2146 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

jbblue05 wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
lol, not just you. It's definitely more important than a chance to stick it to the Illusive Man who still has a Derelect Reaper (and anything else he didn't share with Shepard) he can study... if he so chose to continue doing so.

The derelict Reaper was destroyed.

by the weapon Cerberus recovered

Which was defunct, which means non-operational. Shephard destroyed the Reaper by destroying its mass effect core, not because some giant railgun fired from afar and took it out.

[scotchtape622]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

1. It's easy to return to the Collector Base should you so choose and blow it up when it's only full of scientists and maybe a few mercs.

2. Your Shepard should know that because keeping the Base is what TIM wants and he'd of course want to congratulate you on getting it.

1. Maybe, but it is likely that TIM will have it highly defended, and they will have already gotten a ton of information (and what does this do with building a Reaper? That you believe that they could only be built in the base? Maybe)

2. You're right, but Shepard might die on the way out, and I can't see him actually believing that he can influence TIM by "warning" him.

[mosor]

scotchtape622 wrote...

Combine that with the fact that the Council races will not want to work with me if I work with Cerberus, and I don't think the risk:reward ration is good enough to keep the base.

I can just see that turian buffoon of a councilor scolding you for destroying the base.

[scotchtape622]

mosor wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

Combine that with the fact that the Council races will not want to work with me if I work with Cerberus, and I don't think the risk:reward ration is good enough to keep the base.

I can just see that turian buffoon of a councilor scolding you for destroying the base.

He's dead

[Arijharn]

TIM has more to gain by co-operating with Shephard than he would by actively pissing him off. Then again, no side really can do their jobs effectively by alienating the other, but since TIM's interests align with Shephard's (for the moment, i.e., stopping the Reapers) then I would imagine that if nothing else, TIM wouldn't want to rock the boat too much...



If nothing else, Shephard's decision to blow up the Collector base may give TIM insights into how far Shephard is willing to go (or not, as the case may be)

[scotchtape622]

TIM's pissed me off plenty of times "Disabled Collector Ship?"

[Arijharn]

But that was hardly a cardinal sin though

[mosor]

scotchtape622 wrote...

TIM's pissed me off plenty of times "Disabled Collector Ship?"

Good soldiers don't let personal feelings interfere with the mission. The mission is to stop the reapers. The base is woth an investigation. Saving the base isn't going to stop the council or the alliance from working with you any more than if you destroyed it.

[scotchtape622]

Dang it, you have no idea how pissed I was! He could have just told me "Hey its a trap," and I could have either gone into the ship aware, or I could have just blown it up.

EDIT:

My personal feelings had nothing little to do with my decision. It was my interpretation of TIM's comments about Reaper building, my worry on how it could effect Galatic unity, and that EDI had already hacked the Base and gathered quite a bit of intel in it already (as shown by Shepard's knowledge of initial Reaper movements)

Modifié par scotchtape622, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:36 .

[mosor]

scotchtape622 wrote...

Dang it, you have no idea how pissed I was! He could have just told me "Hey its a trap," and I could have either gone into the ship aware, or I could have just blown it up.

Clearly then TIM had good reason not to tell you it was a trap. If you blew up the ship, EDI would have never downloaded the collector data banks and help you get through the omega-4 relay.

[Arijharn]

Perhaps the idea was that he wouldn't want an idle word muttered while you're on the collector ship? I mean, your Shephard is a disciplined hard ass warrior who eats Krogan Battlemaster's for brunch, but someone like Jack isn't (Jack? Disciplined? rofl), Grunt would be too eager etc.

[scotchtape622]

Who cares? According to TIM, I have free reign on this mission. As Shepard said, "You have one job, information." When TIM takes away that reign by lying to me, it proves that I cannot trust him.



And this discussion has nothing to do with why I didn't give him the base anyway.

[Arijharn]

Well, I'm sure if your mission was scuttled because Jack couldn't keep her mouth shut you'd be pretty pissed. I'm not saying I totally agree with TIM's decision, I have to hand wave around to explain it, but if I think about it like this I have to say that his decision to send us in there at all costs was actually rather essential to a lot of things, including the discovery of the Collector 'home world.'

[scotchtape622]

It is up to Shepard to judge if Jack would be safe to bring on a stealth mission like that. The fact is, the risk is much lower if you are prepared for a trap (plus, especially if you play as a "Ruthless" character, TIM knows Shepard is willing to put himself and his soldiers at risk)

[Inverness Moon]

scotchtape622 wrote...

It is up to Shepard to judge if Jack would be safe to bring on a stealth mission like that. The fact is, the risk is much lower if you are prepared for a trap (plus, especially if you play as a "Ruthless" character, TIM knows Shepard is willing to put himself and his soldiers at risk)

If Shepard wasn't prepared for a trap anyways then he probably isn't doing something right.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:57 .

[lovgreno]

Yeti13 wrote...

I'm pro Alien, I believe Humans can only achieve their potential by working with and having a mutually beneficial relationship with the other species. TIM does not believe in this and has a pro human (or pro Cerberus to be frank) Agenda. He considers himself as close to a God as can be and uses people to achieve his goals. He may do good things for humanity occasionally but almost 100% of time he goes about it in a way that I do not condone. I choose not to give him a base that will almost certainly give him the edge he needs to control the other races. This I can not allow!

If TIM thinks he can actualy make humanity dominate the galaxy he is living in a pipe dream. To assume that the base must contain any deus ex machina that will ensure human dominance is just wishfull thinking from TIM and his supporters. I find it more likely that TIM will just manage to make humanity even more unpopular wich has always been what Cerberus has been best at doing. War with the citadell races is far from unthinkable, especialy with a only human council, and would be a certain lose for the outnumbered humanity. A military and politicaly broken humanity and weakened other superpowers is something I think we can not afford. Certanly not for the wishfull thinking that the base will solve all our problems in some way we have no clue about. And considering that Cerberus experiments usualy backfires horribly the big and basicaly unknown base may be the thing that finaly goes fubar for Cerberus. And this time Shepard might not be able to clean up the mess they made. So hopefully TIM realises that this is too big for Cerberus alone and shares the base with actualy powerfull and skilled organisations in the galaxy for the common good. If his ego allows him to realise that he is not the new messiah that is.

[GuardianAngel470]

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

[Nightwriter]

Wtf. When does it say that, and in what context?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

General Consensus I get Regarding the Base from both sides are:



Destroy: Don't trust TIM. Hopes Council was lying to them and are really getting ready for the Reapers (in the face of outright denial from them). Will find a way to beat them without messing with/understanding/countering Reaper technology (fears Reaper failsafes, if any are there) . Feels that though the base built Reapers, it contained nothing useful. Feels previous work relationship with Cerberus can be forgotten if they found out you blew up the base (in the eyes of the galaxy who still mostly believe you're dead). Feels a united, galactic effort against the Reapers will win more than understanding them.



Keep: May not fully trust TIM but feel the Reapers are the greater threat. Feel TIM can be killed/taken care of if he goes too far. Feels base (because Reapers are built there) has information that could be instrumental in defeating them. Feels Reaper failsafes (if they're even there) are to also be studied and countered. Feels no one else is preparing against the Reapers except for Cerberus as the Council continues to deny their existence. Feels work relationship with Cerberus can be reconcilled and justified in the eyes of the galaxy (in light of the Reaper threat). Feels exploiting a weakness of/countering the Reapers themselves will win more than attacking with large numbers.

[Lee-gion]

Nightwriter wrote...

Wtf. When does it say that, and in what context?

It's here.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

"Resume"? 

EDIT:  This seems to be what happens if you destroy the base.  They were able to "salvage key pieces from the remains."

The Reapers are also a lot more deadly than even I thought they were.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 09:45 .

[Lee-gion]

That's the impression I got from it.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

In which case the move could've made TIM desperate... or he intended to do it anyway. A very gruesome sort of punishment for a traitor... worse than a Council firing squad you could argue.

But still, wow, I had no idea the Reapers were "that" powerful. Check out the link below:

http://masseffect.wi...ct:_Retribution



EDIT:  Yeah this story is officially off of the Paragon ending, the star is blue.  Anderson becomes active regarding the threat of the Reapers and Cerberus is severely crippled.. making an alliance with Aria.

Still had no idea the Reapers were that much of a threat and could do that much without even being there.  Arguably wrong of TIM to do what he did there but also definitely glad that information got out.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:20 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

I don't get it, perhaps i should read the novel lol.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why that quote gives you reason to destroy the base?

[Dean_the_Young]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Here's a question.

Would you give advanced technology to Stalin if it could stop Hitler? Or would you rather defeat Hitler on your terms?

Answer that question for me.

We already did the first, because the Western powers alone alone couldn't do the second.