your logic is diplomatically sound... but look at the turian councilor still dismissing sheperd's reaper theory, after sheperd himself saved him from a giant reaper that everyone else witnessed and fought... his views weren't altered after sheperd's actions.Aztag09 wrote...
InHarmsWay wrote...
tonnactus wrote...
Its dumb to shoot him,not renegade. It plays in the hands of all other groups who hate humans.
My reasoning too for my paragons and renegons. All it'll do is make him a martyr.
Agreed. Killing him would only fuel his cause of anti-human relations. But maybe he'll change his position after one saved his life from another alien.
Do you shoot Joram Talid?
Débuté par
Arijharn
, sept. 26 2010 01:09
#51
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:37
FuturePasTimeCE
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Retour en haut
#52
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:31
Markinator_123
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Xilizhra wrote...
Why would I kill him? My objective is to stop Kolyat from killing him. Sure, if I had time, I'd lecture him on not extorting businesses, but anything else is just plain murder.
Killing him is so much fun though. It would be funny if his views didn't change if you save him.
#53
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:32
fongiel24
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I wouldn't have a problem with Talid having an "unfortunate accident" but I don't like killing him because of the combination of who he is, who Shepard is, and the fact they're both surrounded by cops and possibly cameras. Does anybody remember that AP photograph in 1968 depicting the Saigon Chief of Police shooting that Viet Cong prisoner? The shooting was actually quite justified (the Viet Cong prisoner had just murdered the families of several of the Chief's officers) yet everyone was outraged because to the cameras it was just some nameless unarmed prisoner getting a .38 caliber headache.
If Talid becomes a problem, Shepard knows enough assassins (or probably has the skills himself) so that the turian can be eliminated later without anyone drawing the link between humanity's first Spectre and the death of an anti-human politician.
If Talid becomes a problem, Shepard knows enough assassins (or probably has the skills himself) so that the turian can be eliminated later without anyone drawing the link between humanity's first Spectre and the death of an anti-human politician.
#54
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 11:46
Alixen
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I shot him last time; if only because without metagaming you can't know that you can talk Koliyat down, and for all you know if you hestitate for an instant then the boy has become a murderer. You, on the otherhand, arn't likely to be arrested if you shot him (it's not even a possibility if you are a SPECTRE), and it takes a corrupt politician out of the arena. Every little helps.
It's easy to look at the situation as a whole with out of game knowledge; but this is a roleplaying game. That's not how it's supposed to be done.
I'm not saying it's right to shoot him, I already said I have only done it once. Just pointing out that all this reasoning people are doing is greatly based on hindsight, with time to think (that wouldn't be there if not for the choice-wheel), and a lot of ifs and buts.
It's easy to look at the situation as a whole with out of game knowledge; but this is a roleplaying game. That's not how it's supposed to be done.
I'm not saying it's right to shoot him, I already said I have only done it once. Just pointing out that all this reasoning people are doing is greatly based on hindsight, with time to think (that wouldn't be there if not for the choice-wheel), and a lot of ifs and buts.
#55
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 01:17
elearon1
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Yeah, but you've had the entire time you were tracking the guy to reason through the issue. Sure I was watching him and looking for Koliyat, but I was also pondering the implications of what would happen if he died, and whether it would be so bad to let the kid kill him.
When the time comes those things are occurring to me, but I'm also worried that the kid is in a situation he can't escape from - if he shoots the man he will be caught and sent to prison and that is not something I want to see happen. (Thane is part of my crew, and while I may be a serious renegade, I watch out for my crew and that means their family as well, in situations like that)
So my reasons to not shoot him were entirely rp driven. With another character I might choose differently.
As for the "if I wait the kid might shoot him" argument, it never even occurs to me - if the kid chooses to kill the man despite my words, then he made a choice and has to live with it ... killing the man myself isn't going to solve the problem. And considering the first time I played through I had no certainty I could say the right thing to talk him down, it isn't metagaming to try.
When the time comes those things are occurring to me, but I'm also worried that the kid is in a situation he can't escape from - if he shoots the man he will be caught and sent to prison and that is not something I want to see happen. (Thane is part of my crew, and while I may be a serious renegade, I watch out for my crew and that means their family as well, in situations like that)
So my reasons to not shoot him were entirely rp driven. With another character I might choose differently.
As for the "if I wait the kid might shoot him" argument, it never even occurs to me - if the kid chooses to kill the man despite my words, then he made a choice and has to live with it ... killing the man myself isn't going to solve the problem. And considering the first time I played through I had no certainty I could say the right thing to talk him down, it isn't metagaming to try.
Modifié par elearon1, 27 septembre 2010 - 01:20 .
#56
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 01:49
Agamo45
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No that's just stupid and makes no sense, even for a renegade. Shepard is a Spectre, a protector and defender of the galaxy, not a Goddamn criminal.
#58
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 01:54
Arijharn
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Agamo45 wrote...
No that's just stupid and makes no sense, even for a renegade. Shepard is a Spectre, a protector and defender of the galaxy, not a Goddamn criminal.
Laws do not exist to protect criminals, it exists to protect society.
Besides, it may never come out who killed Joram, just that he died during a failed 'hostage situation.' The fact also remains that Joram himself potentially risked the destabilization of galactic society base off his anti-human tirade and lets face it, racists don't need a reason to be racist, although they may look for situations where racism can become the accepted norm.
#59
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 01:57
lazuli
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Arijharn wrote...
Agamo45 wrote...
No that's just stupid and makes no sense, even for a renegade. Shepard is a Spectre, a protector and defender of the galaxy, not a Goddamn criminal.
Laws do not exist to protect criminals, it exists to protect society.
And yet there are plenty of laws created to protect the rights of criminals and criminal suspects.
#60
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:02
Markinator_123
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My Shepard isn't a fan of due process. Once again, killing Talid is too much fun!
#61
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:09
Arijharn
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lazuli wrote...
Arijharn wrote...
Agamo45 wrote...
No that's just stupid and makes no sense, even for a renegade. Shepard is a Spectre, a protector and defender of the galaxy, not a Goddamn criminal.
Laws do not exist to protect criminals, it exists to protect society.
And yet there are plenty of laws created to protect the rights of criminals and criminal suspects.
I wasn't clear, my point being is that criminals can't use the law to defend themselves when they do criminal things.
#62
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:13
AntiChri5
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Neither being a rascist nor shaking down shops are crimes that carry tue death penalty.
I spare him.
Besides, does anybody else think its just plain funny to save him? Shepard so wished he could upload that whole mission to space YouTube.
I spare him.
Besides, does anybody else think its just plain funny to save him? Shepard so wished he could upload that whole mission to space YouTube.
#63
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:16
Nightwriter
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AntiChri5 wrote...
Besides, does anybody else think its just plain funny to save him? Shepard so wished he could upload that whole mission to space YouTube.
Mos def.
#64
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:19
Giggles_Manically
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I always take shoot the lamp because that is an obviously easy way to defuse the situation.
If there was a choice... sorry Thane but I would kill Kolyat.
Seriously though it wont help Shep or Humanity if it gets out that he gunned down an defenseless person, especially a loud mouthed politician whose murder would look like a hit.
If there was a choice... sorry Thane but I would kill Kolyat.
Seriously though it wont help Shep or Humanity if it gets out that he gunned down an defenseless person, especially a loud mouthed politician whose murder would look like a hit.
#65
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 02:56
Arijharn
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AntiChri5 wrote...
Neither being a rascist nor shaking down shops are crimes that carry tue death penalty.
I spare him.
Besides, does anybody else think its just plain funny to save him? Shepard so wished he could upload that whole mission to space YouTube.
Shephard's a Spectre. He doesn't follow any rules. He goes all the way without a second thought!
#66
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 03:10
inversevideo
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Alixen wrote...
I shot him last time; if only because without metagaming you can't know that you can talk Koliyat down, and for all you know if you hestitate for an instant then the boy has become a murderer. You, on the otherhand, arn't likely to be arrested if you shot him (it's not even a possibility if you are a SPECTRE), and it takes a corrupt politician out of the arena. Every little helps.
It's easy to look at the situation as a whole with out of game knowledge; but this is a roleplaying game. That's not how it's supposed to be done.
I'm not saying it's right to shoot him, I already said I have only done it once. Just pointing out that all this reasoning people are doing is greatly based on hindsight, with time to think (that wouldn't be there if not for the choice-wheel), and a lot of ifs and buts.
Actually, until I came across this thread, I did not know it was possible to shoot Talid.
I always figured, based on your conversation with Bailey, prior to going after Koliat (sp) that I had to stop the assassination, in order to prevent ant-human sentiment from escalating. It seemed that much more than Thane's loyalty was at stake.
#67
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 04:44
fongiel24
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Alixen wrote...
I shot him last time; if only because without metagaming you can't know that you can talk Koliyat down, and for all you know if you hestitate for an instant then the boy has become a murderer. You, on the otherhand, arn't likely to be arrested if you shot him (it's not even a possibility if you are a SPECTRE), and it takes a corrupt politician out of the arena. Every little helps.
I never thought Kolyat would even consider pulling the trigger. He's not a fanatic and I doubt he's a complete idiot. He's surrounded by lots and lots of cops with guns. The only thing standing between him and having his skull aired out is his live hostage, Talid. As soon as he was cornered in Talid's apartment, the situation has been stabilized and it's just a matter of keeping Kolyat calm and waiting for either a police sniper or a real negotiator to get to the scene. The only way Kolyat shoots Talid is if his trigger finger slips accidentally.
As for Shepard shooting Talid, Spectre status can be stripped just as easily as it's granted. If Talid has friends in the media or in government, the outcry for Shepard to be prosecuted could be enough that the Council could decide to strip Shepard of Spectre status. Automatically assuming the Council will have Shepard's back in this kind of situation isn't a smart move.
Modifié par fongiel24, 27 septembre 2010 - 04:45 .
#68
Posté 27 septembre 2010 - 05:59
RubiconI7
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These people can be manipulated to suit the needs of human sympathizers. In simple terms: he bashes humans, humans play on him to gain sympathy from aliens. With organizations like Cerberus and now the Shadow Broker network, this can be easily arranged.
The real person that actually needs to be shut up (not killed, but force him to lay low) is Elias Kelham. He is just going to encourage people to regard humans as "aggressive" and bullies. Nationalism, or in this case, humanism?..should be achieved through more subtle actions. Cerberus should change their policy from open hostility to aliens to pro-human OVER pro-everyone.
The argument of corrupt Politicians to me is a bit naive. How exactly do you define corrupt? In the game or in our world? I make no defense as to how politicians are pretty despised among people but one has to admit they do their part.
So... I don't kill him.
The real person that actually needs to be shut up (not killed, but force him to lay low) is Elias Kelham. He is just going to encourage people to regard humans as "aggressive" and bullies. Nationalism, or in this case, humanism?..should be achieved through more subtle actions. Cerberus should change their policy from open hostility to aliens to pro-human OVER pro-everyone.
The argument of corrupt Politicians to me is a bit naive. How exactly do you define corrupt? In the game or in our world? I make no defense as to how politicians are pretty despised among people but one has to admit they do their part.
So... I don't kill him.
