67 réponses à ce sujet

[bluecuban]

Reika wrote...

I prefer to save his sorry ass because he gets to live with the fact that a human saved his life when a non-human was going to take it.

Exactly.  Even being a politician he'll have some trouble spinning how a human saved his hypocritical butt.  I always save him hoping he'll either shift his views, or commit political suicide by trying to spin the news.

[horacethegrey]

mosor wrote...
He doesn't quite seem like the greateful sort to me. Kinda like Khalisah al-Jilani. You just can't really with with them. He's just as likely to take that humiliation and channel it into being a bigger anti-human ******.

Doesn't matter if he's grateful or not, the fact is Shepard saved him. An incident like that is sure to get on the news. And a number of the alien population of the Citadel are sure to look at humans in a better light if a human Spectre was willing to protect a ardent human racist from harm.

The moment Talid starts acting like an ungrateful ******, people are sure to call him out on it and his public image will be damaged. Remember, image is everything to a politician.

mosor wrote...As for using the shadow broker. From my experience, if you don't solve the problem yourself, then and there, it doesn't really get solved.

But that's the beauty of it. Liara can deal with the dirty stuff that Shepard can't deal with personally. There are situations where Shepard's presence may cause a fuss, such as exposing a dirty politician. But with Liara working behind the scenes, Shepard can shift the odds to his/her favor without getting his hands dirty.

Modifié par horacethegrey, 26 septembre 2010 - 03:58 .

[Markinator_123]

I kill him every single time.

[Asheer_Khan]

You should look at SB video surveliance about Khelam (not Talid... my mistake )... pretty interesting i must say .

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 27 septembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[Greatwoof]

He hasn't murdered any one that I knew of.  Besides, it's not my job to become judge, jury, and executioner even if I want to put a hole in him.  He also never pulled a weapon on me.  He gets due process like every one else.  If you killed every a..hole in the universe, would there be any one left?  Shoot, I'm an a..hole some times too.  Should I execute myself?  If I had a reason to use lethal force against him I would, but I don't.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Breaking up an anti/pro human race riot on the Citadel in ME3 would be fun. Zakera ward in flames, with turian or human rioters running around, depending on your choice in Thane's loyalty mission. Give Shepard gas grenades like on Feros and plenty of opportunities to use charm or intimidate.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Lizardviking wrote...
And he is completely useless on the suicide mission.

What? Thane is one of the best guys to take on the suicide mission on insanity. Collectors and husks count as "organic enemies" for purposes of shredder ammo and warp lets you nail barriers plus armored enemies like Harby and Scions. If you've got the incisor from either the DDE or the Aegis pack, he's disturbingly good at stripping collectors of their barriers even without warp too.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
And he is completely useless on the suicide mission.

What? Thane is one of the best guys to take on the suicide mission on insanity. Collectors and husks count as "organic enemies" for purposes of shredder ammo and warp lets you nail barriers plus armored enemies like Harby and Scions. If you've got the incisor from either the DDE or the Aegis pack, he's disturbingly good at stripping collectors of their barriers even without warp too.

And yet that doesn't prevent him for getting himself killed as a tech specialist/Second team leader or someone else as the biotic specalist.

Beside I prefer Miranda/Samara combo.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
And he is completely useless on the suicide mission.

What? Thane is one of the best guys to take on the suicide mission on insanity. Collectors and husks count as "organic enemies" for purposes of shredder ammo and warp lets you nail barriers plus armored enemies like Harby and Scions. If you've got the incisor from either the DDE or the Aegis pack, he's disturbingly good at stripping collectors of their barriers even without warp too.

Lizard was talking about a "role", not gameplay. Like how Tali can be used as a tech expert, for example.

[CmdrKankrelat]

I save him as well, in hopes that he'll realize that not all humans are bad and shift his views accordingly. Failing that, I at least hope that the alien residents of Zakera Ward take note that a human just saved him, despite all his fiery rhetoric, and soften their own views.

Plus, while I know that Talid is a thug, it doesn't help that humans are running their own thuggery out of the as-of-yet unseen Shin Akiba enclave.  Personally, I'd like a chance in ME3 to bust up that foolishness sheriff-style.

Modifié par CmdrKankrelat, 26 septembre 2010 - 04:27 .

[Jonesey2k]

As stated above I save him in an attempts to at least try and quell the anti-human thing going on. J

[ADLegend21]

Yeah, he's going against the decision of a spectre, "A bullet to to the head solves everything". He's a racist and would een want the council thrown out for letting a human become a part of it,

[Dean_the_Young]

horacethegrey wrote...

mosor wrote...
He doesn't quite seem like the greateful sort to me. Kinda like Khalisah al-Jilani. You just can't really with with them. He's just as likely to take that humiliation and channel it into being a bigger anti-human ******.

Doesn't matter if he's grateful or not, the fact is Shepard saved him. An incident like that is sure to get on the news. And a number of the alien population of the Citadel are sure to look at humans in a better light if a human Spectre was willing to protect a ardent human racist from harm.

The moment Talid starts acting like an ungrateful ******, people are sure to call him out on it and his public image will be damaged. Remember, image is everything to a politician.

Sadly, if there's one thing that that democracy and race politics have shown in history, it's that even public individual acts by the groups being rallied against don't overturn a politician. If it were that simple, then race politics wouldn't work, rather than being a timeless populist model.

Commander Shepard saved Talid. So what? It doesn't disprove anything about humans: the assassination, after all, was started by a human. Talid simply points to Shepard as an exception of humanity (which he/she is), and then goes on blasting humans in general while every once in a while covering his ass with some concession that there may be a few good humans, but they're so outnumbered by the majority, etc. etc. etc. And considering that Shepard doesn't live on the Citadel, while the sort of humans who tried to have Talid assassinated do, exposure over time doesn't favor the brief visitor.

Saving Talid simply means that he lives to do whatever he wants, including keeping on rallying against humans, something he's more than happy to do regardless of the Council situation. Shepard saving Talid solely as a favor to another alien doesn't prevent anything.

People can point to saving Talid as simply an attempt to quell anti-human sentiment. That might work if Talid was the only motivator of it. But he isn't. You can rightfully fear blowback of letting him be killed (or killing him yourself), but I don't think anyone here has appreciated how entrenched and insitutionalized he can make his position if he does win office. Once a demagogue takes office, his influence, appeal, and ability to harm become much, much greater.

If Joram wins on his anti-human ticket, that's going to be a major facet of politics for the foreseeable future. Killing him, or letting him die, may or may not flame future sentiment: history is too mixed to tell for certain without local context. Letting him take office, however, enables and preserves it now.

mosor wrote...As for using the shadow broker. From my experience, if you don't solve the problem yourself, then and there, it doesn't really get solved.

But that's the beauty of it. Liara can deal with the dirty stuff that Shepard can't deal with personally. There are situations where Shepard's presence may cause a fuss, such as exposing a dirty politician. But with Liara working behind the scenes, Shepard can shift the odds to his/her favor without getting his hands dirty.

I'm sorry, you want Liara to become a comitted extortionist, blackmailer, and crime lord?

I mean, sure, I think it's for the best to, but I'm a renegade player mostly, and I'm not a great fan.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 26 septembre 2010 - 05:41 .

[Skyblade012]

Eh, I don't consider him a threat. Since I saved the Council, the codex says that, despite some animosity towards humanity's fast rise to power, most of the galaxy trusts us for saving the Council. One little twit is unlikely to jeopardize that, especially since he is one of the most idiotic politicians alive.



Yes, politicians steal money from people. No, they do not do it in person, especially not right before an election.



And they are usually smart enough to not have big "Blood Pack" logos all over their bodyguards while claiming to end organized crime.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Only once

[InHarmsWay]

tonnactus wrote...

Its dumb to shoot him,not renegade. It plays in the hands of all other groups who hate humans.

My reasoning too for my paragons and renegons. All it'll do is make him a martyr.

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 26 septembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[wizardryforever]

For me it all depends on whether I saved the council or not in ME1.  If I did, I let him go.  If I didn't, I kill him.  Why?  Because if the council is alive, his reasoning comes across as just bigoted; he doesn't have much to stand on logically, and killing him would give his flawed logic an air of validity.  People would think we killed him because he was right and we didn't want him to spread his message.  Anti-human sentiment would become worse (though probably not as bad as if you had killed the council). 

But if I killed the council, then I kill Talid simply because the anti-human sentiment can and will get worse if he gets into office.  He's more likely to actually win office in this scenario, because his arguments actually make sense, humans did seize power and push everyone else out.  People realize this, and he's more popular as a result.  Of course, killing him doesn't solve the problem exactly, but it's better than letting him live.

Naturally, I save the council 9 times out of 10, simply because that makes the most sense to me, so I almost always let Talid go as a result.

[Aztag09]

InHarmsWay wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its dumb to shoot him,not renegade. It plays in the hands of all other groups who hate humans.

My reasoning too for my paragons and renegons. All it'll do is make him a martyr.

Agreed. Killing him would only fuel his cause of anti-human relations. But maybe he'll change his position after one saved his life from another alien.

[Dean_the_Young]

Aztag09 wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Its dumb to shoot him,not renegade. It plays in the hands of all other groups who hate humans.

My reasoning too for my paragons and renegons. All it'll do is make him a martyr.

Agreed. Killing him would only fuel his cause of anti-human relations. But maybe he'll change his position after one saved his life from another alien.

Of course, this raises the question of what, then, can be an acceptable way to address him. No matter what you do against him, regardless of reason, can be blamed as human discrimination. He'll always resort to that: it doesn't matter that he's corrupt, or a racist, or anything else. No matter what you do, he'll claim it's human conspiracy against him.

At some point, you either have to bite the bullet or you let him do anything for fear of justifying him.

[Vamp-Willow]

horacethegrey wrote...

mosor wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

And give alien activists yet more ammo to use? To prove him right? No, I didn't like the guy, but the repercussions for killing him outweighed my own distaste.

Leaving him alive is worse than killing him because you not only kill a leader of anti-human sentiment, you kill a gangster who harasses humans. If he was just an anti-human activist, I'd probably wouldn't shoot him, but he's a thug too. Then again, I'm a renegade, aliens have plenty of ammo against humans already. One more body isn't going to change things. Taking out an prominant anti-human agitator and extortionist, may make others think twice before doing the same.

But leaving Talid alive is kind of humiliating him in a way. Here he is, preaching all about the evils of humanity, and he gets his ass saved by the first human Spectre. It'll be pretty hard for him to spin it in his favor if Shepard continues to be a paragon of virtue in the publics eye. 

Besides, if Talid continues to use his political muscle as a front for his criminal activities, you could always expose him. Remember, a certain friend of Shepard's is now the Shadow Broker.

Agreed and love the SB angle!

[AdamNW]

Reika wrote...

I prefer to save his sorry ass because he gets to live with the fact that a human saved his life when a non-human was going to take it.

This

[cihimi]

just love to hear kolyat wet his pants with..."oh...my...gods."

[PsyrenY]

Reika wrote...

I prefer to save his sorry ass because he gets to live with the fact that a human saved his life when a non-human was going to take it.

Pretty much that.

[Xilizhra]

Why would I kill him? My objective is to stop Kolyat from killing him. Sure, if I had time, I'd lecture him on not extorting businesses, but anything else is just plain murder.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

i needed as many paragon points as possible, and thane's loyalty... so no i didn't... but hey... if the game was otherwise, "koliak was too fast for me...", sheperd