boost strength further.

As for willpower, I don't think that's going to help against being hit too much.

I prefer to have my Base score at the min, and not rely upon equipment. This allows for a greater variety of gear.

heh! And Willpower of 20 is low for me; prefer 30 for most Mages, Warriors, and Rogues. For my own style of play, it goes beyond min/max for dmg, and enjoy having fuel for the fight. Plus it boots Mental Resist.

Where's the error. I think even low amounts of dex will decrease the chance to be hit by most enemies. Or am I wrong?

Anyway when you get very high dex, you can only really be hit by enemies using certain special abilities that always hit. Dex luckily boosts physical resistance as well, which helps against some of those.

I'm a big fan of dex for rogues. I stopped at exactly 22 cunning just to have all levels of stealth. By the way, my rogue still does excellent damage. I ran some tests with high cunning/low dex and high dex/low cunning at level 20 in Golems, and I didn't think the extra damage was really worth it, considering you just CAN'T backstab all the time. The dex rogue just did a better job when I tried it.

I have had troubles locating the threads w/ good info, but here is one discussion of Defense vs Dodge. Personally, I found Dodge superior.

http://social.biowar...index/1163483/1

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

I prefer to have my Base score at the min, and not rely upon equipment. This allows for a greater variety of gear.

Generally a good principle. However, it just so happens that the best gear you can have for your rogue contains multiple items that boost strength also.

heh! And Willpower of 20 is low for me; prefer 30 for most Mages, Warriors, and Rogues. For my own style of play, it goes beyond min/max for dmg, and enjoy having fuel for the fight. Plus it boots Mental Resist.

Yep, but OP wasn't saying he had stamina problems, rather health problems. Will won't help there at all.

Besides, rogues don't need to spam activated abilities.

I have had troubles locating the threads w/ good info, but here is one discussion of Defense vs Dodge. Personally, I found Dodge superior.

Dodge is a funny thing. It's really good if you have low dex, but not particularly useful if your dex is high. I also didn't remember finding nearly enough dodge gear to make up for low defense otherwise.

Anyway dex does one thing dodge cannot do - it provides physical resistance. Not all attacks can be dodged.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote... *snip*

Dodge is a funny thing. It's really good if you have low dex, but not particularly useful if your dex is high. I also didn't remember finding nearly enough dodge gear to make up for low defense otherwise.

Anyway dex does one thing dodge cannot do - it provides physical resistance. Not all attacks can be dodged.

More Dodge gear has been included. The new Lil Song DLC armor has +15% I believe, and Caian's boots have +20%.

Physical resist is good, but does not help vs dmg. That would be armor. See here:

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Resistances

[termokanden]

I know what physical resistance does. I mentioned it because it shows how great dex is. Boosts attack, dagger damage, defense AND physical resistance.

As for dodge, I would actually be interested in knowing just how much dodge gear you can realistically get.

Battledress of the Provocateur was the only rogue-type dodge gear I remember finding, and that's only 15%. Cailan's Armor requires 42 strength so that doesn't really work for anything but strength rogues and certainly not the OP.

If you actually have a strength rogue, then massive armor with dodge rating is a very nice choice, I'll give you that.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 septembre 2010 - 01:23 .

[Elhanan]

I failed to mention that when you reduce DEX for STR, you do not lose Physical Resist; jusr Defense and Rng Attack bonus:

http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Attributes

As for Roguish Dodge gear, Voice of Velvet is +25%, Spellward is +10%, and for STR Rogues Evon's Mail is +10%, I believe.

[termokanden]

I failed to mention that when you reduce DEX for STR, you do not lose Physical Resist; jusr Defense and Rng Attack bonus:

Oh yeah but the OP is obviously a cunning rogue, not a strength rogue. I wouldn't make sense to put cunning at 36 and then start building up massive strength. So the strength rogue build, while interesting, doesn't belong here

As for the dodge gear, you'll need a lot more than that to replace dex, also because Voice of Velvet is an Awakening item (in Awakening, I don't know HOW rogues even get killed as it is ). So ruling out that and strength items leaves us at 25% dodge. Nice, and actually a good option for the OP. Doesn't come close to the defense from high dex though. So...

My current recommendation ™:

- Use Battledress of the Provocateur if possible.
- Buy Lifegiver + Spellward
- Get Master Stealth and drop aggro often.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 septembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[Elhanan]

True; I usually cap Cunning at 30. Only have one high Cunning Rogue in the game, and that is my only shot at a Bard.

So I will stck by my original post for 20 STR for the Battledress or Felon's Coat, tis only +2 pts for the freedom of changing out gear w/o worry.

[Jon Jern_]

I should also mention I'm cheating a bit with my armour. I didn't want to use the overpowered Underworld Armory, but I wanted some nice looking custom armour.

[Elhanan]

From what I can read, the tier 7 set looks good. I would compare the Felons Coat and Battledress to that chestpiece to see if any improvements are desired.

You may wish to look into raising your Dodge score, as that set already uses a little. That may also help, as it stacks. I skip Evasion for my Wardens, as it can delay offensive, but will use it for my NPCs.

[Darkren186]

with my rogue i didnt take any points in stealth i instead went with the coercian. i equipped plate armors and used two one handed swords when the expansion came out my female rogue looked more like a fighter then anything i had problems with harvester on hard only because i didnt build my gear slots properly so rogues do work as tanks but not in origins

[termokanden]

That doesn't make any sense. Coercion is a skill, Stealth is a talent. You can't take Coercion INSTEAD of Stealth.

[Kalcalan]

A few tips:



-You can make a Rogue and focus on Rogue talents instead of Combat (Dual Wielding or Archery) the Duelist line is a nice aternative (such a Rogue can be quite effective with a dagger and a shield -I didn't do the math but although it means less attacks it almost evens out given the slightly higher damage and the shield bonus).



-Stat wise maxing out Cunning is great for Origins, if you want to play Awakening you have to aim for 52 points in Dexterity (and Dexterity helps).



-Invest in Cunning or Strength not both. My last Rogue focused on Strength instead of Cunning and he was quite effective. Go for Cunning if you want a Bard, it's deadly but doesn't have the same lasting power. The great advantage of the high Strength Rogue compared with the high Cunning Rogue is that with a heavy armour that character is really hard to hit and can tank pretty well (using Stealth to get back into the backstabbing business).



If you find the usual Rogue to be too wimpy and fragile give the high Strength Rogue a try. I've found that it was more resilient than most characters I've played so far.

[termokanden]

Armor doesn't make your character harder to hit, it makes you take less damage per hit. Unless the armor has dodge or something like that.

[Kalcalan]

termokanden wrote...

Armor doesn't make your character harder to hit, it makes you take less damage per hit. Unless the armor has dodge or something like that.

Sure but since it reduces the damage you take it helps your character survive attacks that ignore defense (grab for instance).

[termokanden]

Just a small correction. No doubt massive armor helps against damage.

[miltos33]

Dark Passage +10%, Evasion +20%, Battledress of the Provocateur +15%, 3 Evasion Runes +15%, Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering +15%, Voice of Velvet +25% = 100% Dodge.



I wonder if there is any reason for a backstabber rogue in Awakening not to replace Dexterity with Cunning as the primary attribute considering that with a decent dex and the flanking bonus you probably won't have any attack problems.

[termokanden]

Yep, in Awakening I would go for cunning without a doubt. The dex you need for talents will be more than enough. I ran some tests myself to see if the attack rating was enough. It was, even without buffs. A few misses while not flanking though. But then that's without any buffs, and really you should always be flanking.

However, in Origins I like the high dex approach just for self-reliability and survivability.

Modifié par termokanden, 08 octobre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Elhanan]

miltos33 wrote...

Dark Passage +10%, Evasion +20%, Battledress of the Provocateur +15%, 3 Evasion Runes +15%, Cinch of Skillful Maneuvering +15%, Voice of Velvet +25% = 100% Dodge.

I wonder if there is any reason for a backstabber rogue in Awakening not to replace Dexterity with Cunning as the primary attribute considering that with a decent dex and the flanking bonus you probably won't have any attack problems.

Because Accuracy would allow you to become a deadly force at almost every distance; from long range to melee.

[termokanden]

A backstabber rogue does not use Accuracy. I doubt the intention was to cover multi-specialization builds. If so, yeah go for dex.

Modifié par termokanden, 08 octobre 2010 - 03:11 .