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[Nightwriter]

Merlin 47 wrote...

And why were Paragon players FORCED to work with Cerberus?  It made no sense!  If it was shown that the Alliance and the Council really weren't willing to work with you, then sure, maybe I could buy it.  But no, it was assumed right from the get-go that you were working with Cerberus.

Oh, this. Definitely this.

Sometimes I wish I could un-remember having played ME1. Then I wouldn't notice this stuff.

[Iakus]

Turin_4 wrote...

Not, as I expect you know, anywhere near (relatively speaking) that cold:p.

Well, I'm not a science geek.  But I think we can at least agree that it's so cold that frotbite is the least of Shep's problems

This is a valid criticism, and something Bioware definitely should have handled better.  I hope their storytelling is better on subjects like these, though I went the orphaned war hero route for my shepard.  Goodness, that email from mom sounds dumb.  But honestly, though, in ME1, does your mother actually play much of a role at all?

In the game itself, not really.  You get to speak with her while doing the Spacer personal quest in ME 1, but that's all.  Still, it does establish that Shep is A)Still on good terms with his/her mother and Keeping in touch with her.  It would therefore, make sense that a mother, upon hearing that her child died two years ago, and learned is alive again, would have something more of a reaction that "Why haven't you called?"

Well, some of those easier and more logical explanations were on the way to being used en route to Shepard's death, bear in mind.  Specifically, the long-term mission outside Citadel space and discredited and pushed aside by the Council.  Remember how the game starts: the whitewashing has begun, and she's out on the ass-end of nowhere hunting Geth.  That's how the Collectors were able to so easily take a crack at her in the first place, remember?

Maybe the whitewashing has begun. Maybe not.   All we know is Shep's on a mission to clear out geth, and vessels had disappeared in that region recently. 

And while these explanations may have been "on the way"  They were made moot via Shep's death.  Death trumps all.  If they stuck to whitewashing/discrediting/shoving Shepard aside, that would be something else (assuming it was done logically, and I believe it could have been done so)

I agree, though that's not really what happened either.  She was a corpse for awhile, then getting worked on for I don't know how long - many many many months - and THEN killing armies of mercs and platoons of Collectors (I would have been happier if the proportions had been reversed).  But I'm sufficiently happy with Moridin's characterization that I'm not going to complain.  Seriously, we got a good look at a genuinely fleshed out angsty mad scientist in a video game.  Don't go Internet Critic crazy here!

Mordin is, in fact one of the best developed characters in the game.  Within the limits Bioware put on the squadmates.  While most of the squadmates are interesting concepts.  Mordin actually breaks through into an interesting character.  I illustrated that more as a slam against the incurious nature of the galaxy in general concerning Shepard's death and ressurection.  His ho-hum attitude about Shepard is most definitely not unique

It would be appropriate, I'm just picturing the reaction of the Internet Critic:)

I counted no less than four running gags in ME 2 already.  What's one more?  One that actually makes sense?

This right here.  A new bar has been set.  Now that it has, presumably ME3 will capitalize and improve upon it.  It's just, man, the things you're talking about...that's a lot of dialogue.  Not that I wouldn't love it, because I would!  But let's not kid ourselves that it would be magically easy, or cheap, or straightforward, or marketable to, y'know, the markets Bioware actually has to appeal to, which isn't us hardcore 3x+ replay guys like we are around here.

Perhaps not easy, or cheap.  Though i believe it would be marketable.  Every single Bioware game ever made that allowed more than one squadmate at a time had squad banter.  Even ME1 (though it was pretty light on banter.  One flaw of the original).  Every.  Single  One.  Except ME 2.  The game where they decided to do something different and make the squad the story.  According to interviews.

And what market is Bioware trying to appeal to with this game?  Please don't tell me it's to shooter crowds who don't like talky parts in games and would rather just  as one person put it "Get drunk, get laid, and shoot aliens".  Unlike some, I'm not so cynical as to think that's true.  And if you managed convince me it was, it would break my heart.

As I recall, in ME2 when you go on Cerberus assignments sometimes you get various intelligence that you can either keep for yourself, give to Cerberus, the public, or the Alliance.  You can send the Quarian back to the Quarians, give him to Cerberus, or something.  You can put down tIM in front of the crew even in a combat situation or not, and in meetings with him express hostility and distrust, or not.  And when push comes to shove, at the end of the game, you can basically say, "Screw you, screw this base, I'm blowing it up, stealing this enormously expesive state-of-the-art warship, AI, and formerly loyal crew of yours that I've suborned over the past few months."

Did anyone else not see the subtext there?  Who do you think Miranda, the 'Cerberus cheerleader', will be loyal to after her sister is saved?  Cerberus or Shepard?  If Cerberus wants to play hardball with Shepard in ME3, well there's EDI, who knows an [i]awful lot about Cerberus and tIM and who just likes Shepard and particularly Joker to pieces.  

As I recall, there was exactly one mission that involved Cerberus ionformation and what you could do with it.  You could send it to the Alliance, and that's it.  No angry TIM, no note from the Alliance.  Nothing.  Zip.  It's Hades' Dogs all over again. 

You could send the quarian back to the flotilla, decant Grunt, reactivate Legion.  TIM doesn't care.  Before teh base, the worst thing you can say to tim  is when he tells you of the derelict Reaper:

"The only reason I believe you on this is because I don't think you'd tryt the same trick again so soon"

Doesn't compare to:

"Commander, do you enjoy commiting genocide"?
"Depends on the species.  Turian"

Blowing up the base and leaving with the Normandy is the one and only truly "screw you" thing you can do to TIM.

Does having a loyal crew at the end of ME 2 really matter?  You had one in ME 1 and look where it gets you (blown up) Unfortunately, ME 2 has made me cynical enough to think that a loyalt crew going into  ME 3 will matter about as much as the Council's survival did  for ME 2

Modifié par iakus, 29 septembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Kavadas]

Moiaussi wrote...

What we have isn't the actual ammo. It acts like ammunition, but it is not the actual projectiles. We don't know how big the different modules are, but since the weapons are not any bigger regardless how they are outfitted, they could be very small. Remember that these are mass drivers and the actual projectiles are needle thin.

Yeah, I was kind of referencing the thermals clips here, not the block of metal that's shaving off projectiles.

Calibrations could be done automaticly, via connection to targetting systems in the armour, tieing in with a HUD. These are not 'modern' weapons. They are fictional in a world where complex foreign computer systems can be hacked at range.

The process can't be automated entirely.  Even if the weapon did the adjustments itself it would still require the user to actually fire some rounds down range to confirm a zero.

But is the reason for that neccessity? Or the lack of useful grenade types other than frag?

Both, the only other options are flashbangs and white phosphorous grenades but they're highly situational.

I was referring to the WWII style.

/shrug

They might still be manufactured but they are not used by the U.S. Army and I've never seen any jarheads with them either so I have to doubt the validity of that article.

They have may have been field tested or something... looks like that was probably the case.

I spent seven years activty duty with multiple deployments as 19D Cavalry Scout, deployed during the time that article referenced, and I've never heard of seen anything like that.

Standard issue breaching device are detcord pucks, C4, or that new fangled doohickey that's roughly man-sized and uses a long shaped charge.  It looks a shield... I forget the name of it.

Anyways, the assertion that this type of device is a "field modification" is disengenuous at worst, tenuous at best.  You're not modifying the rifle to use them.  You're not replacing a barrel, a grip, a buttstock, a trigger assembly, a bolt group, et cetera.

You're not modifying a single aspect of the rifle to accomodate the device.

Modifié par Kavadas, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:24 .

[Turin_4]

Yes of course,with consequences.This is roleplaying. Take away options is it not and force players to do something
isnt.
Human colonies were abducted for 2 years when shepardt was dead.One more doesnt lead to the end of the world.

Sometimes in roleplaying you're on rails.  I mean, you just are.  Even in the apparently sainted ME1 you were sometimes on rails.  Anyway, your last sentence is pretty odd-eventually it would lead to the end of the world.  C'mon.

At Horizon, the Collector vessel is a sitting duck on the ground.
Its shields are likely down due to the atmosphere and regardless, you
can have the cannon upgrade by then (via Garrus), which should be all
you need given the vessel cannot disengage from within the atmosphere.
More importantly, if there was something larger than the Normandy there
(such as an Alliance task force), it is a safe bet that they would have
had the neccessary firepower. The Thanx cannon only gives the Normandy
the equivalent of a cruiser's firepower, and it only took two shots to
take out said vessel later on at the Collector's base.. Presumably
multiple crusiers would have sufficient firepower to one-shot said
vessel. With said vessel taken out, the Collectors (and thus the
Reapers) would have been set back rather a while, colonies would have
been safe, and there would have been that much more time to find a way
to the collector's base. Regardless, given opening fire against a
stationary ship, the Normandy should have been able to take it out
alone.

Why would its shields be down due to the atmosphere?  Is there anything in ME1-2 codex information that makes that viable, or is it something that just sounds good?  It seems to me that the time when the Collector ship is a 'sitting duck' would be when it would have its shields up to me.  But anyway, even if it did have its shields down...they can be put up pretty quickly.  What does 'if there was something larger than an Alliance task force' have to do with anything?  It's a remote colony.  An alliance task force wasn't going to get out there.

You're completely armchair quarterbacking here, and I think you know it.  There is no what Shepard ought to have known, "OK, I've maybe got Garrus's nifty cannon upgrade now, so I can totally take on this Collector ship in a head to head fight one on one."

You seem to have missed the fact that the Turians did not send any such distress call. The call was fake. The Turians presumably would have known that. Again, if the Turians did
arrive first with a fleet, then they would also have had enough
firepower to take out the Collector vessel if/when it all went bad,
ending or at least seriously delaying the threat. The goal TIM's choice
serves is obvious. This way Cerberus gets any discoveries, regardless of
who it puts at risk. He is putting everything at risk just for personal
gain.

I'm not sure if that was ever made clear: if there was never any attack at all, or if there was, and tIM omited certain details.  I just played it, and I'm reading the wikia on the mission, and it's not entirely clear.  It would certainly be within Cerberus's capabilities to delay communications to the Turian Hierarchy, nopw wouldn't it?  If the Turians arrived first with a fleet, they could have destroyed the ship, yes...well, no, actually, they couldn't have, because of course it was playing possum, and it would have powered up at once and would have either destroyed that fleet and/or fled at once.  Again, you assume the Collectors have exactly one cruiser, an assumption I'm not sure why you cling to.  We've seen one, that's all we know.

I'm no fan of Cerberus and tIM, but let's face facts: the Salarians, Asari, and Turians collectively have not proven themselves trustworthy in terms of competence when handling the Reaper threat.

Again, you are missing the fact that TIM has set you up completely and
you have gone along with it. He leaked the information that Shepard had
joined Cerberus even before Shepard woke up from the ressurection. He
deliberately places the Cerberus logo on everything so that everyone
(especially the council) believe Shepard has switched allegences, and
deliberately withholds any information that could prove you are right
about the reapers or the threat. It is surprising that he doesn't have
the Vermire Survivor assassinated. I wouldn't be surprised if we find
out in ME3 that he tried, or at least considered it.

I'm not missing that fact, it's just one of the first real genuine criticisms you've leveled.  But by all means, ignore most of the things I mentioned in the line you're quoting when you respond to me, moiaussi.  Anyway, you're right, there really should have been an option for Shepard to object to the Cerberus brand being everywhere.  And when that (pretty reasoanbly, actually  - after all, they built it) went nowhere, there should be an option for her to emphatically tell everyone she meets, "This is because of the Reapers, and the Council isn't doing enough."

He only sends you after Tali after she is willing to accept that you are with Cerberus on Freedom's Progress. He does not send you to recruit Liara until he sees a chance to aquire the SB's network.

What?  He never sends you to 'acquire' the SB's network.  He sends you information to give to Liara to screw with the SB, but that's what Shepard would have done anyway.  As for Tali, I'm sure a Renegade could have kept the Quarian in the first mission and still gotten the recruit Tali mission later, so I suspect you're wrong there.  tIM is not a mustache-twirling villain.

We don't know that they would have. We definately have no reason to
conclude that an Alliance fleet couldn't have simply taken out the
Collector vessel if he had tipped Alliance command off too.

Distances.

If there is more than one cruiser, then there is likewise the
probability of more than one base, in which case, what, precisely has
Shepard accomplished? Even if there aren't other bases, other ships
could oversee the construction of other bases. Again, what has Shepard
accomplished?

Other bases =/ home base.

As for uniting pirates, pirates are just as much at risk as
everyone else. If nothing else, if colonies disappear, what is there
left to actually pirate? Reliability? Any less than the Council, whom
you seem to reject and Cerberus, who seems to set you up at every turn?
The Shadow Broker, who it turns out was much less neutral than his
reputation suggested? The Quarian Admirals, who would sell out their
best Geth expert for political points chasing a world no surviving
member of their race has seen, against an enemy that they cannot even
defeat in limited numbers on a small ship within their own
fleet? Everyone is unreliable under poor leadership. Unless someone
rallies everyone and

Why not just go to Earth, with the teeming billions of masses of poor, and unite them into an unstoppable military juggernaut?

[Turin_4]

And why were Paragon players FORCED to work with Cerberus?  It made
no sense!  If it was shown that the Alliance and the Council really
weren't willing to work with you, then sure, maybe I could buy it.  But
no, it was assumed right from the get-go that you were working with
Cerberus.

They could have done a better job of showing it, definitely, but they did show it: Shepard was out hunting Geth on the ass end of nowhere.  It's literally the very first thing that happens in the game, and what sets you up to be turned into a corpsicle.

Mordin is, in fact one of the best developed characters in the
game.  Within the limits Bioware put on the squadmates.  While most of
the squadmates are interesting concepts.  Mordin actually breaks through into an interesting character. 
I illustrated that more as a slam against the incurious nature of the
galaxy in general concerning Shepard's death and ressurection.  His
ho-hum attitude about Shepard is most definitely not unique../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

I agree that Moridin is one of the most interesting characters.  Strangely, though, given his background in science and even what we might consider mad science he might be one of the least interested in Shepard's death.

Perhaps not easy, or cheap.  Though i believe it would be
marketable.  Every single Bioware game ever made that allowed more than
one squadmate at a time had squad banter.  Even ME1 (though it was
pretty light on banter.  One flaw of the original).  Every.  Single 
One.  Except ME 2.  The game where they decided to do something
different and make the squad the story.  According to interviews.

So, wait, you're telling me they failed in that concept because they didn't include squad banter even though they did include the concept of the suicide mission, loyalty missions, and members-vs.-members in a few circumstances?  C'mon, man, you're going over the top.

[Iakus]

Turin_4 wrote...

So, wait, you're telling me they failed in that concept because they didn't include squad banter even though they did include the concept of the suicide mission, loyalty missions, and members-vs.-members in a few circumstances?  C'mon, man, you're going over the top.

I don't think I am.

The suicide missions itself was an interesting idea, but overall was just...okay...The choices made were asburdly easy, and you only really needed a few of the squad members.  Plus "loyalty" turned out to be a simple on/off switch for whether they died or not.  And there's exactly two arguments.  One each Jack/Miranda and Tali/Legion.  I expected to be breaking up fights between Jack and Miranda pretty much every time I got back on board the Normandy.

Squad banter adds a third dimension.  Sure they interact with Shepard, but they don't interact with their enviroment much, or other people at all.  They certainly don't interact with the missions they're on.  Like I said in a previous post, what do other squad members have to say about killing Sidonis?  How do they feel about TIM setting them up with the Collector Ship trap?  It's these things, and the lack of interactivity between them, that keeps them as interesting concepts, but overall flat characters.  Windup toys

[Iakus]

Turin_4 wrote...


Distances.

If there is more than one cruiser, then there is likewise the
probability of more than one base, in which case, what, precisely has
Shepard accomplished? Even if there aren't other bases, other ships
could oversee the construction of other bases. Again, what has Shepard
accomplished?

Other bases =/ home base.

It is my belief that a much better ending to ME 2 would be hHepard learning that this was not, in fact, the Collector home base.  Cut to some other base in an unknown area in the galaxy, where another group of Collectors are building what appears to be a duplicate Citadel: another dark space relay.   Cut to credits, see you in ME 3!

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Both Mass Effect games had their strong and weak points when compared to the other. Mass Effect 1 had a more solidified storyline and you got to have your team mates earlyier in the game. However the machanics of the combat system were inferiror when compared to ME2.



Mass Effect 2 focuse alot more on the characters that you were around and you got to know them alot more than you ever did in ME1 which is something that I love because in ME1 I felt that only Wrex had any kind of character in the game at all. The fight machanics are better than ME1 by a mile however the story is a little less lineror however I don't think that it takes away from the game.



Now lets talk about cinematics. Both games had impressive opening for the game however I felt the shock of seeing the Normandy being destroyed and then seeing Shepard burning up in the atmosphere was a complete shock. Then seeing his destroyed body being brought back was also cool. ME1 had the supperior final mission because we also got a cool space battle inside the arms of the Citidel. However ME2 had the best ending I've ever seen in a game. Shepard looking out into the darkness of space knowing what's out there then we see a shot of Dark Space and then it suddenly lights up with the presence of hundreds of Reapers and they're on their way.



So as far as I'm concerned ME1<ME2

[smudboy]

Just watched an episode of Stargate Universe. I liked their synth motifs in the music. It's something ME had that ME2 seems to lack. Not to say the music in ME2 is bad, it's just a different quality.

[Moiaussi]

Kavadas wrote...

The process can't be automated entirely.  Even if the weapon did the adjustments itself it would still require the user to actually fire some rounds down range to confirm a zero.

Sure it can. In fact it can be compensated for on the fly with each round, thus compensating for local environmental variables. Each round fired provides data for a new zero.

Both, the only other options are flashbangs and white phosphorous grenades but they're highly situational.

Which is my point, they are not generally useful enough to carry around constantly.

They might still be manufactured but they are not used by the U.S. Army and I've never seen any jarheads with them either so I have to doubt the validity of that article.

They have may have been field tested or something... looks like that was probably the case.

I spent seven years activty duty with multiple deployments as 19D Cavalry Scout, deployed during the time that article referenced, and I've never heard of seen anything like that.

Standard issue breaching device are detcord pucks, C4, or that new fangled doohickey that's roughly man-sized and uses a long shaped charge.  It looks a shield... I forget the name of it.

Dunno... one of the corporate sites had a statement that the weapon is recently classified.

Anyways, the assertion that this type of device is a "field modification" is disengenuous at worst, tenuous at best.  You're not modifying the rifle to use them.  You're not replacing a barrel, a grip, a buttstock, a trigger assembly, a bolt group, et cetera.

You're not modifying a single aspect of the rifle to accomodate the device.

The question is how big a modification the ME changes are. If the weapons are sufficiently modular, then the changes shouldn't be that much of an issue. Many of them aren't actual barrel changes, and even those that are could be pre-calibrated (at base) then adjusted automaticly on the fly as I suggested above.

[Xeranx]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Mass Effect 2 focuse alot more on the characters that you were around and you got to know them alot more than you ever did in ME1 which is something that I love because in ME1 I felt that only Wrex had any kind of character in the game at all. The fight machanics are better than ME1 by a mile however the story is a little less lineror however I don't think that it takes away from the game.

So finding out that Ashley has family that she's close to isn't good?  What about the fact that she left a station she was on to walk her sister to school after her sister was dealing with an overzealous boyfriend and that walking her sister to school wasn't a one time occurrence? 

Tali (the grand Quarian codex as she's snidely titled) gives you so much information so she can tell you her father is part of the Admiralty on the Floatilla.  You never got the sense that she feels pressure to do right by her father because of his position?  It brings to light her resolve if you remember all that she went through before joining your squad especially the fight in the alley.  She made the first move to defend herself.  You don't get that she's strong-willed and strong period?  Just an aside, but that's the one thing I hate about her depiction in ME2.  To go from what she was in ME1 and become this oh so frail creature in ME2 even if they give you a glimpse of what she was like in ME1 with the battle of Haestrom.

Kaidan gives you an idea that he's been a stand-up individual since he was a kid.  Imagine being a kid in BAaT after the First Contact war and finding yourself being trained by a Turian (your former enemy) who shows no love for humans in the slightest.  Then imagine standing up to said Turian when he begins hurting someone over something as trivial as picking up a glass of water with their hand instead of biotics.

After all that you really think Wrex is the only individual who showed any character?

Now lets talk about cinematics. Both games had impressive opening for the game however I felt the shock of seeing the Normandy being destroyed and then seeing Shepard burning up in the atmosphere was a complete shock. Then seeing his destroyed body being brought back was also cool. ME1 had the supperior final mission because we also got a cool space battle inside the arms of the Citidel. However ME2 had the best ending I've ever seen in a game. Shepard looking out into the darkness of space knowing what's out there then we see a shot of Dark Space and then it suddenly lights up with the presence of hundreds of Reapers and they're on their way.

So as far as I'm concerned ME1<ME2

Shepard has an idea of what's out there, but he/she could very well be wrong.  I hope that when the reapers arrive that people and not just the characters we work with express concern, fear...something that gives serious weight to what we're supposed to see.  Having an idea about what you'll face is different from actually seeing it.  My example would be "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" when you saw them in their small round ship and all of a sudden you get this massive cruiser(?) just come out of hyperspace.   I remember thinking [insert your own exclamation here] .
 
The ominous tone of the last scene would have been better if the story had been more cohesive.  Because it isn't the last scene is a: "That should be an 'OH S---!' moment."  

[Kavadas]

Moiaussi wrote...

Sure it can. In fact it can be compensated for on the fly with each round, thus compensating for local environmental variables. Each round fired provides data for a new zero.

Right.... the weapon has to actually be fired to confirm a zero so unless you want rifles going off by themselves then the process isn't automated, is it?

A computer could certainly think a mechanical zero has been achieved but it's not confirmed until rounds are actually fired.

If the weapons are sufficiently modular, then the changes shouldn't be that much of an issue.

The simple fact that almost every weapon in ME2 has a different manufacturer strongly precludes the chance any of them share modular mechanical workings, wouldn't you agree?

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Kavadas wrote...

Right.... the weapon has to actually be fired to confirm a zero so unless you want rifles going off by themselves then the process isn't automated, is it?

A computer could certainly think a mechanical zero has been achieved but it's not confirmed until rounds are actually fired.

These are ultra high velocity rounds, so zero probably has a smaller deviation. The weapon could be recalibrated with the first real round (especially for the higher rate of fire weapons).

[quote]The simple fact that almost every weapon in ME2 has a different manufacturer strongly precludes the chance any of them share modular mechanical workings, wouldn't you agree?[/quote]

Actually no. If that was true, then we wouldn't be able to customize anywhere near so easily. We wouldn't just need scram rails, but we would need the correct manufacturer's scram rails.

[Lunatic LK47]

Xeranx wrote...

So finding out that Ashley has family that she's close to isn't good?  What about the fact that she left a station she was on to walk her sister to school after her sister was dealing with an overzealous boyfriend and that walking her sister to school wasn't a one time occurrence?

Thing is what is it that makes Ash herself stand out from the rest of the characters? I've already met a lot of people like her and said to myself, "Same ****, different day. How is she different from everyone I met?"

Tali (the grand Quarian codex as she's snidely titled) gives you so much information so she can tell you her father is part of the Admiralty on the Floatilla.  You never got the sense that she feels pressure to do right by her father because of his position?  It brings to light her resolve if you remember all that she went through before joining your squad especially the fight in the alley.  She made the first move to defend herself.  You don't get that she's strong-willed and strong period?  Just an aside, but that's the one thing I hate about her depiction in ME2.  To go from what she was in ME1 and become this oh so frail creature in ME2 even if they give you a glimpse of what she was like in ME1 with the battle of Haestrom.

She is nothing more than a codex entry. You don't find out much about Tali as a person *AT ALL* other than the throw-away line about being pressured by daddy. Does she have any personal likes, dislikes, personal fears? None of that was even aired *AT ALL.* It's basically the equivalent of meeting a gamer chick who only says "I like to play video games" and learning nothing else about her.

Kaidan gives you an idea that he's been a stand-up individual since he was a kid.  Imagine being a kid in BAaT after the First Contact war and finding yourself being trained by a Turian (your former enemy) who shows no love for humans in the slightest.  Then imagine standing up to said Turian when he begins hurting someone over something as trivial as picking up a glass of water with their hand instead of biotics.

I don't have a problem with the stories themselves, but i really had a hard time with the writing. No one in real life would remotely talk like Kaidan.

After all that you really think Wrex is the only individual who showed any character?

Thing is, I've been in Wrex's shoes already. I nearly commited patricide on my ex-step-father just to defend mom. Rule number one for writing characters. If you can't relate to any of them whatsoever in real life, your story is going to fail.

[tonnactus]

iakus wrote...

Squad banter adds a third dimension.  Sure they interact with Shepard, but they don't interact with their enviroment much, or other people at all. 

I am playing Dragon Age at the moment. Despite inferior graphics,the characters seem to be far more alive then in Mass
Effect 2 by miles.They talk with each other,some of them could even choose to fight the main character when some critical decisions were made. Mass Effect 2 is a joke as a so called character driven game.

[Talthanar]

my only gripe is the lack of adding armor/weapon parts and the forced use of the thermal clip system. nowhere in ME lore does it say that thermal clips are the only way to cool weapons. Really what needed to happen was a hybrid system of the first and second games. thermal clips for the intense combat scenarios and regular 'air' cooling for the rest of the time would have been peachy.



the armor mods would have been nice too. I prefer the N7 armor but why am I forced into the helmet giving a +x% modifier. makes no sense. If I have an N7 with combat optics that should give me X increased accuracy.

[achwas]

themark443 wrote...

-Ammunition is a power? Strange...I always thought ammunition was just ammunition. I play mostly as an infiltrator and if anyone else has, disruptor rounds and cryo rounds just don't cut it (IMO). The only two useful powers are cloak and incinerate. If ammo wasn't thrown in as a power, give em at least 2 powers that were used in the first game like overload and damping (which would at least give the infiltrator class some extra punch against enemies with shields and barriers). On a random note, I miss Sledgehammer rounds.

Oh really, "disruptor" ammunition does not cut it ? I beg to severely disagree - was shooting everything in that mode for most of my first playthrough (until I picked armour piercing rounds as my additional training... then I found myself constantly switiching between both modes) . Also highly useful to balast a shield with a ddisruptor-SMG burst, then headshot through the remaining layers of defense.

Same goes for Cryo ammunition - with a high rate of fire weapon (say, an SMG perchance ?) a tremendous tool for Crowd Control.

YMMV, but as for the Infiltrator, the powers were very well designed and useful.  And a far handier system than digging through a clunky inventory looking for the "proper" set of ammunition

On the whole, the ammo and heatsink system actually made me change weapons all the time, conserving precious sniping heat-sinks and fending off trash (such as husk) with my sidearm. That some weapons are (almost ridculously so)  better than others - like the Mattock-AR and the Widow-sniper only makes it more interesting. One of the real improvements of ME-2

Modifié par achwas, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Kavadas]

Moiaussi wrote...

These are ultra high velocity rounds, so zero probably has a smaller deviation. The weapon could be recalibrated with the first real round (especially for the higher rate of fire weapons).

Thanks for admitting I was correct, LOL.

Aside from that you keep glossing over the fact that mechanical zero =/= operator zero.  The weapon could fire as true as photon of light but that doesn't mean the trajectory corresponds to the operator's site picture.  That will always and forever take operator input to correct unless the need to utilize weapon sights mounted on the weapon itself is removed entirely.

Actually no. If that was true, then we wouldn't be able to customize anywhere near so easily. We wouldn't just need scram rails, but we would need the correct manufacturer's scram rails.

Since there is no weapon customization in ME2 I have no idea what you're referring to.

Anyways, I'm not making any more concessions for your "hypotheticals" which have little basis in either ME2 mechanics or game lore.

These weapons manufacturers aren't even of the same species, let alone nation, so while I'll concede the probability of of these arms manufacturers all agreeing on unified modular component sytem is greater than zero that in no way insinuates anything which resembles probable.

Furthermore, "modularity" absolutely does not imply expedient, let alone field expedient, so I'm not sure why you think that since multiple devices can share a common component that they installation process is something that can be done in the middle of a firefight; that's just you projecting personal connotations on the word.

Anyways, you'll just go on and on forever if I keep replying and I made my point posts and posts ago so the thread is yours, enjoy.

Modifié par Kavadas, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:23 .

[Iakus]

[quote]Lunatic LK47 wrote...


Thing is what is it that makes Ash herself stand out from the rest of the characters? I've already met a lot of people like her and said to myself, "Same ****, different day. How is she different from everyone I met?"[/quote]

That's just it.  Ashley, Kaiden and the others are people.  Exceptional at what they do, flawed in their personalities,  Ordinary people in an extraordinary circumstance.  And they rise to the occassion. 

Ashley is a tempermental woman.  Tough, independant, opinionated, fiercely protective of friends and loved ones.  Trying to get by in a career her family has been blacklisted in for three generations.  She's suspicious of aliens, because the First Contact War was what ruined her family name to begin with and she's never had an opportunity to work with them.  She is determined to prove herself to the rest of the people and restore her family name. 

Are there people out there like her?  I'm sure there are.  People who like "persons", but distrust "people"  Individuals who go through life with a chip on their shoulder.  Suspicious.  Outspoken.  You may not like them personally, but can be sure they'll have your back in a crisis.

[quote]



[quote]Tali (the grand Quarian codex as she's snidely titled) gives you so much information so she can tell you her father is part of the Admiralty on the Floatilla.  You never got the sense that she feels pressure to do right by her father because of his position?  It brings to light her resolve if you remember all that she went through before joining your squad especially the fight in the alley.  She made the first move to defend herself.  You don't get that she's strong-willed and strong period?  Just an aside, but that's the one thing I hate about her depiction in ME2.  To go from what she was in ME1 and become this oh so frail creature in ME2 even if they give you a glimpse of what she was like in ME1 with the battle of Haestrom. [/quote]


She is nothing more than a codex entry. You don't find out much about Tali as a person *AT ALL* other than the throw-away line about being pressured by daddy. Does she have any personal likes, dislikes, personal fears? None of that was even aired *AT ALL.* It's basically the equivalent of meeting a gamer chick who only says "I like to play video games" and learning nothing else about her.[/quote]

Tali is the least well-drawn of the original crew.  But you still pick up a few other things about her. 

I saw  Tali as a kid away from home for the first time.  She's intimidated and amazed at the galaxy around her.  Yes she's been taught about the outside world.  She knows and how to fight, and has a variety of skills.  But she's on her own for the first time ever.  There's a difference between theory and reality.  She's lonely and talks about home and family a lot.  OVerall, I got a "kid sister" vibe around her (maybe why I find this whole Talimancer thing slightly disturbing )

[quote]



[quote]Kaidan gives you an idea that he's been a stand-up individual since he was a kid.  Imagine being a kid in BAaT after the First Contact war and finding yourself being trained by a Turian (your former enemy) who shows no love for humans in the slightest.  Then imagine standing up to said Turian when he begins hurting someone over something as trivial as picking up a glass of water with their hand instead of biotics.[/quote]
I don't have a problem with the stories themselves, but i really had a hard time with the writing. No one in real life would remotely talk like Kaidan.
[/quote]

Interesting, given Kaiden is the character I most closely identify with.  In either game.  No I don't get migraines, nor have I broken anyone's neck with a kick (or otherwise), nor do I have anything resembling telekinetic powers

[quote]

[quote]After all that you really think Wrex is the only individual who showed any character?

Thing is, I've been in Wrex's shoes already. I nearly commited patricide on my ex-step-father just to defend mom. Rule number one for writing characters. If you can't relate to any of them whatsoever in real life, your story is going to fail.
[/quote]

[/quote]
And yet of the characters in ME 1 felt more "real" to me than most of the ones in ME 2[/quote]

Modifié par iakus, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Revan312]

But that's the thing Lunatic LK47, some of us enjoy realism over bombastic "I'm an uber badass.." characters. Samara, Tali, Mordin and Thane were about the only ones that didn't have overt cliche action movie lines (though Thane was a pure hollywood "assassin monk" stereotype). Most of the crew constantly spoke in a way that exuded over confidence and they just seemed to come off as dicks. This applies to Shepard as well, as even many of the Paragon responses were filled with renegade sounding "I'm so cool" lines.



I really liked the fact that ME1 had characters that I found realistic. They weren't over the top or caricatures of a single personality disorder. Everyone in ME2 is a borderline/narcissist which completely put me off.

[Turin_4]

And yet of the characters in ME 1 felt more "real" to me than most of the ones in ME 2

Really? Kaidan felt more real to you in ME1 than Jacob did in ME2, just as a for-instance? That's an example of a fair comparison, since of course we can't compare Tali to Tali, since in ME2 there's more story there, we need to compare one character in ME2 who didn't show in ME1, who doesn't show in ME2 (or almost not at all).

[Revan312]

Turin_4 wrote...

Really? Kaidan felt more real to you in ME1 than Jacob did in ME2, just as a for-instance? That's an example of a fair comparison, since of course we can't compare Tali to Tali, since in ME2 there's more story there, we need to compare one character in ME2 who didn't show in ME1, who doesn't show in ME2 (or almost not at all).

Jacob is a Cerberus apologist that has strong opinions but never exercises them, which makes him look like a coward to me. At least Miranda stays pretty consistent in her adoration of Cerby, Jacob however is cognitive dissonance at it's best

"Oh I hate what Cerberus did, but they're different now and I had nothing to do with those experiments so....... can you help me with my dad?"

He's a shallow yes man that only serves to take up the minority spot on the team. Also his random hatred of Thane for being an Assassin even though he works for an organization that performed horrific research under the banner of pro human progression is even more ludicrous..
Just my opinion though

[Jaysonie]

Revan312 wrote...

Turin_4 wrote...

Really? Kaidan felt more real to you in ME1 than Jacob did in ME2, just as a for-instance? That's an example of a fair comparison, since of course we can't compare Tali to Tali, since in ME2 there's more story there, we need to compare one character in ME2 who didn't show in ME1, who doesn't show in ME2 (or almost not at all).

Jacob is a Cerberus apologist that has strong opinions but never exercises them, which makes him look like a coward to me. At least Miranda stays pretty consistent in her adoration of Cerby, Jacob however is cognitive dissonance at it's best

"Oh I hate what Cerberus did, but they're different now and I had nothing to do with those experiments so....... can you help me with my dad?"

He's a shallow yes man that only serves to take up the minority spot on the team. Also his random hatred of Thane for being an Assassin even though he works for an organization that performed horrific research under the banner of pro human progression is even more ludicrous..
Just my opinion though

Dosent that make him more of a realistic character though, with his conflicting beliefs.

Modifié par Jaysonie, 29 septembre 2010 - 09:51 .

[Moiaussi]

Turin_4 wrote...

Why would its shields be down due to the atmosphere?  Is there anything in ME1-2 codex information that makes that viable, or is it something that just sounds good?  It seems to me that the time when the Collector ship is a 'sitting duck' would be when it would have its shields up to me.  But anyway, even if it did have its shields down...they can be put up pretty quickly.  What does 'if there was something larger than an Alliance task force' have to do with anything?  It's a remote colony.  An alliance task force wasn't going to get out there.

You're completely armchair quarterbacking here, and I think you know it.  There is no what Shepard ought to have known, "OK, I've maybe got Garrus's nifty cannon upgrade now, so I can totally take on this Collector ship in a head to head fight one on one."

I stand corrected on the shields. That said, the ship was there, an easy target, and in a situation where if it went badly the Normandy could easily disengage, no second guessing there. To never engage an enemy seems as problematic as to engage only when desperate.

As for an Alliance task force, Ashley was deployed there and with a tip (which TIM refused to allow) they would have had reason to respond. What is the point of going to the expense of arming colonies if you aren't interested in defending them? Also the fleet would have been coming to the colony's rescue, earning political points with the colony.

I'm not sure if that was ever made clear: if there was never any attack at all, or if there was, and tIM omited certain details.  I just played it, and I'm reading the wikia on the mission, and it's not entirely clear.  It would certainly be within Cerberus's capabilities to delay communications to the Turian Hierarchy, nopw wouldn't it?  If the Turians arrived first with a fleet, they could have destroyed the ship, yes...well, no, actually, they couldn't have, because of course it was playing possum, and it would have powered up at once and would have either destroyed that fleet and/or fled at once.  Again, you assume the Collectors have exactly one cruiser, an assumption I'm not sure why you cling to.  We've seen one, that's all we know.

I'm no fan of Cerberus and tIM, but let's face facts: the Salarians, Asari, and Turians collectively have not proven themselves trustworthy in terms of competence when handling the Reaper threat.

EDI made it clear that the distress call was fake. If there was an attack, why wouldn't the Turians investigate, distress call or not? And if TIM didn't block the transmission (how do you block such a transmission anyway without a ship near?) then the Turians would presumably have realized it was fake, and might suddenly have had reason to consider the threat real, and to take Shepard seriously.

With TIM withholding important information, and deliberately keeping the other races out of the loop, he is ensuring that they have no reason to prepare for the coming threat.

That might be good writing of TIM, but it is bad writing that Shepard just accepts it all. When they are set up for an ambush on the Collector ship and even Jacob and Miranda are questioning their loyalty, Shep still doesn't break away.

I'm not missing that fact, it's just one of the first real genuine criticisms you've leveled.  But by all means, ignore most of the things I mentioned in the line you're quoting when you respond to me, moiaussi.  Anyway, you're right, there really should have been an option for Shepard to object to the Cerberus brand being everywhere.  And when that (pretty reasoanbly, actually  - after all, they built it) went nowhere, there should be an option for her to emphatically tell everyone she meets, "This is because of the Reapers, and the Council isn't doing enough."

There should also be an option to simply get the ship repainted. Again, though the fact that Shepard just accepts all this makes immersion harder.

What?  He never sends you to 'acquire' the SB's network.  He sends you information to give to Liara to screw with the SB, but that's what Shepard would have done anyway.  As for Tali, I'm sure a Renegade could have kept the Quarian in the first mission and still gotten the recruit Tali mission later, so I suspect you're wrong there.  tIM is not a mustache-twirling villain.

Until he offers that info, he doesn't even suggest Liara. He still tells you it was unexpected that Tali is cooperative. Before that he tells Shepard that she, like the other former crew, are not available and will not even tell Shepard where to contact them, even as a friend.

Distances.

And your answer explains TIM deliberately withholding information, how? If friendly ships were too distant to respond, then why the need to withhold the information from them?

Other bases =/ home base.

And we know that we hit the home base... how? It had one cruiser assigned to it. Where are all the other Collector ships based? We know there are others. That ship was identified as Collector, but an unknown hull, despite there being other encounters with said race in the past.

Why not just go to Earth, with the teeming billions of masses of poor, and unite them into an unstoppable military juggernaut?

What, you figure Shepard should lead some sort of anti-alliance revolution to set Cerberus up as government or something?

The Earth is already united (under the Alliance) and are already rebuilding fleets lost at the Citadel? If the fleets had already rebuilt and then stopped I would agree with you. The only degree to which the Council races could be 'convinced' further is forstalled by Shepards inexplicable nigh absolute acceptance of TIM.

[Moiaussi]

Kavadas wrote...

Thanks for admitting I was correct, LOL.

Aside from that you keep glossing over the fact that mechanical zero =/= operator zero.  The weapon could fire as true as photon of light but that doesn't mean the trajectory corresponds to the operator's site picture.  That will always and forever take operator input to correct unless the need to utilize weapon sights mounted on the weapon itself is removed entirely.

These aren't mechanical sights that we are discussing. These are digital sights, which should be tied into a hud. The system could even be designed with a built in digital keratometer and adjust specificly to the firer's eyes.

Since there is no weapon customization in ME2 I have no idea what you're referring to.

Comparason of the ME1 system vs. ME2.

Anyways, I'm not making any more concessions for your "hypotheticals" which have little basis in either ME2 mechanics or game lore.

These weapons manufacturers aren't even of the same species, let alone nation, so while I'll concede the probability of of these arms manufacturers all agreeing on unified modular component sytem is greater than zero that in no way insinuates anything which resembles probable.

Furthermore, "modularity" absolutely does not imply expedient, let alone field expedient, so I'm not sure why you think that since multiple devices can share a common component that they installation process is something that can be done in the middle of a firefight; that's just you projecting personal connotations on the word.

Anyways, you'll just go on and on forever if I keep replying and I made my point posts and posts ago so the thread is yours, enjoy.

Look, there was this game called Mass Effect which had certain mechanics. They changed those mechanics in ME2. Just because they changed them in ME2 doesn't mean they didn't exist in ME1. Saying the ME1 mechanics don't make sense to you is fair game, but it is a bit out of line to act like ME1 didn't exist at all.