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Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion. Volume 2


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#1551
Slayer299

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I don't understand that Skilled Seeker, how does a mission complete screen make you feel like you've achieved anything? All it tells you is the money/minerals found, you already knew what the results of your mission were before the MCS popped up.

The acknowledgement that the mission was complete. I like tackling things in bitesized portions. And the nice little summary of what you did written by the Illusive man.


You mean you didn't know the mission was complete *before* the MCS or what you'd done? So I don't understand how TIM's little summary could mean all that much...

#1552
Googlesaurus

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Slayer299 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I don't understand that Skilled Seeker, how does a mission complete screen make you feel like you've achieved anything? All it tells you is the money/minerals found, you already knew what the results of your mission were before the MCS popped up.

The acknowledgement that the mission was complete. I like tackling things in bitesized portions. And the nice little summary of what you did written by the Illusive man.


You mean you didn't know the mission was complete *before* the MCS or what you'd done? So I don't understand how TIM's little summary could mean all that much...


It's Seeker's personal preference. Let's not start swinging fists. :police:

#1553
OneDrunkMonk

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Of course video games have their limitations. I suppose it's nitpicking to expect more of a reaction out of squad mates. However there was the implication by the Devs pre-launch that there would be a little more management of your squads varying personalities. That is aside from the Jack-Miranda scene and the single confrontation of Tali and Legion. It's kinda my hope for ME3 that your squad members have a little more to sway as to how situations are dealt with.

#1554
Skilled Seeker

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Slayer299 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I don't understand that Skilled Seeker, how does a mission complete screen make you feel like you've achieved anything? All it tells you is the money/minerals found, you already knew what the results of your mission were before the MCS popped up.

The acknowledgement that the mission was complete. I like tackling things in bitesized portions. And the nice little summary of what you did written by the Illusive man.


You mean you didn't know the mission was complete *before* the MCS or what you'd done? So I don't understand how TIM's little summary could mean all that much...

I just like seeing what he has to say about it, a fresh perspective and all that Image IPB And I mean everyone likes it when others mention their accomplishments. Lets you know that what you're doing matters and you are being appreciated for it. The picture is pretty epic too. I could stare at it for hours... Image IPB

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 13 novembre 2010 - 10:52 .


#1555
Skilled Seeker

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OneDrunkMonk wrote...

Of course video games have their limitations. I suppose it's nitpicking to expect more of a reaction out of squad mates. However there was the implication by the Devs pre-launch that there would be a little more management of your squads varying personalities. That is aside from the Jack-Miranda scene and the single confrontation of Tali and Legion. It's kinda my hope for ME3 that your squad members have a little more to sway as to how situations are dealt with.

I agree with this more intersquad interaction is a plus. There was going to be a Grunt Mordin and Jacob Thane confrontation as well but they got cut. You can hear the dialogue for the Grunt Mordin one on youtube. Would have been nice if they stayed in if only so it didn't seem that only females cant keep a level head and put aside differences Image IPB

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 13 novembre 2010 - 10:51 .


#1556
Bryy_Miller

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You know, I've noticed something. The people who dislike ME2 on the ME2 forums are much more civil than the people on the DA2 forums.

#1557
Skilled Seeker

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ME2 has been out for a while so most of the trolls have gotten bored and left. DA2 is yet to be released so its prime troll bait.

#1558
Elite Midget

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If they want to make Squadmates be more responsive than they need to shrink the Squad size and have Characters follow pre-defined paths.



Such as if you bring a Krogan and a Souless Mercenary on a Mission and you have a choice on whether to kill a Criminal or not both should push for killing. I don't want the contradictions that ME1 and ME2 had.



Such as Miranda and the Collector Base or Liara telling me to kill the Council.

#1559
Skilled Seeker

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Yeah especially when everyone hates you if you save the Collector base despite them telling you to save it if you bring them along.

#1560
InfiniteCuts

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

I pretty much universally disagree with EVERYTHING you have said. And I did read your entire post.
 
What does this mean? That different people have different opinions and there is no right and wrong in art. I'm not a big fan of Van Goth but you don't see me trolling his art at museums, calling his work crap. So if its not for your tastes then I suggest you leave.

Since because Bioware is a company they will go with what was more successful whch is ME2. If you are hoping for a retro recede in ME3 it won't happen.

Have a nice day.


Looser panties... you'll live longer and might even enjoy yourself in the process.  My post is not meant solely for you, so don't tell me where or when I can share my opinion on this forum.  I've been at this longer than you have.  I don't state the things in my post as fact... I just back them up with examples.  So your defensiveness says more about you than any difference in opinion we might have.  This idea that only praise can be expressed on the forums... especially in a thread called "Disappointment With Mass Effect 2?", is ridiculous.  Go play white knight / armchair BioWare employee in any number of the threads praising ME2.  Or you can... you know, contribute.

:whistle:

#1561
FireEye

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InfiniteCuts wrote...

Some of the key aspects of Mass Effect, aside from plot, that were superior to their counterparts in the sequel:

Scale - ME is just a larger game in both perspective, space and narrative. Hub worlds were larger and seamless with the use of a few elevators, which served as perfect time for squad banter, news, etc. Combat environments were varied in ME1, offering both CQC and large open battlefields. Enclosed combat spaces were repetitive, and they took the right steps to correct this in ME2, while sacrificing open spaces. Most places in ME2 felt cramped, including the "larger" SR2. The Citadel was reduced to a few rooms and a mini-mall. Even the galaxy had a larger feel to it as we were dealing with a sense of discovery that was lost in ME2. Overall, Mass Effect was a larger game than Mass Effect 2.

Physics - ME2 is incredibly "heavier" than its predecessor. Shepard's movement in ME2 felt awkward and sluggish, as if he/she was crippled somehow. There was a greater sense of speed and freedom in movement in ME1. Count me as one of the few that actually prefer moving into cover with the thumbsticks than having to press a button. It felt more intuitive and didn't place all of the focus on cover mechanics. Basically, **** cover if it's the only way you're going to survive combat in a game. It's been said many times before, but there are other games that cater to this style of play and do it much better. Bring back the kind of ranged, tactical combat that can benefit from but not absolutely require the use of cover. Also, who in their right mind doesn't miss the ragdoll physics of ME? As an infiltrator, I actually feel sorry for biotics this time around. How you guys have managed to remain relatively quiet while losing so much of what made your powers great in ME is beyond me.

Art - ME1's art style was more refined and didn't try too hard to impress with neon lights and dark colors. More specifically, armor, despite not being as customizable as in ME2, was head and shoulders above anything offered there. Light/Medium/Heavy armor for each race with fairly distinctive design qualities between them. Meanwhile, ME2 offers the ability to mix and match armor pieces, but most pieces just look cumbersome and plain ugly. Life Support Webbings, Death Mask, Collector Armor... anyone? Environments were also treated with more refinement and creativity in ME1. The Citadel with all its different locales and how they all come together seamlessly, Virmire with its beaches and tropical setting, Ilos... the alien vegetation, prothean artifacts and the bunker levels. Noveria with it's isolated and sterile atmosphere. I could go on and on how each of these locations stand out on their own and all come together to create a compelling world. There is very little of this in ME2. Instead they tried to impress us with light and color combinations, while not putting as much thought into the overall feel of the environment. ME2 levels were designed either for you to get from point a to b or to provide adequate cover for the obvious fight that is coming, whereas ME has levels that were created on their own merits, in which you might have to fight or just explore.

Audio - Ambient sound and music played a more important role in Mass Effect. Nearly everywhere you went, there was some memorable piece of music or soundscape to accompany you. Sounds of battle on Feros, varying levels of wind on the planets, quasar machines at Flux... there are tons of examples in ME1 where the environment's sound combined with music really draw you into the world. This is sort of an afterthought in ME2, or just doesn't quite have the same effect. My guess is because of the shift from the well-suited synthesized style of the original in favor of more orchestral, contemporary themes. And there is very little ambient sound in ME2... mostly just humming sounds and chatter. ME1 excels in this department as well.

Animation - ME2 character animation was exaggerated and had Shepard looking quite the fool at times. I winced everytime he'd do his little arm fold gangster-lean while trying to express disapproval. Femshep was beyond awkward with her mannerisms. Facial animation somehow managed to regress over what we've previously seen. Even enemies took a hit as they lost much of the ragdoll effects from the first game and instead had scripted overeactions to gunfire. Also, biotics lost some of the interesting gestures they made while casting different powers in the original.

There are quite a few of these nuanced aspects to the game that most people don't take the time to consider when comparing both games. There is something to be said for subtlety, BioWare.


I agree with all of this, although you articulated it better than I ever could.

Although I'm surprised about the physics - I thought I was the only one.  :o

Modifié par FireEye, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:31 .


#1562
Iakus

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Lumikki wrote...

iakus wrote...

We should have had talks and teamwork throughout the game, not just at the end.  It needs to be demonstrated how these indivuals, brought together by Shepard, now trust each other as much as they do him/her.  Instead what we have is a dozen gunslingers, individually loyal to Shepard.  Not a team.

I don't need to trust my fellow workers in work to do my job or practise team work. Only thing required is that I know that they know how to do they own jobs and I know my job. My point, you seem to have this extreme need for personal connections between people. It's way too emotional to feel real. I don't mean that there isn't team work like what you say, because there is. But it's not required to happen allways, it's just what you want to happen.



Trust is exactly what you need.  Miranda has to trust that Jack won't shoot her in the back during a firefight.  Jacob has to trust that Zaed won't go off on his own and do something stupid and get people killed.  Thane has to trust that Jacob won't hesitate to cover him in a gunfight.  And vice versa.  The less savory characters have to trust that Samara will help them as much as she'll help the more "just" characters.  Everyone has to trust that Legion isn't part of some elaborate geth plot to betray them to the Reapers.

They don't have to be friends with each other.  They don't even have to like each other.  That would make no sense.  But they have to trust each other to watch their backs when lives were on the line.  I fail to see how that was established in the game.  At all.

#1563
Iakus

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

You know, I've noticed something. The people who dislike ME2 on the ME2 forums are much more civil than the people on the DA2 forums.


I will take that as a compliment, thanks.


Skilled Seeker wrote...

ME2 has been out for a while so most of the trolls have gotten bored and left. DA2 is yet to be released so its prime troll bait.


And this as...less complimentaryImage IPB

#1564
Zulu_DFA

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[quote]InfiniteCuts wrote...

Some of the key aspects of Mass Effect, aside from plot, that were superior to their counterparts in the sequel:

Scale - ME is just a larger game in both perspective, space and narrative. Hub worlds were larger and seamless with the use of a few elevators, which served as perfect time for squad banter, news, etc. Combat environments were varied in ME1, offering both CQC and large open battlefields. Enclosed combat spaces were repetitive, and they took the right steps to correct this in ME2, while sacrificing open spaces. Most places in ME2 felt cramped, including the "larger" SR2. The Citadel was reduced to a few rooms and a mini-mall. Even the galaxy had a larger feel to it as we were dealing with a sense of discovery that was lost in ME2. Overall, Mass Effect was a larger game than Mass Effect 2.

Physics - ME2 is incredibly "heavier" than its predecessor. Shepard's movement in ME2 felt awkward and sluggish, as if he/she was crippled somehow. There was a greater sense of speed and freedom in movement in ME1. Count me as one of the few that actually prefer moving into cover with the thumbsticks than having to press a button. It felt more intuitive and didn't place all of the focus on cover mechanics. Basically, **** cover if it's the only way you're going to survive combat in a game. It's been said many times before, but there are other games that cater to this style of play and do it much better. Bring back the kind of ranged, tactical combat that can benefit from but not absolutely require the use of cover. Also, who in their right mind doesn't miss the ragdoll physics of ME? As an infiltrator, I actually feel sorry for biotics this time around. How you guys have managed to remain relatively quiet while losing so much of what made your powers great in ME is beyond me.

Art - ME1's art style was more refined and didn't try too hard to impress with neon lights and dark colors. More specifically, armor, despite not being as customizable as in ME2, was head and shoulders above anything offered there. Light/Medium/Heavy armor for each race with fairly distinctive design qualities between them. Meanwhile, ME2 offers the ability to mix and match armor pieces, but most pieces just look cumbersome and plain ugly. Life Support Webbings, Death Mask, Collector Armor... anyone? Environments were also treated with more refinement and creativity in ME1. The Citadel with all its different locales and how they all come together seamlessly, Virmire with its beaches and tropical setting, Ilos... the alien vegetation, prothean artifacts and the bunker levels. Noveria with it's isolated and sterile atmosphere. I could go on and on how each of these locations stand out on their own and all come together to create a compelling world. There is very little of this in ME2. Instead they tried to impress us with light and color combinations, while not putting as much thought into the overall feel of the environment. ME2 levels were designed either for you to get from point a to b or to provide adequate cover for the obvious fight that is coming, whereas ME has levels that were created on their own merits, in which you might have to fight or just explore.

Audio - Ambient sound and music played a more important role in Mass Effect. Nearly everywhere you went, there was some memorable piece of music or soundscape to accompany you. Sounds of battle on Feros, varying levels of wind on the planets, quasar machines at Flux... there are tons of examples in ME1 where the environment's sound combined with music really draw you into the world. This is sort of an afterthought in ME2, or just doesn't quite have the same effect. My guess is because of the shift from the well-suited synthesized style of the original in favor of more orchestral, contemporary themes. And there is very little ambient sound in ME2... mostly just humming sounds and chatter. ME1 excels in this department as well.

Animation - ME2 character animation was exaggerated and had Shepard looking quite the fool at times. I winced everytime he'd do his little arm fold gangster-lean while trying to express disapproval. Femshep was beyond awkward with her mannerisms. Facial animation somehow managed to regress over what we've previously seen. Even enemies took a hit as they lost much of the ragdoll effects from the first game and instead had scripted overeactions to gunfire. Also, biotics lost some of the interesting gestures they made while casting different powers in the original.

There are quite a few of these nuanced aspects to the game that most people don't take the time to consider when comparing both games. There is something to be said for subtlety, BioWare.[/quote]
[/quote]

Signed. Every word of it. Especially the "****" word!

#1565
Zulu_DFA

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Bryy_Miller wrote...

You know, I've noticed something. The people who dislike ME2 on the ME2 forums are much more civil than the people on the DA2 forums.


Perhaps this has something to do with the relation between the "maturities" of the games themselves and of those people who are disappointed with them.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 14 novembre 2010 - 12:54 .


#1566
Bryy_Miller

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

You know, I've noticed something. The people who dislike ME2 on the ME2 forums are much more civil than the people on the DA2 forums.


Perhaps this has something to do with the relation between the "maturities" of the games themselves and of those people who are disappointed with them.


Nope. People bought Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 simply because Fox News said there was sex in it. Have you never seen that one flash cartoon?

"Come on, this is why you bought the game, right?"

#1567
RiouHotaru

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InfiniteCuts wrote...
*snip because I don't want to quote a massive wall of text and then drop a comparable wall on TOP of that*

...I agree with the spirit of what you're trying to argue, but I feel you're leaving out several weak points in your arguments, and I’m not sure if you’re even aware you did this:




Scale – ME1 may have felt bigger, but how much of that was purely empty space or the same environment rehashed over and over and over again?  Combat environments were NOT that varied, and I feel your statement is largely in error.  It was the same buildings, often with the same interior designs, even when it came to the caves.  ME2 makes an in-joke about pre-fab buildings and structures because they recognized their own mistake.  While they did sacrifice this for comparatively smaller spaces in ME2, each environment is unique and different
looking.  Also, the hubs were larger, yes, but how often did you actually take the time to manually traverse the
entire Citadel, or did you just use the Transit to get around (which had its own load screen too!)  While the
elevators were an interesting touch, having to use the Elevator every time you wanted to hear the news got old FAST, hence the news terminals.  I will concede that the squad banter in the elevators was nice, but often it was the same conversation and the same responses only with very slight differences.


Physics – “Heavier”?  Well, we all noticed that Shepard seems to move with a slight limp, which was odd, but it didn’t bother me too much.  As for the cover mechanic…well, this is the price of moving away from the RPG-style and into the TPS-style.  Cover becomes very important in a TPS, and means the difference between life or death.  Cover was only unnecessary in ME1 because power combos or armor combos rendered Shepard largely invulnerable to damage.  And you admit you preferred it using the thumbstick, and that’s cool, but for a lot of us, not only was using cover awkward, but Shepard’s ability to stick to walls became annoying fast.  Using a button to control cover makes things MUCH easier for us.  I wouldn’t have minded some sort of blind-fire, which a lot of other TPS’ use, but that’s another story.  As for ragdoll physics…sure, sniping someone and sending their bodies soaring back was awesome…but you can’t snipe at NEARLY the ranges you could in ME1 anymore.  We were quiet probably because the ragdoll physics of old just didn’t cut it anymore.


Art – Now here, I have the largest disagreement with you.  ME1’s hub worlds and story planets were the ONLY places where unique artwork was used in the entire game.  Every other word was the same base rock croppings and mountains with different color textures, and even THOSE were often reused from time-to-time.  ME2 may have had less worlds to visit, but each one was different looking and offered great variety of styles, from the lush backdrop used in Overlord, to the clashing storm of Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Even the N7 assignments, while short, did offer unique venues as well.  To argue otherwise…As for the way ME2 tries to “impress us with flashy color combos”, sure.  The technology for graphics had improved…tenfold since ME1.  They went for better because the technology and budget for better was present.  I don’t think anyone would’ve wanted a repeat of ME1 in that sense.  You’re right though, in that ME2’s locales made it obvious if combat was coming, this is the drawback of a TPS.  Hard to make your cover blend in seamlessly sometimes.


Sound – You make excellent points in that you’re right, ME2 went for more dramatic background noise, and there’s less ambience sound-effects in places where the proper use of such would be great.  But I actually enjoyed the chatter.  It’s weird that there’s so many NPCs in the ME1 hub worlds…but you rarely hear them talk, and only on specific triggers.  I’d agree that some ambient sound effects would work too, the music does it’s job of setting the scene as well, which is WHY the music in ME2 is so memorable.


Animation – For a bit, I just sort of stared at this section.  Backwards?  Yes, Sheploo’s creepy face is the face that
has since launched a thousand memes, but really, the people were MUCH more expressive this time around.  While there was some exaggeration, I felt it was necessary a bit.  If the characters tried being TOO realistic we’d
step straight into the Uncanny Valley.  But I could tell easily on people’s faces when people were sad or mad or happy.  Even characters who couldn’t easily express emotion like Garrus, Legion, or Tali, it was clear when there were expressions and emotions.  Why do you think Legion is so popular despite not even being remotely humanoid save for bipedal shape?  They had an entire team devoted purely to the EYES of characters, to make movements look realistic.  As for ragdolls, sure, enemies now have scripted reactions, but most enemies wouldn’t even exhibit reactions until you killed them in ME1.  I think it’s a rather fallacious claim to state that animations have taken whole steps backwards.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 14 novembre 2010 - 01:32 .


#1568
glacier1701

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RiouHotaru wrote...




Scale –   snip.....


 I agree that the interiors were the same but we did get a large number of different types of combat and that really went away in ME2. Moreover I can still remember trying in a number of cases of figuring out how to cross OPEN ground to be able to get at those enemies that were behind cover and really did not show themselves. We got none of that in ME2 except close range combat for the most part with chest high cover everywhere and no open expanses. In other words combat scale really suffered.

 As to the worlds - well again while reuse MAY have been made of elements of terrain in ME we get open expanses. Overlord never even came close to the scale of worlds we got in ME though it is a move in the right direction. Quite frankly Overlord was still small and cramped and linear compared to the multiple paths we could go in ME. And really considering the importance of some of the hubs we went to there was little to see. Considering what the devs seemed to promise before release and what we got afterward it does seem that they spent too much time on trying to get 'colours' right and little on actual content within those areas.


RiouHotaru wrote...


Physics – snip.....


 This is an area of personal preference. Really do think that there was no improvement made here OR perhaps its better to say that what was gained was matched by what was lost.


RiouHotaru wrote...

Art – Now here, I have the largest disagreement with you.  ME1’s hub worlds and story planets were the ONLY places where unique artwork was used in the entire game.  Every other word was the same base rock croppings and mountains with different color textures, and even THOSE were often reused from time-to-time.  ME2 may have had less worlds to visit, but each one was different looking and offered great variety of styles, from the lush backdrop used in Overlord, to the clashing storm of Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Even the N7 assignments, while short, did offer unique venues as well.  To argue otherwise…As for the way ME2 tries to “impress us with flashy color combos”, sure.  The technology for graphics had improved…tenfold since ME1.  They went for better because the technology and budget for better was present.  I don’t think anyone would’ve wanted a repeat of ME1 in that sense.  You’re right though, in that ME2’s locales made it obvious if combat was coming, this is the drawback of a TPS.  Hard to make your cover blend in seamlessly sometimes.


 Another area of personal preference. Yet the main thing I saw was that pretty much the only difference between most areas (in terms of art) was how 'dirty' it looked. Other than that it all seemed pretty homogenous and non-differentiated and I will say nonsensical. Its one thing to try to design good levels but to sacrifice believability to put in chest high cover everywhere was just plain bad. Part of the combat scenario is how to reach the cover especially if open ground has to be crossed. And that is where BW failed - they comprimised 'art' to try to put cover everywhere.


No major comments about the last 2 sections. Considering what BW has supposedly learnt from ME much did not seem improved in ME2 as the devs say that it did. I mean while they did put in more movement there are still huge areas where they put in static models some of them so close to the area you could move around in that it really looked cheesy. It does look like they spent so much time on a few things and then just plain ran out of time and dumped in something just to fill the background even if it looked wrong.


 Lets say this - I've just played and finished Call of Duty: Black Ops. Considering what ME2 has been typed as in regards to its genre Black Ops could be said to be a game that fits into that same category. In other words ME2 failed to bring over from ME the great story it had and it became a generic shooter with some rpg in it. Black Ops (like the rest of the COD series) is a shooter but the storyline in this case was amped up so much that with ONLY the addition of character advancement and some interaction inside the game and you'd have something that would blow ME2 out of the water. That speaks, in my opinion, volumes as to how bad a job the devs did with ME2 and how good a job others are doing in moving into the territory that BioWare used to be alone in.


#1569
Lumikki

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How can anyone consider Call of Duty: Black ops First Person Shooter, to be in as same genre or gategory as ME2? I mean FPS and TPS are totally different game gategory. Just because both has shooter combat doesn't make them same. I should know, because example in my case, I have motion sickness illness what cause that I can't play FPS games at all. How ever, I can play TPS games fine, because the perspective is totally different. TPS is something between isometric strategy and first person shooter view point. Now if you look just story and customation, you could as well pick some strategy game and start compare.

#1570
InfiniteCuts

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Scale – ME1 may have felt bigger, but how much of that was purely empty space or the same environment rehashed over and over and over again? snip

There was certainly a lot of empty space and repetition, but what I meant by "varied" is more in terms of combat scenarios that these open spaces allowed for. Like glacier1701 mentioned, you had more options available to you in terms of how you could approach a combat situation, and this sense of freedom was a direct result of the more open level design of Mass Effect. There were time where you could spot the enemy in advance from way out and decide whether to hop back in the Mako to flank them, or charge right ahead. This kind of freedom also helped to differentiate the classes in more ways than just available talents. An infiltrator literally felt different than playing an adept in large part because of how they could use the space around them. It's one of the many situation where BioWare could have improved on a feature that was unpolished in the original, but instead decided to scrap it altogether in favor of a design philosophy that was unanticipated by most fans. The directed, more "on rails" approach of ME2 goes against everything they've previously done.

On the subject of hub worlds, I may not have explored every inch of the Citadel every playthrough, but I certainly did the first few times lol. I had upwards of 70 hours on my first playthrough, and it wasn't even until my next one that I really even bothered to use the transit system. My point is there are some players like myself that enjoy taking their time to explore the world they're playing. BioWare had the right idea in mind by creating large hub worlds and (sometimes) providing means to navigate through them quickly. ME2 Citadel was smaller in comparison and yet somehow felt more tedious to explore than ME's Citadel. I blame that on poor level design, not space or distance. What squad members would say or do during loading sequences could have been improved upon or added to, but instead BioWare decided to broken record.

RiouHotaru wrote...

Physics – “Heavier”?  Well, we all noticed that Shepard seems to move with a slight limp, which was odd, but it didn’t bother me too much. snip

More so than the limp though, the game just feels slower and almost like your movement is being guided sometimes... weird to explain but that's the sensation I got on more than a few occasions with ME2. I can definitely see the advantages of using a button for cover and I think it was a good choice to add it, but couldn't something like that have been made optional? This is the type of thing that could have been an innovation (offering both button-activated cover and directional cover), but they took the easy route and scrapped something that made their game unique. Ragdoll physics can go a long way to making Mass Effect a fun game, especially with biotics. It was present in ME2 to a certain extent, but not quite as pronounced as the original. I really hope they consider putting more emphasis on ragdoll physics in ME3.

RiouHotaru wrote...

Art – Now here, I have the largest disagreement with you.  ME1’s hub worlds and story planets were the ONLY places where unique artwork was used in the entire game. snip

Yeah planets were redundant in design with only superficial difference in some cases... but again my gripe is that they ditched something valuable the planets added to the game only to resolve a relatively minor issue. The uncharted planets brought a sense of mystery and awe to the game that few can deny, even if you didn't care much for exploration. They brought something unique to gamers who aren't used to seeing planets as they might actually appear in reality, and conveyed the sense of difficulty that might be involved in exploring them. They also contributed to the sense of scale we had in Mass Effect. We were a minuscule part of the galaxy and yet we had so much mass effect on it. We go from that... to hoping around lava platforms with the Hammerhead.ಠ_ಠ All because some players did not have the patience or desire to explore them to get the most out of the game. There were solutions for this particular problem, but instead blah blah blah...

ME2's art was good in many cases... I don't deny that. I just feel like the overarching direction changed for the worse. That they decided to focus on what was visible at close-range has a lot to do with my opinion. Also, I really appreciated the more realistic, understated approach to weapons and armor design in Mass Effect, not to mention the variety we had for squad members as well. Just scroll through this page and tell me things haven't taken a turn for the worse.

RiouHotaru wrote...

snip I’d agree that some ambient sound effects would work too, the music does it’s job of setting the scene as well, which is WHY the music in ME2 is so memorable.

Meh... ME2 music really isn't memorable to me at all, though obviously this is a matter of taste and is completely subjective. I just don't recall such and such track playing at such and such location the way I can with every single Mass Effect theme. I know there was music in the background and that it was likely adrenaline-inducing during those all-important combat sequences... but beyond that the music served little in making an impression on me. Lair of the Shadow Broker is really the only memorable auditory experience for me in ME2... then again it's the most memorable in every way.

RiouHotaru wrote...

Animation – For a bit, I just sort of stared at this section.  Backwards?  Yes, Sheploo’s creepy face is the face that has since launched a thousand memes, but really, the people were MUCH more expressive this time around. snip

Yeah I'm nitpicking with facial expressions... they were certainly more expressive but sillier at the same time. Again, I liked ME's more understated but effective approach to facial expression as it felt more relatable to me. Expressing emotion doesn't always have to be so in-your-face or flamboyant... no matter how much extroverts (i.e. the majority) want to believe this. My biggest concern is Shepard's body language. Some of his/her gestures were just laughable and took me right out of the moment. I think the people writing certain characters and scenes should have just as much sway in terms of how they are animated... as this doesn't seem to be the case, especially with FemShep. I stated my opinion on ragdoll already, so I won't repeat it here... but very important that they try to bring it back or improve it drastically IMO. So yeah... animation as a whole didn't take a step back, though in some areas it may have gone too far(?)

Modifié par InfiniteCuts, 14 novembre 2010 - 07:39 .


#1571
glacier1701

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Lumikki wrote...

How can anyone consider Call of Duty: Black ops First Person Shooter, to be in as same genre or gategory as ME2? I mean FPS and TPS are totally different game gategory. Just because both has shooter combat doesn't make them same. I should know, because example in my case, I have motion sickness illness what cause that I can't play FPS games at all. How ever, I can play TPS games fine, because the perspective is totally different. TPS is something between isometric strategy and first person shooter view point. Now if you look just story and customation, you could as well pick some strategy game and start compare.



 The thing here is that what BioWare did not manage to do leaves them vulnerable to other companies. Look at  it this way - Black Ops has sold more games in 24 hours than ME2 did since release. While the COD series has never had a strong storyline for the most part it has been something that they have been adding to over the course of those games. In Black Ops they now have a story that is as strong (if not stronger) than what we got in ME2. As I said add in some character interaction in game and some more customisation and you now have something that could be the equivalent to the ME series (apart from the shooter perspective). Is COD gonna go the full route and try to muscle in on the same genre as ME - I very much doubt it. The facts are though that HAD Black Ops been ready at the same time as ME2 then ME2 would have flopped and badly and we most probably would not have had any chance at ME3. Only because nothing else was coming out at the same time did ME2 perhaps pull in as much as it did on initial release and luck is not something that should be counted on. Are there games out there that could fill the same niche as ME? There most probably are and with the way that ME2 has been handled the devs for ME can not sit back and say 'we did a great job' when an FPS has as strong a story as ME2.

#1572
Lunatic LK47

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Hmm.... Personal disappointment I can think of besides the Data import bugs: No Wrex bear-hug. I wanted to see that in-game, and not just leave it as concept art.

#1573
Il Divo

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glacier1701 wrote...

 The thing here is that what BioWare did not manage to do leaves them vulnerable to other companies. Look at  it this way - Black Ops has sold more games in 24 hours than ME2 did since release.


Multiplayer trumps single player. Always. This is how things have always been. Mass Effect 2 could have been the greatest traditional RPG ever made and it will never surpass COD because of the multiplayer experience. Mass Effect 2's gameplay was simply redesigned to be more fluid and responsive than its previous installment, which was a problem for many, much like the changes Dragon Age has undergone.

While the COD series has never had a strong storyline for the most part it has been something that they have been adding to over the course of those games.


Not entirely accurate. Modern Warfare aside, none of the COD games have been highly regarded for their campaigns. There have even been a few issues cited with Black Ops as well. But your point  that all the storylines have been steadily improving is made invalid by both World at War and Modern Warfare 2, the most recent COD games before Black Ops. World at War merely provides a framework for why you are killing things (much like COD 2) and Modern Warfare 2's campaign was criticized for its over-the-top style and for not living up to the original.

Example seen here:

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1134103p1.html

In Black Ops they now have a story that is as strong (if not stronger) than what we got in ME2. As I said add in some character interaction in game and some more customisation and you now have something that could be the equivalent to the ME series (apart from the shooter perspective).


You make it sound like this is a salad. "Throw in a few tomatoes and some carrots and it'll taste great." Point being that you underestimate the value of character interaction (and the character interactions in Mass Effect 2 surpass all previous Bioware attempts). So no, throwing in some character interactions, exploration, side quests, character choices, a brand new universe, and frequent character dialogue is not quite handled with the ease which you imply. All these elements would have to pull away from COD's multiplayer gameplay, which would then alienate most of COD's fanbase. Mass Effect 2 occupies a completely different niche than does Call of Duty.

The facts are though that HAD Black Ops been ready at the same time as ME2 then ME2 would have flopped and badly and we most probably would not have had any chance at ME3.


Really? This is a fact now? So what are the premises on which you base this conclusion? Not to say that when two games are released concurrently that one cannot impact the other's sales. But you seem to be implying that most (if not all) of Mass Effect 2's fan base would have switched over to Black Ops and you do not have anywhere near enough evidence to make that assertion.

Only because nothing else was coming out at the same time did ME2 perhaps pull in as much as it did on initial release and luck is not something that should be counted on. Are there games out there that could fill the same niche as ME?


What are all these games of which you speak? Modern Warfare was the best of the COD campaigns and I still don't find it to be comparable to Mass Effect 2. When I play Modern Warfare, it does not fulfill any RPG needs that I have.

I can also apply your 'logic' to Mass Effect. Perhaps only because no other games came out at the same time did Mass Effect pull in as much as it did.

There most probably are and with the way that ME2 has been handled the devs for ME can not sit back and say 'we did a great job' when an FPS has as strong a story as ME2.


So, the devs shouldn't be patting themselves on the back for creating what is rated to be one of the top ten highest PC games on metacritic?

Admittedly, there's always room for improvement and the word of critics is not law, but your statement seems to be implying that Mass Effect 2 was a definitive failure when quite a few people (including many on this board such as myself ) regard Mass Effect 2 as a huge success.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 novembre 2010 - 03:35 .


#1574
Lunatic LK47

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Il Divo wrote...


Not entirely accurate. Modern Warfare aside, none of the COD games have been highly regarded for their campaigns. There have even been a few issues cited with Black Ops as well. But your point  that all the storylines have been steadily improving is made invalid by both World at War and Modern Warfare 2, the most recent COD games before Black Ops. World at War merely provides a framework for why you are killing things (much like COD 2) and Modern Warfare 2's campaign was criticized for its over-the-top style and for not living up to the original.


Uh, false. Call of Duty's main hook was squad-based combat, minus the tedious micromanagement involved, and the idea of playing from the perspective of different armies. As far as I know, no other game has done that, and I'm not counting the ****fest that is Conflict: Desert Storm. How is Call of Duty's multiplayer that special compared to other FPS of the past two decades? All I know so far is Call of Duty 4 did the Killstreak system and other games copied/refined the fomula.

#1575
Dark Glasses

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InfiniteCuts wrote...
Physics - ME2 is incredibly "heavier" than its predecessor. Shepard's movement in ME2 felt awkward and sluggish, as if he/she was crippled somehow. There was a greater sense of speed and freedom in movement in ME1. Count me as one of the few that actually prefer moving into cover with the thumbsticks than having to press a button. It felt more intuitive and didn't place all of the focus on cover mechanics. Basically, **** cover if it's the only way you're going to survive combat in a game. It's been said many times before, but there are other games that cater to this style of play and do it much better. Bring back the kind of ranged, tactical combat that can benefit from but not absolutely require the use of cover. Also, who in their right mind doesn't miss the ragdoll physics of ME? As an infiltrator, I actually feel sorry for biotics this time around. How you guys have managed to remain relatively quiet while losing so much of what made your powers great in ME is beyond me.

I agree with this part 100%.
Mass Effect 2 movement felt like it was made for gamepad and not for keyboard.