2146 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Keep: May not fully trust TIM but feel the Reapers are the greater threat. Feel TIM can be killed/taken care of if he goes too far. Feels base (because Reapers are built there) has information that could be instrumental in defeating them. Feels Reaper failsafes (if they're even there) are to also be studied and countered. Feels no one else is preparing against the Reapers except for Cerberus as the Council continues to deny their existence. Feels work relationship with Cerberus can be reconcilled and justified in the eyes of the galaxy (in light of the Reaper threat).

I'd like to point out -- and this is just me -- that eternal machine gods that destroy the galaxy every 50k years, are a greater threat than your emotions.  Just tossing that one out there.

[upsettingshorts]

smudboy wrote...

I'd like to point out -- and this is just me -- that eternal machine gods that destroy the galaxy every 50k years, are a greater threat than your emotions.  Just tossing that one out there.

But Martin Sheen TIM is a jerk who misleads Shepard a couple times and may have known about the abuse of children by one of his cells!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:16 .

[Sajuro]

smudboy wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Keep: May not fully trust TIM but feel the Reapers are the greater threat. Feel TIM can be killed/taken care of if he goes too far. Feels base (because Reapers are built there) has information that could be instrumental in defeating them. Feels Reaper failsafes (if they're even there) are to also be studied and countered. Feels no one else is preparing against the Reapers except for Cerberus as the Council continues to deny their existence. Feels work relationship with Cerberus can be reconcilled and justified in the eyes of the galaxy (in light of the Reaper threat).

I'd like to point out -- and this is just me -- that eternal machine gods that destroy the galaxy every 50k years, are a greater threat than your emotions.  Just tossing that one out there.

Ah yes "Reapers" a race of immortal, sentient starships that allegedly live in darkspace: we've dismissed this claim.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

smudboy wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Keep: May not fully trust TIM but feel the Reapers are the greater threat. Feel TIM can be killed/taken care of if he goes too far. Feels base (because Reapers are built there) has information that could be instrumental in defeating them. Feels Reaper failsafes (if they're even there) are to also be studied and countered. Feels no one else is preparing against the Reapers except for Cerberus as the Council continues to deny their existence. Feels work relationship with Cerberus can be reconcilled and justified in the eyes of the galaxy (in light of the Reaper threat).

I'd like to point out -- and this is just me -- that eternal machine gods that destroy the galaxy every 50k years, are a greater threat than your emotions.  Just tossing that one out there.

lol, not just you.  It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.


EDIT:  Posting this again for the new page:

General Consensus I get from both sides are:

Destroy: Don't trust TIM. Hopes Council was lying to them and are really getting ready for the Reapers (in the face of outright denial from them). Will find a way to beat them without messing with/understanding/countering Reaper technology (fears Reaper failsafes, if any are there) . Feels that though the base built Reapers, it contained nothing useful. Feels previous work relationship with Cerberus can be forgotten if they found out you blew up the base (in the eyes of the galaxy who still mostly believe you're dead).  Feels a united, galactic effort against the Reapers will win more than understanding them.

Keep: May not fully trust TIM but feel the Reapers are the greater threat. Feel TIM can be killed/taken care of if he goes too far. Feels base (because Reapers are built there) has information that could be instrumental in defeating them. Feels Reaper failsafes (if they're even there) are to also be studied and countered. Feels no one else is preparing against the Reapers except for Cerberus as the Council continues to deny their existence. Feels work relationship with Cerberus can be reconcilled and justified in the eyes of the galaxy (in light of the Reaper threat).  Feels exploiting a weakness of/countering the Reapers themselves will win more than attacking with large numbers.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Spectre_907]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

[jbblue05]

Sajuro wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only dreadnought that was fielded at the battle of the citadel was trying to get out of there as fast as possible. We have yet to see how a Dreadnought fairs against a Reaper, not saying it will do that well but it should be able to do something.

But there is one thing the Reapers never counted on
That Humanity, in the face of: Bullets, Peace Treaties, Turians, and Sanity... would dare to be Bad Ass!

Reaper shields are impervous to dreadnought fire

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

Ah yeah that's right, nevermind.

[jbblue05]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

by the weapon Cerberus recovered

[Sajuro]

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

Thanks to Shepard and his continued tradition of blowing **** up, all I'm doing by destroying the collector base is keeping said tradition alive

[Yeti13]

I'm pro Alien, I believe Humans can only achieve their potential by working with and having a mutually beneficial relationship with the other species. TIM does not believe in this and has a pro human (or pro Cerberus to be frank) Agenda. He considers himself as close to a God as can be and uses people to achieve his goals. He may do good things for humanity occasionally but almost 100% of time he goes about it in a way that I do not condone. I choose not to give him a base that will almost certainly give him the edge he needs to control the other races. This I can not allow!

[upsettingshorts]

Sajuro wrote...
Thanks to Shepard and his continued tradition of blowing **** up, all I'm doing by destroying the collector base is keeping said tradition alive

The Derelict Reaper - actively or not - forced Shepard's hand by trapping him on board.  He had to blow up the ship's power in order to leave, and the ship's power was what was holding it in orbit.  

He didn't just blow it up for kicks.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Here's a question.



Would you give advanced technology to Stalin if it could stop Hitler? Or would you rather defeat Hitler on your terms?



Answer that question for me.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Are you saying that you're strong enough to defeat this Hitler on your terms? Will this Hitler wipe out everyone on the face of the earth otherwise? Will you be the (or a) arm of Stalin while doing this?

[upsettingshorts]

It's a strawman. Even an answer in the affirmative weakens your position by acknowledging the comparison is even valid.



It's not.

[Spectre_907]

jbblue05 wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

by the weapon Cerberus recovered

The mass accelerator weapon the Etamisians ancient race used? I thought it was the Reaper's mass effect core we blew up, causing it to fall in Mnemosyne's atmosphere.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The comparison isn't valid, but I was humoring it anyway


And yes you do destroy the Mass Effect core that puts the Reaper on a free-fall into the dwarf.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 03:47 .

[Yeti13]

hmmmm, seeing as the Red army had the most advanced tank design in WW2 and that every tank in the world after it was based on it, i say i wouldn't need to. Stalin was not a nice dude but I'm not going to discredit the millions of soldiers who had to die because of two giant Egos

[jbblue05]

Spectre_907 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

by the weapon Cerberus recovered

The mass accelerator weapon the Etamisians ancient race used? I thought it was the Reaper's mass effect core we blew up, causing it to fall in Mnemosyne's atmosphere.

The reaper was immboilized by the weapon but its mass effect core and indoctrination program was still online.
Shepard destroyed the mass effect core that cuased it to plummet  into the brown dwarf

[scotchtape622]

Arijharn wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

While smud and I had a debate about this, and he disagreed, my primary reason for it was dialogue like this (paraphrased):

"For all I know, you'll use it to build your own Reaper!"
"You know that I'll do anything..." (not sure of the exact words)

I call that hyperbole to illustrate just how ruthless TIM could be, not as an admission that he could or even would make a Reaper.

I made a nice analogy I think a couple of pages back about whether the burgers were actually better at Hungry Jacks (or is that Burger King where you live?).

It doesn't matter if it is hyperbole, just like it doesn't matter if Bioware is planning on letting us defeat the Reapers without the Collector Base.

The fact is, that is how I percieved it, and I am RPing not Metagaming.

Combine that with the fact that the Council races will not want to work with me if I work with Cerberus, and I don't think the risk:reward ration is good enough to keep the base.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

scotchtape622 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

While smud and I had a debate about this, and he disagreed, my primary reason for it was dialogue like this (paraphrased):

"For all I know, you'll use it to build your own Reaper!"
"You know that I'll do anything..." (not sure of the exact words)

I call that hyperbole to illustrate just how ruthless TIM could be, not as an admission that he could or even would make a Reaper.

I made a nice analogy I think a couple of pages back about whether the burgers were actually better at Hungry Jacks (or is that Burger King where you live?).

It doesn't matter if it is hyperbole, just like it doesn't matter if Bioware is planning on letting us defeat the Reapers without the Collector Base.

The fact is, that is how I percieved it, and I am RPing not Metagaming.

Combine that with the fact that the Council races will not want to work with me if I work with Cerberus, and I don't think the risk:reward ration is good enough to keep the base.

My simple answer to that is more facts. EDI already said it'd take millions or more people to build a Reaper. If he even began to start that, he'd be finished before he began.

If you keep the base, you warn TIM about getting "selfish" and "dreaming about power". You can also warn TIM that you won't "sacrifice the soul of humanity" and to "Remember that (because if TIM has to die, he will)."

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[scotchtape622]

One strike to a largely populated world, using the weapons tech they get from the Collectors (plus Seeker Swarms), and they could easily make a Reaper. They wouldn't even need to use humans.



Also, when I'm making my decision on the base, I don't know that I'm going to even get to "warn" TIM at all, he may not want to talk with me.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

One strike to a largely poplulated world would be enough to destroy the Collector base for good if necessary.

Plus, all Collectors are dead, wiped out by the pulse.  There's no living thing there anymore.

You also warn TIM at the end of ME2 in one way or another, there's no avoiding it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:18 .

[scotchtape622]

1. What?



2. I know, in the game you can't avoid it, but my Shepard doesn't know that.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

1. It's easy to return to the Collector Base should you so choose and blow it up when it's only full of scientists and maybe a few mercs.



2. Your Shepard should know that because keeping the Base is what TIM wants and he'd of course want to congratulate you on getting it.

[Spectre_907]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

While smud and I had a debate about this, and he disagreed, my primary reason for it was dialogue like this (paraphrased):

"For all I know, you'll use it to build your own Reaper!"
"You know that I'll do anything..." (not sure of the exact words)

I call that hyperbole to illustrate just how ruthless TIM could be, not as an admission that he could or even would make a Reaper.

I made a nice analogy I think a couple of pages back about whether the burgers were actually better at Hungry Jacks (or is that Burger King where you live?).

It doesn't matter if it is hyperbole, just like it doesn't matter if Bioware is planning on letting us defeat the Reapers without the Collector Base.

The fact is, that is how I percieved it, and I am RPing not Metagaming.

Combine that with the fact that the Council races will not want to work with me if I work with Cerberus, and I don't think the risk:reward ration is good enough to keep the base.

My simple answer to that is more facts. EDI already said it'd take millions or more people to build a Reaper. If he even began to start that, he'd be finished before he began.

If you keep the base, you warn TIM about getting "selfish" and "dreaming about power". You can also warn TIM that you won't "sacrifice the soul of humanity" and to "Remember that (because if TIM has to die, he will)."

Killing TIM could solve the "I have to give the only means of stopping the Reapers to a pro-human group I hate backing because I love aliens" predicament for paragons.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:23 .