1700 réponses à ce sujet

[Terror_K]

Nightwriter wrote...

Right. I've never seen Babylon 5...

Seriously, hunt it down and watch it. If you love Mass Effect as more than a game and love the universe and overall style of it, then there's a good chance you'll love Babylon 5. While ME takes a lot of inspiration from a lot of sci-fi, B5 is without question by far the strongest. It even has a Dark Star bar and a Lazarus Project in it. Beyond that, it's just a really good sci-fi show.

[Moiaussi]

If you like a series with strong continuity and a coherent overall plot spanning the entire series, then Babylon 5 is for you (note that is sort of how the ME trilogy was billed too, leading to the disappointment of some of us regarding a weak ME2 plot).



If you prefer episodic shows where each time you watch you see a completely self contained story (barring 2 part'ers), you will be less keen on Bab 5 and are probably less critical of ME2.

[smudboy]

Terror_K wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Right. I've never seen Babylon 5...

Seriously, hunt it down and watch it. If you love Mass Effect as more than a game and love the universe and overall style of it, then there's a good chance you'll love Babylon 5. While ME takes a lot of inspiration from a lot of sci-fi, B5 is without question by far the strongest. It even has a Dark Star bar and a Lazarus Project in it. Beyond that, it's just a really good sci-fi show.

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...

Re: The Council in ME2-- I think the best explanation would be that they don't want to cause worry, fear and panic throughout the galaxy and perhaps think it's best that as far as The Reapers go they're still largely an unknown. Look at Babylon 5 --already a clear inspiration for ME-- when Sheridan, Delenn and co. knew about The Shadows but chose to keep it secret to not only stop fear spreading throughout the galaxy but to make The Shadows think they're presence wasn't common knowledge. It's a perfectly good reason for it.

Still, that said, if that were the case it should have been explained more rather than not. As it stands The Council does either look stupid, ignorant or evil, as as corrupt as they may be in some ways, overall they're still supposed to be the good guys and looking out for those in their domain.

Indeed.  I could see them trying to keep a lid on things, or see them thinking that Sovereign's death solved the Reaper problem. 

If they were trying to keep a lid on things, that should have ben explained with something other than "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'"   Denyong the existence of Reapers to Shepard...in B5 terms that strikes me as silly as Sheridan and Delenn trying to convince Marcus that the Shadows don't exist.

[Moiaussi]

It really doesn't help that Shepard is scripted to have essentially no understanding of discretion. With him running about saying to everyone in sight "HI!, can you help me fight these nigh mythical beings that are about to invade the galaxy at any momment?' to every one in sight, it certainly doesn't inspire any 'need to know.'

Of course is is a marine with no formal training as a field agent... (not even by the Alliance it seems, N7 or no). Pretty sure that even on a bad day, US agents are taught at least discretion. At least set him down in front of a Bond marathon or something, lol.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 14 octobre 2010 - 03:25 .

[JaegerBane]

Turin_4 wrote...

Smudboy, the mod asked us to drop it between us.  I've dropped it with you.  It ain't hard.

---------

Turin, no offence, but what on earth are you talking about?

Jaegerbane,

Well, I didn't quite understand what was being said, so I should have asked for a clarification.  People were saying ammo powers aren't the 'manifested worth' of hacks or biotic powers.  I was challenging that assertion by pointing out that ammo powers can in fact be very effective.  But if they're not 'manifestly worth' (I'm still not quite sure what's meant by that)...then honestly, what on Earth is the big deal?

By 'manifested worth' (not the clearest concept to bind up in two words, I concede) I mean that the basic idea of carrying an omni-tool  isn't, in itself, potent - it's the ability to use it to hack computers it in combat and do it effectively. Similarly, the mere presence of eezo and a bio-amp isn't potent in of itself, but being able to use them  rapidly, accurately and effectively enough to pitch people off buildings and tear opponents apart etc is where it proves it's worth.

Or, to put it succinctly, the simple idea of carrying around an omni-tool or a bio amp is not what defines the ability. With ammo, however, it is, as it's not the result of training and talent. It's a block of material you load into a gun and pull the trigger.

It needs as much specialist talent as brushing your teeth does, ergo, it shouldn't really be something restricted to certain classes.

[Moiaussi]

And everyone knows that only an expert can load their allies' weapons! lol, sigh...

[vigna]

I didn't mind most of the combat/inventory changes. It would have been nice to be able to sell excess minerals at fuel depots though--so you could make some money. Money was a bit too scarce in ME2.



I miss the inventory, but I mostly only miss it as a wealth generator, and I like to switch up my teams outfits/armors for a change of pace in a 50 hour+ game (the way i play it).



My biggest gripe was just the letdown of the suicide mission. First time through I didn't cheat and I only lost Jack and half the crew (I only lost the crew because I didn't realize time was an issue). I liked the urgency that i felt and how we were forced to hurry to save people, but I never felt in trouble at all...the only true problem was that I almost completely ran out of ammo. I didn't feel the "against all odds" I felt during the Saren/Citadel battle.

[Frybread76]

Jebel Krong wrote...

morrie23 wrote...

For the benefit of Jebel:

"Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."

From the ME Codex. Can't argue with that.

if you knew anything about science, you'd know that in a vacuum you don't lose heat, you are unlikely to come into contact with toxins and you'd have to be sufficiently close to a star for radiation to be a significant problem (in most cases) so how does that affect barriers containing an atmosphere? - that's right it doesn't.

And what's your definition of being "sufficiently close to a star"?  1 AU?  Being in the same solar system?

[Moiaussi]

vigna wrote...

I didn't mind most of the combat/inventory changes. It would have been nice to be able to sell excess minerals at fuel depots though--so you could make some money. Money was a bit too scarce in ME2..

The whole mineral thing was nuts though. Why and how are we going around strip mining the entire Terminus system in a frigate?

If it is that easy, why hasn't it already been done? All these pirates risking their necks to attack spacecraft that most of the time would simply disenage and never let them close enough to even attempt to board, when they could be rich off easy exploitation of appearantly insanely easy to mine mineral rich planets.

Not to mention the bizzareness of the region ending up mineral free and barren due to the actions of one small ship...

In ME1 it might have been more tedius, but at least the sites were merely being marked, and the compensation was in credits..... pay bonuses for doing survey work on behalf of the Alliance. Here we are (appearantly) taking the minerals directly on board and working with them in a relatively small lab with what appears to be limited equipment.

[Big I]

Moiaussi wrote...

The whole mineral thing was nuts though. Why and how are we going around strip mining the entire Terminus system in a frigate?

If it is that easy, why hasn't it already been done? All these pirates risking their necks to attack spacecraft that most of the time would simply disenage and never let them close enough to even attempt to board, when they could be rich off easy exploitation of appearantly insanely easy to mine mineral rich planets.

Not to mention the bizzareness of the region ending up mineral free and barren due to the actions of one small ship...

In ME1 it might have been more tedius, but at least the sites were merely being marked, and the compensation was in credits..... pay bonuses for doing survey work on behalf of the Alliance. Here we are (appearantly) taking the minerals directly on board and working with them in a relatively small lab with what appears to be limited equipment.

If we assume that the probes the Normandy stocks are similar in size and function to the crashed probes you come across in ME, there's no way we're actually mining these minerals. Also, as you said, the idea that one ship could deplete an entire planet of it's supply of an element is farcical.

I just assumed that we were using probes to put down mineral beacons, but instead of getting paid in credits we get a cut of the mined minerals.

[Moiaussi]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

If we assume that the probes the Normandy stocks are similar in size and function to the crashed probes you come across in ME, there's no way we're actually mining these minerals. Also, as you said, the idea that one ship could deplete an entire planet of it's supply of an element is farcical.

I just assumed that we were using probes to put down mineral beacons, but instead of getting paid in credits we get a cut of the mined minerals.

But we get those minerals instantly... literally on the spot. That can work with credits via electronic transfer, but how do you 'electronicly transfer' 1000 lbs of Palladium to a starship nowhere near anyone else?

It isn't a matter of a transfer of rights either, since Mordin has to be on the ship to get any research done.

[JaegerBane]

Moiaussi wrote...

And everyone knows that only an expert can load their allies' weapons! lol, sigh...

Yeah, exactly - completely aside from the absurdity of needing to be a certain class to load a special ammo, it's taken one step further by, apparently, the user 'projecting' the ammo like some sort of magic spell to all other team mate's weapons.

This made sense in Dragon Age: Origins. And to be fair, from what we're told of Warp Ammo, this is fair enough - but then, that's because it's conceptually a biotic power. The logic doesn't work for stuff like Cryo ammo.

[JaegerBane]

LookingGlass93 wrote...
If we assume that the probes the Normandy stocks are similar in size and function to the crashed probes you come across in ME, there's no way we're actually mining these minerals. Also, as you said, the idea that one ship could deplete an entire planet of it's supply of an element is farcical.

I just assumed that we were using probes to put down mineral beacons, but instead of getting paid in credits we get a cut of the mined minerals.

To be fair, I assumed that this was a simplified view of the Normandy firing a probe down to investigate readngs indicating a particularly rich lode of mineral that was near the surface. I didn't think it was that weird.

Of course, that's how I felt mining rocky planets. Firing a probe and retrieving a chunk of platinum from a gas giant, however.... that was plain bizarre. What was strangest of all is that Bioware actually made this plausible in ME1 - you acquired gas concentrations from gas giants.

[JaegerBane]

Terror_K wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Right. I've never seen Babylon 5...

Seriously, hunt it down and watch it. If you love Mass Effect as more than a game and love the universe and overall style of it, then there's a good chance you'll love Babylon 5. While ME takes a lot of inspiration from a lot of sci-fi, B5 is without question by far the strongest. It even has a Dark Star bar and a Lazarus Project in it. Beyond that, it's just a really good sci-fi show.

I'd agree with the B5 love, but it's a tall claim to say B5 is the strongest influence. I'd say there's equally as much taken from Space: Above and Beyond, Revelation Space and Battlestar Galactica (the reimagined series).

[JaegerBane]

Wittand25 wrote...

My biggest dissapointment was that although they said ME2 was about building a team,but that was not true.
ME2 was about recruiting a buch of powerful individuals during individual missions, talk to them in seperate rooms on board of the ship, and do their individual loyality missions.
You never have a team you just have a group of powerful individuals who barely even register the existance of other teammembers. Combined with the lacking main storyline this made ME2 a far weaker expirience than it could have been.

That's actually a good point. Even more team banter would have helped - something like what they did in Dragon Age (some of Alistair/Dog discussions were hilarious )

[Moiaussi]

JaegerBane wrote...

That's actually a good point. Even more team banter would have helped - something like what they did in Dragon Age (some of Alistair/Dog discussions were hilarious )

I still don't understand why they couldn't have had an actual marine barracks for them. The SR-1 allegedly had room for 6 marines, and the SR-2 is allegedly twice the size....

[Darth Drago]

iakus wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Re: The Council in ME2-- I think the best explanation would be that they don't want to cause worry, fear and panic throughout the galaxy and perhaps think it's best that as far as The Reapers go they're still largely an unknown. Look at Babylon 5 --already a clear inspiration for ME-- when Sheridan, Delenn and co. knew about The Shadows but chose to keep it secret to not only stop fear spreading throughout the galaxy but to make The Shadows think they're presence wasn't common knowledge. It's a perfectly good reason for it.

Still, that said, if that were the case it should have been explained more rather than not. As it stands The Council does either look stupid, ignorant or evil, as as corrupt as they may be in some ways, overall they're still supposed to be the good guys and looking out for those in their domain.

Indeed. I could see them trying to keep a lid on things, or see them thinking that Sovereign's death solved the Reaper problem.

If they were trying to keep a lid on things, that should have ben explained with something other than "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'" Denyong the existence of Reapers to Shepard...in B5 terms that strikes me as silly as Sheridan and Delenn trying to convince Marcus that the Shadows don't exist.

-Totally agree that the Council dialogs are very poorly written, nbot like the game has a lot of good written parts as it is of ourse. I can understand that the “official” word is that Reapers don’t exist but Shepard, Anderson, Udina, and quite a few others know the truth about them. So why are they going in hand in hand with the Council’s stupidity/ignorance lines and to top it off bluntly shutting out the ONLY person who really knows about them and the real threat they represent, Shepard.

Its not like when your talking to the Council (for that whopping few seconds in ME2), Anderson or Udina about the Reapers that they don’t have top level security clearance about this sensitive Reaper topic. Shepard is or at least was a Spectre as well. So again, why do we get the stupidity lines about Reapers at every turn? Oh wait, that’s because ME2 stinks on so many levels because its catered and designed as a “standalone” game despite being part 2 of a trilogy.

[Terror_K]

JaegerBane wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Right. I've never seen Babylon 5...

Seriously, hunt it down and watch it. If you love Mass Effect as more than a game and love the universe and overall style of it, then there's a good chance you'll love Babylon 5. While ME takes a lot of inspiration from a lot of sci-fi, B5 is without question by far the strongest. It even has a Dark Star bar and a Lazarus Project in it. Beyond that, it's just a really good sci-fi show.

I'd agree with the B5 love, but it's a tall claim to say B5 is the strongest influence. I'd say there's equally as much taken from Space: Above and Beyond, Revelation Space and Battlestar Galactica (the reimagined series).

I still think B5 trumps them all as far as influence goes. I mean, if you look at the parallels between the following:-

B5 and The Citadel
The 5 major Ambassadors and The Council
The League of Non-Aligned World and The associate races (Volus, Hanar, Elcor, etc.)
The Earth-Mimbari War and The First Contact War/Relay 314 Incident
The Shadows + Vorlons and The Reapers
The White Star and The Normandy
Telepaths and Biotics
The Psy Core and Conatix + BAaT
President Clark's Administration + The Psy Core and Cerberus
Dust and Red Sand + Minagen X3
Night Watch and Terra Firma
The Dark Star Bar and The Dark Star Lounge
The Lazarus Project and The Lazarus Project

Modifié par Terror_K, 15 octobre 2010 - 06:06 .

[Jebel Krong]

Frybread76 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

morrie23 wrote...

For the benefit of Jebel:

"Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."

From the ME Codex. Can't argue with that.

if you knew anything about science, you'd know that in a vacuum you don't lose heat, you are unlikely to come into contact with toxins and you'd have to be sufficiently close to a star for radiation to be a significant problem (in most cases) so how does that affect barriers containing an atmosphere? - that's right it doesn't.

And what's your definition of being "sufficiently close to a star"?  1 AU?  Being in the same solar system?

doesn't matter because you're not reliant on just barriers for protection, let alone (within context of the conversation) a reaper/superstructure & taking into account clothing/armour.

[Jebel Krong]

Darth Drago wrote...
*snip* nbot like the game has a lot of good written parts as it is of ourse.

indeed? the fact that it's the same group of writers who did both games, made the first one great and the second one rubbish? <_< i honestly don't know why (stupid) trolls are allowed to post their often outrageously inaccurate bile here, other than BW is more open to - even invalid - criticism, than you deserve.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 15 octobre 2010 - 02:08 .

[smudboy]

Terror_K wrote...

Don't forget Red Sand/Dust.

edit: Doh, you didn't!

You see?  From Bab5, all good things come.

Modifié par smudboy, 15 octobre 2010 - 02:14 .

[JaegerBane]

Terror_K wrote...
I still think B5 trumps them all as far as influence goes. I mean, if you look at the parallels between the following:-

B5 and The Citadel
The 5 major Ambassadors and The Council
The League of Non-Aligned World and The associate races (Volus, Hanar, Elcor, etc.)
The Earth-Mimbari War and The First Contact War/Relay 314 Incident
The Shadows + Vorlons and The Reapers
The White Star and The Normandy
Telepaths and Biotics
The Psy Core and Conatix + BAaT
President Clark's Administration + The Psy Core and Cerberus
Dust and Red Sand + Minagen X3
Night Watch and Terra Firma
The Dark Star Bar and The Dark Star Lounge
The Lazarus Project and The Lazarus Project

I think you're seeing what you want to see here, Terror. A lot of the 'parallels' you mention are *very, very* vague similarities, to the extent you could substitute practically any sci-fi in there and call it a parallel.

I mean, really... what similariity do the Shadows/Vorlons/Any other First Ones share with the Reapers aside from being very old? What does Clark's regime *really* share with Cerberus other than the fact they're both evil? What do B5 and the Citadel really share other than simply being space stations? The comparisons are *extremely* superficial. Some of them, such as the Earth-Minbar War/First Contact War are only parallels in one concept (in this case the fact they were wars started by a misunderstanding) - virtually every other aspect of them was completely different.

I do agree that there are similarities, particularly between the whole Minbari/Asari concepts, the Biotic/Telepath idea and the nature of the Earth Alliance/Human Systems Alliance, but much of the stuff you've posted above is so generic that the parallel only makes sense on the most simplistic level.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 15 octobre 2010 - 04:17 .

[Moiaussi]

Terror_K wrote...

I still think B5 trumps them all as far as influence goes. I mean, if you look at the parallels between the following:-

B5 and The Citadel
The 5 major Ambassadors and The Council
The League of Non-Aligned World and The associate races (Volus, Hanar, Elcor, etc.)
The Earth-Mimbari War and The First Contact War/Relay 314 Incident
The Shadows + Vorlons and The Reapers
The White Star and The Normandy
Telepaths and Biotics
The Psy Core and Conatix + BAaT
President Clark's Administration + The Psy Core and Cerberus
Dust and Red Sand + Minagen X3
Night Watch and Terra Firma
The Dark Star Bar and The Dark Star Lounge
The Lazarus Project and The Lazarus Project

The citadel doesn't really count in that there are other babylon stations. DS9 could be just as much an influence due to the proximity to the wormhole. Also the game is primarily set off of the station rather than on.

I think the UN security council is a better analogy for the Council.

The associate races in ME are not really allied or 'in league.' The are much closer to non-security council countries in the UN, with similar issues and complaints.

Major similarities with the first contact war and with the shadows, although we haven't really seen anything similar to the vorlons, unless you count the protheans.

The White Star is a Cruiser rather than a Frigate. As an analogy to the Normandy, the Defiant from DS9 comes to mind, which I think is rated as either an escort frigate or escort destroyer. It is also upgunned for its size class and pretty much a pure warship (rather than any of the Enterprise's, which are primarily exporatory/first contact vessels).

Definate similarities with biotics, but not so sure about Psy corp specificly and definately not pre. clark's administration. That would only fit if Cerberus got voted into power. That hasn't happened with Terra Firma , at least not yet. Night Watch maybe, but I don't remember them being a political party. More like fanatic vigilanties. Maybe closer to one of the merc groups?

The concept of Lazarus projects (and or Lazarus) predates B5 by rather a long time. Besides, Shepard never got any cryptic warning about his death, and I think in B5 that was more of a Gandalf homage than anything else. "If you go to Z'ha'dum, you will die." The proper dwarvish name of Moria (where Gandalf died, later to return as Gandalf the white) was Khazad'dum.

[Moiaussi]

Heh we could probably do an entire separate thread on similarities with B5. I think there are enough... only problem would be we would need B5 spoiler disclaimers