1700 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Nicholai]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Lord Nicholai wrote...

Just because its highly advanced, does that mean it must be from an ancient super-race? The latest smartphone seems to be pretty advanced, so it must be alien technology

/facepalm  Did we not play the same ME2 or did you miss the giant Terminator at the end of the game.  They showed us how Reapers are made.  I think it is safe to assume all the Reapers are made the same way.  If that is indeed the case there should have been alien slushie all over the Citadel, or did the random looters and thieves scrape up and dispose of the DNA of 100,000's of thousands beings of whatever race were used to make Soveriegn?  Not a single drop of goo could be found anywhere?  Really?

Did you play ME with you face in your palm and miss some vital bits? Sovereign didn't just blow up like a chicken stuffed with fireworks. Look at what happened to the Sovereign controlled Saren, he incinerated and left nothing behind, so its not unreasonable to assume something similar happened to the Reaper itself. All the DNA you mention would have burned up and wouldn't be in any state to collect and analyze, it won't shower down on the citadel like the Stay Puft marshmallow man in Ghostbusters.

As for the looters, I didn't say they took everything, to be honest I didn't really need to mention that .
Whilst there would still be loads of debris to study, it won't be certain proof that its anything other than a highly advanced geth-built weapon.

[wulf3n]

Ryzaki wrote...
Yeah I know ME1's maps were recycled.

I never really understood that complaint. To me that ads to the realism. Yes i can see from a game design perspective that its not the most desirable trait to have in your game, but when humans start colonizing other planets generic prefab shelters are going to be very common.

I think thats the real reason i prefer ME1 over ME2 like you said ME1 makes you feel like your in space, it feels like a living breathing universe. ME2 just sucks you out of the immersion constantly, whether its transporting you straight to combat zones, not having a single civilian npc move...ever, not being able to explore anything, combat zones feeling like they've been designed with combat in mind. I can just imagine the architects now:
"hey, why don't we chuck an l-corner here, with only half high railing, so if there's ever some people having a shoot out the guy on this side can have cover from both directions, and be able to flank, even though it doesn't help out our factory very much, we'll be planning ahead"

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Ryzaki wrote...

Come to think of it, where did EDI get prothean DNA for the baseline comparason with the Collectors? And since Vigil was only low on power, why hasn't anyone simply figured out how to feed energy into it?[/quote]

Because everyone in the ME world only has a brain when Shep is in close proximity. 

Joking aside. I thought the protheans left plenty of genetic DNA around. 

And Vigil...I'd guess the council didn't really give a damn. 
[/quote]

Traces of the Prothean civilization were all but eliminated. The reapers seem to recycle corpses rather than leave them lieing about.

[Pocketgb]

wulf3n wrote...
I never really understood that complaint. To me that ads to the realism.

The bolded answers your question, really. Immersion varies between each and every player, and some players appreciate different degrees of 'realism'. Just look at the elevators argument: Plenty of players hated the length, plenty of players were immersed by them.

[Epic777]

Pocketgb wrote...

wulf3n wrote...
I never really understood that complaint. To me that ads to the realism.

The bolded answers your question, really. Immersion varies between each and every player, and some players appreciate different degrees of 'realism'. Just look at the elevators argument: Plenty of players hated the length, plenty of players were immersed by them.

Quoted for truth:

[Iakus]

wulf3n wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Yeah I know ME1's maps were recycled.

I never really understood that complaint. To me that ads to the realism. Yes i can see from a game design perspective that its not the most desirable trait to have in your game, but when humans start colonizing other planets generic prefab shelters are going to be very common.

I could imagine some kind of 18th-19th century frontier version of Mass Effect::

"AH, man, another log cabin?  Can't these guys change things up a little?" 

I think thats the real reason i prefer ME1 over ME2 like you said ME1 makes you feel like your in space, it feels like a living breathing universe. ME2 just sucks you out of the immersion constantly, whether its transporting you straight to combat zones, not having a single civilian npc move...ever, not being able to explore anything, combat zones feeling like they've been designed with combat in mind. I can just imagine the architects now:
"hey, why don't we chuck an l-corner here, with only half high railing, so if there's ever some people having a shoot out the guy on this side can have cover from both directions, and be able to flank, even though it doesn't help out our factory very much, we'll be planning ahead"

The ME 1 universe felt huge, old, and not very welcoming.  Just like the humanity's reception from the galactic community.

It could have been tweaked , some problems ironed out.  But overall it had the right idea.

ME 2 universe feels like it's designed specifically for cover-shooting.  Narrow corridors.  improbably cover. Close confines.  Impressively designed though they were, they were just impressively designed shoeboxes.

[Ryzaki]

Moiaussi wrote...


Traces of the Prothean civilization were all but eliminated. The reapers seem to recycle corpses rather than leave them lieing about.

 

All but being the key. There were bits small bits here and there. Enough to assume they got some DNA. The real question is where Mordin got the time to build that mini seeker swarm out of just Veetor's data. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lord Nicholai wrote...

Did you play ME with you face in your palm and miss some vital bits? Sovereign didn't just blow up like a chicken stuffed with fireworks. Look at what happened to the Sovereign controlled Saren, he incinerated and left nothing behind, so its not unreasonable to assume something similar happened to the Reaper itself. All the DNA you mention would have burned up and wouldn't be in any state to collect and analyze, it won't shower down on the citadel like the Stay Puft marshmallow man in Ghostbusters.

IIRC, we're shown pieces of Sovereign scattered all over the Council chamber area, some time after the destruction of the Reaper, as Shep and his team are being dug out, and those pieces show no sign of burning up or turning to dust.

[Kristofer1]

ME1 was a role playing game, ME2 was an action adventure game.

ME1 made you use natural cover during a fire fight. Not like running around and having perfect paintball game cover that is used in ME2.

Also they took a back step in technology with the reloading scheme. LAME. You had a great thing that could potentially be probable with the over heat issue in ME1. Ruined it in ME2 with reloading. Good thing reapers had mags to use or heat sinks whatever the official name is on the derelict reaper. very convenient.

The game was clearly heavily influenced be EA. no other reason for the action adventure that should not have occurred. ME1 had its flaws, inventory system was slightly annoying but nothing worse than any RPG. It was an RPG. The problem with ME2 is that EA sidelined the RPG fans to make a action adventure. A good one but not a great one like ME1. I've only done to ME2 playthroughs, maybe 7 or 8 ME1. Including driving for hours to get all the anomalies on all the planets that are identical.

[Nightwriter]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Killjoy, as someone who played ME2 first, how did you feel ME1's story compared with ME2's? 

More of ME1's content was tied to the main story, and more of the side content was linked by side stories.  This isn't to say that ME1 didn't have its share of "Why am I wasting time with this crap, the clock is ticking!" content that I did anyway because of the XP and equipment needs (ah, the metagaming) -- a small issue with both games.

I don't think either story was bad.  ME2 did come across as a forced and contrived in more spots than ME1, with examples given aplenty. 

I don't like feeling rail-roaded by an RPG, and ME2 gave me more of that feeling.  I'd say that talking to the Council before agreeing to work with Cerberus would have helped, but the way they treat Shep in the meeting makes it seem just as bad.  Oddly enough, the "Sorry, TIM has an errand" moments were some of the worst in terms of feeling railroaded.

I would like to have had more options to try to explain to the VS how Shep (or my Sheps, at least) feel like they're trapped working with Cerberus because no one else is helping, and how frustrating it is.

That's the thing though, they didn't make me feel like working with Cerberus was necessary.

It wasn't just that they didn't let me ask my old allies for help first (I'm just magically supposed to believe Cerberus is the only one who can help).

It's that the Collector threat didn't seem like that big a deal to me. I didn't feel threatened. My character would've found Freedom's Progress weird and disturbing, but I wouldn't have gone, "OMG THIS MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS I MUST JOIN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION!"

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Killjoy, as someone who played ME2 first, how did you feel ME1's story compared with ME2's? 

More of ME1's content was tied to the main story, and more of the side content was linked by side stories.  This isn't to say that ME1 didn't have its share of "Why am I wasting time with this crap, the clock is ticking!" content that I did anyway because of the XP and equipment needs (ah, the metagaming) -- a small issue with both games.

I don't think either story was bad.  ME2 did come across as a forced and contrived in more spots than ME1, with examples given aplenty. 

I don't like feeling rail-roaded by an RPG, and ME2 gave me more of that feeling.  I'd say that talking to the Council before agreeing to work with Cerberus would have helped, but the way they treat Shep in the meeting makes it seem just as bad.  Oddly enough, the "Sorry, TIM has an errand" moments were some of the worst in terms of feeling railroaded.

I would like to have had more options to try to explain to the VS how Shep (or my Sheps, at least) feel like they're trapped working with Cerberus because no one else is helping, and how frustrating it is.

That's the thing though, they didn't make me feel like working with Cerberus was necessary.

It wasn't just that they didn't let me ask my old allies for help first (I'm just magically supposed to believe Cerberus is the only one who can help).

It's that the Collector threat didn't seem like that big a deal to me. I didn't feel threatened. My character would've found Freedom's Progress weird and disturbing, but I wouldn't have gone, "OMG THIS MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS I MUST JOIN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION!"

Don't forget that until the Collector Ship mission, you only have TIM's word that the Reapers are involved at all.

[Terror_K]

Jebel Krong wrote...

you also obviously missed Jacob's pretty reasonable explanation for all this at the beginning of me2

That was the biggest f***ing cop-out in the entire game: justifying the whole thing with such an obviously weak and pathetic one-liner from Jacob was beyond insulting. Pathetic.

[Ryzaki]

What line? Did I miss something?

[Terror_K]

Ryzaki wrote...

What line? Did I miss something?

Can't remember the exact line, but it was something along the lines of "different people in charge, same bull****" or something to that effect. It was like BioWare was basically saying "we know that it's a cop-out, but rather than actually do anything about it we'll just gloss over and acknowledge our failings with this one line and leave it at that."

[Iakus]

Terror_K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What line? Did I miss something?

Can't remember the exact line, but it was something along the lines of "different people in charge, same bull****" or something to that effect. It was like BioWare was basically saying "we know that it's a cop-out, but rather than actually do anything about it we'll just gloss over and acknowledge our failings with this one line and leave it at that."

"I thought things would change after the attack on the Citadel.  Humanity was finally invited to join the Council.  But nothing changed.  Politics.  Bureaucracy.  Same bull****, different leaders."

Likely minor changes for more renegade options

[Lunatic LK47]

iakus wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What line? Did I miss something?

Can't remember the exact line, but it was something along the lines of "different people in charge, same bull****" or something to that effect. It was like BioWare was basically saying "we know that it's a cop-out, but rather than actually do anything about it we'll just gloss over and acknowledge our failings with this one line and leave it at that."

"I thought things would change after the attack on the Citadel.  Humanity was finally invited to join the Council.  But nothing changed.  Politics.  Bureaucracy.  Same bull****, different leaders."

Likely minor changes for more renegade options

Renegade version is this:
"I thought things would change after the attack on the Citadel.  The Old Council was dead, and humanity took control of the new one.  But nothing changed. 
Politics.  Bureaucracy.  Same bull****, different leaders."

[Jebel Krong]

Moiaussi wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Compared to his me2 incarnation? Most definitely!

Hyperbole aside, it was just an example of a character that was better in the sequel - the fact that he was a returning one, even better.

Definately opinion only. How is a character who has multiple character development paths with clear character development towards paragon or renegade (ME1) 'less interesting' than the same character having an inexplicable relapse to renegade (if paragon in ME1)  and no such clear character development (ME2)?

He even inexplicably stands in the middle of a room all but saying 'hey gunship, please shoot me!' despite taking cover sanely the rest of that mission, and can't even fix or change his own armour in ME2.
 
You have an interesting definition of 'better.'

really? because it's clearly explained what caused the character shift: the whole my squad got murdered thing....:innocent: all the main characters were not only given more material, but more development in the sequel - that's not opinion, that's fact.

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

What line? Did I miss something?

Can't remember the exact line, but it was something along the lines of "different people in charge, same bull****" or something to that effect. It was like BioWare was basically saying "we know that it's a cop-out, but rather than actually do anything about it we'll just gloss over and acknowledge our failings with this one line and leave it at that."

and how is that a cop-out? sounds pretty realistic to me - people force politicians to change, they don't do it themselves.

[Jebel Krong]

iakus wrote...

The ME 1 universe felt huge, old, and not very welcoming.  Just like the humanity's reception from the galactic community.

It could have been tweaked , some problems ironed out.  But overall it had the right idea.

ME 2 universe feels like it's designed specifically for cover-shooting.  Narrow corridors.  improbably cover. Close confines.  Impressively designed though they were, they were just impressively designed shoeboxes.

hold on, you just compared two very different things:

1. the overall 'feel' of the games - me1 did feel like you said, me2 felt the same, but darker and more dangerous, perhaps less sterile, (but that's because you spent less time on barren UNCs).

2. level design, yes certain concessions were made to tighten up the combat, but you can see even that evolving to the point of LoSB where it's a lot more naturally integrated (though the bane of UE3 games - linearity - is still omnipresent).

however don't confuse the two because me1's main missions were just as linear as me2s, the only freedom you got was on the UNC worlds - and they got dull fast (just not as dull as me2's mining). ignoring the stupid hammerhead, at least we've had some non-linearity in me2 in overlord.

[Nightwriter]

I consider things like level design and improbable cover small beans, myself.

Combat is combat, they are always going to leave ammo lying around for you, they're always going to have cover for you, the battlefield is always going to just happen to have handy things you can use to your advantage.

iakus wrote...

Don't forget that until the Collector Ship mission, you only have TIM's word that the Reapers are involved at all.

Do not feed the flames of my criticisms. Do not encourage my behavior.

[SithLordExarKun]

Hopefully they implement larger areas in ME3. As much as i like the fact that ME2;s worlds felt more populated, they felt much to claustrophobic.



That and the lack of any character progression in Shepard in both games is something i personally think they should work on.

[SithLordExarKun]

Moiaussi wrote...


Definately opinion only. How is a character who has multiple character development paths with clear character development towards paragon or renegade (ME1) 'less interesting' than the same character having an inexplicable relapse to renegade (if paragon in ME1)  and no such clear character development (ME2)?

He even inexplicably stands in the middle of a room all but saying 'hey gunship, please shoot me!' despite taking cover sanely the rest of that mission, and can't even fix or change his own armour in ME2.
 
You have an interesting definition of 'better.'

Definately opinion only.

[Jebel Krong]

Nightwriter wrote...

iakus wrote...

Don't forget that until the Collector Ship mission, you only have TIM's word that the Reapers are involved at all.

Do not feed the flames of my criticisms. Do not encourage my behavior.

so what? you'd already been killed by *unknown enemy A* once, then TIM tells you entire colonies are vanishing - even with circumstantial links to the reapers that alone is more than enough for a SPECTRE to be looking at, cerberus or not.

[Nightwriter]

I just don't feel that way, Jebel. Basically a stranger tells you about some other strangers and you just jump right into it. I'm not saying they couldn't have explained it well, I'm saying they rushed it.

[Jebel Krong]

Nightwriter wrote...

I just don't feel that way, Jebel. Basically a stranger tells you about some other strangers and you just jump right into it. I'm not saying they couldn't have explained it well, I'm saying they rushed it.

it's supposed to be rushed - edge of the wire - type of thing, that's the point. you pick up the breadcrumbs along the way, the point of the start is to get you going and avoid the (oft-criticised, lest we forget) lull that plagued me1 - the initial visit to the citadel. could they have done more? maybe. you weren't brought back from the dead because everything's sunshine and roses, you were brought back because colonies are vanishing and no-one knows who's going to be next, and you did kill a reaper already.

i'm sorry but your complaint isn't valid - plenty of fiction uses the same sort of premise/set-up mechanics, you act like me2 is out of the norm, when it really isn't, it's an old template.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 26 octobre 2010 - 11:33 .