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[Terror_K]

They used to talk more here. Moreso at the old forums actually. They only went all silent shortly after ME2's release.

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe I should become more of a DA fan than an ME fan then.

... No, no, Mass Effect, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it, it was just a moment of despair...

Heretic! I'll get the kindling and ropes, someone else find a torch!

i have one - and Pitchforks for all!

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

You're confusing content with presentation here. Besides, Blade Runner was actually dark, as opposed to these silly overly gritty, faux-dark grimdark movies they do today, which is more what ME2 is like. Visually ME1 and ME2 aren't that different, beyond lighting and the fact that ME2 has you in darker, less clean places. The tone of the writing isn't terribly different, but ME1's did seem a bit more mature; ME2 was a little juvenile in places. ME2 just comes across more as the type of mindless action-based sci-fi movie of today that's more about being cool and badass than it is about quality or good storytelling.

not at all - presentation comes into it, yes, but thematically as well - blade runner deals with life and death and what it means to live, mass effect 2 does as well (perhaps not as deeply as it could have, especially after resurrection, but that's not what the game is about) - shepard, the collectors, the genophage etc all tie into these themes. me1 and me2 are nothing alike in terms of visuals - you have some overlap with the citadel, but that's about it (and technically me1 looks very washed out in most places). i can't really think when me2 was more juvenile than 1 - certainly some of the themes are quite mature - again, genophage, nature of collectors, working with terrorists etc etc doesn't scream 'immature subject matter' to me. the only time they took a step back was probably the romance scenes, and frankly after what heppened with fox news, i can't blame them, though i wish they hadn't cow-towed. both games have badass covered if you want to be a little renegade: shooting the tenth st. reds guy in front of the turian, and snapping the merc's neck in miranda's loyalty mission being two stand-out moments that immediately spring to mind...

[Jebel Krong]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well... just how exactly has BioWare been "treating its fans"? They gave me an amazing first game, they listened to fan feedback and fan complaint, tried to address every issue they heard about, gave me a second game that they put an amazing amount of work into even if I strongly disagree with its story design choices, gave me great DLC on top of that which addressed even more of my complaints, and haven't all shot themselves in the head after seeing that the combined Disappointment threads have probably reached 1000 pages.

And who have they lost? I was disappointed with ME2's story direction - quite - but they haven't lost me as a fan. I still bought the game and I don't wish to un-buy it or un-play it. Even the majority of people who were disappointed are still avid members of the fan community.

Now I agree that ME2 has muddied the waters a bit. If there's one thing a sequel shouldn't do, it's make the third installment about damage control, and it may be that that's what ME2 did. But I think if there's any company that knows that sales aren't a measure of quality, it's BioWare, and I think that if there's any company that tries to achieve quality and not just sales, it's BioWare, so I'm not going to turn on them because of what is, in my opinion, one sort-of-slipup in a long track record of making great games.

i don't think they will view me3 as a damage-limitation excercise - i do worry, however, that the commercial and - especially - critical success might not make them think as carefully about some of the limitations of me2, especially, than they would perhaps otherwise (the comments about planet scanning returning already, for example). however this being bioware, me3 has every chance of being completely different again from both prequels.

Lumikki wrote...

First I think Bioware has stirred little bit they fans. Also what they did with ME2 was not win or lose situation, more like it did not really go any direction with fan base size. ME1 and ME2 sales as total starts to be allmost same now and both games supports other sales. Because most of us want to play both of them, because both of them are good games.

if current estimates are true, me2 has sold approximately 1.5 million copies more than me1 to date - that's not far off double, and it's not even come out on ps3 yet (though that is of course an unfair advantage/comparison). i can't see any bioware game getting 10 million (maybe excepting TOR) - the games are just too complex for the 'joe bloggs' consumer.

as for the comments about no one singular person being the driving force behind the mass effect series - if anyone was it would be casey. however the best projects tend to be the more collaborative efforts these days - hence the prevalence of the "writing room" style for most of the more successful recent tv shows, for exampe.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 31 octobre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nightwriter wrote...

If I see another amazing in-depth feedback post from David or Mike I'm going to cry. Cry, I tell you.

It's disturbingly amazing how much developer attention the DA forums get. Ever since ME2 was released, we've essentially been left in the dark. I think Christina Norman is the most active of the ME team as far as developer commentary goes. I appreciate her effort in giving us insight on ME2's gameplay and what it may mean for ME3. The thing is, there's no one to discuss other issues with, such as story, characters, import bugs, plot holes, DLC, and in-universe questions in general. This is exactly what David Gaider and his fellows have been doing for the past several months over in the DA section.

Oh well, maybe when the ME3 promotion campaign starts, whenever that is. But only maybe!

[glacier1701]

Nightwriter,

 Seems as if a number of posters between my last post and now have kinda answered the question of how we are being treated by the devs as compared to the DA devs. I would say that that is a question of how the person in charge of ME feels about the fans. It is reflected in the fact that whenever we have had Casey talking about ME in an interview it always seems so full of doublespeak you actually wonder what he said. Its hard to take him seriously when he says that the planet scanning/mining mechanic was fine but the players are to blame for using them in a way that was not intended. Or how about the fact that 'exploration' content is actually represented by the fuel mechanic we have? I know I do not see that as a measure of exploration. 

 Yet, like you, I still play ME2 and am looking forward to seeing what ME3 might bring. However unlike the way I felt prior to ME2 where I pre-ordered I'll be looking at reviews on this forum before making a purchase decision.  Even then I am not guanteed to buy ME3. While it may still be a good game if it deviates too much from what it promises why should I buy it? ME is the type of game I am interested in after all I also play EvE (and have done so for over 6 years and put in time as a volunteer writing live events for EvE when they did that  a few years back). But if ME3 carries on as ME2 did compared to ME1 then it might well not have been produced as far as I am concerned. Continuity/consequences is something that I rate highly and that is one of the things that has not occured moving between ME1 and ME2 and that is a major disappointment.

[Moiaussi]

Jebel Krong wrote...

if current estimates are true, me2 has sold approximately 1.5 million copies more than me1 to date - that's not far off double, and it's not even come out on ps3 yet (though that is of course an unfair advantage/comparison). i can't see any bioware game getting 10 million (maybe excepting TOR) - the games are just too complex for the 'joe bloggs' consumer.

as for the comments about no one singular person being the driving force behind the mass effect series - if anyone was it would be casey. however the best projects tend to be the more collaborative efforts these days - hence the prevalence of the "writing room" style for most of the more successful recent tv shows, for exampe.

Given they reportedly had 2 million of initial sales for ME2 (which is likely in great part due to how good ME1 was), it will be interesting how the reaction of otherwise loyal fans will be to ME3.

[Nightwriter]

Jebel Krong wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Maybe I should become more of a DA fan than an ME fan then.

... No, no, Mass Effect, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it, it was just a moment of despair...

Heretic! I'll get the kindling and ropes, someone else find a torch!

i have one - and Pitchforks for all!

I always knew it would end like this. Chased to the top of a tower by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks.

glacier1701 wrote...

Nightwriter,

Seems as if a number of posters between my last  post and now have kinda answered the question of how we are being treated by the devs as compared to the DA devs. I would say that that is a question of how the person in charge of ME feels about the fans. It is reflected in the fact that whenever we have had Casey talking about ME in an interview it always seems so full of doublespeak you actually wonder what he said. Its hard to take him seriously when he says that the planet scanning/mining mechanic was fine but the players are to blame for using them in a way that was not intended. Or how about the fact that 'exploration' content is actually represented by the fuel mechanic we have? I know I do not see that as a measure of exploration. 

Yet, like you, I still play ME2 and am looking forward to seeing what ME3 might bring. However unlike the way I felt prior to ME2 where I pre-ordered I'll be looking at reviews on this forum before making a purchase decision.  Even then I am not guanteed to buy ME3. While it may still be a good game if it deviates too much from what it promises why should I buy it? ME is the type of game I am interested in after all I also play EvE (and have done so for over 6 years and put in time as a volunteer writing live events for EvE when they did that  a few years back). But if ME3 carries on as ME2 did compared to ME1 then it might well not have been produced as far as I am concerned. Continuity/consequences is something that I rate highly and that is one of the things that has not occured moving between ME1 and ME2 and that is a major disappointment.

I see what you're saying.

Fuel expenditure is most certainly not an exploration feature, Casey most certainly is a genius at dodging questions, and I most certainly am disappointed in ME2 on a story/continuity level. I just hope it isn't a trend. After looking at DA2's campaign, ME2 looks like it suffered from a severe lack of attention, and after seeing all the work they put into it, that's a hard truth for me to accept.

[Jaron Oberyn]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

If I see another amazing in-depth feedback post from David or Mike I'm going to cry. Cry, I tell you.

It's disturbingly amazing how much developer attention the DA forums get. Ever since ME2 was released, we've essentially been left in the dark. I think Christina Norman is the most active of the ME team as far as developer commentary goes. I appreciate her effort in giving us insight on ME2's gameplay and what it may mean for ME3. The thing is, there's no one to discuss other issues with, such as story, characters, import bugs, plot holes, DLC, and in-universe questions in general. This is exactly what David Gaider and his fellows have been doing for the past several months over in the DA section.

Oh well, maybe when the ME3 promotion campaign starts, whenever that is. But only maybe!

It is quite sad actually. Hopefully its just that they're announcing Mass 3 either this month or December. Otherwise, it's really uncalled for. I don't see how they could do that anyways. Whenever I used to work with mod teams, I was eager to post the new stuff we were doing. Although I can understand restraint, they haven't said anything since September.

-Polite

[Nightwriter]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

If I see another amazing in-depth feedback post from David or Mike I'm going to cry. Cry, I tell you.

It's disturbingly amazing how much developer attention the DA forums get. Ever since ME2 was released, we've essentially been left in the dark. I think Christina Norman is the most active of the ME team as far as developer commentary goes. I appreciate her effort in giving us insight on ME2's gameplay and what it may mean for ME3. The thing is, there's no one to discuss other issues with, such as story, characters, import bugs, plot holes, DLC, and in-universe questions in general. This is exactly what David Gaider and his fellows have been doing for the past several months over in the DA section.

Oh well, maybe when the ME3 promotion campaign starts, whenever that is. But only maybe!

I just read long posts the devs made defending Isabela's character. I mean my God. They come on and debate with forum jerks about characters! It's as if the gods themselves descended from on high to debate scripture. I cannot conceive of it.

Really makes you look around and go, "Why do the devs never come on here to defend Jack?!"

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

If I see another amazing in-depth feedback post from David or Mike I'm going to cry. Cry, I tell you.

It's disturbingly amazing how much developer attention the DA forums get. Ever since ME2 was released, we've essentially been left in the dark. I think Christina Norman is the most active of the ME team as far as developer commentary goes. I appreciate her effort in giving us insight on ME2's gameplay and what it may mean for ME3. The thing is, there's no one to discuss other issues with, such as story, characters, import bugs, plot holes, DLC, and in-universe questions in general. This is exactly what David Gaider and his fellows have been doing for the past several months over in the DA section.

Oh well, maybe when the ME3 promotion campaign starts, whenever that is. But only maybe!

I just read long posts the devs made defending Isabela's character. I mean my God. They come on and debate with forum jerks about characters! It's as if the gods themselves descended from on high to debate scripture. I cannot conceive of it.

Really makes you look around and go, "Why do the devs never come on here to defend Jack?!"

I think you'll start seeing them once ME3 is announced. 

[Jebel Krong]

actually patrick weekes used to come on and talk about characters on the old forums quite a bit, but i can see why they would be reluctant to further engage "forum jerks" by now - given the wild inaccuracies and hyperbole that are regularly flung around as "facts."

i expect the first thing we'll hear of me3 will be GDC next year, BW seem to hate to announce anything whilst promoting another project (DA2), so ocne that ships i'm sure attention will turn to me3, and they've shown elements of each previous me game at previous GDCs.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 01 novembre 2010 - 12:19 .

[Terror_K]

Jebel Krong wrote...

actually patrick weekes used to come on and talk about characters on the old forums quite a bit, but i can see why they would be reluctant to further engage "forum jerks" by now - given the wild inaccuracies and hyperbole that are regularly flung around as "facts."

If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely. When ME1 came out they were willing to listen and discuss improvements to the game and have a little back and forth with us, and you can at least see the same thing happening with regards to DAO and DA2 on the Dragon Age forums now (even if I don't necessarily agree with their direction and the reasoning behind it, they're still interacting there).

For a company apparently so proud of their fan interaction and working with and listening to the fans to improve their games, they certainly have been lacking in this department with discussing ME2. They were all keen to talk it up before it came out and make grandiose claims about how much better everything was and how deep it all was, but now that's it's come out and many of the forumites have said, "this didn't quite deliver" they've disappeared. I know that them coming on here to discuss things or not is a choice of theirs, and it's a priviledge and not a right for us, but they used to be a lot more active (this year has been the deadest the official ME forums have ever been), the timing of their move from "major posts every day" to "next to complete silence" is rather convenient, and they're not helping win over those who have doubts by hiding in their caves and (seemingly) ignoring any form of criticism thrown at them. Oh sure... we got that little page about unhappy fans with the blurb about needing to strengthen RPG elements in Christina Norman's GDC presentation, but that was about 10 months ago now, and wasn't exactly interactive.

[tonnactus]

Oblarg wrote...



I'd probably be happy if they scrapped everything other than the improved character writing and the cover system, to be completely honest.  The plot is simply the worst of many problems ME2 introduced.

What they "improved" they took away with artificial cover,the removement of crouch and a free choice where to take cover.

[SithLordExarKun]

Terror_K wrote...


If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely.

They have actually,many times in the past they have came here to face peoples criticism but its people like you that waits at every turn to relentlesly bash anything they say that forced them to not bother about interacting here anymore.

[Iakus]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Terror_K wrote...


If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely.

They have actually,many times in the past they have came here to face peoples criticism but its people like you that waits at every turn to relentlesly bash anything they say that forced them to not bother about interacting here anymore.

This must have been very soon after release, because I don't remember any of  that.  As far as I can recall, we've just been bashing each other.

[glacier1701]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Terror_K wrote...


If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely.

They have actually,many times in the past they have came here to face peoples criticism but its people like you that waits at every turn to relentlesly bash anything they say that forced them to not bother about interacting here anymore.

I dont think we've treated those devs who did come in that badly. Indeed most were treated with respect from most of us. I would say that even if we did not like what they had to say the discussion stayed civilised for the most part. After all IF it got off track or degenerated into insults the posts were edited and the poster possibly warned/banned. Yet regardless of what may have occured on the forums the game developers have got to have thick hides because there is never any guarantee that the game they may have spent 2 years (or more) will garner aclaim either from us, the customer, the critics or from those groups that hand out awards. And those 2 other categories of people can really be cutting in what they say if they feel a game is bad. To some degree what we say is nowhere near as bad because at the very least we are not 'professionals'.

[SithLordExarKun]

glacier1701 wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Terror_K wrote...


If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely.

They have actually,many times in the past they have came here to face peoples criticism but its people like you that waits at every turn to relentlesly bash anything they say that forced them to not bother about interacting here anymore.

I dont think we've treated those devs who did come in that badly. Indeed most were treated with respect from most of us. I would say that even if we did not like what they had to say the discussion stayed civilised for the most part. After all IF it got off track or degenerated into insults the posts were edited and the poster possibly warned/banned. Yet regardless of what may have occured on the forums the game developers have got to have thick hides because there is never any guarantee that the game they may have spent 2 years (or more) will garner aclaim either from us, the customer, the critics or from those groups that hand out awards. And those 2 other categories of people can really be cutting in what they say if they feel a game is bad. To some degree what we say is nowhere near as bad because at the very least we are not 'professionals'.

Not you, a group of others. I didn't say they were uncivilized, when i said bash i meant bash as in trying to outright destroy any attempt the devs tried to explain themselves or their direction in the game rather than actually try to have a constructive argument, thats why they left and don't bother with the ME forums anymore. That and the fact that the people hating/bashing this game are in the extreme minority. Some of the users even went as far as to tell they developers how to do their jobs and that they are outright wrong.

I appreciate that you at least proclaimed that you are not a professional, but a few other members here(i won't point out names) seem to think that they are thus they get to dictate weather anybody(including the developers)
is right or wrong. Thats what sickens me and then they start to argue how the devs cower in fear.

[Lumikki]

In simple way say it, there is no point to talk "hostile" people. Who just judge the work what company has made.

Too much negativeness in forum talk will force developers away, because no human wants to hear every day just negative stuff about what they have done. Remember this game is they work. You may think this isn't right, but it's just consequence of your own doing.

I think, it's also affected that DA2 is comming soon, so they conserate more to it now.

Modifié par Lumikki, 02 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Moiaussi]

Lumikki wrote...

In simple way say it, there is no point to talk "hostile" people. Who just judge the work what company has made.

Too much negativeness in forum talk will force developers away, because no human wants to hear every day just negative stuff about what they have done. Remember this game is they work. You may think this isn't right, but it's just consequence of your own doing.

I think, it's also affected that DA2 is comming soon, so they conserate more to it now.

So you figure that figuring out why people are being negative when ME1 discussions tended to be more positive is less important to them than their egos?

Noone likes to be told they made a mistake. That does not mean criticism should be avoided. And I don't really thing there is 'too much negativeness.' People are still hopeful about ME3. After ME1 people were in a 'god I hope it comes out soon!' mood. This time round they are still interested, but more on a 'we'll wait and see' basis.

There are no lynch mobs, merely concerned consumers.

[Lumikki]

Moiaussi wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

In simple way say it, there is no point to talk "hostile" people. Who just judge the work what company has made.

Too much negativeness in forum talk will force developers away, because no human wants to hear every day just negative stuff about what they have done. Remember this game is they work. You may think this isn't right, but it's just consequence of your own doing.

I think, it's also affected that DA2 is comming soon, so they conserate more to it now.

So you figure that figuring out why people are being negative when ME1 discussions tended to be more positive is less important to them than their egos?

Noone likes to be told they made a mistake. That does not mean criticism should be avoided. And I don't really thing there is 'too much negativeness.' People are still hopeful about ME3. After ME1 people were in a 'god I hope it comes out soon!' mood. This time round they are still interested, but more on a 'we'll wait and see' basis.

There are no lynch mobs, merely concerned consumers.

It's not about ego or knowing that people don't like to hear they mistake. It's about human nature. It's not about what is right or wrong, it's pure consequence what will happen. Should criticism be avoided, of course not, but it will be avoided, because human nature. If I call someone **** every day, sooner or later that person tries to avoid me. That's how it works. There is two different thing what should be done and what will happen.

[SithLordExarKun]

Moiaussi wrote...

So you figure that figuring out why people are being negative when ME1 discussions tended to be more positive is less important to them than their egos?

Noone likes to be told they made a mistake. That does not mean criticism should be avoided. And I don't really thing there is 'too much negativeness.' People are still hopeful about ME3. After ME1 people were in a 'god I hope it comes out soon!' mood. This time round they are still interested, but more on a 'we'll wait and see' basis.

There are no lynch mobs, merely concerned consumers.

Actually the way i see it, the people on the ME1 boards were alot less hostile than the current ones here and so far i see them not being hopeful at all for ME3 given that this is something they keep emphasizing on.

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

actually patrick weekes used to come on and talk about characters on the old forums quite a bit, but i can see why they would be reluctant to further engage "forum jerks" by now - given the wild inaccuracies and hyperbole that are regularly flung around as "facts."

If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely. When ME1 came out they were willing to listen and discuss improvements to the game and have a little back and forth with us, and you can at least see the same thing happening with regards to DAO and DA2 on the Dragon Age forums now (even if I don't necessarily agree with their direction and the reasoning behind it, they're still interacting there).

For a company apparently so proud of their fan interaction and working with and listening to the fans to improve their games, they certainly have been lacking in this department with discussing ME2. They were all keen to talk it up before it came out and make grandiose claims about how much better everything was and how deep it all was, but now that's it's come out and many of the forumites have said, "this didn't quite deliver" they've disappeared. I know that them coming on here to discuss things or not is a choice of theirs, and it's a priviledge and not a right for us, but they used to be a lot more active (this year has been the deadest the official ME forums have ever been), the timing of their move from "major posts every day" to "next to complete silence" is rather convenient, and they're not helping win over those who have doubts by hiding in their caves and (seemingly) ignoring any form of criticism thrown at them. Oh sure... we got that little page about unhappy fans with the blurb about needing to strengthen RPG elements in Christina Norman's GDC presentation, but that was about 10 months ago now, and wasn't exactly interactive.

i agree, but: there was the move to the social.bioware site which kinda killed continuity - the new one works very differently. if they had kept the old one, i expect that a few of the more familiar faces would have stuck around longer - jesse houston and brenon holmes are still around occasionally. most people seem to use other outlets for updates, too - twitter being a prime example. i don't like it, as it makes everything so fragmented, but there you go.

oh and tonnactus: you have just proved what a moron you are, again - well done.

[Terror_K]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Terror_K wrote...


If the devs came around and actually popped in to discuss these things though, then I wouldn't be as mad or even volatile about the whole thing. As it stands their ignoring the forums just frustrates me and makes it seem as if they're simply ignoring and failing to acknowledge ME2's faults and avoiding criticism completely.

They have actually,many times in the past they have came here to face peoples criticism but its people like you that waits at every turn to relentlesly bash anything they say that forced them to not bother about interacting here anymore.

Where is this then? I've been here since the start (and since the old boards) and while I recall devs being around and defending themselves against those who were concerned prior to ME2's release, I don't remember much being said at all after ME2 came out. If you can point me to a few old threads from February and/or March I'll be happy to eat my words, but I seriously don't recall devs in here actively defending what they did with ME2 and explaining the changes and whatnot  since the game came out.

The forum transition really isn't an excuse because even the DAO forums started somewhere else and moved at the same time, and their activity was just as prevalent after the move as it was before. The ME section was pretty busy prior to ME2's release since the move too.

DA2 isn't an excuse either, since beyond the community crew such as Chris who deal with the BioWare community as a whole we've got two different teams here. I suspect that, yes, when the first ME3 stuff starts coming we'll at least get a little more from the devs, but this doesn't change the fact that the ME team were still very active on the forums after ME1 came out and the Dragon Age team have been pretty active throughout most of DAO's known existence.

As a final note, I suspect that there were more people who were generally happy with ME1 than were with ME2. Whether that's a factor or not, I don't know. One also has to keep in mind that with the first part of the IP you either gain fans or not, and you don't really have existing ones. Fans will stay, those who aren't or who are generally uphappy with the project won't so much complain but just leave or not bother discussing things at all. When you've created fans with the first game and then the second comes along and makes a group of them unhappy, they're more likely to stay and complain since they were made fans by the previous work(s) and are less likely to leave. It's easier to just leave or ignore a something when you never got into it in the first place than it is when you did get into it and then felt that later incarnations aren't as good. For example, I'll complain on boards about what's happened with Star Wars and Star Trek because I was a fan of those things and strongly dislike what's happened to these properties more recently. I won't complain about what's going on with recent Superman comics or the recent G.I. Joe movie when I was never a fan in the first place.

[Nightwriter]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

So you figure that figuring out why people are being negative when ME1 discussions tended to be more positive is less important to them than their egos?

Noone likes to be told they made a mistake. That does not mean criticism should be avoided. And I don't really thing there is 'too much negativeness.' People are still hopeful about ME3. After ME1 people were in a 'god I hope it comes out soon!' mood. This time round they are still interested, but more on a 'we'll wait and see' basis.

There are no lynch mobs, merely concerned consumers.

Actually the way i see it, the people on the ME1 boards were alot less hostile than the current ones here and so far i see them not being hopeful at all for ME3 given that this is something they keep emphasizing on.

But I'm hopeful! I - I can be hopeful enough for like three people, at the very least!