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[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

When did I turn into a woman?

jlb524 wrote...

Hmm..I agree, and thanks for the compliment.

If you are posting here, it seems you are disappointed with ME2 as well...why exactly?

Well it started at the beginning. When I was playing the opening of the game.

Then it got worse from there.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

When did I turn into a woman?

Don't feel bad. I thought LET was a woman. 

[Pacifien]

Okay, if those in the thread at the moment are currently not disappointed with ME2, can they kindly exit through the side doors and allow the thread to get back on-topic...

[Nightwriter]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

When did I turn into a woman?

Don't feel bad. I thought LET was a woman. 

No, I... know kraidy isn't a woman. I just have no idea where the comment "when did I turn into a woman?" came from. No idea.

In fact his new affiliations with the Liara fanbase threw me for a loop.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well it started at the beginning. When I was playing the opening of the game.

Then it got worse from there.

Was it the fact that you were pigeonholed into doing little personal loyaly missions while the entire galaxy was at stake?

I don't want to belittle these missions or the problems that the individual ME2 squad mates had in their lives but, come on!  Can't they put it all aside for the sake of the mission?

[TMA LIVE]

I was disappointed with the fact that the recruiting and loyalty missions were the plot. I thought they were getting repetitive because you had to go through 10 or 12 of them. I kept thinking about those colonists getting abducted, while my Shepard's dancing in Afterlife, trying to get Morinth's attention. I mean, do they not matter that much that I have this much free time?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:19 .

[jlb524]

I felt the plot was fine up and through Horizon. You go recruit some people for the mission...fine. You go save half a colony from Collectors...fine.

Then, Kelly is all like 'Jacob would like to speak with you.'

'Miranda wants to see you.'

'Grunt is agitated'

'Jack wants to see you in her hidey hole'

And, yeah, then the game starts to get tedious and pointless.

Though I don't mind blowing up an old Cerburus base to make Jack happy, but...can it wait for a bit?...I'm in the middle of saving the galaxy.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:20 .

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I felt the plot was fine up and through Horizon. You go recruit some people for the mission...fine. You go save half a colony from Collectors...fine.

Then, Kelly is all like 'Jacob would like to speak with you.'

'Miranda wants to see you.'

'Grunt is agitated'

'Jack wants to see you in her hidey hole'

And, yeah, then the game starts to get tedious and pointless.

Though I don't mind blowing up an old Cerburus base to make Jack happy, but...can't it wait...I'm in the middle of saving the galaxy.

That's why I hope in ME3, you just have 6 members this time. Less characters means there's more focus on them, instead of 12 characters with 12 loyalty missions, and most of them don't serve a real purpose.

[jlb524]

Or, they could just scrap loyalty missions. The recruitment wasn't the problem, just all the loyalty crap.



In ME1, you recruited your whole team in the first level, minus Liara. They were already 'loyal' and committed to the mission. Sure, some had side quests in which you could get to know them a bit more, but those were optional and not part of the main plot. The main plot stood on its own.



In ME2, the main plot gets lost amongst all these loyalty missions.



I would still prefer a smaller crew, but, that means some people's faves won't be back as squad mates in ME3. Fans don't want that, it seems.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Or, they could just scrap loyalty missions. The recruitment wasn't the problem, just all the loyalty crap.

In ME1, you recruited your whole team in the first level, minus Liara. They were already 'loyal' and committed to the mission. Sure, some had side quests in which you could get to know them a bit more, but those were optional and not part of the main plot. The main plot stood on its own.

In ME2, the main plot gets lost amongst all these loyalty missions.

I would still prefer a smaller crew, but, that means some people's faves won't be back as squad mates in ME3. Fans don't want that, it seems.

Well, I agree that I want the "loyalty" bit removed, but I still would like personal side missions with them, that are of the same quality of the loyalty missions. I'd like the idea of doing an hour long mission with just the character, and be able to change him/her. But like you said, they should be more optional, and not "do this, or they die". Or not "do this, or you'll shed half your gameplay from your game."

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:34 .

[Nightwriter]

jlb524 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Well it started at the beginning. When I was playing the opening of the game.

Then it got worse from there.

Was it the fact that you were pigeonholed into doing little personal loyaly missions while the entire galaxy was at stake?

I don't want to belittle these missions or the problems that the individual ME2 squad mates had in their lives but, come on!  Can't they put it all aside for the sake of the mission?

Bonding with characters should not be a chore. Neither should it be the whole story.

No, for me it began at the very beginning. With the prologue description. I think I wanted it to read more like this:

"One standard month after the Battle of the Citadel, the galaxy is thrown into chaos as the vast species of galactic space struggle with the realization that a strange new life form has sinister plans for the spacefaring races of the galaxy.

Citadel and non-Citadel space alike quake in turmoil as a thousand different reactions pour in from a thousand different directions, and every civilization from the hanar Illuminated Primacy to the batarian Hegemony rise up in demand of answers. The galaxy has exploded with noise; the Citadel tower thunders with the cries of thousands; the Council's grip on galactic stabiity teeters on the brink of collapse as it turns desperately to its Spectres, whom it has never needed more.

The galaxy demands to hear from the person who stood at the heart of the explosion that swept galactic space: Commander Shepard."

Or something.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Well, I agree that I want the "loyalty" bit removed, but I still would like personal side missions with them, that are of the same quality of the loyalty missions. I'd like the idea of doing an hour long mission with just the character, and be able to change him/her. But like you said, they should be more optional, and not "do this, or they die". Or not "do this, or you'll shed half your gameplay from your game."

The loyalty missions would also be OK if they tied into the main story somehow....like Liara's LotSB mission did.

@Night

I like your idea for a prologue better!  They should have really shown that big things were wrong in the galaxy...that bad things were going to happen and stuff was changing for the worse.  Of course, the Reapers are behind this.  

This kind of exists in ME2 with the Collectors, but it's on a very small scale...it only affects humans, and no one cares about it...not even humans (the Alliance).

Modifié par jlb524, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:41 .

[only1sgop]

I felt like babysitting the whole time, really I didn't mind that. I hated Miranda's loyalty mission sooo much. In my opinion, it felt like a total waste of time. I could understand some of the other missions like the Justicar's one if she didn't have a clear head how where you going to bat off the swarm of those paralyzing bugs. Personally, I would not like to use Jack due to her being too emotional.

I am disappointed not being able to use the Mako, gernades, and having Ashely as a party member.  I totally liked the elevator rides. I miss that soo much. What ever happened to the Batarian from the first ME1 that got away when I saved the hostages from the bomb instead of killing him. At least, I did save the planet from the huge rock that was going to destroy the planet and got his 2nd in command to turn on him. I just wished Bioware would have followed that up too. While playing ME2 and I was in Omega at the Afterlife, I was chuckling about what happened to Fist and the woman mercenary that I let go from ME1 ended up on Omega talking about they changed their ways. lol

Modifié par only1sgop, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:44 .

[Nightwriter]

jlb524 wrote...

This kind of exists in ME2 with the Collectors, but it's on a very small scale...it only affects humans, and no one cares about it...not even humans (the Alliance).

It's definitely a big step down. For me, at least. I felt like I was doing something big and important in ME1, but not in ME2.

Then came Lazarus Station, for which Shepard has the dullest lines ever. Could've been a great opportunity to give Shepard some interesting lines, show Miranda and Jacob that Shepard wasn't just a project, but a person. One they didn't expect.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 17 octobre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Smaller squad, more depth and relevance > larger squad, less depth and relevance. In other words, ME1 > ME2 -- when it comes to this particular issue, for one.



I have to admit, the idea of ME2's plot/story is brilliant in its own right. The sole problem with it is how it was executed; it could have been light-years better than this. It's quite literally a wasted opportunity if you think about it.

[Nightwriter]

Then comes the first TIM conversation.

Seriously, I kind of felt like I was on an acid trip. Everything was so sudden. I wake up and leave Lazarus before I understand what happened. Then I agree to join up with Cerberus before I understand the threat.

And I recruit squadmates before I understand why I need them.

[Iakus]

jlb524 wrote...

The loyalty missions would also be OK if they tied into the main story somehow....like Liara's LotSB mission did.

Indeed.

Bioware has always put "personal missions" into their games.  At least some of your campanions have a problem you can help them deal with.  It's usually an interesting little sidequest you can do that reveals something about the person's background, gives you a look at what makes him/her/it tick. Retrieve HK-47's lost memories.  Help Wynne find her long lost apprentice.  Advise Anomen about what to do about his sister's death.  Uncover the truth about the Black Whirlwind's brother.  And so on.  Interesting quests which have no impact on the game as a whole.

In Mass Effect 2, all the characters have their own missions.  The problem is, while they might make for good side quests, they have zilch to do with the main story, save for the "don't kill me" flag they get for the Suicide Mission.  In essence, they're side quests pushed into the forefront without actually making them main story missions.  If they had somehow been tied, even tenuously to the main story, that would have given them a lot more meaning:

If Thane's wife had disappeared, rather than been killed.  Thane's mission could have been learning that his enemies kidnapped her and sold her to the Collectors.

Grunt's acting up because Okeer's screwed something up in creating him, have to find some piece of Collector technology and krogan DNA to put it right (and become a true Urdnot)

Collectors are after Garrus and/or Tali, because they're companions of Shepard too, (like the Virmire Survivor)

And so on

[Fiery Phoenix]

iakus wrote...

If Thane's wife had disappeared, rather than been killed.  Thane's mission could have been learning that his enemies kidnapped her and sold her to the Collectors.

That would actually be a good one. Imagine if it's the Collectors that murdered Irikah instead of those shameless batarians...

Like I said, WASTED OPPORTUNITY!

[Nightwriter]

I loved the loyalty missions, but I wish they had meant something. They don't. Aside from a simple game mechanic.

You talk about the mission like, once, right after it happened, and then it's on to the next character development one night stand.

[SimonTheFrog]

iakus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The loyalty missions would also be OK if they tied into the main story somehow....like Liara's LotSB mission did.

In essence, they're side quests pushed into the forefront without actually making them main story missions.  If they had somehow been tied, even tenuously to the main story, that would have given them a lot more meaning:

I see your point, but the way the game explains the player what he's doing is, that he assembles the best people for the jobs and it would really be a friggin coincidence if all of them were directly linked to the main plot already. See, either you have heros packed together by fate or actually picked by recommendation... mixing both is a bit too much.

So, in this case i think its fine if they just have personal stuff they need to resolve before being ready to fully commit to something that might turn out deadly. 

I thought that there were too many daddies involved etc... but the basic concept was kinda sound i guess.

anyway... just my opinion

[Nightwriter]

Well... not really. Because you'd specifically be going after these people because they're connected to the Collectors. For the same reason you went after Mordin.

[Terror_K]

Having everybody tie directly in with The Collector's plot due to personal reasons would have come across as too convenient and contrived. It was already bad enough that four key ME1 characters are all within quarter of a mile of each other on Illium, let alone having everybody directly linked to The Collectors. What they needed to do was actually give them a reason to actually be the best of the best for this mission. As it stands Mordin is the only one who really directly ties into them, the rest are just there for the suicide mission and that's about it. Any strong asari biotic would likely be a better choice than Jack simply because they'd at least be more stable and could be trusted more. What you need the biotic for isn't even known until you actually arrive at the Collector's base. They needed to actually tie them more into the preparations and Collector-related missions prior to the Suicide Mission itself too. Some had upgrades for The Normandy too, but this was another thing that we didn't know until we already had them. Much like Horizon was almost a justification for Mordin's presence, there should have been some other smaller Collector missions keyed to the other players to give them cause to be there.

[Nightwriter]

It would not feel convenient or contrived. Oy.

That is like saying it is convenient and contrived to find things you're looking for. You would seek these characters out because of their connection to the Collectors, or because they have some Collector relevance, like Mordin.

With characters like Jack or Thane or Samara, it's a problem that they don't have connections to the Collectors, because you're constantly wondering why they choose to be here.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Terror, we're not saying every single squadmate must have some connection to the Collectors; we're simply saying it would have been better if part of them were actually involved with the Collectors in some way. Remember the ME1 squadmates; at least half of them were in fact related to the ongoing story. In ME2, only Mordin is, and there's a whole 12 of them.

[Nightwriter]

I'd say Zaeed, Kasumi, Garrus and Tali don't really need a connection.

Thane, Samara, Jack, and Grunt should've all had one.