2146 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

scotchtape622 wrote...

One strike to a largely populated world, using the weapons tech they get from the Collectors (plus Seeker Swarms), and they could easily make a Reaper.

The only world possibly big enough for that is Earth.

Which not only has billions of people on it, but entire fleets ready to defend it.

So... no.

They wouldn't even need to use humans.

Yes they would.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

I don't get it, perhaps i should read the novel lol.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why that quote gives you reason to destroy the base?

TIM decides to test Reaper technology (taken from the Collector Base's remains) in a controlled environment on a traitor to his organization.  The Reapers super-charge him with crazy power, gain full access to all of his memories, and take full control of his body, voice, and actions.  That experiment, while it would've been controlled before getting that far, is interrupted by an attacking Captain Anderson and co.  The Reaper-Man escapes in the process but is later killed.

[Dean_the_Young]

scotchtape622 wrote...
1. Maybe, but it is likely that TIM will have it highly defended, and they will have already gotten a ton of information (and what does this do with building a Reaper? That you believe that they could only be built in the base? Maybe)

There is nothing TIM can defend it with that can't be defeated by more ships also equiped with IFFs... which the Normandy has.

Given the highly super-advanced nature of Reapers and their construction, yes. For the foreseeable future, the only place with the ability to make a Reaper is the Collector Base.

Which can be reached.

2. You're right, but Shepard might die on the way out, and I can't see him actually believing that he can influence TIM by "warning" him.

Shepard can already influence TIM and Cerberus. A warning that if TIM steps over a line, Shepard will react, when Shepard indeed does have the means and ability to retaliate, are highly credible.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:25 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

I don't get it, perhaps i should read the novel lol.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why that quote gives you reason to destroy the base?

TIM decides to test Reaper technology (taken from the Collector Base's remains) in a controlled environment on a traitor to his organization.  The Reapers super-charge him with crazy power, gain full access to all of his memories, and take full control of his body, voice, and actions.  That experiment, while it would've been controlled before getting that far, is interrupted by an attacking Captain Anderson and co.  The Reaper-Man escapes in the process but is later killed.

So either way TIM gets his reaper tech?

Looks like the CB decision isn't that important, just like ME1's ending decision.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

I don't get it, perhaps i should read the novel lol.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why that quote gives you reason to destroy the base?

TIM decides to test Reaper technology (taken from the Collector Base's remains) in a controlled environment on a traitor to his organization.  The Reapers super-charge him with crazy power, gain full access to all of his memories, and take full control of his body, voice, and actions.  That experiment, while it would've been controlled before getting that far, is interrupted by an attacking Captain Anderson and co.  The Reaper-Man escapes in the process but is later killed.

So either way TIM gets his reaper tech?

Looks like the CB decision isn't that important, just like ME1's ending decision.

Still gets tech from the base, but a different form of it.  So now the question is... did TIM do what he did because he felt desperate and felt no other way to study the exploded Reaper tech?  Or was this something he'd planned on doing regardless?

Another change could be that Shepard is considered a traitor to Cerberus should he destroy the base.


Harshly enough though, TIM could argue why he held those tests really well considering the outcome.  That kind of human take-over would COMPLETELY DECIMATE any allied forces.  Could turn the entire "united" galaxy paranoid of one another; tearing themselves apart while the Reapers bore through.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:42 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

[Lee-gion]

How does a blue star "cast an orange-red glow over the room"?

I didn't read the book but that bit is on the same page as the quote from before.

Modifié par Lee-gion, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Interesting, so it changes colors. It's blue at the end of the book when TIM makes his deal with Aria.

"The Illusive Man sat in his chair, staring out the window at the brilliant blue sun the station was orbiting."

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:51 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

Are you sure? I highly doubt they would make a book that only supported one ending. I could've sworn the devs stated that the ME books keep out as many decisions as possible, and destroying the collector base is a rather big one.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It just suggests the Paragon ending more than the Renegade one. They "salvaged" the "remains" of the Collector Base operation. The Renegade option doesn't really leave "reamains" as it stays in-tact.



Could be both though.

[GuardianAngel470]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

I don't get it, perhaps i should read the novel lol.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why that quote gives you reason to destroy the base?

Because it takes place after the destruction of the base, it isn't so much a reason as evidence of the reason. I destroy it because Cerberus can't be trusted with it. They do stupid things like this with strange tech. That is the thought process I base my decision on, and this just proves that my thought process is very well grounded.

Oh, and it is in the prologue of the book.

[NYG1991]

Retribution uses pretty vague language to keep the plot open to interpretation. "remains" could also be referrng to th eremains after the pulse bomb. if it was referring to just destroying the base it would have said rubble or debris from the collector base as thats all that there would be. the star also changes color during the book but its not clear if he's actually watching the same star.



regardless, i made the decisoin to destroy the base mainly because of what i saw happen on the derelict reaper. It was dead for 30+ million years and still made the scientists want to impale themselves. I just had the feeling that the base and any active reaper tech is nothing but trouble and better to be without it.



I've seen all the arguments for keeping it and they're convincing but at the time I made a special point to be quick about deciding one way or the other as the ground team was getting pounded and i wanted everyone to get out of dodge quickly so I just went with my gut and blew it up.



i figured Tim will get his reaper toys either way. the only difference we"ll see in ME3 is whether or not the base will be there if we go back thru the O-4 relay. I we destroy it there will just be a regular space staion with shuttles hauling debris around.



Also if we destroy the base Tim will still find something beneficial from it but won't trust shep enough to give it to him without getting something hefty in return.

[GuardianAngel470]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

Are you sure? I highly doubt they would make a book that only supported one ending. I could've sworn the devs stated that the ME books keep out as many decisions as possible, and destroying the collector base is a rather big one.

I did notice that there were certain pieces of canon that are explicitly stated in the book. For instance, Anderson is the advisor, Udina is the councilor. So Mark isn't above stating canon and alienating others.

Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.

[GuardianAngel470]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Interesting, so it changes colors. It's blue at the end of the book when TIM makes his deal with Aria.

"The Illusive Man sat in his chair, staring out the window at the brilliant blue sun the station was orbiting."

Not proof. Earlier in the book it is stated that that station moves quite often. After every field agent visits, it is moved in order to maintain secrecy.

This could also explain the paragon/renegade endings of ME2. The station is just orbiting a different star.

[GuardianAngel470]

Lee-gion wrote...

How does a blue star "cast an orange-red glow over the room"?

I didn't read the book but that bit is on the same page as the quote from before.

Different stars.

[NYG1991]

[quote]GuardianAngel470 wrote...

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...

[quote]Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.
[/quote]


I don't remember it saying specifically that the base was the source. I think EDI was saying that a safe zone simply existed ther and the IFF enabled the Normandy to hit that zone when they crossed. Mordin suggested that there was shileding but EDI disagreed IIRC. 

[Gibb_Shepard]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

Are you sure? I highly doubt they would make a book that only supported one ending. I could've sworn the devs stated that the ME books keep out as many decisions as possible, and destroying the collector base is a rather big one.

I did notice that there were certain pieces of canon that are explicitly stated in the book. For instance, Anderson is the advisor, Udina is the councilor. So Mark isn't above stating canon and alienating others.

Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.

Like i said i haven't read the book, so i don't know what context that's in, but i just can't see the writers making a canon ending through a book; i just don't see them doing something like that when the whole franchise is known for its individual decisions. Perhaps you didn't interpret that line properly.

[GuardianAngel470]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

Are you sure? I highly doubt they would make a book that only supported one ending. I could've sworn the devs stated that the ME books keep out as many decisions as possible, and destroying the collector base is a rather big one.

I did notice that there were certain pieces of canon that are explicitly stated in the book. For instance, Anderson is the advisor, Udina is the councilor. So Mark isn't above stating canon and alienating others.

Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.

Like i said i haven't read the book, so i don't know what context that's in, but i just can't see the writers making a canon ending through a book; i just don't see them doing something like that when the whole franchise is known for its individual decisions. Perhaps you didn't interpret that line properly.

What about redemption? That was canon.  So was Ascension, (If you haven't read it, Ascension is about the attack that Cerberus staged on the Migrant Fleet).

Also, I can't remember the name of the first one, but the first novel is all about Anderson's Spectre bid. All these things are canon in their own way, so it is't a leap for them to do this.

[GuardianAngel470]

[quote]NYG1991 wrote...

[quote]GuardianAngel470 wrote...

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...

[quote]Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...


Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.
[/quote]


I don't remember it saying specifically that the base was the source. I think EDI was saying that a safe zone simply existed ther and the IFF enabled the Normandy to hit that zone when they crossed. Mordin suggested that there was shileding but EDI disagreed IIRC. [/quote]

They don't state that it is, but both Mordin and EDI hypothesize that it is. Replay the convo right after the collector vessel, mordin says that there is an artificial safe zone created by a space station and miranda says that's impossible.

[Gibb_Shepard]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Well seeing as the books don't take any of the decisions canon, i'd say he would have done it regardless. What's his excuse for testing the tech for the people who destroyed the base?

The book is a sequel to the Paragon ending of ME2.  The star he orbits is blue and he salvaged remains of the collector base for that experiment.

Are you sure? I highly doubt they would make a book that only supported one ending. I could've sworn the devs stated that the ME books keep out as many decisions as possible, and destroying the collector base is a rather big one.

I did notice that there were certain pieces of canon that are explicitly stated in the book. For instance, Anderson is the advisor, Udina is the councilor. So Mark isn't above stating canon and alienating others.

Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.

Like i said i haven't read the book, so i don't know what context that's in, but i just can't see the writers making a canon ending through a book; i just don't see them doing something like that when the whole franchise is known for its individual decisions. Perhaps you didn't interpret that line properly.

What about redemption? That was canon.  So was Ascension, (If you haven't read it, Ascension is about the attack that Cerberus staged on the Migrant Fleet).

Also, I can't remember the name of the first one, but the first novel is all about Anderson's Spectre bid. All these things are canon in their own way, so it is't a leap for them to do this.

No you completely misunderstood me. I mean the decisions that WE make, not ones that are out of our hands (Liara's quest to find shepard). I realise that the books create a canon for the story, but i don't think they take YOUR decisions and make one of them canon. But i may be wrong, the writers could have gotten lazy.

[mosor]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Also, it is definitely the renegade ending. If you remember, the base is the source of the safe zone at the other end of the omega 4 relay. If you destroyed the base, then there is no safe zone. No safe zone means no salvage.

Probably there is salvage. The shadowbroker is still interested in your IFF to conduct salvage operations if you destroyed the base. Regardless, things you get out of salvage cannot compare to an intact base.

[Inverness Moon]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

Firstly, that happens after ME2, so you can't use that as a reason to destroy the base.

Secondly, provide some context:

"The Illusive Man knew full well the abhorrence of his plan. But ethics and morality had to be cast aside for the survival of the species. Instead of millions being abducted, a few carefully chosen subjects would be chosen. A handful of victims had to suffer to protect and preserve the entire human race."

If what was done to Grayson is an example of this, then that is OK with me. We already learned how Harbinger and Sovereign took control of their hosts. Now we need to figure out why, in Sovereign's case, that became a weakness.

[Nightwriter]

I object to the concept that outside information or information which occurs after the Collector base decision chronologically is inadmissible.

This is like saying I must roleplay my Grey Warden to think Loghain could possibly be innocent because the scene in which he betrays Cailan is a third person glimpse my Warden is not present for.

[smudboy]

I object to any supplemental material outside the ME2 narrative.



Arguments after the fact are easily dismissed.