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[P3G4SU5]

Merlin 47 wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Merlin 47 wrote...

Heldelance wrote...

Quick question...
What would be the reaction if they were to add jumping and crouching onto ME3 or subsequent games?

I had enough problems with crouching in ME 1.

No thanks.

Mind if I ask what the problems were exactly?

It was too easy to crouch at times during a firefight, simply depressing the stick.  Also, crouching to go into low cover was also very clunky to me.  On my second playthrough of ME 1, I avoided crouching as much as possible.  When I first played ME 2, I was rather glad to see they fixed how crouching worked when going to low cover and got rid of it altogether.

Ah my experiences with crouching were rather different as I placed on the PC - it's harder to accidently press a key that's only assigned to one action. Personally I never found the crouching clunky - it functioned properly on the PC version at least. The cover system on the other hand was a little sticky. At times crouching did help you to place yourself in more defensive positions than the available wall cover, and it would have been nice in ME2 to still have the ability to crouch for situations such as when rockets are speeding towards you and you're in open ground, allowing you to duck and watch them sail overhead.

On the other hand I'm not sure jumping would serve any useful function. The cover vault/ledge climb works pretty well and there wouldn't be any combat advantage from having jumping capabilities unless the player wishes to bunnyhop when dodging incoming fire.

[Fiery Phoenix]

smudboy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Once again, I agree with iakus.

Heldelance wrote...

Quick question...
What would be the reaction if they were to add jumping and crouching onto ME3 or subsequent games?

Oh, I'd like that. I don't feel like we enjoy much freedom of physical movement in ME. Shepard is very stiff and unwieldy in this way.

I really would like Shepard to be able to perform more physical animations in general.

Crouching
Sitting in chairs
Grabbing enemies as shields
Jumping
Performing biotic melee

Add to those blindfiring and I will be 100% satisfied gameplay-wise.

[Turin_4]

I think biotic melee would be cool, it's true, though in terms of good 'gameplay writing' I'd be happier if they had biotic-able environment, though that would be much harder to implement.



Oh, and sign me up for someone who was quite disappointed in the lack of armor options for anyone but Shepard, particularly since it seemed to mean deliberate oversexing of the women. I mean, it's the 21st century, if I want porn, the Internet is a few buttons away. Having Miranda going into a fight as a pinup in skintight leathers and heels is just ridiculous, mass effect fields or not.

[smudboy]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Add to those blindfiring and I will be 100% satisfied gameplay-wise.

Funny.  I seem to recall Shepard blindfiring in that CGI trailer with Thane and Grunt...

...and Thane doing a dodge/roll...

A basic rule of cutscenes: don't let characters in cutscenes do things the player can't do themselves.

Modifié par smudboy, 02 octobre 2010 - 02:03 .

[P3G4SU5]

Turin_4 wrote...
Oh, and sign me up for someone who was quite disappointed in the lack of armor options for anyone but Shepard, particularly since it seemed to mean deliberate oversexing of the women. Having Miranda going into a fight as a pinup in skintight leathers and heels is just ridiculous, mass effect fields or not.

smudboy wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...
Add to those blindfiring and I will be 100% satisfied gameplay-wise.

Funny.  I seem to recall Shepard blindfiring in that CGI trailer with Thane and Grunt...

^^All of this.

[Big I]

My major complaint with ME2 was story, most of which has already been covered here (Shepard dying, joining Cerberus, Collectors are boring, etc) but there's one thing I really wanted them to answer: why do I need these specialists?

There are only two people it makes sense to pick up from a "necessary for the mission" perspective, Mordin (for the countermeasure you use once) and Okeer (for his dealings with the Collectors). We are never told why we're told to pick up anyone else apart from they're awesome. For example, Jack. Why do I need the most powerful human biotic specifically? I already have 2 biotics in Miranda and Jacob. I may well BE a biotic. What does she bring to the table that others don't? Or Samara, or even Garrus and Tali (apart from a "I need people I trust" vibe)?

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 02 octobre 2010 - 03:56 .

[Rhomer]

Before you read I loved ME2
1.I didnt like the fact that the mission complete screen kept coming up...it interrupted the experience
2.I didnt like being spoonfed the story to specific points in the game. I loved the story I just didn't like it funneling. I preferred more like what ME1 did and you see and chose different parts of the story based on what was available like whether to go to Feros or Noveria.
3. I thing the hammerhead should be included in missions like the one ME1 had on Feros I had fun playing and fighting on those huge bridges. It made it feel epic and the environment itself was awesome.
4. I didnt like how linear some Hub places felt like Omega. I mean it was too small
5. I didnt like the End boss fight...it felt like I was in X-Men not Mass Effect aka the drones that hunt mutants
6. Needs More Space Opera... more drama
7. Weapons weren't customizable I hated that. They didn't feel necessarily mine.
8. More interaction between EDI and Joker. I felt there was something there I just didnt see all the funny things I could have.
9. Needed some more environments where you would feel that you were in a Galaxy inhabited by long Extinct races. aka Feros Ilos
10. More Legion dialogue
11. Wanted to see more carnage like Eden Prime then when on Horizon. ME3 shouldn't be just bugs flying around and putting people in freeze mode, Wanna see terror like the Geth and Sovereign created on Eden Prime. I will say great use of the Bugs in the end.
12. I wished that the enemies in mass effect 2 were more interesting...give them more allure like the Geth had or even Sovereign. I thought you guys did a good job with Harbinger but alas his Collector Flunkies suffered from no real backstory or Mystery to them...  I could see you tried but they had less. Simple discovering they are Prothean isn't enough. You guys did a good job showing this also with Blue Suns and Zaeed.  I guess the more connecting relationships you have with between these enemies like Saren with Geth. or Sovereign and Saren, the more interesting they are. For instance there is still alot of mystery about the Reapers other than they wanna kill everything I always got that from ME1 so play on that strong point. Is there involvement in destroying life more elaborate or are they really that wooden as to just wanting to destroy a few civilizations here and there?

 

Modifié par Rhomer, 02 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Moiaussi]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

My major complaint with ME2 was story, most of which has already been covered here (Shepard dying, joining Cerberus, Collectors are boring, etc) but there's one thing I really wanted them to answer: why do I need these specialists?

There are only two people it makes sense to pick up from a "necessary for the mission" perspective, Mordin (for the countermeasure you use once) and Okeer (for his dealings with the Collectors). We are never told why we're told to pick up anyone else apart from they're awesome. For example, Jack. Why do I need the most powerful human biotic specifically? I already have 2 biotics in Miranda and Jacob. I may well BE a biotic. What does she bring to the table that others don't? Or Samara, or even Garrus and Tali (apart from a "I need people I trust" vibe)?

Needed a biotic for 'the long walk', and for some reason a biotic shepard doesn't count (because the AI is too stupid to keep you alive while you would be holding up the barrier, and because it was likely deemed boring if you are watching while they try.

[Rhomer]

ME2 needed a stronger blend of art,story, and gameplay. Which I thought started to see looking very promising in Liar of The Shadow Broker

[Lee-gion]

Moiaussi wrote...

Needed a biotic for 'the long walk', and for some reason a biotic shepard doesn't count (because the AI is too stupid to keep you alive while you would be holding up the barrier, and because it was likely deemed boring if you are watching while they try.

But we didn't even know there would be a 'long walk', barring metagaming. So it's just 'lucky' that we happened to recruit a biotic specialist.

[Big I]

Lee-gion wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Needed a biotic for 'the long walk', and for some reason a biotic shepard doesn't count (because the AI is too stupid to keep you alive while you would be holding up the barrier, and because it was likely deemed boring if you are watching while they try.

But we didn't even know there would be a 'long walk', barring metagaming. So it's just 'lucky' that we happened to recruit a biotic specialist.

Exactly. It's like TIM's plan was this:

TIM: "I want you to recruit a crew of dangerous killers."
Shepard: "How will that stop the Collectors?"
TIM: "I'm sure it'll work out somehow."

[Iakus]

Turin_4 wrote...

I think biotic melee would be cool, it's true, though in terms of good 'gameplay writing' I'd be happier if they had biotic-able environment, though that would be much harder to implement.

Oh, and sign me up for someone who was quite disappointed in the lack of armor options for anyone but Shepard, particularly since it seemed to mean deliberate oversexing of the women. I mean, it's the 21st century, if I want porn, the Internet is a few buttons away. Having Miranda going into a fight as a pinup in skintight leathers and heels is just ridiculous, mass effect fields or not.

On this I agree 100%.  Was the story so weak they had to provide eye-candy to distract the players?

[Iakus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

My major complaint with ME2 was story, most of which has already been covered here (Shepard dying, joining Cerberus, Collectors are boring, etc) but there's one thing I really wanted them to answer: why do I need these specialists?

There are only two people it makes sense to pick up from a "necessary for the mission" perspective, Mordin (for the countermeasure you use once) and Okeer (for his dealings with the Collectors). We are never told why we're told to pick up anyone else apart from they're awesome. For example, Jack. Why do I need the most powerful human biotic specifically? I already have 2 biotics in Miranda and Jacob. I may well BE a biotic. What does she bring to the table that others don't? Or Samara, or even Garrus and Tali (apart from a "I need people I trust" vibe)?

This.

I would have felt a lot better if the Collector Base had been learned about back on Freedom's Progress rather than the Collector Ship.  Then I could at least have pretended that Cerberus analysts had studied the layout. The dossiers TIM gives Shep could  then make some sort of logical sense.

[Rhomer]

To quote someone using videos take a look at this



Bioware I shake my head at you but I still have faith

[Iakus]

Rhomer wrote...

To quote someone using videos take a look at this

Bioware I shake my head at you but I still have faith

Indeed.  You should see his videos on plot and character analysis.  His humor's not for everyone.  But he knows what he's talking about and makes excellent points.

[demongirl420]

can't afford all the dlc!

[Therion942]

iakus wrote...



On this I agree 100%.  Was the story so weak they had to provide eye-candy to distract the players?

Uh. Yes. I believe that was the complete and entire idea behind ME2 "We had abso-****ing-lutely nothing, here throw a thousand superficial things at our audience, ignore the rhetorical triangle completely, and hope nobody will bother digging a little deeper than the surface."

And for the most part, it worked. That's not a good thing.

[Moiaussi]

Lee-gion wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Needed a biotic for 'the long walk', and for some reason a biotic shepard doesn't count (because the AI is too stupid to keep you alive while you would be holding up the barrier, and because it was likely deemed boring if you are watching while they try.

But we didn't even know there would be a 'long walk', barring metagaming. So it's just 'lucky' that we happened to recruit a biotic specialist.

Never were a boy scout I take it.... "Be Prepared" is the scout motto. Bringing a wide variety of talents when you don't know what skills will be needed is prudent, not metagaming. In fact it is metagaming to insist that it should be just as possible no matter what combination of skills and/or gear you bring with you.

[Iakus]

Therion942 wrote...

Uh. Yes. I believe that was the complete and entire idea behind ME2 "We had abso-****ing-lutely nothing, here throw a thousand superficial things at our audience, ignore the rhetorical triangle completely, and hope nobody will bother digging a little deeper than the surface."

The saddest thing is, several of these superficial things could have been an absolute gold mine of material:  The Collectors, building (and keeping) loyalty, the whole "working for the bad guy" thing, even the Suicide mission could have been a truly intricate and amazing experience.  But in the end, ithey were all kept as superficial excuses to run down narrow corridors shooting things

And for the most part, it worked. That's not a good thing.

It's no KOTOR, that's for sure.

[Epic777]

smudboy wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Add to those blindfiring and I will be 100% satisfied gameplay-wise.

Funny.  I seem to recall Shepard blindfiring in that CGI trailer with Thane and Grunt...

...and Thane doing a dodge/roll...

A basic rule of cutscenes: don't let characters in cutscenes do things the player can't do themselves.

To quote grunt:HA!

[Pocketgb]

Oh goodness, it's back!



I'll say one thing and one thing only:

ME1: "Too hot!"

ME2: "Too cold!"



And since I fancy myself in winter I prefer it when things are chilly.

[Iakus]

Moiaussi wrote...

Lee-gion wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Needed a biotic for 'the long walk', and for some reason a biotic shepard doesn't count (because the AI is too stupid to keep you alive while you would be holding up the barrier, and because it was likely deemed boring if you are watching while they try.

But we didn't even know there would be a 'long walk', barring metagaming. So it's just 'lucky' that we happened to recruit a biotic specialist.

Never were a boy scout I take it.... "Be Prepared" is the scout motto. Bringing a wide variety of talents when you don't know what skills will be needed is prudent, not metagaming. In fact it is metagaming to insist that it should be just as possible no matter what combination of skills and/or gear you bring with you.

The problem here is how deep a skill pool do we really have?  We've got a squad ideally certain for raiding a base full of Collectors with handheld weapons.  But what if...

...there was a squadron of fighters guarding the other end of the Relay?
...the Collector base had ground emplacements, or worse, if Harbringer was there?
...it wasn't a Collector base, but a Collector planet.  With millions or even billion of them?
...there were tens of thousandds of human refugees to rescue, rather than just the Normandy crew?

Not that any of these would have been better or worse, story-wise.  But any of these would have required a different set of talents and equipment to succeed.  Yet TIM conveniently sets us out to get a squad with this particular skillset well before we know what is to be attacked and under what conditions.

[Moiaussi]

iakus wrote...

The problem here is how deep a skill pool do we really have?  We've got a squad ideally certain for raiding a base full of Collectors with handheld weapons.  But what if...

...there was a squadron of fighters guarding the other end of the Relay?
...the Collector base had ground emplacements, or worse, if Harbringer was there?
...it wasn't a Collector base, but a Collector planet.  With millions or even billion of them?
...there were tens of thousandds of human refugees to rescue, rather than just the Normandy crew?

Not that any of these would have been better or worse, story-wise.  But any of these would have required a different set of talents and equipment to succeed.  Yet TIM conveniently sets us out to get a squad with this particular skillset well before we know what is to be attacked and under what conditions.

That goes to my criticism that nothing was encountered that couldn't have been better dealt with by conventional naval forces, but that is a completely different approach. On the assumption that small unit tactics were the right weapon, the choice of members for the unit covered a wider range. 

Oh, and if Harbinger was there then small unit tactics would have been the only chance, because there is no navy able to stand up to the reapers yet. Frankly though since Harbinger is with the Reaper fleet it would really just mean civilization is doomed... again....

It would have been a better game if they had found the collectors had a world, multiple bases, etc, were forced to flee for their lives and barely managed to seal off the relay somehow buying a few years time, but this time bringing back conclusive evidence of the threat.... rather than nothing at all..... they didn't even buy time really....

[Therion942]

iakus wrote...



Not that any of these would have been better or worse, story-wise.  But any of these would have required a different set of talents and equipment to succeed.  Yet TIM conveniently sets us out to get a squad with this particular skillset well before we know what is to be attacked and under what conditions.

What's annoing is that 85% of these issues (I love pulling statistics out of my rear, but bear with me) could be solved with a line or two of dialogue, not some monumental task of writing genius. Shepard asks the illusive man "We don't know what we're up against, why are you asking me to gather a team?" The Illusive Man then shows us some damning intelligence that points more to the fact that there is no collector homeworld and blah blah blah you get the picture. Yeah sure this tells about the Collector's plot-induced stupidity but I'd rather be able to go "well that's just silly" than "that doesn't make any sense"

Because there are identifiable threads that connect to the silly thing in the first place, the thing that doesn't make sense has a half finished bridge and a big rig hanging over it.

[Kai Hohiro]

Moiaussi wrote...
That goes to my criticism that nothing was encountered that couldn't have been better dealt with by conventional naval forces, but that is a completely different approach. 

Where should they have gotten a Naval force from? Cerberus doesn't have one conviniently sitting around. Sure Cerberus has space stations and ships, but nothing to wage an all out assault.

It would have been a better game if they had found the collectors had a world, multiple bases, etc, were forced to flee for their lives and barely managed to seal off the relay somehow buying a few years time, but this time bringing back conclusive evidence of the threat.... rather than nothing at all..... they didn't even buy time really....

This game is a Heist plot. Not sure if you know the slightest thing about storytelling, but the whole point of it is that the majority of the story is building up the team and ressources in order to complete the heist at the end (Dirty Dozen, Ocean's Eleven, etc)
What kind of heist would it be if they arrived at their target location, decided it's too much and flew home?
That would be a godawful ending.

And in fact they  have brought back the schematics as you can see in the outro. That is probably the most critical thing they could've gotten.

Modifié par Kai Hohiro, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:48 .