172 réponses à ce sujet

[aznsoisauce]

So, we've seen some people post about how Tevinter and Dalish mages seem to be doing well...no abom problems and all that. I would assume that not letting out demons from the Fade is then common sense amongst mages. That being said...it's makes me think that when it happens in Mage Towers, they're doing it on purpose - not because they were tricked or whatever.

[/obvious]

[Risax]

DMC12 wrote...

Risax wrote...

What about Finn?
He knows his parents. His mother even made him that awfull mage hat.

Haha! That hat was awesome, I like to think it's mostly a reference to the terrible mage hats in DA...

I think it's one of the may inconsistences in DA though. Wynne doesn't know where her kid is and thinks about him (think it was a him) everyday. Then again, maybe she just didn't follow up on the tyke, knowing she couldn't be a mother to him.

Well maybe Finn was given to the Circle when he was born, but when it was found out that he has magic powers. He was send to the Circle and they raised him anyway.

Either that or they visited him at the Circle, if people have the right to visit their relatives in the Circle.

[HopHazzard]

Risax wrote...

DMC12 wrote...

Risax wrote...

What about Finn?
He knows his parents. His mother even made him that awfull mage hat.

Haha! That hat was awesome, I like to think it's mostly a reference to the terrible mage hats in DA...

I think it's one of the may inconsistences in DA though. Wynne doesn't know where her kid is and thinks about him (think it was a him) everyday. Then again, maybe she just didn't follow up on the tyke, knowing she couldn't be a mother to him.

Well maybe Finn was given to the Circle when he was born, but when it was found out that he has magic powers. He was send to the Circle and they raised him anyway.

Either that or they visited him at the Circle, if people have the right to visit their relatives in the Circle.

I think whether or not parents stay in touch with their children when they're taken into the Circle is entirely up to them. I imagine it's more about sending letters than actual visiting. Seems like parental reaction to finding out your kid is a mage runs the gamut from thinking they're demon spawn to being quite proud.

[Drasanil]

Eamon is able to visit his children in the circle, but then again it is kind of hard to turn down a powerfull Arl...

[HopHazzard]

Drasanil wrote...

Eamon is able to visit his children in the circle, but then again it is kind of hard to turn down a powerfull Arl...

I wasn't really thinking it was forbidden. Just that in a world where it can take days or even weeks to get from one place to another, your average person isn't going to have that kind of time. Rich and powerful people like Eamon are of course, a different story.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The mages aren't forbidden contact with their parents, they just aren't going to be raised by them. If their parents still want to they can go visit their mage child (probably after a certain amount of time). IIRC Conner (if saved) are sent to the circle and Eamon still visits him there.

[Dhiro]

Be a mage that came from a caring family must suck. I mean, eventually they'll die and you won't ever know about it because nobody will visit you anymore. But it's better have and lost than never have it, right?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Dhiro wrote...

Be a mage that came from a caring family must suck. I mean, eventually they'll die and you won't ever know about it because nobody will visit you anymore. But it's better have and lost than never have it, right?

Well, if it were a caring family I'd figure they'd at least write you when one of them was dying or dead. And if you've passed your harrowing and the First Enchanter is in a nice mood he may even give you leave to visit.

[Dhiro]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Be a mage that came from a caring family must suck. I mean, eventually they'll die and you won't ever know about it because nobody will visit you anymore. But it's better have and lost than never have it, right?

Well, if it were a caring family I'd figure they'd at least write you when one of them was dying or dead. And if you've passed your harrowing and the First Enchanter is in a nice mood he may even give you leave to visit.

Hmm... I suppose that's true. Maybe this make the live in the circle more bearable to some mages, in fact.

[Riona45]

I got the distinct impression that Finn came from a moneyed background--how else were his parents able to shower him with numerous expensive gifts?

[David Gaider]

Risax wrote...
So a lot of mages end up in the Circle of Magi, but how did they get there?

Through the front door.

Did their parents give them off wilingly?

Sometimes, sure.

Like Jowans mother, after he had shown his magical abilities his mother ignored him and called him 'demon child' or 'abomination'. And after a while his father dropped him of at the local chantry where the Templars picked him up.

Maybe it's just me, but I think teenagers that can't throw fireballs are scary enough.

But what happens to parents like Isolde, who try to keep there children at home?

Usually they're charged with having broken a law-- not by the templars, but by the regular authorities. Do you think those authorities want mages lurking about in their cities? Not a chance. It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

Do all un-educated mages eventually become abominations no matter what their age?

Of course not. Not all mages become abominations or blood mages. The fact that they could do it is what makes them so terrifying. If you knew your neighbour was a mage, someone who could turn into an abomination and kill you even without him wanting to? Or someone that might steal your children to use their blood, or read your mind? How comfortable would you feel about that?

That's if people even think it through that far. Once upon a time, mages ruled the known world with terrifying power, and the Chantry tells them that, given the chance, that could happen again. And not without reason.

[upsettingshorts]

David Gaider wrote...
It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

 
As a veteran Babylon 5 fan who watched five seasons of a well-written show that contained hand-wringing over  telepaths and their oversight agency - The Psicorps - I have no such scruples.

Them folks are dangerous. 

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

/rant over
//the first person to try to compare my argument to those endorsing ethnic cleansing or Jim Crow gets a spanking

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

David Gaider wrote...
That's if people even think it through that far. Once upon a time, mages ruled the known world with terrifying power, and the Chantry tells them that, given the chance, that could happen again. And not without reason.

Speaking of which, are we ever going to learn more about the Tevinter Imperium in its zenith? From sources outside the Chantry that are more objective? And how they delt with mages and the demon threat / abominations..etc?

Because as of yet, most if not all sources (elven and Chantry) seem to potray it as the ultimate evil. But it seems to me that, despite its excesses (that we are told of, not really sure of), that it was still a great civilisation.
In essence, I am wondering if a mage aristocracy / magocracy can't create a better or equal system than what we have already and I am wondering about the details in how they delt with mages. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

Well, you do run into some Tevinter fellas. You know, the ones gathering up elves in the Alienage and selling them into slavery. So I'd say at the very least they are to be regarded with suspicion.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, you do run into some Tevinter fellas. You know, the ones gathering up elves in the Alienage and selling them into slavery. So I'd say at the very least they are to be regarded with suspicion.

I am talkign about the old Tevinter Imperium, when it ruled over much of Thedas. Not the present Imperium.

And yes, I am fully aware that the old Imperium practised slavery. Doesn't necessarily make it a not great civilisation.

[Morroian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

At least the Psicorp were telepaths therefore telepaths were governing telepaths even if they were oppressive. Mages in DA don't even have that, yet I maintain that the most effective method of governing against mages going rogue/abomination are other mages, properly trained, not drug addicted templars.

Modifié par Morroian, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:59 .

[upsettingshorts]

Indeed, but Psicorps was founded by a modern civilization with an established bureaucratic system in a liberal democracy. So I set the bar slightly higher than I would for a medieval monarchy with theocratic influences. In any case, the comparison was more in regards to a dangerous group that needs to be observed and regulated for a number of reasons than the precise nature of both organizations.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:39 .

[Generic Guy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

 
As a veteran Babylon 5 fan who watched five seasons of a well-written show that contained hand-wringing over  telepaths and their oversight agency - The Psicorps - I have no such scruples.

Them folks are dangerous. 

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

/rant over
//the first person to try to compare my argument to those endorsing ethnic cleansing or Jim Crow gets a spanking

 
I agree with you. My perspective when it comes to mages is human beings have committed murder, rape, genocide, and a host of other horrific things, and all with the power of only two hands and a will. What could a human with the power to call fire from the sky or take away someones free will with just a thought do? I don't distrust mages necessarily because their different, I distrust them because they are human.

[Everwarden]

I knew it! I knew it!! Gaider is a mage hating Chantry fanboy!





..yes, I'm just kidding.

Modifié par Everwarden, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

foodstuffs wrote...

Why would any tutoring have to be done inside the Circle, and thus under the supervision of the Chantry?

Because containment. If a mages goes beserk, uses blood magic or turns into an abomination, he is contained inside the tower and can't hurt the pesants in the village, his mother/father, little sister and whomever.
Also, training mages is a investment of time and money, and doing on a large scale requires a powerfull organizations to do it.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Given
that templars are referenced as mage-hunters, I'm guessing it's a big
part of their identity. Considering that the Chantry wiped out the
towns of Nocen Fields and Marnus Pell because the people converted to
the Qun, I doubt that their soldiers would treat illegal mages any
differently.

Unsupported claim. You cna't use that as evidence of anything.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Everwarden wrote...

I knew it! I knew it!! Gaider is a mage hating Chantry fanboy!

No, He is the Maker. And you do not go agaisnt the Maker. Everyone knows that.

[marshalleck]

Generic Guy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

 
As a veteran Babylon 5 fan who watched five seasons of a well-written show that contained hand-wringing over  telepaths and their oversight agency - The Psicorps - I have no such scruples.

Them folks are dangerous. 

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

/rant over
//the first person to try to compare my argument to those endorsing ethnic cleansing or Jim Crow gets a spanking

 
I agree with you. My perspective when it comes to mages is human beings have committed murder, rape, genocide, and a host of other horrific things, and all with the power of only two hands and a will. What could a human with the power to call fire from the sky or take away someones free will with just a thought do? I don't distrust mages necessarily because their different, I distrust them because they are human.

Typical human arrogance again. Not all mages are human; some are elves. You humans are all racist. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:12 .

[Daerog]

marshalleck wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

 
As a veteran Babylon 5 fan who watched five seasons of a well-written show that contained hand-wringing over  telepaths and their oversight agency - The Psicorps - I have no such scruples.

Them folks are dangerous. 

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

/rant over
//the first person to try to compare my argument to those endorsing ethnic cleansing or Jim Crow gets a spanking

 
I agree with you. My perspective when it comes to mages is human beings have committed murder, rape, genocide, and a host of other horrific things, and all with the power of only two hands and a will. What could a human with the power to call fire from the sky or take away someones free will with just a thought do? I don't distrust mages necessarily because their different, I distrust them because they are human.

Typical human arrogance again. Not all mages are human; some are elves. You humans are all racist. 

Ha! I laughed. I guess it's late.

[Risax]

marshalleck wrote...

Generic Guy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
It's easy to think of mages as poor, oppressed souls until you consider what they can do.

 
As a veteran Babylon 5 fan who watched five seasons of a well-written show that contained hand-wringing over  telepaths and their oversight agency - The Psicorps - I have no such scruples.

Them folks are dangerous. 

I think the "poor oppressed souls" people tend to think of mages as people.  People deserve rights and freedom, and I'm not gonna dispute that.  But mages and telepaths (****** superior in B5) aren't normal humans, their nature does in fact make them objectively dangerous.  And that's not prejudice, that's reality.  Does that mean that mages in DA and telepaths in B5 couldn't be good and moral?  Of course not.  But their existence warrants concern and oversight.

/rant over
//the first person to try to compare my argument to those endorsing ethnic cleansing or Jim Crow gets a spanking

 
I agree with you. My perspective when it comes to mages is human beings have committed murder, rape, genocide, and a host of other horrific things, and all with the power of only two hands and a will. What could a human with the power to call fire from the sky or take away someones free will with just a thought do? I don't distrust mages necessarily because their different, I distrust them because they are human.

Typical human arrogance again. Not all mages are human; some are elves. You humans are all racist. 

Yes, but since the elves lost much of their own culture and all. They probably picked up some quirks from humans.
And even if that isn't true, an elf in the Mage Origins says:'I rather have humans fear me then look down on me'.
Meaning that he wouldn't mind rainig some fire on us if he had the chance.

[Koffeegirl]

The mages time will come again in DA2......at least as much as it can on my apostate mage play-through:)