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[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

MrFob wrote...

The real shame is, that because we are back in this thread, no one but those who care to follow that thread (and most of those already agree on the major points anyway) will read it.

Well that's the fault of the forum goer and not the people who want their opinions to be heard. It's possible that people don't actually want to hear people's complaints about ME2 on these forums. I have read through many of the opinions and factual statements in this thread and most of them have validity. Coming to forums for a video game I love, however, I usually don't care to read about how much people were disappointed with it. I deal with enough sh*t at work and school. I don't want to come onto forums for a relaxing hobby of mine and see multiple threads of people b*tching about it. I understand the frustration and I have ME3 vastly improves upon ME2. Personally, this thread bothers me enough. I want to pull the "if you hate it why are you here argument," but I know that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I know everyone is complaining because they enjoy the ME series so much. However, I don't see the necessity of a second thread. As far as thread popularity goes, have a mod lock this one and start a new one with a link to this one. I believe people are hesitant to join a 60+ page discussion (although that is simply self-projection).

[Iakus]

MrFob wrote...

The real shame is, that because we are back in this thread, no one but those who care to follow that thread (and most of those already agree on the major points anyway) will read it.

This is why I really hope that developers pay close attention to this particular thread.  It's the only place they're likely to see any critical feedback.  (No, I don't consider "Why can't I romance Samara?"" to be that )   And the number of people that come here to, um, "strenuously disagree" certainly forces us to justify our reasoning...

Otherwise this is basically one big "Free Speech Zone".

[Nightwriter]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

MrFob wrote...

The real shame is, that because we are back in this thread, no one but those who care to follow that thread (and most of those already agree on the major points anyway) will read it.

Well that's the fault of the forum goer and not the people who want their opinions to be heard. It's possible that people don't actually want to hear people's complaints about ME2 on these forums. I have read through many of the opinions and factual statements in this thread and most of them have validity. Coming to forums for a video game I love, however, I usually don't care to read about how much people were disappointed with it. I deal with enough sh*t at work and school. I don't want to come onto forums for a relaxing hobby of mine and see multiple threads of people b*tching about it. I understand the frustration and I have ME3 vastly improves upon ME2. Personally, this thread bothers me enough. I want to pull the "if you hate it why are you here argument," but I know that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. I know everyone is complaining because they enjoy the ME series so much. However, I don't see the necessity of a second thread. As far as thread popularity goes, have a mod lock this one and start a new one with a link to this one. I believe people are hesitant to join a 60+ page discussion (although that is simply self-projection).

Yeah but the thing is, there's plenty of crap that's allowed to continue that isn't about disappointment with ME2.

There's always going to be some idiot on the forums saying a certain character is racist or they find something offensive or Tali must die or the batarians must be exterminated with genocide.

We see this kind of thing constantly, yet those threads are allowed to exist - and they're quite negative. Even repeats of those threads are allowed to exist. So it isn't negativity that's being kept down, it's this specific topic.

[SithLordExarKun]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

I wouldn't really call InfiniteCuts a troll, at the very least he acknowledges that his criticisms are his opinions and not universal facts like a few other posters. I don't see him calling anyone who enjoys ME2 a "dumb meathead shooter fan".

I may disagree with him, but honestly I'm reading his posts from a different point of view unlike other posters which i just laugh at and ignore in this thread.

ha... thanks for the vote of confidence, SithLord. But yeah... some people seem to equate criticism with abject hatred of the game. ME2 is my second favorite Xbox360 title (you'll never guess the first). If anyone disagrees then state your reasons and discuss or keep it moving... I'm not interested in the ego trips some people have on this forum. It really doesn't have to be all or nothing... the more we make it seem that way the more likely BioWare will cater to one side over the other, and most people seem to agree that a merger of what made both games great is what we're looking forward to.

Err let me rephrase that incase you got the wrong idea. I wouldn't call infiniteCuts a troll. Idk why i put the "really" in there but my mainpoint is you aren't.

The thing is i disagree with quite a number of the criticisms here but i realize its pointless to state why i disagree well for reasons you know, number one is ego trips which i do have a habit for over here and number 2 i don't think it gets me or the opposition anywhere but more heated afterwards.

[InfiniteCuts]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

 Err let me rephrase that incase you got the wrong idea. I wouldn't call infiniteCuts a troll. Idk why i put the "really" in there but my mainpoint is you aren't.

The thing is i disagree with quite a number of the criticisms here but i realize its pointless to state why i disagree well for reasons you know, number one is ego trips which i do have a habit for over here and number 2 i don't think it gets me or the opposition anywhere but more heated afterwards.

No worries... I just found that part amusing.  But yeah... it can seem pointless at times but I think some people should take a second look at the thread's title before telling others to leave the forums.  I've never understood why people take these discussions so personal.

[Nightwriter]

Infinite is most certainly not a troll. So says Nightwriter.

[InfiniteCuts]

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

The only area in ME1 that I will actually concede is larger than ME2 would be the Citadel. It was indeed larger than anything in Mass Effect 2. However, it was also the only "hub world" in ME1. ...

"Hub world" was probably a poor choice of words on my part... but you get the idea. The plot worlds were larger than those in ME2. I'm not sure number of side-quests really gets to the heart of what bothers me with ME2, either. I'm more concerned about how these side-quests play into the larger plot and how they help describe the world you're in. For example, the "Packages for Ish" sidequest on Omega was completely useless and left me wondering why Shepard would travel halfway across the galaxy to get these packages for some informant (especially since there is no real consequence). Small sidequest with little to no relevance to Omega. Compare that to the "Smuggling" side-quest on Noveria. It too seems like a relatively minor quest, but has far-reaching implications on how you complete the main mission on Noveria. You can use it as leverage to get the pass from Anoleis, give it to Opold to earn cash and experience, or hold onto it and either sell it to a buyer or get ambushed by him. In addition, it gives you perspective on Noveria's security and how contraband might make it in and out of the facility. Small sidequest but relatively larger consequences. I'll take 4-6 of these type of side-quests over a dozen inconsequential fetch/N7 quests any day. Less sidequests, more quality and relevance to main plot and larger worlds, IMO.

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

It's true, ME2 is more of a shooter when it comes to combat. ...

Fun, challenging RPG/TPS combat shouldn't require cover mechanics though... that's what I'm getting at. Or rather, BioWare could have done like their first game and tried something different than every other third-person shooter out there. There was a more sandbox, open-world feel to ME's combat in that cover was available, but not the only way to deflect enemy fire and survive. You could crouch or disable enemies in a significant way (sabotage/damping), allowing you to get the drop on them before they could do damage. Cover is now central to combat, whereas it used to be that your talents played a more important role in your success. Not only is cover mandatory (regardless of your level), but there is just too much of it. There is cover at nearly every five steps conveniently placed throughout every level. Also, global cooldown has nerfed us beyond recognition, putting even more emphasis on shooting over other talents to get through a mission. I don't buy that the combat we now have is what they wanted initially. I think they were going for a unique style of combat and later caved into pressure to conform with what other games were offering to a greater degree.

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

I disagree here. While the armors may have been sleeker in ME1, I think it sucked a lot of personality out of the characters.

Agree to disagree here. Squadmate personality should come through where it matters: interaction, dialogue, and gameplay style (which ME characters had in spades... that's why they're still favorites). A unique touch to that squadmate's armor is cool... but we had that in ME with the variances in design. Also, I appreciated that I could have my entire team sport a particular set of armor... added a strong sense of team unity. I also enjoyed manufacturer licenses/back-stories. I'm a big fan of Ariake Technologies and Elanus Risk Control items and and enjoyed reading about each manufacturer and making sure I had complete sets for each squadmate. All of that is out the window in ME2 and I don't see how this is an improvement.

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

As a lover of musical scores, I can tell you Jack Wall's work in ME2 is fantastic.

Jack Wall is a god among men. I just think he was told specifically what to do in ME2 by "outside" opinions rather than having the creative freedom he and Sam expressed in ME. Only way to explain the difference in approach for something that was a resounding success in the first game. As for chatter... doesn't really bother me that much... except when it's always "comedy"-driven and trying too hard to get my attention. There was a little too much of this in ME2.

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

A strong disagree here. I believe with the added animation characters became more realistic.

I don't know... I realize animation improved in many ways but again it's the overdoing it that bugged me in some cases. In any case, I know I'm nitpicking with this one but I liked ME's more subtle approach to expressing emotion over the overt gestures/expressions in ME2.

sheridanmovieguy wrote...

Personally, in my opinion ME3 should be a pleasant hybrid of the two, and frankly, I think that's the way it's going.

This, we have in common... though you seem to have a little more faith than I that BioWare will consider taking a closer look at what made the original good and trying to incorporate those things with more fidelity.

[RiouHotaru]

I don't see how universal cool-down nerfed folks. Compare to ME1 where the going strategy basically amounted to:



1) Find enemies

2) Spam all available combat powers (Teammates as well!)

3) Hide behind something

4) Wait until powers have cooled down

5) Repeat 2 through 4 until enemies dead

6) [Optional]: Shoot enemies while powers are cooling down.



Really, the universal cooldown was specifically designed to PREVENT the power spam we saw back in ME1, not to cave in to some other parties' desire. They've said so repeatedly. I mean heat-sinks were designed to prevent the occurances of bullet-sponging that would occur in ME1 as well. Remember enemies using Immunity? Sure, the universal talent cooldown means we shoot more, but the powers we use are also significantly better to compensate, and the cooldowns are super-short compared to ME1

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I don't see how universal cool-down nerfed folks. Compare to ME1 where the going strategy basically amounted to:

1) Find enemies
2) Spam all available combat powers (Teammates as well!)
3) Hide behind something
4) Wait until powers have cooled down
5) Repeat 2 through 4 until enemies dead
6) [Optional]: Shoot enemies while powers are cooling down.

Really, the universal cooldown was specifically designed to PREVENT the power spam we saw back in ME1, not to cave in to some other parties' desire. They've said so repeatedly. I mean heat-sinks were designed to prevent the occurances of bullet-sponging that would occur in ME1 as well. Remember enemies using Immunity? Sure, the universal talent cooldown means we shoot more, but the powers we use are also significantly better to compensate, and the cooldowns are super-short compared to ME1

So now it is mainly the same, only you get to spam only one, the appropriate one, power according the simplistic "paper-rock-scissors -- spell vs. negation" system. Spam it practically non-stop, with the fast cooldowns, like that AR with double heat sink in ME1 everybody used to complain about. So where is the improvement?

In ME1 that system you've described occasionally failed to work when you stumbled upon enemy engineers, who simply switched off your abilities and/or weapons, demanding some inventive tactics. Sometimes you faced shield penetrating attacks. Sometimes enemy snipers worked you over all of a sudden...

In ME2 the combat is always the same. Monotonous. On my last playthough I actually didn't shoot enemies at all during some missions. I let Zaeed and Legion do all the shooting, and just spammed incineration after incineration, having to run away from approaching melee enemies once in a while continuing to dispense incineration on the move. So no, universal cooldown talent doesn't mean we shoot more.

[Lunatic LK47]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In ME1 that system you've described occasionally failed to work when you stumbled upon enemy engineers, who simply switched off your abilities and/or weapons, demanding some inventive tactics. Sometimes you faced shield penetrating attacks. Sometimes enemy snipers worked you over all of a sudden.

Uh, I've had moments where Biotics kept me in a "spam throw" loops and pumped me full of shots until I died during in-door missions. Not my idea of fun. Things don't really help much if the Engineers already screwed the non-combat classes over by spamming damping, overload, and sabotage at the same time, giving us little to nothing to fight back with.

In ME2 the combat is always the same. Monotonous. On my last playthough I actually didn't shoot enemies at all during some missions. I let Zaeed and Legion do all the shooting, and just spammed incineration after incineration, having to run away from approaching melee enemies once in a while continuing to dispense incineration on the move. So no, universal cooldown talent doesn't mean we shoot more.

How was that any different from the first game exactly? You're still stuck fighting them with the same exact strategy either way with the build you're best with (i.e. In my case, I only excel with the Soldier and Infiltrator, and never bothered with the others because the skills are outright useless.)

[Zulu_DFA]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In ME1 that system you've described occasionally failed to work when you stumbled upon enemy engineers, who simply switched off your abilities and/or weapons, demanding some inventive tactics. Sometimes you faced shield penetrating attacks. Sometimes enemy snipers worked you over all of a sudden.

Uh, I've had moments where Biotics kept me in a "spam throw" loops and pumped me full of shots until I died during in-door missions. Not my idea of fun. Things don't really help much if the Engineers already screwed the non-combat classes over by spamming damping, overload, and sabotage at the same time, giving us little to nothing to fight back with.

Hand grenades! It's frisbee time!!!

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

In ME2 the combat is always the same. Monotonous. On my last playthough I actually didn't shoot enemies at all during some missions. I let Zaeed and Legion do all the shooting, and just spammed incineration after incineration, having to run away from approaching melee enemies once in a while continuing to dispense incineration on the move. So no, universal cooldown talent doesn't mean we shoot more.

How was that any different from the first game exactly? You're still stuck fighting them with the same exact strategy either way with the build you're best with (i.e. In my case, I only excel with the Soldier and Infiltrator, and never bothered with the others because the skills are outright useless.)

That's the point of disappointment. ME2 combat is not actually improved. It's in fact degraded by taking away the crouch, numerous abilities, versatile enemies, open environments, hot-switch weapons mods, etc.

[Jebel Krong]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's the point of disappointment. ME2 combat is not actually improved. It's in fact degraded by taking away the crouch, numerous abilities, versatile enemies, open environments, hot-switch weapons mods, etc.

oh for the last time: crouch wouldn't even work with the cover system - you simply don't need it anymore - in fact where would you be able to use it at all, given the level design?! combat in me2 is vastly improved from me1 - you are on your own there - 'versatile enemies' didn't exist in either game - the 'open environments' were only on the copy/paste UNC worlds and combat was hardly exciting there - one shot and everyone magically knew exactly where you were 3 miles away.... 'weapon mods' added a bit of variation, but are redundant given me2's vastly different weapons, and your 'abilities' are the same across both games.

[Pocketgb]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...
*snip*

I believe people are hesitant to join a 60+ page discussion (although that is simply self-projection).

Due to how personal the issue is for many on both sides of the fence, many, many people will argue to the death over numerous issues. The problem with that, though, is that it leads into huge walls of texts seperated by numerous portions of quotes. This is what's called a 'quote war', and it makes it much, much less likely for anyone to tune into and care about a topic.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

InME1 that system you've described occasionally failed to work when you
stumbled upon enemy engineers, who simply switched off your abilities
and/or weapons, demanding some inventive tactics.

Such as, in this case, waiting.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Lunatic LK47]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hand grenades! It's frisbee time!!![/quote]

Frisbees that were nothing more than over-glorified paperweights. I only used a grand total of five grenades the entire game: 4 dedicated to gassing the Feros colonists, and the last one being that last little nook in Bring Down The Sky (i.e. The little shed before Balak shows up)

That's the point of disappointment. ME2 combat is not actually improved. It's in fact degraded by taking away the crouch, numerous abilities, versatile enemies, open environments, hot-switch weapons mods, etc.

[/quote]

Crouch that exploited bad A.I. since cover usage was ****ty, "versaitile" enemies being nothing more than a pause-centric firefight (i.e. Geth Stalkers and Sappers come into mind), or an immunity spam-fest just to avoid getting FUBARed by that one elusive sniper or lucky hit by a Thresher Maw, an inventory that takes literally five minutes to install *ONE* ****ing mod when you already have more than a few dozen mods on hand.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hand grenades! It's frisbee time!!!

Frisbees that were nothing more than over-glorified paperweights. I only used a grand total of five grenades the entire game: 4 dedicated to gassing the Feros colonists, and the last one being that last little nook in Bring Down The Sky (i.e. The little shed before Balak shows up)

They were also of great help during Benezia's fight, and during some other underground fights on UNC missions. As well as anywhere against enemies dug behind cover. The HE-modded grenades had even better blast radius than ME2's grenade launcher...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Crouch that exploited bad A.I. since cover usage was ****ty,

IDK if you play much COD or other FPSs, but there is such thing as hop-shooting. Very helpful when your position is under heavy fire. From crouch - stand up, shoot - back to crouch. It's a lot faster than having Shepard's model turn around every time you want to shoot from behind cover, then turn around again as it goes back into cover... You can't imagine how it pissed me off every time I was taking hits this way in ME2, while in ME1 in a similar situation it was possible to avoid taking hits by using that crouch-hop/shoot-crouch move (and with SR+HEammo it were one-shot Krogan kills), instead of "stickying" yourself to a crate every time.

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
"versaitile" enemies being nothing more than a pause-centric firefight (i.e. Geth Stalkers and Sappers come into mind),

Don't the Rachni acid-spewers and bug-mines come to mind? Don't biotics come to mind,who were capable of something more than distorting the screen picture?

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
or an immunity spam-fest just to avoid getting FUBARed by that one elusive sniper or lucky hit by a Thresher Maw,

What's wrong with immunity?

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
an inventory that takes literally five minutes to install *ONE* ****ing mod when you already have more than a few dozen mods on hand.

Come on, don't be unfair. Nobody in their right mind is going to say that the ME1 inventory was just fine and didn't need improvement, but 5 minutes per mod? Honestly?

Pocketgb wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

InME1 that system you've described occasionally failed to work when you
stumbled upon enemy engineers, who simply switched off your abilities
and/or weapons, demanding some inventive tactics.

Such as, in this case, waiting.

Not necesarilly.

1. Grenades.
2. Melee charge.
3. Squadmate action.

Simple waiting didn't work at all sometimes because enemy engineers could repeat their tech attacks.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 novembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Crouch that exploited bad A.I. since cover usage was ****ty,

IDK if you play much COD or other FPSs, but there is such thing as hop-shooting. Very helpful when your position is under heavy fire. From crouch - stand up, shoot - back to crouch. It's a lot faster than having Shepard's model turn around every time you want to shoot from behind cover, then turn around again as it goes back into cover... You can't imagine how it pissed me off every time I was taking hits this way in ME2, while in ME1 in a similar situation it was possible to avoid taking hits by using that crouch-hop/shoot-crouch move (and with SR+HEammo it were one-shot Krogan kills), instead of "stickying" yourself to a crate every time.

The first time I saw that statement, I thought you meant "jumping and shooting." After re-reading this statement, I'll give you some credit on this and agree in this department.

Don't the Rachni acid-spewers and bug-mines come to mind? Don't biotics come to mind,who were capable of something more than distorting the screen picture?

Already had my problems with biotics spamming their powers non-stop, especially if I have the unfortunate accident of permanently staying down just when Shepard got back on his/her feet or my personal favorite, clipping issues.

What's wrong with immunity?

I don't have a problem with the skill, but what I do have a problem with is that only two out of six classes had access to this ability while the others are more or less screwed over when they need more important protection.

Come on, don't be unfair. Nobody in their right mind is going to say that the ME1 inventory was just fine and didn't need improvement, but 5 minutes per mod? Honestly?

Yeah, I have that many ****ing items, and I already spent ten minutes just modifying Shepard's gear. Double that with the other squadmates.

Not necesarilly.

1. Grenades.
2. Melee charge.
3. Squadmate action.

Simple waiting didn't work at all sometimes because enemy engineers could repeat their tech attacks.

Let's see. Squadmates would randomly *NOT* use their powers despite you spamming orders on the wheel screen, had a tendency to run into your line of fire, repeatedly shoot at you or at the wall, not to mention frequently dying on you (at least ME2 lessened it to *SOME* extent.). Melee only works whenever the game damn feels like it, and I already posted my beef with grenades.

[Zulu_DFA]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

The first time I saw that statement, I thought you meant "jumping and shooting." After re-reading this statement, I'll give you some credit on this and agree in this department.

Back in the Doom 2 days it was "jumping&shooting". But it's actually a real life tactical trick of attack helicopters that often use hill tops for cover... So you see how much depth is lost due to the removal of the crouch.

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Don't the Rachni acid-spewers and bug-mines come to mind? Don't biotics come to mind,who were capable of something more than distorting the screen picture?

Already had my problems with biotics spamming their powers non-stop, especially if I have the unfortunate accident of permanently staying down just when Shepard got back on his/her feet or my personal favorite, clipping issues.

Yes, it happened to me a few times too. But that's just a better reason to keep an eye out for enemy biotics. Sometimes you could dodge them!

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

What's wrong with immunity?

I don't have a problem with the skill, but what I do have a problem with is that only two out of six classes had access to this ability while the others are more or less screwed over when they need more important protection.

Vanguards and Adepts had barrier, which boosted shield strength. Add a shield-boosing armor mod, and those two classes were in business. Sentinels and Engineers were there as support classes, for the bigger challenge, so it was kinda your choice.

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Let's see. Squadmates would randomly *NOT* use their powers despite you spamming orders on the wheel screen, had a tendency to run into your line of fire, repeatedly shoot at you or at the wall, not to mention frequently dying on you (at least ME2 lessened it to *SOME* extent.). Melee only works whenever the game damn feels like it, and I already posted my beef with grenades.

I see. All I can say is that on the PC ME1 came a lot better. The menus were improved, and there was no trouble in using squadmates' powers via the "tactical pause" screen, as well as switching weapon/armor mods during fights.

Also the ME1-PC main hacking minigame was better than any other minigame in the series!

Now, if some subsidiary team managed to make such significant improvements to ME1 in a few months that separated the X-Box and PC release dates, tell me why couldn't BioWare keep up the good work and decided to outrigth dump ME1?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's the point of disappointment. ME2 combat is not actually improved. It's in fact degraded by taking away the crouch, numerous abilities, versatile enemies, open environments, hot-switch weapons mods, etc.

oh for the last time: crouch wouldn't even work with the cover system - you simply don't need it anymore - in fact where would you be able to use it at all, given the level design?! combat in me2 is vastly improved from me1 - you are on your own there - 'versatile enemies' didn't exist in either game - the 'open environments' were only on the copy/paste UNC worlds and combat was hardly exciting there - one shot and everyone magically knew exactly where you were 3 miles away.... 'weapon mods' added a bit of variation, but are redundant given me2's vastly different weapons, and your 'abilities' are the same across both games.

Actually, I added the crouch to ME2 through a line in the .ini, and I use it all the time, and it works.  Objects in the way still block fire whether you're crouched or "stuck to cover", and it allows you to fire from angles that don't work if you're actually stuck to the cover (see also, the issue in ME2 of not being able to fire at all from certain combinations of cover objects).

[Pocketgb]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Simple waiting didn't work at all sometimes because enemy engineers could repeat their tech attacks.

In which case, you move.

Then, you win.

Maybe I'm not the best person to talk about this, since I found ME's combat completely straightforward. Then again, I don't think talking about the combat in a Bioware game ever results in good things.

[wookieeassassin]

The shooting mechanics in ME2 are much better. The skills in ME1 are much better (no universal cooldown). In the first game (I didn't play it on the PC because I didn't want to wait that long, I didn't even know if it was coming to the PC or not when it first came out) the actual squad mechanics, cover system and shooting sucked. Your accuracy with weapons was tied to skills and for a good part of the game you have to actually use skills in order for your weapons to be accurate enough to use with any effectiveness. Your teammates were also as dumb as a bag of hammers so I usually had to end up doing most of the shooting myself because they were selectively inaccurate, weren't smart enough to stay in cover, etc.  As far as the shooting was concerned it almost felt like the RPG fighting style where everyone stands in a circle around enemies and uses skills, at least earlier in the game when your accuracy sucks.

Now, in ME1 there were lots of skills and it added a sort of tactical RPGish element to the combat. This is what most people refer to as skill spamming, but let's be honest, you're either going to be spamming bullets or tech/biotic abilities. What matters is that you have to use tactics in order to defeat most enemies. There needs to be a balance between how much shooting you have to do and how much you have to use skills. Each skill needs to have a place in which it is better than another one. Damping should be the best skill to use in "x" situation, incinerate should be the best skill to use in "y" situation, a pistol should be the best thing to use in "z" situation. All of this varies with enemies as well.

The switchable weapon mods in ME1 were good, I don't know why they removed those, probably had to do with the whole disappearing inventory thing. I don't like the universal skill timer in ME2, it made it so I only used one skill for each character most of the time.

There is one thing in both games that is trivial but still doesn't make sense and it is that most skills hit an enemy even if your teammates don't have a line of sight. I guess your teammate AI would have to be a lot more competent to make it where they must have a line of sight.

So what really needs to happen IMO is a blend of the two. Good shooting mechanics (accuracy not so bad that it makes the game annoying for a while), smart team and enemy AI, lots of skills that you need to use tactically to survive, etc. You should be able to set the combat behavior of individual teammates depending on the situation, that is have the following options or some variation:
Defensive: fall back to cover if enemies advance too much
Offensive: assault enemies that get close (melee, etc.)
Use skills as needed/only when told to (switch that goes with the others)

Then, squad commands. Obviously the individual move commands for each character should stay, but there should be an "open fire on any visible targets", "target the most dangerous enemy", "hold fire", etc.

As far as story is concerned, no more funky things like giant Terminator reaper babies. There were other things in ME2 that were so much more interesting than the Reaper construction. Tali's missions where dark energy is killing Haestrom's star too quickly, basically everything about Legion and the Geth heretics, Mordin's work on the genophage and the politics,etc. surrounding it. All of those were excellent additions to the ME1 story. The abduction of colonists was a great idea, but the Reaper construction and the whole reason why humans were being collected instead of other species was wonky.

Mostly all of the codex information, as well as character dialogue and even the history/ astronomical specs of the planets is great. Bioware has created a very interesting galaxy with lots of different species.

Don't get me wrong, I loved most of Mass Effect 2, even if I didn't like the skill changes and most the RPG element stripping/streamlining. My final save was about 74 hours and I did everything in the game. I'm just adding things that I think would make it a better experience.

Modifié par wookieeassassin, 17 novembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Yes, it happened to me a few times too. But that's just a better reason to keep an eye out for enemy biotics. Sometimes you could dodge them!

I shouldn't have to be an insane mathematician just to dodge the biotic throw at the right time though. I am not one of those spastic QTE nuts that has insanely fast reflexes.

Vanguards and Adepts had barrier, which boosted shield strength. Add a shield-boosing armor mod, and those two classes were in business. Sentinels and Engineers were there as support classes, for the bigger challenge, so it was kinda your choice.

Uh, no. Barriers had a high chance of failing when someone pumps you with Overload in one hit, or better yet, some sniper does a successful assassination on you completely eradicating your shields in one shot.. The extra shield HP mods don't help much, wich is the equivalent of saying "adding more wood will lessen the damage of fire."

I see. All I can say is that on the PC ME1 came a lot better. The menus were improved, and there was no trouble in using squadmates' powers via the "tactical pause" screen, as well as switching weapon/armor mods during fights. Also the ME1-PC main hacking minigame was better than any other minigame in the series!

I shouldn't have to waste $2000 on a gaming-quality desktop PC that may have compatibility issues with the PC game, and it still doesn't remove the problems the console version has.

Now, if some subsidiary team managed to make such significant improvements to ME1 in a few months that separated the X-Box and PC release dates, tell me why couldn't BioWare keep up the good work and decided to outrigth dump ME1?

Uh, the main BioWare studio jumped straight into ME2 just weeks before ME1 got released.

[Moiaussi]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

I shouldn't have to waste $2000 on a gaming-quality desktop PC that may have compatibility issues with the PC game, and it still doesn't remove the problems the console version has.

Isn't that one of the dilemas? How much should the PC game be degraded to make the console game 'better?'

You say you shouldn't have to 'waste' $2000 on a desktop PC... doesn't that translate into saying that the PC users should have to 'waste' money on a console?

[Xeranx]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

I shouldn't have to be an insane mathematician just to dodge the biotic throw at the right time though. I am not one of those spastic QTE nuts that has insanely fast reflexes.

You don't have to be a "spastic 'QTE' (don't know what that is)" to dodge a biotic attack.  This is one of the things that while frustrating at times I appreciated because it put me at the mercy of what I would like to have happen to an npc.  I was still better off than any npc biotic because they couldn't throw me and have me spin in a singularity, but it at least demonstrated that I wasn't a brick house that couldn't be moved.  Also the fact that techs could hit me with overload so my tech skills wouldn't work and I'd have to switch weapons.  I loved that.  The same cannot be said of ME2 where I'm never hit with a push or pull that'll put me on the ground.  The most I'm affected by is warp and it's about equivalent to being smacked in the face.  I stumble a bit and then I'm back in.  Other than that I never find myself at the mercy of anything else but gunfire which I find unfortunate.  

I shouldn't have to waste $2000 on a gaming-quality desktop PC that may have compatibility issues with the PC game, and it still doesn't remove the problems the console version has.

I hate seeing this argument mainly because it is flat out wrong.  In 2003 it cost me $2000 for my P4 2.5Ghz rig (I put it together).  I built my i7 925 with gtx260 and 6gigs of ram PC last year.  It cost me $900.  Ibuypower has ready-made gaming rigs starting at $824.  I saw an i7 950 for $1039.  So please stop using this argument because it doesn't hold water anymore.

[Killjoy Cutter]

wookieeassassin wrote...
There is one thing in both games that is trivial but still doesn't make sense and it is that most skills hit an enemy even if your teammates don't have a line of sight. I guess your teammate AI would have to be a lot more competent to make it where they must have a line of sight.

On the other hand, anything that even slightly blocks your crosshairs also blocks the powers for your squadmates, and may cause their powers to go off in Shep's face if the blocking object is too close.

[Mir5]

To put it clean and simple:



Mass Effect 2 sacrifices too much logical credibility to make the story twist in the ways the writers wish.



This leads into complete breaks of immersion. This usually happen around the Reapers and Collectors, and the final boss and the conversation before it are the worst one. And the resurrection, and any time someone talks about genetics. I liked the first game because it felt like it aknowledged that the line between organics and machines is weak, Mass 2 feels different. Too much old world views, sloppy writing, the world doesn't feel believable if you scrutinize it.

Even with forerunner technology, the thirst for knowledge wouldn't fade away. Not in any species.