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Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion. Volume 2


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#426
Turin_4

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So what's the difference?


Echo!  echo...echo...

----------

Is it wrong that I'm more excited about Deus Ex: Human Revolution than I am about ME 3?


It's not wrong, it's just your opinion.

-First off the thermal clips were nothing but joke. It’s nothing
more than a “we’re going all shooter this time so we need to add an ammo
system.“ thing. They did nothing to show us that thermal clips were
anything but a lame ammo system added to a game that didn’t need an ammo
system.


*shrug*  Personally, I don't demand from a video game every last bit of everything be explained down to the tiniest detail.  I'm comfortable - eager, in fact - to leave some things unexplained and to the imagination.  This isn't a sign of laziness of inability to recognize good writing, but rather an awareness of the fact that when you do start cramming in explanations of every last bit of bit of trivia, what you get is a densely packed tome that stops becoming interesting.

Now, personally, I thought they way they handled the ammo problem in ME1 worked pretty well.  The heat system was pretty interested, the unlimited ammunition but limited firing was interesting, and I think they could have simply used it again.  But I also thought they handled the 'thermal clip' system pretty well in ME2, and thus because I didn't care to have every last piece of trivia explained in ironclad detail, I was satisfied.

-Secondly the weapon powers were nothing but flawed. Am I to
believe that putting a mod chip or changing the setting on my gun
requires special training on par with using a biotic or tech power? I
guess Engineers, Adepts and Sentinels are to stupid to use ammo at all
since they are the only ones who cant use them at all with out special
“bonus” training. Using a mod or changing a setting on your gun to shoot
different ammo types should not have been made a class specific
“power”.


It was a decision made for gameplay balance.  You want Engineers to be able to use disruptor ammo to strip down someone's shields, then incinerate to strip down their armor, and then inferno ammo to take down their health just as an example?  C'mon.  Does it make perfect sense?  No.  But again, sometimes little cuts need to be made for gameplay's sake.  Most of us put on our big boy gamer pants instead of complaining about it.

And, for the 50th time, I don't think anyone wants to bring back the
exaxt same inventory system that was in ME1.  A smaller inventory for
ME3 is what I want.


Likewise.  Ideally, so far, what I would like is a system with the bad elements from ME1 scrapped, and the good elements from ME2 included-that is, you can't just cart along **** from the battlefield or bag someone's ammo or weapons right there, because they'll be damaged, not sized properly, secured and shielded, etc.

They need to bring back mods... simple as that. Bring back the radar
and Combat Sensors. Bring back ammo mods as mods and ditch them as
powers (that was a really stupid
idea!) and bring us some even deeper and more specific mods, such as
scopes for sniper rifles, silencers for heavy pistols, the ability to
give a three-round burst ability to a gun that normally doesn't have it,
etc. Have mods either buyable or researchable via the research system.
We need to be able to modify our guns, not merely upgrade them.


I don't understand.  You've got the radar.  You've got scopes for sniper rifles.  Some of these ideas sound interesting, but, well, others are - y'know - already in place.

#427
Terror_K

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Turin_4 wrote...
I don't understand.  You've got the radar.  You've got scopes for sniper rifles.  Some of these ideas sound interesting, but, well, others are - y'know - already in place.


The radar doesn't work like a proper radar in ME2 though, and is more akin to a compass than anything. I mean they need to bring back the ME1 style radar with the red triangles denoting enemy positions, and the chance they can scramble and block your radar unless you've got an appropriate mod in to counter that such as Combat Optics. It was a good device that was sorely missing from ME2. Some places not even having maps needs to go too: all locales should have a map the player can view if they choose to.

By "scopes for sniper rifles" I mean additional, better ones so you can mod your sniper rifle, and the same goes for the other things I mentioned. The way that they're "already in place" in ME2 is horrible because it's via the upgrade system that just allows you to upgrade everything too easily to max and doesn't actually let you properly modify your weapon. The player should be forced to pick and choose from a limited pool of modifications in order to customise their weapon... not just be given everything on a silver platter without penalty. Some things should admittedly be upgrades you research across the board, such as simple damage upgrades that basically level-up your weapons, but they have too many things just thrown at you without limits and everybody just ends up upgrading everything to the max and God-modding everything they have, and they don't even have to pay attention to what they're doing to do it: just click buttons every time new ones appear in your list until they're all gone. That doesn't encourage smart playing and choices, it doesn't encourage proper customisation and modification, and it's responsible to limiting choice and eliminating things like proper weapon modding and omni-tools and biotic amps. It's a classic case of ME2 taking simplification far, far, FAR too far.

Modifié par Terror_K, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:16 .


#428
smudboy

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Turin_4 wrote...

Echo!  echo...echo...

What's the difference between weapon mods and ammo powers?

#429
Guest_NewMessageN00b_*

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I also liked how the radar wasn't linear. The farther something was, the bigger the scale on radar in ME1.

#430
Rhomer

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iakus wrote...

Rhomer wrote...

.....Clarify someone which did ME2 feel like, an rpg or a shooter? Because I want an rpg (the very term means to role play) not a heavy shooter which ME2 came dangerously close to becoming isnt that what we want from Bioware is an rpg not a non plot rewarding "Gears Of War" in space clone?

Does anyone have this worry? I hope this can be addressed in the next installment it makes me and a lot of others worried. They even have Dragon Age fans worried with their next game.

Here I'll quote an interview on IGN with a Deus Ex developer
"IGN: I keep thinking back to Bioware, and how with Dragon Age and Mass Effect they're gradually stripping away the less intuitive elements.

JJB: Yeah... I'm not gonna tell you what I really think of them doing that. But there's always a way to make something rather complicated work well. Our game director is a pragmatic, no-bull**** kind of guy and I'm really lucky to be working with him... one of his main skills is to ask what the reason is for something, and then make it usable and understandable."

Yes Bioware thats the best explanation of what your rpg elements and other options should be like "usable and understandable", not stripping away and thus murdering what Fans love. Augment what we have and adapt, yet do not sacrificing too much of what is loved from the Mass Effect series.


Is it wrong that I'm more excited about Deus Ex: Human Revolution than I am about ME 3?

It's not wrong,  but hey Bioware is gonna lose fans if they keep butchering their games. I say they should stay on their old rpg path but touch it up, refine it. I am really looking forward to Deus Ex and as of ME3 I just hope they bring back some creativity to Mass Effect 3. And obviously give us a stellar storyline like the first, the second felt dry minus the crew's stories.

Modifié par Rhomer, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:11 .


#431
Rhomer

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BTW How are you guys gonna explain the Reapers treking all that way out of darkspace to the galaxy without the help of a relay? It would take them a long ass time otherwise and if it is so easy to get back into the galaxy, then why didn't they just disregard the relay not opening in ME1 and just go on anyway?

#432
Moiaussi

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Rhomer wrote...

BTW How are you guys gonna explain the Reapers treking all that way out of darkspace to the galaxy without the help of a relay? It would take them a long ass time otherwise and if it is so easy to get back into the galaxy, then why didn't they just disregard the relay not opening in ME1 and just go on anyway?


If the reapers either did build them or at least understand them as well as the race that did, they might not need them as anything more than a convenient shortcut. Without them, they may just not come out at the citadel and thus have to fight a real war for a change.

#433
Rhomer

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Moiaussi wrote...

Rhomer wrote...

BTW How are you guys gonna explain the Reapers treking all that way out of darkspace to the galaxy without the help of a relay? It would take them a long ass time otherwise and if it is so easy to get back into the galaxy, then why didn't they just disregard the relay not opening in ME1 and just go on anyway?


If the reapers either did build them or at least understand them as well as the race that did, they might not need them as anything more than a convenient shortcut. Without them, they may just not come out at the citadel and thus have to fight a real war for a change.

Hope they practiced a real war in those millions of years. I also guess they are patient bastards in regards to not just coming from Darkspace to begin with. Still I bet they have like a secret army lying in wait. I n those  visions besides the one where you see a collector, I bet they have like Reaper ground forces.

#434
brfritos

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smudboy wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Echo!  echo...echo...

What's the difference between weapon mods and ammo powers?


Weapon mods are different from ammo powers.
You have mods that add some type of munition to your weapons, but you have others that enhance the weapons differently (rate of fire, heat dissipation, damage, stability, etc)
Ammo powers only gives you some type of ammunition for use, nothing more.

And ammo powers don't make much sense, they exist in ME2 because the talents and gameplay was strip bared.

No wonder nobody takes Cerberus and Shepard seriously, they don't know the principals of warfare, combat and fighting.
Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?

Modifié par brfritos, 07 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .


#435
Rhomer

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brfritos wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Echo!  echo...echo...

What's the difference between weapon mods and ammo powers?


Weapon mods are different from ammo powers.
You have mods that add some type of munition to your weapons, but you have others that enhance the weapons differently (rate of fire, heat dissipation, damage, stability, etc)
Ammo powers only gives you some type of ammunition for use, nothing more.

And ammo powers don't make much sense, they exist in ME2 because the talents and gameplay was strip bared.

No wonder nobody takes Cerberus and Shepard seriously, they don't know the principals of warfare, combat and fighting.
Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?

Agreed, Good Insight

#436
Frybread76

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Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

I actually found it fun using the different mods and seeing what they did on your weapons.

Also, it really sounds like you don't like RPG elements and would be happy if ME3 was a straight third-person shooter without all of those pesky and "useless" elements from ME1.


Uh, I got into Mass Effect because I enjoyed KOTOR and Jade Empire, and the fact that this was BioWare's first gaming trilogy and the Western RPG equivalent of Sega's Shenmue, minus the ****ty management with the platform changes screwing over the first-game veterans bent on transfering their data to the sequel. While I somewhat enjoyed the RPG elements, the bad parts of the execution got grating. Inventory= Major league bull***** busy work just because of a cumbersome and clunky system. All of the Playstation 1 Resident Evil games' inventory systems functioned a lot faster than Mass Effect 1. BTW,  your comment still doesn't address the issues that half of the mods or ammo was freaking useless. Tell me with a straight face that you like to install "Energized Plating X" onto your armor if it only added a miniscule "+150 shield points" when I could use that slot for Medical Exoskeleton X, Kinetic Exoskeleton X or a Combat Exoskeleton for my armor? Could you tell me with a straight face that you would actually use ammunition that gives less damage despite better shield penetration? I sure as hell didn't, and found myself using Polonium, Sledgehammer, and Inferno Rounds while using my current mod settings I placed in my previous post. Thanks to Pinnacle Station, I even went far out of my way to make sure that every squad member had the exact same weapons setting and surprisingly the same Spectre X weapons just for the LULZ.



And, for the 50th time, I don't think anyone wants to bring back the exaxt same inventory system that was in ME1.  A smaller inventory for ME3 is what I want.


If it's still going to be the same clunky system except with fewer items, I see almost no point. KOTOR 1's inventory was better than ME1 solely for the organization purposes.


It just sounds to me like you don't like RPG elements; that you would prefer ME3 to just be a straight-up third-person shooter with the only RPG elements being a few upgradable skills/powers and a dialogue wheel for Paragon, Renegade and "neutral" options.

Myself, I'd like an inventory with upgrades for armors and weapons.  I'd also like to be able to get armors for squad mates so we don't have female characters running around in high heels and skin suits.  But that's just me.  I'd also like to be able to aquire a much wider range of weapons for each character.

And just because you think that "half the ammo mods are freaking useless" in ME1 doesn't mean they would have to be useless in ME3.  Just like the inventory, Bioware could improve the mods for weapons and armors to be more effective.

Modifié par Frybread76, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:27 .


#437
tonnactus

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Lunatic LK47 wrote...
Could you tell me with a straight face that you would actually use ammunition that gives less damage despite better shield penetration?


Yes,i did,and it work great against saren,who had far more shields then health.

#438
tonnactus

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Yeah, I'm with Turin.  Since they eliminated the inventory system (thank god) they still needed a gameplay convention to provide us with ammo mods, .


Then why restrict them for some classes,so only the soldier could use all of them? Its dumb and doesnt make the game better.Adept couldnt use cyro ammo,not even a weaker squad version. The infiltrator couldnt use inferno ammo.
And this makes the game better?  How that?

Modifié par tonnactus, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:57 .


#439
Darth Drago

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Rhomer wrote...

BTW How are you guys gonna explain the Reapers treking all that way out of darkspace to the galaxy without the help of a relay? It would take them a long ass time otherwise and if it is so easy to get back into the galaxy, then why didn't they just disregard the relay not opening in ME1 and just go on anyway?

-If you paid attention to the details during Tali’s recruitment mission and a little on what was said during her loyalty mission it seems likely that the Reapers have done something to the star in the Haestrom system.

From the Mass Effect Wiki and what Kal’Reager says:
“Quarian scientists are worried about dark energy destabilizing Dholen and causing it to mature into a red giant too rapidly by reducing the mass of its interior. Though there is a consensus that the geth were not responsible for the anomaly, it is left unclear as to whether this phenomenon is natural or artificial.”

My guess is the Reapers will turn the star into a some sort of portal like a super size mass relay or worm hole. If this is the way it will happen it seems to be a fairly weak backup plan considering what we have seen the Reapers and their minions do in both games already.

#440
Pocketgb

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tonnactus wrote...
Then why restrict them for some classes,so only the soldier could use all of them?


As previously stated, for gameplay. There's just as much reason for every class to have access to the ammo powers in ME2 as there is for every class to have electronics in ME1.

#441
tonnactus

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Pocketgb wrote...

tonnactus wrote...
Then why restrict them for some classes,so only the soldier could use all of them?


As previously stated, for gameplay. There's just as much reason for every class to have access to the ammo powers in ME2 as there is for every class to have electronics in ME1.

Actually,soldier and adepts could have electronics in Mass Effect...
As long as class specific talents like adrenaline rush couldnt be taken,its okay.The soldier class actually have enough
gameplay advantages. Ammo powers dont have to be one of them.

#442
Turin_4

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Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?




Can you imagine someone who doesn't know that perhaps a tank gunner or a fighter pilot might not, say, have the skills needed to manufacture, install, and maintain a weapon that can fire and reload depleted uranium ammunition? Just as a for-example. You are aware that the people who do that work aren't actually the gunners, right? Making bringing that up...well, pretty strange.



Oh, and smudboy...still hearing that echo. Something else, though: another example of your now typical movement of the goalposts. Just a short while ago, you were accusing me of having just come up with in this conversation the point you're now completely glossing over.



Strange. Echo...


#443
Whitering

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I was not thrilled with the change to the armor and I missed the strong character interactions. The plot was far more episodic in ME2, and while it was different I still greatly enjoyed it.



Thanks for changing the inventory system but the armor offerings were underwhelming. I stayed in the same armor all game through every replay because we couldn't disappear the damn helmets from the other armors...



The plot was more like several 30 minute episodes for each NPC, which wasn't bad but of varying quality. The Tali arc was incredible and truly enjoyable, more so than any part of ME1 I can think of. We got the character of EDI, whose interaction with our returning pilot produced some golden moments of comedy and awesomeness. The crew discussions were another wonderful addition. The engineers were a lot of fun and the others added to the urgency of the mission.



The combat was better, and there were some truly great missions. The suicide mission, unless spoiled by guides proved to be suspenseful and dangerous.



I missed Wrex though and I do not believe the Collector's lived up to even the Geth (backed by the specter of the Reapers of ME1) as antagonists, so I am looking forward the getting the real baddies full force in ME3. I REALLy hope that we do not magically start back at level 1 in ME3.



Last but not least, the downloadable content was better for ME2. I never did get Bring Down the Sky to work consistently which is just plain bull in today's day and age. I didn't have a problem with any ME2 content and Lair of the Shadowbroker was simply fantastic.

#444
P3G4SU5

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Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

I actually found it fun using the different mods and seeing what they did on your weapons.

Also, it really sounds like you don't like RPG elements and would be happy if ME3 was a straight third-person shooter without all of those pesky and "useless" elements from ME1.

*snip*

BTW,  your comment still doesn't address the issues that half of the mods or ammo was freaking useless. Tell me with a straight face that you like to install "Energized Plating X" onto your armor if it only added a miniscule "+150 shield points" when I could use that slot for Medical Exoskeleton X, Kinetic Exoskeleton X or a Combat Exoskeleton for my armor? Could you tell me with a straight face that you would actually use ammunition that gives less damage despite better shield penetration? I sure as hell didn't, and found myself using Polonium, Sledgehammer, and Inferno Rounds while using my current mod settings I placed in my previous post. Thanks to Pinnacle Station, I even went far out of my way to make sure that every squad member had the exact same weapons setting and surprisingly the same Spectre X weapons just for the LULZ.

Energized Plating X reduces damage taken by 23%, I believe you were thinking of Shield Interface X which increases shields by 160. You seem to be judging the usefulness of mods simply by which is the best, not on what parts you have available at a given time in your play through. Sure you might have used Shield Interface X if you didn't have Medical Exoskeleton X, Kinetic Exoskeleton X or a Combat Exoskeleton. Having the player become more powerful is a basic part of any game. One aspect of this is in ME were the modifications you find as you progressed and gained access to increasingly more powerful parts. The point was not to have over powerful mods available from the beginning, hence you may well choose to use alternative parts which serve you better until you acquire the most advanced components. You're also overlooking the fact that people play with different play styles e.g. people may actually prefer increased shields so that they don't lose shields in the first place and therefore not need to regenerate any health at all using Medical Interface X.

All of the ammo types in ME had their uses, you just had to experiment a little to discover what the optimum mod configuration was for a  given weapon.

And, for the 50th time, I don't think anyone wants to bring back the exaxt same inventory system that was in ME1.  A smaller inventory for ME3 is what I want.

If it's still going to be the same clunky system except with fewer items, I see almost no point. KOTOR 1's inventory was better than ME1 solely for the organization purposes.

The inventory system from ME needed to be streamlined, not gutted from the game. The research/salvage system in ME2 is alright, but it is no susbstitute for the ablility in ME to customize weapons. The research in ME2 consists of upgrades which simply improve weapon/biotic/tech abilities, giving increased damage, thermal clip capacity (another dubious concept once you think about it) etc.. There are no options to actually customize the weapons to personalise how you want to apply them in combat. Gone are the many ammo types (along with the ability for all classes to use them) and  cooling, damage, recoil and accuracy modifiers. All of these options enabled players to play in their own unique style, but they all became casualties of the scrapped inventory system.

The main complaint with the ME inventory was the time drain whilst sorting through inventory items. Instead of abandoning the concept entirely, Bioware could have done a number of things to massively improve the player experience of the inventory system. This includes:
  • Reducing the number of items that could be held in the inventory.
  • Allowing only one gun of each type to be carried (if a player picks up another weapon of the same type, they are switched. This means the player is no longer the walking arms dealer carrying entire ranges of armaments from different manufacturers).
  • Reducing the number of tiers for items. Reducing the I-X tiers to simply I-V would have massively reduced the number of items that could be accumulated. Also it would be much easier for the player to quickly assess the items they have and identify unwanted, inferior items. In addition, this would have given Bioware more time to focus more on the model design and texture work of the smaller range of armors and weapons, and enabled them to make them more distinctive than the same reused models and textures seen in ME.
  • Reducing/removing the ability to salvage the inventories of defeated enemies.
  • Restricting armor acquisition to purchases in shops and (perhaps) rare pickups in crates. It made no sense to kill an enemy by bypassing his shields and piercing his armor with scores of holes from your weapon of choice and then picking it up and wearing it yourself moments afterwards.
  • Introducing a storage container of some description, where items of interest could be stored until desired in the future.
  • A "Sell all unequipped items" button to quickly and easily dispose of excess unwanted items when speaking to vendors.
Altogether these changes would have decreased the time taken for inventory management whilst still retaining the enjoyable, functional elements.

Modifié par P3G4SU5, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:45 .


#445
smudboy

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Turin_4 wrote...

Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?


Can you imagine someone who doesn't know that perhaps a tank gunner or a fighter pilot might not, say, have the skills needed to manufacture, install, and maintain a weapon that can fire and reload depleted uranium ammunition? Just as a for-example. You are aware that the people who do that work aren't actually the gunners, right? Making bringing that up...well, pretty strange.

Oh, and smudboy...still hearing that echo. Something else, though: another example of your now typical movement of the goalposts. Just a short while ago, you were accusing me of having just come up with in this conversation the point you're now completely glossing over.

Strange. Echo...


So we can we get an answer on what makes the two different yet?

#446
Pacifien

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smudboy and Turin: If you guys would like to have a personal discussion between the two of you, you're welcome to take it to PM.

Modifié par Pacifien, 08 octobre 2010 - 03:24 .


#447
smudboy

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1) He stated ammo powers are more believable than weapon mods.
2) He then stated they're identical.
3) He then stated there's a small difference.

I'm merely asking him what the difference is.

I will then ask him how this small difference makes ammo powers more believable.

I will then start up a counter argument to explain in detail that his thinking is flawed.

Or name calling, whatever works.

#448
RiouHotaru

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brfritos wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Echo!  echo...echo...

What's the difference between weapon mods and ammo powers?


Weapon mods are different from ammo powers.
You have mods that add some type of munition to your weapons, but you have others that enhance the weapons differently (rate of fire, heat dissipation, damage, stability, etc)
Ammo powers only gives you some type of ammunition for use, nothing more.

And ammo powers don't make much sense, they exist in ME2 because the talents and gameplay was strip bared.

No wonder nobody takes Cerberus and Shepard seriously, they don't know the principals of warfare, combat and fighting.
Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?


....You do realize that ME1 had AMMO mods.  That altered the properties of your individual shots.  These were effectively rendered into Ammo Powers.

#449
Frotality

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i'll circumvent the all to common cyclical arguements regarding me1 vs me2 and just state my opinions for the community to interpret as they please:

this is a lengthy rant so tl;dr vesrion: ME2 not as immersive, ME1 immersed me in the universe and character better. im not attached to inventory and more weapons specifically, but they added personalization the ME2 lacks. ME2 feels disconnected from not only ME1 but itself (isolated stories, little connection or advancement of main plot). elevators rocked, i never complained about them; loading screens and mission complete screen really broke immersion for me, if only becuase elevators spoiled me with their awesome ability to flow the gameworld together. LOTSB and Overlord definite steps in the right direction and were awesome and single...double(?)-handedly renewed my hope for ME3.

simply put, ME1 was more fun for me than ME2. By Bioware's own definition of RPG, i find ME1 to surpass ME2 as an RPG as well. No, not becuase of inventory systems and deeper skill customization, but because of what they contributed to the role playing experience; i dont necessarily want either back. if bioware can deliver the same personalization and ultimately greater immersion into a character with some other gameplay device(s), then im all for it; but 2-3 weapons directly upgrading each other; weapon mods reduced to actual direct upgrades, a scant few armor choices, half of which of which cause shepard to splash liquor onto his faceplate and liara to voracially try to eat her way thru shepard's helmet, and a level system that is somehow supposed to be more accessible yet demands mathmatically perfect character builds just to get use out all your squad points...well, none of them did that for me.

the whole inventory/ lack of arguement (to me at least) boils down to one thing: customization. ME1 had a poorly designed and clunky inventory, i agree; but even if it got to the point where i stopped opening loot just to avoid sorting it out in the menu, it contributed to customization, and therfore personalization, and therefore, by my standards, immersion; and i think most agree thats what its all about. at the end of the day, i have no way whatsoever to customize my main weapons, barring purposefully using an obsolete  weapon; my point being, the shuriken and tempest function differently gameplay wise...but it doesnt matter, because the tempest is still better in every way, so whats the point of having the choice between burst and auto fire if auto is always better? im against the system of having a few weapons that vary significantly; but the variance really shouldnt be "this one you start with, and this one is better". In ME1, my sniper was completely different than Garrus'; I fired off a single tank shell of a bullet, while garrus shot multiple disruptor rounds. they were both the exact same model, but they functioned differently; thats what i enjoyed about inventory, it allowed that kind of variation. now the only difference is that garrus can fire off as many shots as he wants while im hoarding sniper rounds like a nuclear stockpile.

which leads me my next problem; keep your pants on, i dont hate the ammo system as a concept, i just think its poorly balanced. yes, i will forever be disapointed that bioware scrapped their innovative combat system for something so generic, but i've face the facts; any ammo system is a gameplay affair, and over all ME2 did improve the gameplay alot, so i can live with it; ammo works fine in plently of other games (and as it is a gameplay affiar, i am calling it ammo and not thernal sinks, cause thats what it functionally is). However, when i found out that i was using the collector particle beam more than my sniper, i figured something was wrong; i also figured that being able to carry twice as many homing missiles than sniper rounds probably had something to do with it. The ammo system was implemented to add tension to combat, which it might do for other classes, but for infiltrators like me im sure it mostly just added frustration. I've gotten perfect headshots with every round fired and found out the spray-and-praying with my soldier still used proportionally less ammo. you know added combat tension without annoyance? the explosive rounds from me1; i knew that with every shot i would be subject to a cooldown period so i only fired when i was sure it would hit; and this is with explosive rounds that hit everything within 20 feet; on normal. my point being, that combat was tense even when i could probably hit immunity and run around meleeing everything to death. Interestingly, LOTSB managed to partially rectify this; by simply putting more ammo on the ground. I could actually replenish my sniper to a respectable degree and conserve my shots on a fight by fight basis instead of having to break out a day planner to make effective use of them. so if combat tension is what you want... im still all for the hybrid system (maybe have that whole 'stuff regens faster out of combat' mechanic, ive always liked that); but as long as you can accomplish that balance; make me think about my shots for the fight, and not annoying me through the whole level, im good. oh, pistols to. carnifax was worthless; phalanx was awesome, but note it simultaneously has more ammo and is stronger (at least thats what ive experienced); so yeah, just balance it out more, and watch for tension becoming frustration.

the armor customization... a fine idea, but poorly implemented. could have worked perfectly if the full body armors came in pieces like the normal armor... and if there was a helmet toggle. ive heard some people wanting retractable faceplates, but i know that would be a pain to animate for every helmet, so i wouldnt mind a dragon age style ' remove helmet when drinks and smooching are imminent'.

the new leveling system? my biggest problem with it is actually pretty trivial, but in rpgs its often the little things that end up being the main immersion breakers (again, at least for me). If only Bioware had known how much the level up system could have been improved if only i could, you know... actually be allowed to fully level. why oh why must a break out a calculator just to be able to make use of all my points? why not completely circumvent this issue and just break up every skill into 10 sections i could level individually, with the specialized version unlocked at the 10th point? being the absolute end of the skill, and being so dramatic a difference would force us to think about what skills to get for actual gameplay reasons instead of investing 2 points into an ammo i'll never use and sacrificing a specialized skill just to have all my points in use. Moreover, im leveling my character based on a nonsensical game restraint instead what i actually want to level, and that further disconnects me from my character.

speaking of levels... that whole more linear than the original doom, segmented gameplay structure... thats ruining immersion to; makes the world feel very disconnected. here's my overly complicated reasoning: in ME1, you went to the citadel; you couldnt convince the council, so you looked for alternatives. you went to the wards, walked into the clinc and met garrus, whos pursuing a lead that could expose saren. then you mosied on over to choras den and took out fist. with new information, you rushed to the access hallway and saved tali. you got her to safety and got your evidence, then made your way to the council chambers, the evidence is irrefutable, and your made spectre so you can track down saren without bureaucracy getting in your way. that whole time, i was in the citadel; obviously; but heres what i mean: in omega, you arrive and make your way to afterlife. you get info on your 2 targets, maybe explore the general area some more and find some interesting things, but then you get down to business. so, you make your way to mordin's recruitment level, then after your done with that, do archangel's recruitment level. niether of those are on omega; they're isolated tracks of chest high boxes and hostiles. There wasnt a connected atmosphere on omega; there was the hub area, then there was 2 'levels'. ME1 blened this together very well, but ME2 treats them as completely different entities. i hope you get my meaning.

so yeah, ME2 felt very disconnected to me; it was a series of obstacle courses, some of which involved exploring daddy issues and recoloring outfits, with the main plot so awesomely introduced in ME1 put in as an after thought. i felt disconnected from shepard, with his generic equipment and deadpan interactions with his LI; from the main plot; going after the collectors because the evil genius who traumatized me for life and consistently betrays me told me to; and from the universe as a whole, which felt alien to the one i experienced in ME1.

..but on a positive note, the combat was much more fun, there was plenty of amusing (and meaningful) fanservice, and the DLC (i am of cource speaking of LOTSB and Overlord)... just...wow.  Definite step in the right direction. hell, youve basically leaped out of the bus driving down the highway to hell and grasped the side of the stairway to heaven as far as im concerned. 2 very excellent pieces of storytelling; ive already completely forgiven liara's base game interactions. The romance scene? best in the game, and a template of should've been done with the other LIs; avoiding spoilers, an oppurtunity for shepard to voice his true opinion made it all worthwhile. And Overlord may very well have made me fell more empathy than i've ever felt for an actuall human being; and thats a testament to its excellent presentation, not me being emotionally dead BTW :P

ME2 really felt like a case of over... or rather supercompensating for the flaws of the first...but the great storytelling and other improvements of the DLC have me hopeful that bioware can actually make a great balanced game out of ME3.

im already starting to rant off-topic, so ill stop now.

#450
Frybread76

Frybread76
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RiouHotaru wrote...

brfritos wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Echo!  echo...echo...

What's the difference between weapon mods and ammo powers?


Weapon mods are different from ammo powers.
You have mods that add some type of munition to your weapons, but you have others that enhance the weapons differently (rate of fire, heat dissipation, damage, stability, etc)
Ammo powers only gives you some type of ammunition for use, nothing more.

And ammo powers don't make much sense, they exist in ME2 because the talents and gameplay was strip bared.

No wonder nobody takes Cerberus and Shepard seriously, they don't know the principals of warfare, combat and fighting.
Can you imagine a tank gunner or a fighter pilot that don't know how to use shells with depleted uranium?


....You do realize that ME1 had AMMO mods.  That altered the properties of your individual shots.  These were effectively rendered into Ammo Powers.


But every class had access to ammo mods in ME1, whereas for some reason only certain classes have access to certain ammo super powers.