1700 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

Nightwriter wrote...

I didn't care for that much. It was so random. You know that if someone had come along two seconds before you with a similar cause they'd just as soon have hopped on that train instead. Doesn't really matter to them. 

See my statement in my post to Fry about RL reasons for 'signing up.' They really are often that arbitrary. Shepard isn't 'just anybody' either. Many of these people would have reason to trust him by reputation. The Council may 'dismiss his claims' but his concerns regarding the Geth, and the Council's relative inaction are matters of record. Per SB's dossiers, at least a couple of the squaddies were watching documentaries on the subject.

That is in addition to Shepard's leadership skills.

[Iakus]

Moiaussi wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

But if this was a WWII movies Shepard's team would have been made up on soldiers whose job it would be to serve under their commander and fight their enemy.  The squad mates in ME2 don't have that obligation because they aren't military and they aren't Cerberus.  Several of them are friends of Shepard's, several can be love interests, one has a man-crush (or woman-crush?) on Shepard, some are mercs who were paid to accompany Shepard and one is a Jedi who pretty much abandons her 400-year-old search for a vampire who has murdered across the galaxy to fight the Collectors.

We can say that some of them would still have served Shepard because of the threat posed by the Collectors.  However, the Collectors were only targeting human colonies in the Terminus Systems at the time of ME2.

In a lot of WWII movies, the squad members 'aren't military' either, not yet, especially if the movie starts in boot camp. They are merely a bunch of people who either signed up to 'fight them Germans' or were drafted. Those who are drafted don't want to be there, and don't have any reason to be there other than that they are ordered to be. Even those who chose to be there are usually not porfessional soldiers.

This is even more so in a Vietnam movie.

The point is that they don't have any more reason to be there other than 'collectors are killing colonies' aka 'commies are taking over the world' (vietnam) aka 'germans are taking over the world' (WWI or WWII) or similar for other wars. There doesn't have to be any deeper reason. In fact, if they all had ties to the enemy other than the reasons for war, the movies would come across as very unnatural. Note that WWI and Vietnam had no direct threats to the US (unless you count a threat to US trade and shipping with Britain 'a direct threat to the US' at a time Britain was already at war with Germany).

I think the big, central problem isn't that a connection with the Collectors is needed, it's that the squad needs something to connect them.  The Collectors is simply the handiest thing to use.  The whole point of the game is "build a team to stop the Collectors"  Okay, what team?

Imagine describing the story to someone intersted in pursuing the reaper threat left dangling at the end of ME1:


Q: So, the Collectors are the latest threat?  I gotta go learn about them, what their connectionis to the Reapers, right?  Find out what their plan is, their strengths, their weaknesses? plan out the mission, right?
 
A:  Nope, The Illusive Man will handle that.  Your job is to build the team.
 
Q: Okay, cool.  I have to go through the potential members and select the ones that work best together.  Convince them that this is a threat to everyone.  Maybe my paragon/renegade scores or past actions will make them more or less willng to work with me.
 
A:  Actually, you're given the dossiers on the available squad members by TIM.  You don't actually get a whole lot of choices in who you are recruiting.  You just recruit them and earn their loyalty. 
 
Q:  Earn their loyalty?  I can work with that.  Get a bunch of individuals to work together as a team.  Train them to fight as a unit.  Walk a delicate tightrope amongst a dozen disparate personalities.  Real "Band of Brothers" stuff.  I need to get them to trust me to lead them into battle, and to trust each other to have their backs, right?
 
A:  Well, there are two arguments you have to break up...
 
Q:  So they do talk to each other, then?  Banter?  Argue?  Play their personalities off each other?
A:  Well...
 
Q:  They act differently once I have their loyalty, right?
A:  Umm... Hey, look! DLC guns!  ::hides:: 

"Build a team" is not a standard rpg story.  But it could have worked.  The problem is, even as the "main story" it basically just gets the "side quest" treatment.  It doesn't feel like teambuilding.  It feels like playing the latest DLC pack (except the latest DLC was leaps and bounds better)

Modifié par iakus, 19 octobre 2010 - 08:03 .

[Moiaussi]

See, that I can agree with for the most part. If the recruitment was done for you and you were just handed most of the team though there could have been a lot more room for that kind of team building.



By the way, something else has been bothering me... why is it ok to have the tech specialist die? I don't mean from a moral point of view, I mean.... if it isn;t neccessary they survive, is it really a 'role?' Why send someone crawling through the pipes in the first place?

[FireEye]

Moiaussi wrote...

Pretty much. Frankly I would have preferred that you start with wrap ups for any ME1 characters departing (Wrex going back to his homeworld was very believable given his ME1 background, and the VS could have been simply reassigned ala various Star Trek characters, Garrus could have made Spectre and given new duties, etc), followed by introductions to to a new unit hand selected by either the Spectre commander (newly appointed? Perhaps Anderson as an apology now that they have more reason to believe he really was set up by Saren?) or by Hackett, or perhaps even by the Council.

Then loyalty missions could involve incidents over the course of investigating the collectors with more room for the collectors to be feel more important and/or learn more about them. There could still have been strays added to the unit (such as Grunt), but that could have been investigating Okeer's links to the Collectors rather than recruiting Okeer. Speaking of which, Okeer did have links to the collectors, but that whole point was sort of treated as irrelevent by the plot, like the writers actually were going somewhere interesting, then forgot they were doing so in favour of 'OOOH, they'll like a Krogan!'

Why ditch the original team in the first place?

Why not have Wrex leave to unite the krogan (since he could die) and the Virmire Casualty remain dead, have the Virmire Survivor, Garrus, Tali, and Liara still with you from the start... add four more characters as the story goes on and possibly side missions for all your characters... add four more characters come ME3, and we have the 12 count we currently have?

Why strip them out and then overload the character cart all at once?

[Frybread76]

Moiaussi wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

In just about any WWII movie I've seen the movies were about the squad mates of a U.S. military unit, which is why I found your comment confusing.

And even those who are drafted are not in very similar situations to Shepard's crew, since draftees are forced to fight.  They have no choice.  They are soldiers serving under a commander because they were drafted, that is their reason.

Shepard's crew mates don't have a reason other than the Collectors are targeting human colonies, which doesn't affect any of the aliens except for Samara because she's a Jedi.  The other aliens stick with Shepard for their own flimsy personal reasons or they are his friends from ME1.

And, IMO, Jack wouldn't stick around if she was true to her character.

Draftees are forced to fight, but not to fight well, and not everyone accepted the draft in the first place. Some hid and/or fled to other countries that didn't have the draft. Jack is arguably drafted. Its not like Shepard shot up a base then was likely to simply let her walk (especially if paragon). So is Zaheed on the paragon side of his loyalty mission.

Samara is already paramilitary and considers the collector threat within Justicar jurisdiction. Thane is likewise paramilitary and signs up for similar idealistic reasons. "Gonna go fight some collectors' isn't that different really than 'gonna go fight Germans' or 'gonna go fight commies.' You are forgetting the fact that the soldiers in those movies were not soldiers just before the start of the movie (sometimes even not soldiers at the start of the movie).

Reasons for RL people joining the military are often just as flimsy 'impress my girl', 'woohoo get to shoot stuff', 'save the world, rah rah', etc etc etc... they don't need any deep ties to the war, there is simply a war and they want to go.

Jack is as free to go as any draftee, and as free to go as any of the convicts in The Dirty Dozen. She doesn't because (1) she might get shot, and (2) because Shepard is actually a good leader  and depending on the shepard, the first person to ever show a legitimate concern for her as something other than a weapon (a theme borrowed from other sci-fi, especially anime).

True, draftees can refuse the summons or they can go AWOL, which is what Jack would have done if she was true to character (a crazy murderer out for herself who, once she got the data she needed, would have been gone on the first shore leave).

Thane and Samara are "likely paramilitary"?  Where do you get that?  Neither ever mentioned being trained as part of a paramilitary organization (Samar was a merc, so MAYBE she was paramilitary), and Thane never served as part of a unit or some such group.  Samara is a Jedi and Thane is a lone wolf assassin.

And lastly, people who join the military (or peace corps, or anything that requires a great commitment) for flimsy reasons do not last long, IME.  They either quit or are fired or relieved of duty.

Modifié par Frybread76, 19 octobre 2010 - 09:50 .

[crooked]

I loved both games. But ME1 is the superior game in my opinion. I've been playing Bioware games since I was young. They have always made the best rpg games that drew you into an open and vivid story-driven world. To me, ME2 lacked some of those elements. The reasons why ME1 was the better game can be described with 3 key differences between both games:

1) Less rpg-like customization and specific gameplay with different characters in ME2 made it feel more generic.

2) In ME2 you no longer had the possibility of open world exploration, every bit of action or mystery felt directed. You didn't have to find anything, you were always being pointed in the "right" direction. I agree that exploring with the mako could become tedious, but bumping into a pirate's hideout or a tresher maw or recieving a fifth fleet assignement when entering a system made the world feel more open and vivid. Combine this with the CoD (slight exaggeration ) style action and you get a whole different feel to it.

3) The major part of the story was getting your team together and doing loyality missions, it felt like I was just doing a checklist instead of engulfing myself in a story. I did however enjoy the rest of the main story.

In short, ME1 continued the great tradition of Bioware games that made me want to buy every single game just to support the brilliant minds at work. ME2 took a different path, while still being a great game, it didn't have the same impact on me as ME1. If ME3 is more like ME2 than like ME1, I might still get it, but just for the story. Curveballing powers and a better hide-mechanism were great improvements to the game though. I could name more, but this is a dissapointment thread .

I usually don't browse this forum, but I just finished another playthrough and one extra comment might just bring some of that brilliance of ME1 to ME3.

(I also didn't like the removal of unlimited ammo, made it feel even more like a simple, confined shooter - Jacob needs to stay away from ME - the Illusive man/martin sheen was REALLY impressive! -MUSIC, the use of music was way better in ME1 - I loved the occasional motivational speech in ME1 )

Modifié par crooked, 19 octobre 2010 - 11:08 .

[Moiaussi]

Frybread76 wrote...

True, draftees can refuse the summons or they can go AWOL, which is what Jack would have done if she was true to character (a crazy murderer out for herself who, once she got the data she needed, would have been gone on the first shore leave).

Thane and Samara are "likely paramilitary"?  Where do you get that?  Neither ever mentioned being trained as part of a paramilitary organization (Samar was a merc, so MAYBE she was paramilitary), and Thane never served as part of a unit or some such group.  Samara is a Jedi and Thane is a lone wolf assassin.

And lastly, people who join the military (or peace corps, or anything that requires a great commitment) for flimsy reasons do not last long, IME.  They either quit or are fired or relieved of duty.

See, that is you reading into Jack and projecting what you want her to be. She isn't a 'crazy murderer.' You don't need to be a crazy murderer to be locked up in a facility like that, and a total psychotic would make a lousy squad member anyway. Reputation does not always equal reality, nor does presentation.

Thane and Samara are paramilitary in that both have 'military' roles. Operating solo does nor preclude an ordered 'military' style. Samara has her code and Thane has his service to the Hanar.

As for how long people who join the military with flimsy reasons last, I take it you don't know anyone who actually served in either world war... not sure if you have even listened to documentaries that include any interviews. At any rate, you seem to think that boot camp and good leadership have zero effect on soldiers. How well educated do you think people were about Germany during WWI or WWII? How many who volunteered for duty in Vietnam really knew anything meaningful about communism, let alone Vietnamese history? How many who volunteered for pretty much any war ever fought really knew much about the issues and reasons behind the war? Note I am not questioning war.....it is sometimes absolutely neccessary (WWII, stopping Germany and Japan is a particularly good example), but as far as going to fight on foreign soil, how many who volunteer really have good reasons other than trusting those who say they should?

[freeeekshow]

can someone please explain to me, why @ the end of ME2, they tried to create a reaper using humans, and embody him after a human, but then all of the other reapers look the same? They claimed that they embody one after every race, but then they are all the same looking? If someone could answer this for me or point me in the right direction itd be great... this always bugged me about ME2

[crooked]

freeeekshow wrote...

can someone please explain to me, why @ the end of ME2, they tried to create a reaper using humans, and embody him after a human, but then all of the other reapers look the same? They claimed that they embody one after every race, but then they are all the same looking? If someone could answer this for me or point me in the right direction itd be great... this always bugged me about ME2

This didn't seem irrational to me.  In the reapers minds all organic life is worthless. But humans have been a resilient opponent and one even "bested" a reaper (though not really toe to toe). So perhaps they figured a human reaper would have all the perks of a reaper combined with whatever characteristic that made them suffer their first small setback/defeat in ages.

[freeeekshow]

crooked wrote...

freeeekshow wrote...

can someone please explain to me, why @ the end of ME2, they tried to create a reaper using humans, and embody him after a human, but then all of the other reapers look the same? They claimed that they embody one after every race, but then they are all the same looking? If someone could answer this for me or point me in the right direction itd be great... this always bugged me about ME2

This didn't seem irrational to me.  In the reapers minds all organic life is worthless. But humans have been a resilient opponent and one even "bested" a reaper (though not really toe to toe). So perhaps they figured a human reaper would have all the perks of a reaper combined with whatever characteristic that made them suffer their first small setback/defeat in ages.

yes thats a good point, but i believe that they specifically stated they create all of the reapers modeled after the species they destroy. (hopefully i worded that so it makes sense.) so there would be a prothean reaper, possibly a rachni reaper, and all of the other prior species' reapers.

or am i wrong? i might be wrong, i havent played the game in months (college now  ) but im pretty sure i am correct.

[Iakus]

freeeekshow wrote...

yes thats a good point, but i believe that they specifically stated they create all of the reapers modeled after the species they destroy. (hopefully i worded that so it makes sense.) so there would be a prothean reaper, possibly a rachni reaper, and all of the other prior species' reapers.

or am i wrong? i might be wrong, i havent played the game in months (college now  ) but im pretty sure i am correct.

All the talk of Reaper reproduction, and why the Termireaper looked human came from EDI.  It was entirely speculation on her part.  But then, she's been right about everything else in the game, so there's no real reason to doubt her.

Part of her speculation was that there was no Prothean Reaper.  That they were missing some quality the Reapers needed, thus they got repurposed into the Collectors.

The rachni were never culled by the Reapers.  It is believed/strongly hinted that Sovereign indoctrinated them to go to war with the Council and gain access to the Citadel, like he later did with the geth.  Otherwise, yes, if EDI is correct, there is likely at least one Reaper for every culling.

Now comes the question of why go the sillly route of making the Reaper look like the species the smoothie came from.  It just seems unnecessary.  I mean, the humans form:  Bipedal, opposable thumbs, bilaterally symetrical. etc, etc.  Great form for a terrestrial world.  Depths of space, not so much.

[Terror_K]

I think that's only if they passed the test. If they didn't, they were simply either wiped out or used and/or altered to serve the Reapers in some way. I believe The Protheans were the last attempt, but didn't meet the Reapers' standards. Humans did, probably due to Shepard more than anything else. My theory is that Reapers can't evolve naturally, so do so by purposefully setting up the galaxy over and over to try and find the perfect evolution through organic evolution, then simply adopt and adapt to that themselves, then start the cycle again to get even closer to perfection.



Re: ME2 breaking the formula a little and it being a good or bad thing, in some ways it was a good thing, but also came down to execution as much as it did premise. I personally liked that it broke the standard "starter area, then four main world and final place" BioWare formula by having more places that were generally smaller, but the manner in which it was done was the problem. The areas being smaller made them feel smaller and thus less epic and grand in scale. ME2 felt small for the most part compared to ME1. Not having vehicle sections probably didn't help, whereas ME1 managed to make its main places feel huge by adding these. Even The Citadel was smaller in ME2. This also led to the places feeling less real and alive, and more like small, linear levels that were overdesigned and cramped. The fact you've got five major ME1-related NPCs (i.e. Liara, Shiala, Conrad Verner, Gianna Parasini, Rachni Messenger) that are otherwise unconnected in Illium all within about 200 metres of each other makes the universe feel small, not large. It wasn't until the car chase in LotSB that Nos Astra felt like the large city it was purported to be.



Then there's the fact that not only were more than half of the missions about squaddies and their issues more than the central theme of The Reapers, but on top of that the entire game is so far removed from the first one plot-wise that it doesn't even come across as the second part of a trilogy at all but simply more of another part of one single characters' exploits. Things that seemed important in the first part are glossed over, pushed aside and made to seem insignificant, and when they're not they come across as hastily and poorly executed, particularly when you see both versions of it with different imports. Kaidan and Ashley's characters, for example, just feel totally wasted and even spit on, with each pretty much being a lame substitution for the other. The Council decision barely seemed to change the universe at all outside of who appears when you visit Anderson and how a few shopkeepers on The Citadel treat you, and being a Spectre --on of the most defining, epic and important aspects of the first game-- seems about as poignant and monumental as getting a scout badge for "attendance" now.



Basically, the concept was kind of sound in a sense, and it's nice to break the formula... but the way they went about it was severely lacking and questionable. The writing was mostly good for what was there, but much of the basic premise was pretty unspectacular and lacking in depth.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It barely had a plot. The plot was weak at best, it was all about the characters, who's issues had nothing at all to do with the overall plot. If ME3 brings back at least most of your squadmates in important roles, then i will see the reason why ME2 did what it did, to recruit a team to combat the reapers; but if ME3 scraps all the ME2 squaddies to little VS roles, and makes you recruit brand new squaddies, then ME2 will have felt like a giant waste of time, since it didn't advance the story, at all.

the first sentence doesn't even make sense, and you contradict yourself within it... 

Do you know what the word contradict means? I don't think you do, as nothing at all in that comment was contradictory. Okay, here it is in laymens terms for you.

MASS EFFECT 2 had a W-E-A-K P-L-O-T.

[freeeekshow]

iakus wrote...

freeeekshow wrote...

yes thats a good point, but i believe that they specifically stated they create all of the reapers modeled after the species they destroy. (hopefully i worded that so it makes sense.) so there would be a prothean reaper, possibly a rachni reaper, and all of the other prior species' reapers.

or am i wrong? i might be wrong, i havent played the game in months (college now  ) but im pretty sure i am correct.

All the talk of Reaper reproduction, and why the Termireaper looked human came from EDI.  It was entirely speculation on her part.  But then, she's been right about everything else in the game, so there's no real reason to doubt her.

Part of her speculation was that there was no Prothean Reaper.  That they were missing some quality the Reapers needed, thus they got repurposed into the Collectors.

The rachni were never culled by the Reapers.  It is believed/strongly hinted that Sovereign indoctrinated them to go to war with the Council and gain access to the Citadel, like he later did with the geth.  Otherwise, yes, if EDI is correct, there is likely at least one Reaper for every culling.

Now comes the question of why go the sillly route of making the Reaper look like the species the smoothie came from.  It just seems unnecessary.  I mean, the humans form:  Bipedal, opposable thumbs, bilaterally symetrical. etc, etc.  Great form for a terrestrial world.  Depths of space, not so much.

ahh it was all just speculation from EDI.. got it, and thank you. btw, your sig is brilliant, it really makes me think about me2..

[Breakdown Boy]

It sounds like alot of people wanted a similair experience to DAO when it came to companions. Let me just sate this:

Played DAO to completion once! (Story is too much diologue)

Played ME2 to completion twenty three times!



Lines and lines and lines of diologue can be a pain in the ass.



Two things: Characters should move around on the ship, characters should talk with each other during missions and on Ship.

[Jebel Krong]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It barely had a plot. The plot was weak at best, it was all about the characters, who's issues had nothing at all to do with the overall plot. If ME3 brings back at least most of your squadmates in important roles, then i will see the reason why ME2 did what it did, to recruit a team to combat the reapers; but if ME3 scraps all the ME2 squaddies to little VS roles, and makes you recruit brand new squaddies, then ME2 will have felt like a giant waste of time, since it didn't advance the story, at all.

the first sentence doesn't even make sense, and you contradict yourself within it... 

Do you know what the word contradict means? I don't think you do, as nothing at all in that comment was contradictory. Okay, here it is in laymens terms for you.

MASS EFFECT 2 had a W-E-A-K P-L-O-T.

what you actually said, dullard, is that the game had no plot, yet the plot was about the characters, hence contradiction. if you don't like being called on it, then don't write nonsense, kid.

[Moiaussi]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

Two things: Characters should move around on the ship, characters should talk with each other during missions and on Ship.

And shold have proper barracks rather than be stuffed in random closets.

[Moiaussi]

Jebel Krong wrote...

what you actually said, dullard, is that the game had no plot, yet the plot was about the characters, hence contradiction. if you don't like being called on it, then don't write nonsense, kid.

Is hyperbole really worth the insults?

[Jebel Krong]

Nightwriter wrote...

It's true, it was kind of frustrating the way they tease you with Grunt's plot relevance, why tell us he's made from Collector technology if it doesn't really mean anything? 

Anyway, yeah, you've nailed the kind of story I would have preferred. I felt like the story they gave us was just an excuse to bring the characters together.

okeer mentions the technology was used up/destroyed making grunt. grunt was more about the genophage plot threads than the collector ones, that link was merely something to link back to the main storyline, but because it's vague it's not really substantial enough to really mean anything for anyone not preoccupied with having everything link back to the main story.

[Moiaussi]

Jebel Krong wrote...

okeer mentions the technology was used up/destroyed making grunt. grunt was more about the genophage plot threads than the collector ones, that link was merely something to link back to the main storyline, but because it's vague it's not really substantial enough to really mean anything for anyone not preoccupied with having everything link back to the main story.

We could have found out what kind of information he got from the reapers (might be useful to have some clue what kinds of things they know). He could also have potentially given information regarding their weapons systems and/or ships, how the contact was made, etc.

Grunt could actually have been given tactical information regarding them which could have proven useful.

The point is there was an obvious hook there that the writers abandoned. It isn't really much about the genophage either. That was only mentioned so we would know Grunt is not immune and that Okeer might be trustworthy by way of his research being legal.

[TcheQ]

I wondered if the collectors were originally like the Statues on Ilos, and that is why Nazara looks like the statue of the face.



It seems a bit silly to me that the majority of reaper's were created from lobsters, cuttlefish and giant squid.



Also the first time I saw Harbinger, I assumed he had been created from Protheans.

[Jebel Krong]

iakus wrote...

I think the big, central problem isn't that a connection with the Collectors is needed, it's that the squad needs something to connect them.  The Collectors is simply the handiest thing to use.  The whole point of the game is "build a team to stop the Collectors"  Okay, what team?

Imagine describing the story to someone intersted in pursuing the reaper threat left dangling at the end of ME1:


Q: So, the Collectors are the latest threat?  I gotta go learn about them, what their connectionis to the Reapers, right?  Find out what their plan is, their strengths, their weaknesses? plan out the mission, right?
 
A:  Nope, The Illusive Man will handle that.  Your job is to build the team.
 
Q: Okay, cool.  I have to go through the potential members and select the ones that work best together.  Convince them that this is a threat to everyone.  Maybe my paragon/renegade scores or past actions will make them more or less willng to work with me.
 
A:  Actually, you're given the dossiers on the available squad members by TIM.  You don't actually get a whole lot of choices in who you are recruiting.  You just recruit them and earn their loyalty. 
 
Q:  Earn their loyalty?  I can work with that.  Get a bunch of individuals to work together as a team.  Train them to fight as a unit.  Walk a delicate tightrope amongst a dozen disparate personalities.  Real "Band of Brothers" stuff.  I need to get them to trust me to lead them into battle, and to trust each other to have their backs, right?
 
A:  Well, there are two arguments you have to break up...
 
Q:  So they do talk to each other, then?  Banter?  Argue?  Play their personalities off each other?
A:  Well...
 
Q:  They act differently once I have their loyalty, right?
A:  Umm... Hey, look! DLC guns!  ::hides:: 

"Build a team" is not a standard rpg story.  But it could have worked.  The problem is, even as the "main story" it basically just gets the "side quest" treatment.  It doesn't feel like teambuilding.  It feels like playing the latest DLC pack (except the latest DLC was leaps and bounds better)

if you reduced me1 down the same way it would be even more insubstantial (and i still like the game too much to do that again). also don't confuse game mechanic limitations with storytelling ones - BW are already juggling more variations than just about any other company, tracking something ephemerous like "teambuilding" would be very tricky (though it would have added more to the experience), but at the end of the day it's not a team-management sim, and not everyone wants the hassle, either.

you do find out the collectors connection to the reapers, not TIM. the threat is self-evident to most of the smart ones on the team, even without vested interests (cerberus personel, Miranda, Jacob, Shepard). most do act differently once they are loyal - they open up more, thane even states his problems trying to integrate etc. it's not as fully-developed as everyone would like, but it's more than we get in any other game, and will only improve in the future i'm sure.

instead of knocking the game down all the time, it perhaps would be more helpful to encourage growth areas for the future, because all your criticisms are just as apt, if not moreso, for me1 too.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It barely had a plot. The plot was weak at best, it was all about the characters, who's issues had nothing at all to do with the overall plot. If ME3 brings back at least most of your squadmates in important roles, then i will see the reason why ME2 did what it did, to recruit a team to combat the reapers; but if ME3 scraps all the ME2 squaddies to little VS roles, and makes you recruit brand new squaddies, then ME2 will have felt like a giant waste of time, since it didn't advance the story, at all.

the first sentence doesn't even make sense, and you contradict yourself within it... 

Do you know what the word contradict means? I don't think you do, as nothing at all in that comment was contradictory. Okay, here it is in laymens terms for you.

MASS EFFECT 2 had a W-E-A-K P-L-O-T.

what you actually said, dullard, is that the game had no plot, yet the plot was about the characters, hence contradiction. if you don't like being called on it, then don't write nonsense, kid.

BARELY HAD A PLOT - BARELY HAD A PLOT - BARELY HAD A PLOT.

Read the comment for god sake. Don't try and condescend me when you are obviously in the wrong you idiot.

[Jebel Krong]

Moiaussi wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

okeer mentions the technology was used up/destroyed making grunt. grunt was more about the genophage plot threads than the collector ones, that link was merely something to link back to the main storyline, but because it's vague it's not really substantial enough to really mean anything for anyone not preoccupied with having everything link back to the main story.

We could have found out what kind of information he got from the reapers (might be useful to have some clue what kinds of things they know). He could also have potentially given information regarding their weapons systems and/or ships, how the contact was made, etc.

Grunt could actually have been given tactical information regarding them which could have proven useful.

The point is there was an obvious hook there that the writers abandoned. It isn't really much about the genophage either. That was only mentioned so we would know Grunt is not immune and that Okeer might be trustworthy by way of his research being legal.

grunt is not immune, but somehow his genetics ignore the genophage, so every female he breeds with should produce viable offspring in the same way (hence okeers analogy of being the "tip of the spear"). okeer's research most certainly wasn't eithical, whether it was technically legal also seems doubtful, though i don't think anyone says one way or another, the fact that all the failed krogans were being farmed out to/hunted by blue suns suggests not.

okeer's inclusion was actually quite clever because there are hints he knew more about the collectors, at least, than you did at the time, but because he died when he did you never got to explore them, you got only hints in his video message, which was quite good (another set-back early-on to overcome, builds the threat a bit more, deepens the experience as a result).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 octobre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Nozybidaj]

Breakdown Boy wrote...
Played DAO to completion once! (Story is too much diologue)
Played ME2 to completion twenty three times!

So...about the same number of hours on both games.

Lines and lines and lines of diologue can be a pain in the ass.

Reading is hard (or listening as the case may be).