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Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion. Volume 2


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#751
Iakus

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SimonTheFrog wrote...

I always hated this part of hero-battles. If you have a team of heros with different special abilities, during the big fight all find a convenient target for their skills. Its like this in films, comics and games too.
Or like James Bond when he's being handed out his equipment. Later on he need just exactly the stuff that he got in his pockets anyway.

Not sure if anybody in this world really enjoys these moments or if we all just sigh and move on.


If the story was simply "Shepard leads the charge against a Reaper plot" then no, it's not important if a character has a particular role in the mission.

However, if the story becomes "Shepard assembles a team to foil a Reaper plot" then yes, it's kind of expected that there's a reason for the squadmates to be there. 

The Dirty Dozen, The Seven Samurai, Ocean's Eleven.  Heck even  Major League.  Each person has a part to play on the team.

Think of it as Chekhov's Gun taken to the next level

#752
Iakus

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That's the kind of thing that makes me wonder why people want everyone on the team to have an exact role to fill in the suicide mission and all have a clear and strong connection to the main plot.  Does it strain credibiltiy when you have that many coincidences piled up?


I'd rather have TIM and Shepard have an idea of what kind of team they'd need and specifically go after those people to recruit.  With a preference towards people with an interest in going after the Collectors.

Role + Motivation

#753
Killjoy Cutter

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Miranda and Jacob - assigned my TIM, believe in the mission

Tali - doesn't need more motivation, worked with Shep before

Garrus - doesn't need more motivation, worked with Shep before

Thane - wants to go out making a difference, sees the kidnappped colonists as people who need protecting and the Collectors as an evil to be stopped

Kasumi - "I do what I do for the love of it", she's being paid handsomely, and she outright says that she's a fan of Shepard.

Zaeed - cash, cash, cash, and so psychologically exhausted that he's developing a death wish (read his dossier from LotSB)

Samara - all she talks about is bringing justice to the universe, and this is a big injustice

Legion - has been looking for Shepard for reasons that "it" explains

Grunt - replacement for Okeer, starts out looking for any good fight, then considers Shep his battlemaster after the Rite

Jack - flimsiest motivation other than gratitude, and that doesn't seem like something that would tie her to someone given her past and attitude

Mordin - the Collectors are behind the plague on Omega, and he can't resist a scientific challenge, and he does believe in doing the right thing even if it's not the most pleasant and nice thing


#754
Killjoy Cutter

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iakus wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

I always hated this part of hero-battles. If you have a team of heros with different special abilities, during the big fight all find a convenient target for their skills. Its like this in films, comics and games too.
Or like James Bond when he's being handed out his equipment. Later on he need just exactly the stuff that he got in his pockets anyway.

Not sure if anybody in this world really enjoys these moments or if we all just sigh and move on.


If the story was simply "Shepard leads the charge against a Reaper plot" then no, it's not important if a character has a particular role in the mission.

However, if the story becomes "Shepard assembles a team to foil a Reaper plot" then yes, it's kind of expected that there's a reason for the squadmates to be there. 

The Dirty Dozen, The Seven Samurai, Ocean's Eleven.  Heck even  Major League.  Each person has a part to play on the team.

Think of it as Chekhov's Gun taken to the next level


I loath Chekhov's Gun. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 18 octobre 2010 - 09:24 .


#755
Moiaussi

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iakus wrote...

 I found the concept of justicars very interesting and wished to learn more about them.  But Samara simply deciding to follow Shepard "just because:" is a head-scratcher.  If some sort of "disturbance in the Force" was really involved, it would be nice to let the player know that, and not have to assume that she follows you "because the game says so"

Here's the exact wording:

Shepard:  "How much do you know about our mission?"
Samara: " I know I have sworn an oath to follow you, and that you seek to destroy the Collectors.  That is enough for me"
Shepard: " You don't want to know why the Collectors need to be fought?"
Samara:  "When you live by a code that compels you to harsh action, you learn the dangers of curiosity.  If I must kill a man because he has done wrong, do I really wish to know he is a devoted father?"


But that is after she has sworn the oath. There is also an assumption on your part (or need on your part) that she consciously knows why. Instictive precog is instinctive. If you have an intuition which is usually right, you tend to rely on it, even when you cannot explain why. They may have rationalizations why, but they don't have to know why.

Otherwise the whole concept of Justicars is problematic and it is hard to understand why they would be accepted in Asari society, let alone accepted as being able to validate evidence.

I absolutely know that it's all fictional.  But a good writer makes the character's actions seem natural.  Jack was a dangerous, violent criminal, feared by inmates and guards alike in Purgatory.  Purgatory itself was a prison for the absolute worst in the galaxy, where even the "small timers" had multiple homicides under their belt.  True we don't have independant verification about the violent exploits Jack describes (save perhaps those of the Teltin facility) but she had little reason to lie.  That's more than just having a rep.  Yet once brought on board, Jack has "arguements"  Her attitude gets toned down to merely "edgy" 


Purgatory isn't just a prison for the 'worst.' It is clear from their attempt to capture Shepard that they are also a prison for the 'valuable.' Shepard isn't a wanted criminal at all, and may even still be a Spectre. Jack is dangerous. She is a very powerful biotic who has committed violent crimes. That doesn't mean she is neccessarily psychotic though, nor that she has to be to be 'believable.' You seem to be reading into her and thus expecting something different.

Before being recruited by Shepard, no Thane would have no reason to study the Collectors.  Afterwards, yes, it only makes sense that he'd avail himself of whatever information is known about the Collectors, both in the past and whatever Cerberus has available on the colony disappearances.  He's an assassin, a hunter.  He would have to learn about the prey he'll be stalking.  That's what I was talking about.   Learning the details of  Collector activities after being recruited.


And where would all this information come from? And why wouldn't Shepard already have it? The collectors are presented as a mystrerious race that rarely visit at all. Again, he is an assassin, not a researcher, not an archaeologist, not a historian, and there have to be details to learn, to learn them.

Besides, that has nothing to do with him agreeing to join Shepard in the first place.....

#756
Moiaussi

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iakus wrote...

If the story was simply "Shepard leads the charge against a Reaper plot" then no, it's not important if a character has a particular role in the mission.

However, if the story becomes "Shepard assembles a team to foil a Reaper plot" then yes, it's kind of expected that there's a reason for the squadmates to be there. 

The Dirty Dozen, The Seven Samurai, Ocean's Eleven.  Heck even  Major League.  Each person has a part to play on the team.

Think of it as Chekhov's Gun taken to the next level


This is a blind raid though. They don't know in advance what they will be up against. Why would the prediction of what would be needed be perfect?

#757
Iakus

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Moiaussi wrote...

But that is after she has sworn the oath. There is also an assumption on your part (or need on your part) that she consciously knows why. Instictive precog is instinctive. If you have an intuition which is usually right, you tend to rely on it, even when you cannot explain why. They may have rationalizations why, but they don't have to know why.

Otherwise the whole concept of Justicars is problematic and it is hard to understand why they would be accepted in Asari society, let alone accepted as being able to validate evidence.


Ah, but while some asari may have precognitive abilities, I do not.  Therefore, I need to see the closeup of the eyes, the italisized words, or half Peter Parker's face to turn into a Spider-Man mask to know it's working.  Otherwise I just see a justicar swearing an oath to follow some random human.

Don't get me wrong, that may in fact be the case. I find the idea of justicars to be an interesting bundle of contradictions that I would like to see expanded upon.  And that conversation right there could have been an opportunity to expand on that.



Purgatory isn't just a prison for the 'worst.' It is clear from their attempt to capture Shepard that they are also a prison for the 'valuable.' Shepard isn't a wanted criminal at all, and may even still be a Spectre. Jack is dangerous. She is a very powerful biotic who has committed violent crimes. That doesn't mean she is neccessarily psychotic though, nor that she has to be to be 'believable.' You seem to be reading into her and thus expecting something different.


Given her history, I expected her experiences including the stuff she was subjected to in Teltin (the drugs and shocks during the arena fights) to seriously mess her up, likely to the point where she'd be useless on a team.  But maybe that's just her story being way over the top dark.

And where would all this information come from? And why wouldn't Shepard already have it? The collectors are presented as a mystrerious race that rarely visit at all. Again, he is an assassin, not a researcher, not an archaeologist, not a historian, and there have to be details to learn, to learn them.


Why indeed wouldn't Shepard have it?  TIM apparantly had enough to suspect the Collectors even before Freedom's Progress.  Now we're getting into another problem I have with the game:   Why doesn't Shepard to anything to learn about the enemy?

And I'd expect a good assassin to also be a very good researcher.  But that could be too many mysteries and political thrillers talking.

Modifié par iakus, 18 octobre 2010 - 10:59 .


#758
Moiaussi

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iakus wrote...

Ah, but while some asari may have precognitive abilities, I do not.  Therefore, I need to see the closeup of the eyes, the italisized words, or half Peter Parker's face to turn into a Spider-Man mask to know it's working.  Otherwise I just see a justicar swearing an oath to follow some random human.

Don't get me wrong, that may in fact be the case. I find the idea of justicars to be an interesting bundle of contradictions that I would like to see expanded upon.  And that conversation right there could have been an opportunity to expand on that.


Bet you hated the original star wars trilogy since the force wasn't really explained either...

Given her history, I expected her experiences including the stuff she was subjected to in Teltin (the drugs and shocks during the arena fights) to seriously mess her up, likely to the point where she'd be useless on a team.  But maybe that's just her story being way over the top dark.


So you think it would be a better story to recruit a completely useless basket case rather than someone who has been through that and is finding the strength to rise above it?

Why indeed wouldn't Shepard have it?  TIM apparantly had enough to suspect the Collectors even before Freedom's Progress.  Now we're getting into another problem I have with the game:   Why doesn't Shepard to anything to learn about the enemy?

And I'd expect a good assassin to also be a very good researcher.  But that could be too many mysteries and political thrillers talking.


Shepard wouldn't have it because there isn't any public repository of such information and because TIM treats Shepard like a trained puppy (no clue why Shepard is so willing to go along with that... ), but that is a separate problem. Basic research regarding archetecture, security systems, yes I would expect an assassin to be up on that, but alien isolationist cultures? Not so much.

#759
Iakus

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Moiaussi wrote...

Bet you hated the original star wars trilogy since the force wasn't really explained either...


"These aren't the droids you're looking for"  ::handwave::

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"  ::fistclench::

Even subtle clues are fine

So you think it would be a better story to recruit a completely useless basket case rather than someone who has been through that and is finding the strength to rise above it?


Rising above adversity is a great story.  I just think this particular story would have been more believable if they dialed it down to an 11. Maybe if Jack was another BAaT kid (or something similar) who didn't handle it as well as Kaiden...

Shepard wouldn't have it because there isn't any public repository of such information and because TIM treats Shepard like a trained puppy (no clue why Shepard is so willing to go along with that... ), but that is a separate problem. Basic research regarding archetecture, security systems, yes I would expect an assassin to be up on that, but alien isolationist cultures? Not so much.


I agree that Cerberus should have a dossier about the Collectors made available to Shepard and crew.  Or even better, have missions where Shepard learns this stuff on his/her own.  I also think THane (and others) should react the the information in these records.  Even if they comment that there isn't much.  I mean potentially valuable information for an assassin could include:

Physical descriptions and capabilities
physical limitations.  preferred enviroments and restricions
preferred weapons and armor
Known tech used
Known biotic abilities, if any
Odd habits or mannerisms
interests, possible distraction oportunities
estimates on their sensory capabilities

No a lot of these are probably not known.  But it would only make sense to try and learn what they are, even if they are only estimates.  Thane is a professional killer.  It only makes sense to find out what you can to make that job easier.  Heck, this applies to almost all of Shepard's squad.  Everyone is oddly incurious about the COllectors.

Modifié par iakus, 19 octobre 2010 - 03:08 .


#760
Moiaussi

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iakus wrote...

"These aren't the droids you're looking for"  ::handwave::

"I find your lack of faith disturbing"  ::fistclench::

Even subtle clues are fine


Because everyone knows you need to wiggle your fingers to use mind based powers... floppy hat magic....

Rising above adversity is a great story.  I just think this particular story would have been more believable if they dialed it down to an 11. Maybe if Jack was another BAaT kid (or something similar) who didn't handle it as well as Kaiden...


She had been 'out and about' for quite some time between the original facility and the prison ship though. She wasn't all violent psychopath the entire time. She joined a cult to finda family. She didn't give up after they betrayed her either. Adversity affects different people differently. And keep in mind the point of the facility was to strengthen her *without* breaking her.

I agree that Cerberus should have a dossier about the Collectors made available to Shepard and crew.  Or even better, have missions where Shepard learns this stuff on his/her own.  I also think THane (and others) should react the the information in these records.  Even if they comment that there isn't much.  I mean potentially valuable information for an assassin could include:

Physical descriptions and capabilities
physical limitations.  preferred enviroments and restricions
preferred weapons and armor
Known tech used
Known biotic abilities, if any
Odd habits or mannerisms
interests, possible distraction oportunities
estimates on their sensory capabilities

No a lot of these are probably not known.  But it would only make sense to try and learn what they are, even if they are only estimates.  Thane is a professional killer.  It only makes sense to find out what you can to make that job easier.  Heck, this applies to almost all of Shepard's squad.  Everyone is oddly incurious about the COllectors.


And how would he 'learn what they are?' Any collector installation already gets hit by the team. The collector ship there was no time for sightseeing and the derelect reaper even less. By the time of the collector's base, even less.

What is really nuts is that Shepard should be able to translate the collectors communications and/or read instrumentation/equipement labels, since he knows prothean (from ME1), but that isn't seen at all in ME2.

#761
Iakus

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Moiaussi wrote...

Because everyone knows you need to wiggle your fingers to use mind based powers... floppy hat magic....


And yet, I don't hate the old Star Wars movies Image IPB

She had been 'out and about' for quite some time between the original facility and the prison ship though. She wasn't all violent psychopath the entire time. She joined a cult to finda family. She didn't give up after they betrayed her either. Adversity affects different people differently. And keep in mind the point of the facility was to strengthen her *without* breaking her.


And yet it's the anger and violence that gets played up.  The cult gets barely a mention compared to the rest of her life.  The focus is her life as a pirate, her time in Teltin, her times in gangs where it seems everyone ended up betraying her.  I mean, I'd drop her off at Omega and say "have a nice life" but I respect Aria too much.

One of the seemingly minor things about LotSB, but really struck me, was the SB dossier on Jack.  That's the stuff her character could have really used.  Her attempts to channel her rage into something a bit less destructive (poetry) and her first, tentative (and not very successful) steps towards acttually interacting with the outside world (amusingly, online poker and news forums).  If they wanted to humanize Jack and show she's not just" violence in a bottle", those are the kind of touches I needed to see.


And how would he 'learn what they are?' Any collector installation already gets hit by the team. The collector ship there was no time for sightseeing and the derelect reaper even less. By the time of the collector's base, even less.

What is really nuts is that Shepard should be able to translate the collectors communications and/or read instrumentation/equipement labels, since he knows prothean (from ME1), but that isn't seen at all in ME2.


Indeed.  This is a weakness in the game in general.  There's no investigation.  Not where Shepard (and thus the player) can participate.  More should have been made of the Cipher and teh Prothean connection.  There's a bunch of warriors on the Normandy in serious need of "knowing thy enemy"

#762
Nightwriter

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Jebel Krong wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Moiaussi, you can, like, be really confusing.

Whatever side path we splintered off on, the core of it is this: the characters needed better reasons for being there.

Either better connections to the Reapers, better explanations for why their skills were needed, more info from TIM about why he picked them, or just something that made them not totally random characters who all happened to have reasons why jumping aboard the space ship of a random passerby suited them.


actually no. more connections to the reapers would have reduced the universe. their skills are self-evident and cover a lot of different scenarios for what was likely on the other side of the Omega IV relay.


OH FOR CHRIST'S - Grr - asl;knasdf;hjasdf - asina;slfasdfasdf!!!!!

*has toddler tantrum*

Image IPB

The story and character connections were empty! EMPTY! Void! Barren! A desert wasteland which I combed over desperately like a starving woman lost in the Sahara, searching for one last drop of moisture she could squeeze from the barren soil!

And then when I try to suggest the strategic placement of cactuses which may provide some worthwhile liquid, people must go "Oh no, that's too convenient!"

I mean it's like saying the Liara-Benezia connection or the Wrex-Virmire genophage connection would have "reduced the universe"!

I am NOT crazy! I - I'm not! I have paid people to tell me this!

#763
Iakus

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Nightwriter wrote...

The story and character connections were empty! EMPTY! Void! Barren! A desert wasteland which I combed over desperately like a starving woman lost in the Sahara, searching for one last drop of moisture she could squeeze from the barren soil!

And then when I try to suggest the strategic placement of cactuses which may provide some worthwhile liquid, people must go "Oh no, that's too convenient!"

I mean it's like saying the Liara-Benezia connection or the Wrex-Virmire genophage connection would have "reduced the universe"!

I am NOT crazy! I - I'm not! I have paid people to tell me this!


This.
Minus the tantrum.  Image IPB

#764
Moiaussi

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Nightwriter wrote...

The story and character connections were empty! EMPTY! Void! Barren! A desert wasteland which I combed over desperately like a starving woman lost in the Sahara, searching for one last drop of moisture she could squeeze from the barren soil!

And then when I try to suggest the strategic placement of cactuses which may provide some worthwhile liquid, people must go "Oh no, that's too convenient!"

I mean it's like saying the Liara-Benezia connection or the Wrex-Virmire genophage connection would have "reduced the universe"!

I am NOT crazy! I - I'm not! I have paid people to tell me this!


But is that because this time you are recruiting a team instead of picking up strays with a common enemy?  Isn't that like saying that a WWII movie is lousy unless the main characters all have reasons to hate the Germans above and beyond their country(s) being at war?

I agree completely that the main plot was weak, but recruiting a team that is portrayed as 'the best' and having them all conveniently have ties to the target enemy in addition seems, well, hokey. There seemed more investigating of everything but the reapers and/or collectors. Every collector related venue needed to be blown up or left immediately. Even if they keep the base, Shepard doesn't get to explore it and instead seemingly just hands it over to TIM without even looking at it.

That has nothing to do with how related individual characters are to the mission, or not, though.

#765
Jebel Krong

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Nightwriter wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Moiaussi, you can, like, be really confusing.

Whatever side path we splintered off on, the core of it is this: the characters needed better reasons for being there.

Either better connections to the Reapers, better explanations for why their skills were needed, more info from TIM about why he picked them, or just something that made them not totally random characters who all happened to have reasons why jumping aboard the space ship of a random passerby suited them.


actually no. more connections to the reapers would have reduced the universe. their skills are self-evident and cover a lot of different scenarios for what was likely on the other side of the Omega IV relay.


OH FOR CHRIST'S - Grr - asl;knasdf;hjasdf - asina;slfasdfasdf!!!!!

*has toddler tantrum*

Image IPB

The story and character connections were empty! EMPTY! Void! Barren! A desert wasteland which I combed over desperately like a starving woman lost in the Sahara, searching for one last drop of moisture she could squeeze from the barren soil!

And then when I try to suggest the strategic placement of cactuses which may provide some worthwhile liquid, people must go "Oh no, that's too convenient!"

I mean it's like saying the Liara-Benezia connection or the Wrex-Virmire genophage connection would have "reduced the universe"!

I am NOT crazy! I - I'm not! I have paid people to tell me this!


you are crazy and not everything has to link to the goddamn reapers or their me2 substitutes: the collectors. given that people spend so much time whining about perceived lack of "depth" in me2, then you all want to go and add cliche been-there-seen-it plot connections to everything and everyone. seriously me2 can't catch a break. <_<

#766
Nightwriter

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Nightwriter: I wanted a plot.

People: YOU ASK TOO MUCH.

#767
Jebel Krong

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no, it had a plot, just not the one you wanted. thankfully the game wasn't made for just you, or even me.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:06 .


#768
Lumikki

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People don't waste you time as trying to change someones opinion, because it will NEVER change. If you think you need to counter argument someone, because what they say is not true, don't bother, developers will see trough the bitter arguments what aren't true. Developers aren't dumm.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:46 .


#769
Nightwriter

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Jebel Krong wrote...

no, it had a plot, just not the one you wanted. thankfully the game wasn't made for just you, or even me.


Why so bleak, man?

It's sad, but people who were unsatisfied with certain aspects of ME2 have to defend their dissatisfaction so much that it comes across like they didn't like anything about the game, which really isn't true at all.

I think I could go on forever about all the things I liked about the game, and I really admired its storytelling ability and the individual situations it presented me with. It doesn't get talked about cuz this is a disappointment thread.

Unfortunately, if you complain or criticize, you're likely to be labeled a hater, meaning you have to defend the fact that your complaints are legitimate points that you bring up because you really care about the game. But no matter how much you say it, there will always be some people who just won't listen, standard.

#770
Gibb_Shepard

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Jebel Krong wrote...

no, it had a plot, just not the one you wanted. thankfully the game wasn't made for just you, or even me.


It barely had a plot. The plot was weak at best, it was all about the characters, who's issues had nothing at all to do with the overall plot. If ME3 brings back at least most of your squadmates in important roles, then i will see the reason why ME2 did what it did, to recruit a team to combat the reapers; but if ME3 scraps all the ME2 squaddies to little VS roles, and makes you recruit brand new squaddies, then ME2 will have felt like a giant waste of time, since it didn't advance the story, at all.

#771
Jebel Krong

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Nightwriter wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

no, it had a plot, just not the one you wanted. thankfully the game wasn't made for just you, or even me.


Why so bleak, man?

It's sad, but people who were unsatisfied with certain aspects of ME2 have to defend their dissatisfaction so much that it comes across like they didn't like anything about the game, which really isn't true at all.

I think I could go on forever about all the things I liked about the game, and I really admired its storytelling ability and the individual situations it presented me with. It doesn't get talked about cuz this is a disappointment thread.

Unfortunately, if you complain or criticize, you're likely to be labeled a hater, meaning you have to defend the fact that your complaints are legitimate points that you bring up because you really care about the game. But no matter how much you say it, there will always be some people who just won't listen, standard.


yeah but there's your attitude, then there's this particular brand of lunacy:

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It barely had a plot. The plot was weak at best, it was all about the characters, who's issues had nothing at all to do with the overall plot. If ME3 brings back at least most of your squadmates in important roles, then i will see the reason why ME2 did what it did, to recruit a team to combat the reapers; but if ME3 scraps all the ME2 squaddies to little VS roles, and makes you recruit brand new squaddies, then ME2 will have felt like a giant waste of time, since it didn't advance the story, at all.


the first sentence doesn't even make sense, and you contradict yourself within it... :pinched:

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 19 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .


#772
Nightwriter

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Well Gibb may be a little blunt, but I'm sure there is still some like for the game there.

And I think "the plot was barely there" and "it had a weak plot" are supposed to be the same thing.

While I was disappointed with the plot, I don't think game 2 will have been a waste of time because it had moments that I enjoyed purely in and of themselves, it told some great stories. Yeah, it wasn't really the stories I wanted, but what I got was good. But it was good like a nice off topic discussion. One of those brilliant ones that you really enjoy. But in the end the thread still gets locked because it has nothing to do with the topic and therefore doesn't matter.

:( 

#773
Jebel Krong

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well in all fairness we not be able to appreciate what me2 sets up till me3 arrives. i never said that me2 was perfect - it's far from, it, it's just closer in so many more ways than me1 is. the way the collector story unfolded was good, but the reaper was crap and made no sense, and it's appearance even moreso. however, taking the idea of building the team by recruiting all the different individuals and then having all their loyalty missions in addition to the main was absolute gold, imo, and not having them all connected to the main story helped further expand and establish the universe, with even more diverse locations, which had only been spoken of before. as long as the pattern isn't repeated again for me3 (i.e. please don't use the template AGAIN bioware), we should be able to take everything from me2 into me3 and really drive the main story to it's cnclusion, with plenty of material left to explore for new characters/gestating sidequests and, most importantly, our current squaddies and LIs.

#774
morrie23

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I see ME2 almost like a TV season, lots of standalone episodes that are barely connected together. There are a few episodes mixed in to remained you that there is an overarcing story but they are too spread out and often not very good.



If the core plot of ME2 was better and took more of the game I'd be more forgiving of disjointed feeling I get from the stream of recruitment/loyalty mission (some of which are great). Shamus Young at Twenty Sided wrote a good plot analyis a while back, I agree with much of it (link).

Also, a pictorial representation the structure of ME2 from Shamus:

Image IPB

#775
Frybread76

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Moiaussi wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The story and character connections were empty! EMPTY! Void! Barren! A desert wasteland which I combed over desperately like a starving woman lost in the Sahara, searching for one last drop of moisture she could squeeze from the barren soil!

And then when I try to suggest the strategic placement of cactuses which may provide some worthwhile liquid, people must go "Oh no, that's too convenient!"

I mean it's like saying the Liara-Benezia connection or the Wrex-Virmire genophage connection would have "reduced the universe"!

I am NOT crazy! I - I'm not! I have paid people to tell me this!


But is that because this time you are recruiting a team instead of picking up strays with a common enemy?  Isn't that like saying that a WWII movie is lousy unless the main characters all have reasons to hate the Germans above and beyond their country(s) being at war?

I agree completely that the main plot was weak, but recruiting a team that is portrayed as 'the best' and having them all conveniently have ties to the target enemy in addition seems, well, hokey. There seemed more investigating of everything but the reapers and/or collectors. Every collector related venue needed to be blown up or left immediately. Even if they keep the base, Shepard doesn't get to explore it and instead seemingly just hands it over to TIM without even looking at it.

That has nothing to do with how related individual characters are to the mission, or not, though.


But if this was a WWII movies Shepard's team would have been made up on soldiers whose job it would be to serve under their commander and fight their enemy.  The squad mates in ME2 don't have that obligation because they aren't military and they aren't Cerberus.  Several of them are friends of Shepard's, several can be love interests, one has a man-crush (or woman-crush?) on Shepard, some are mercs who were paid to accompany Shepard and one is a Jedi who pretty much abandons her 400-year-old search for a vampire who has murdered across the galaxy to fight the Collectors.

We can say that some of them would still have served Shepard because of the threat posed by the Collectors.  However, the Collectors were only targeting human colonies in the Terminus Systems at the time of ME2.