[quote]Lumikki wrote...
Maybe we should argue as look more close to game details, than this abstract arguments, because it's possible that we aren't so far in our opinions as we think.
Possible details as what is fine in ME2 and what need to be change to ME3 and how?
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Sure, let's see where this goes.
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1. TPS combat system
In my opinion ME2 did well in this, it need little bit expanding and fixing. Maybe add over heat system in heavy fire rate weapons, like machine guns, assult riffle and some heavy weapons. Also the looting clips should be more realistic, like from bodies. Also I would like smaller target cross. Also DLC "items" should not unbalance main game.[/quote]
Funnily enough this is actually something that needs to have the shooter stuff strengthened as much as the RPG stuff, if not more. The basic premise and idea is fine, but it's not executed particularly well overall compared to something like Gears of War, simply because ME2 fails to really change things up that much. Gears of War managed to actually provide some interesting setpieces, bosses and incorporate puzzles within the shooter combat without deviating too much from it. That's why I think Gears works well, because it manages to keep things different and interesting throughout, while ME2 tends to be the same thing over and over with little change (i.e. find waist-high cover, fight, run until you find next cover area or cut-scene, rinse and repeat). It also didn't help that there were usually few ways to approach a situation, though admittedly the DLCs of Overlord and LotSB managed to feel a little more open and varied and did manage to make combat a little more interesting for the most part, which was nice. I'd like to think it shows that BioWare has learned from the samey combat in the vanilla game and improved on it. I'd also like to see crouch come back, and I actually think regenerating health is a mistake and would prefer the return of medi-gel in full form. They wanted to make combat more intense and dangerous with more enemies and thermal clips, but its completely erased when you can just duck behind something for two seconds and be perfectly fine. I doubt they'll do it though, especially with the way it's been worked into the lore.
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2. Inventory vs research
ME2 did well here too, base idea in here is fine, like finding new technology and turn it to "items". This really cuted off the dublicated and junk items from game what ME1 was full off. Not much to improve here than just add more variety as more different kind of "items".[/quote]
Here I half agree. Good base idea, but awful execution. When I first heard of the research system, I thought it was going to be much better than it turned out to be. I was expecting you'd use it to research new mods and items and that it would take time and you'd have to pick and choose a bit more than you did. As it stands its horrible and game-breaking, IMO. It's just too damn easy to upgrade everything to max with no penalty to the point of God-modding everything. It takes away modding and customisation, and takes away having omni-tools and biotic amps as proper objects any more. It should be more limited and basically be used to level-up your gear to a degree (i.e. instead of having to find I to X of an item ala ME1, you use the research/upgrade system to merely improve the items) and to create new mods for your items, but not automatically improve all of them without a trade-off or player choice. It's too powerful as it is, and this is something that the player should be more limited with. It doesn't help that players don't even need to pay attention and can just click on things without a thought and make everything they have super-uber-awesome. A good RPG system shouldn't reward those who don't pay attention. Sadly, I get the strong feeling BioWare will ignore this issue and just keep it in, which for me would equal automatic fail as far as I'm concerned. This is one of the factors that needs to be curbed the most in all of ME2.
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3. Exploration (vehicle & planets)
In my opinion ME1 did this better. The planet terrain was not so good in many mission for Mako, but Mako it self was fine. Also in ME1 main mission Mako worked fine. Hammerhead was also fine in ME2, but feeled little like some arcade game. ME2 planet mining system was total crap. Exploration need to be in planet surface and players need reason to search someting.[/quote]
The Hammerhead either needs a major overhaul or simply needs to go. Simple as that. It's too gamey, unrealistic and weak and just completely pulls me out of the game with its mere presence. Either overhaul, or give us a new vehicle or upgraded Mako. Sadly BioWare seem committed to The Hammerhead, despite it being far more flawed than The Mako ever was. At the very least we need to be able to save in it and exit/enter it at our leisure, as well as getting a decent HUD.
As for exploration itself, I'd really like to see a good mix of both existing games. Give us a few ME1 style UNC worlds to bring back that epic, desolate loneliness of neverending beauty that feels like truly exploring the unknown and makes the universe feel vast and mostly empty. Give us a few smaller N7 style missions, but this time present them better than just emails and silent Shepard running around with his/her equally silent crew to collect datapads... give us some banter, interesting NPCs and situations and proper set-ups and conclusions (none of the ones in ME2 felt even remotely relevant or important). And finally, give us some larger, more alive and beautifully designed places like the main hub area in the Overlord DLC, where we can drive our vehicle in a beautifully crafted large area, without it seeming overly designed.
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4. Weapon customation and moding
ME2 weapons, because they are "better", feeled better and are different enough. Then add more of them with weapon mods possibility from ME1. Meaning you should be able little customize weapons too as adjust it to some direction or add/expand some feature.[/quote]
They need to bring back mods... simple as that. Bring back the radar and Combat Sensors. Bring back ammo mods as mods and ditch them as powers (that was a really
stupid idea!) and bring us some even deeper and more specific mods, such as scopes for sniper rifles, silencers for heavy pistols, the ability to give a three-round burst ability to a gun that normally doesn't have it, etc. Have mods either buyable or researchable via the research system. We need to be able to modify our guns, not merely upgrade them.
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5. Armor customation and moding
ME2 Shepard was fine, maybe moding was little too light weighted and too few base armor choises in main game. How ever, this customation should be in all characters, not just for Shepard. Also armors should be only when combat areas. In places where is no combat, characters should use casual cloths or military uniforms. Customized by style and colors. Modding should be strong enough for player to feel it inside the game.[/quote]
Armour needs to
act like armour again in some way. Some should protect better against damage, while others do against tech or biotics, etc. Helmet toggle needs to come back. ME2 armour pieces was a good idea, and this can basically replace armour modding. Companions need not necessarily have full armour customisation, but they
do need armour for battle (as it stands the whole thing makes no sense and breaks more lore and basic realism). Simple solution is to give each companion a set of armour for battle and civvie clothes for The Normandy and non-combat areas (ME1 even kind of did this, where Ashley, Kaiden and Liara would be in civvies aboard The Normandy but in armour when out in the field, and other alien companions had their default ship get-up and their battle get-up). Again, if BioWare thinks fully equipping squaddies clothing is silly, just give them two sets.
And for the love of God... GIVE THEM PROPER HELMETS AND PROPER PROTECTION IN SPACE!!!
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6. Character progression linear or parallel
Linear progression doesn't really fit well in Mass Effect series, because Shepards background story. So, I suggest more parallel way, meaning Shapard doesn't come so much stronger with skills, powers, items and so on, but playing more increase variety of choises for player. Meaning you learn new ways to do stuff. ME2 progression was too limited (simple) and ME1 progresson was too linear.[/quote]
Player progression is something I can ignore, because it's purely a gameplay factor and doesn't interfere or get directly referenced by the narrative, just like leveling up overall.
XP needs to be doled out gradually though... none of this lump sum, "Mission Complete" crap. That BS needs to take a long walk off a short pier... horrible idea.
I always thought that it was a mistake when they halved the level cap (actually a
good idea) to also more than half the skills (very
bad idea). They should have retained about the same amount of skills to choose from, because this gives the player more options, more builds and means they have to choose how they level-up more carefully. There needs to be more non-combat skills, such as the return of things like First Aid, Decryption and Hacking, etc. Also bring back different armour classes that a Shepard has to train in to gain additional defense, but with benefits for sticking to lighter armours as well (e.g. wearing a heavy armour gives more protection, but reduces speed, with light armour making a player faster but not able to take as many hits, while medium armour is the middle-ground). I hope with ME3 we end up with the Level 60 cap raise and more than merely double the amount of new skills. Skills could also benefit from splitting off before the final point and/or be more varied in how different they are (rather than just being essentially the same, but more damage vs. more enemies hit, or more damage vs. more defense, etc.)
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7. Impression details
In this my opinion ME1 did better. Sometimes small details like elevator or shuttle entrace or interview with npcs reporter, can increase impression of game world to be alive. How ever, sometimes it did not much matter what you did choose, because end result was allways same. Also sometimes choosing something totally surprice what Shepard sayed, it wasn't what player thinked the choise was.[/quote]
Yeah, this just needs more polish. Especially with companions. Elevators and decontamination are better than loading screens. Areas in ME2 need to feel bigger, more open and more epic. More like real places, less liked narrow paths designed for a game. Bringing back vehicle sections on main missions could help this (Illium never really felt that large until the car chase in LotSB, for example).
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8. Character skills and powers
Both games sucked in this. ME1 was illusion, just choose few what you needed and you could ignore most other skills. Also ME1 skills and talent system totally destroyed TPS combat side balance. In ME2 they cut most skills off and all not combat related, what created very simple power system. This isn't good, player need more powers and skill, but also so that they have some gameplay meaning. Also turning ammo mods to powers, wasn't so good thing. It's handy, but also limits ammo mods from other classes and make non bionic classes feel like bionic, when it's power. (Impression).[/quote]
See what I wrote under "Character progression" for this, as well as my comments in other sections on mods and upgrades. I think those also cover this. I will add that I believe that they need to integrate the combat better with the RPG side of things, as as it stands they're completely removed from each other beyond hurling powers. Biotics need to be un-nerfed... not fully, but more than they are. Shockwave and Pull should do more than make protected enemies do a little jig for two seconds, even if they don't fully work. ME1 biotics were admittedly overly powerful and broken, but ME2 biotics overcompensated for it.
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9. Dialog system
I don't have much to say on this, both games worked fine here. I did like more ME2 side, because paragon system, but some others seem to like more persuade system. It's more a taste. Why I liked ME2 system better? Because it can cause something negative to happen to player because dialog choises from past. ME1 system provided 100% positive result every time.[/quote]
I don't like how alignment affects conversation choices in ME2: it does so too much, meaning it's hard to create a truly neutral character and kind of forces a player to be either Paragon or Renegade and thus discourages mixing or proper roleplaying. Persuasion should be a proper skill, and not just one linked to an existing combat one either (meaning players need to choose persuasive strength over physical strength and can't as easily have both). There definitely needs to be some more Renegade options that have the better outcome over the Paragon ones, because as it stands it seems the Paragon player gets most of the benefits by a long-shot. A Renegade is supposed to be the one who doesn't mess around and gets the job done, so more should be done to reflect this. Paragons not killing certain people should come back to bite them in the ass again more often than it does (as it stands there's only one real example of this thus far: the blue suns asari merc enroute to finding Samara who feigns being green and ignorant but is a cold-blooded killer who loves it).
I also want to see Paragon and Renegade dialogues sometimes fail, simply because some characters wouldn't react the same to the same situations as others, depending on their personalities. Nothing major and not all the time, but just things that would stop the player maybe getting a small reward or something that would force them to find another means of getting the info they want. For example, a krogan bounty hunter would respond well to a indimidate threat because he'd think you're tough and respect that, but wouldn't open-up to you being overly nice because he'd think you're a pathetic wuss, meaning only Renegades could get what they want out of him and Paragons would need to find another means or look somewhere else or simply miss out. On the other hand, a rescued slave held hostage by batarians would react well to a sympathetic ear and some kindness and give a Paragon some info, while a threat from a Renegade would make him close-off, cower and consider you a cruel bully, meaning a Renegade would have to go elsewhere to get the info. Stuff like that... it adds realism and extra dimensions and playability to the game, rather than just having every single person give in to Shepard using either method.
It'd be nice to also have class-specific dialogue too, but that's more of a bonus than something I feel really needs to be added. For example, a biotic may have extra dialogue options during conversations about biotic implants, or a tech-based Shepard may have extra dialogue when talking about ship repair or omni-tools, while soldiers would know more of Earth military history and about things like Shanxi and The First Contact War/Relay 314 Incident, etc.
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10. Companion interactions
In my opinion ME1 and ME2 wasn't so good at this. I would actually let this comes from DAO, where companions did they back ground talking more activily. How ever, I don't want too much banter, just enough to keep illusion of companions to be alive. Game focus should never become simulatiting relationships, but as adventure of story. Too much focus in compantion can turn the focus of the game. Like sex, romantic and so on. They should be very small side events, not to become main focus. After player has played, player should remember the main story highlights, not how love they where with some companions.[/quote]
Simply put, ME2 had (generally) better on-ship dialogue with companions, but ME1 was better in the actual field and on sidequests, etc. We need to improve things on both sides for ME3 I feel.
DAO is the right place to look, because it did this really well. I'd like to see banter-trigger points or something much like that in ME3, and hopefully elevators would return. I'd also like to see more observation points, more akin to the ME1 ones where everybody can comment rather than ME2's ones that are limited to character-specific ones. More inter-banter between party members during crucial (and even non-crucial) moments, ala DAO as well (even ME1 did this better and more often, but DAO is the real example of how to do it, with dialogue even differing more depending on the groups you have to make it more personal). I'd like to see character-specific missions at certain locales, so you'd have sidequests that only trigger if you've got the right squaddie there (ala KotOR). I'd also like to see some more conflicts between characters like the Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion ones now and then, as well as some Shepard-free interactions between squaddies that you witness independently of Shepard's presence, ala KotOR 2 when you returned to the Ebon Hawke now and then (for those against it, just make them skippable with a single-press of the right button. Easy since there's no Shepard dialogue to worry about). Squaddies should be more vocal on sidequests, like they were on ME1 (sometimes they'd even directly involved themselves, e.g. Kaidan and Chairman Burns). They also need to get out of their own little bubbles and acknowledge more of the world around them and others beyond their own issues. Things like Garrus and Ashley/Kaidan acknowledging each other on Horizon, Tali talking more about Legion when you first brought him on, Liara acknowledging Tali and Garrus on Illium, etc. would have just added far more realism and life to things. I also wouldn't mind doing some non-mission, mundane/ordinary things with them. Taking Garrus to visit Dr. Michel on The Citadel to just have a catch-up, taking your love-interest out for a romantic meal, playing a game of future-chess with Thane, etc. would have been really nice. Having a drink with Liara at the end of LotSB touched on this concept, and I'd like to see more. It also gives Shepard a chance to open up and be more human and even flawed, letting that guard down for a moment.
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11. Story and theme
ME1 was better here. ME2 story was too much about companions and too little weight in main story. As for other story aspect as heretic of pass events, I don't really care. Is story new or continue old ones, it has no real meaning for me. How ever, as ME3 will be last of serie, I would suggest end the open questions.[/quote]
Agree here. The Collectors should have been the primary focus since they were the Reaper-link, but they felt secondary. On top of that the whole thing felt too far removed from ME1 overall, and factors that seemed important and had weight in the original (e.g. The Alliance, Saving the Council, Being a Spectre, etc.) were made to seem shallow and insignificant in ME2, which was disappointing. Hopefully, in a way, ME3 will help bring these almost completely separate entities in the first games together more. ME2 kind of felt like it diverted off the main track too much, and hopefully ME3 will bring it back on main course. I also hope it's more story driven and more of a mystery ala ME1 than ME2's more character-driven style that has few surprises and you pretty much know where you're going (you're preparing for the ending after all, while with ME1 priorities and what you were doing shifted and changed as the mystery unfolded before you). I suspect it'll actually be somewhat of a mix between both, and with a little DAO as well. It seems ME3 is set up to be the "get everybody on-side for the Reaper invasion, which probably means going to all the species and then doing things for them to gain their trust and collecting a few new allies along the way. But this is just speculation. To be honest, the writing quality is the least of my issues with ME3, because I'm fairly confident they'll at least pull it off. What I actually really hope is that all our choices really
do have proper consequences and that we really do get some really varied outcomes, rather than just some slight variations, a few cameos and a whole lotta emails.
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So where we have biggest disagreements?
Did I forgot something important?
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Not sure if you forgot anything. If you can think of something that wasn't covered above in the future, I'll be more than happy to continue to add my two cents.
Modifié par Terror_K, 07 octobre 2010 - 11:09 .
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