2146 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

Nightwriter wrote...

This is like saying I must roleplay my Grey Warden to think Loghain could possibly be innocent because the scene in which he betrays Cailan is a third person glimpse my Warden is not present for.

Yes but you learn about Loghain's retreat from others during the game. That plus his outlawing of the wardens and putting a bounty on your head is reason enough for you to fight him. RPG wise, basing your decision on events that Shepard has no info on (Regardless if you agree or disagree with Cerberus for their actions) is metagaming plain and simple.

[Sajuro]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
Thanks to Shepard and his continued tradition of blowing **** up, all I'm doing by destroying the collector base is keeping said tradition alive

The Derelict Reaper - actively or not - forced Shepard's hand by trapping him on board.  He had to blow up the ship's power in order to leave, and the ship's power was what was holding it in orbit.  

He didn't just blow it up for kicks.

yours may have not, but it would of been boring to just get the IFF and after what happened to the scientists, the Reaper was going down.

[Elite Midget]

"Ultimately however, there was only one way to gain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

Well, that sums up everything.

I told you Cerberus would do what it does best. Inhumane experiments to get what they want and than have TIM deny anything of the matter if the cell is caught by saying they went Rogue. After everything that Cerberus did in the earlier books as well as ME1 and ME2 you had to be very naive to think that TIM wouldn't sanction that stuff.

"Lets give Cerberus the base! They wont do anything without my knowledge because I'm Shepard and I said so! Only Cerberus can use the base, our one last hope, to stop the Reapers even though the base is 100% Reaper technology that they had been in touch with untill the end of ME2! There's no way there can be any backdoors the Reapers might use or that it might have traps set up! After all, that dead Reaper, which had been dead for many many years, didn't have any traps either!

Oh wait!"

The Collector Base reminds me of a Pyramid. Full of Knowledge and Culture but guarded by many traps. What're the odds that the Cerberus Researchers end up going mad again? The Collector Base was Reaper tech and in complete Reaper control till the end of ME2. While a dead Reaper had been left alone by the other Reapers and it still managed to do bad things to the Researchers there.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:44 .

[Sajuro]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

You know I may be mistaken but I think that's what people who destroyed the base said Cerberus would do in some other threads (that or build a reaper) and all of the pro-cerberus people called us idiots Can't use it for the in game choice, but if you destroyed it because the base was an abomination, this justifies you.

[Inverness Moon]

Sajuro wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

You know I may be mistaken but I think that's what people who destroyed the base said Cerberus would do in some other threads (that or build a reaper) and all of the pro-cerberus people called us idiots Can't use it for the in game choice, but if you destroyed it because the base was an abomination, this justifies you.

Sorry, but that isn't very accurate.

I said the anti-Cerberus people were foolish for believing Cerberus would abduct millions in order to build another reapers. It's much more worthwhile to equip our fleets with reaper weapons and defensives than it is to build a single reaper.

I'll also add that I'd still give the base to Cerberus even if I knew ahead of time that they would be experimenting on a handful of people.

[Sajuro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

 Why do I destroy the base? Quote from Mass Effect Retribution:

"Ultimately however, there was only one way togain the knowledge they sought: they would have to resume the Collector experiments on real human subjects."

/end thread

You know I may be mistaken but I think that's what people who destroyed the base said Cerberus would do in some other threads (that or build a reaper) and all of the pro-cerberus people called us idiots Can't use it for the in game choice, but if you destroyed it because the base was an abomination, this justifies you.

Sorry, but that isn't very accurate.

I said the anti-Cerberus people were foolish for believing Cerberus would abduct millions in order to build another reapers. It's much more worthwhile to equip our fleets with reaper weapons and defensives than it is to build a single reaper.

I'll also add that I'd still give the base to Cerberus even if I knew ahead of time that they would be experimenting on a handful of people.

Point taken, but what experiments were they doing on humans rather than seeing if they had matches to Protheans? If TIM turns out a link between the Protheans and the Humans than more power to him but how will that help beat the Reapers?

[Elite Midget]

Yeah, lets use Reaper Weapons and Defenses!

Somehow we Organics will be able to outsmart the Reapers with tech they've used to wipe out organic life time and again. There's no way that can back fire on us, right?

Oh wait!

We all saw what happened when the Protheans used Reaper tech. They were wiped out. Yet the non-Reaper tech(Aka the Beacons, the Conduit, the Cipher, and the Research planet Illos) was left behind and led to stopping Soveriegn.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Sajuro]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yeah, lets use Reaper Weapons and Defenses!

Somehow we Organics will be able to outsmart the Reapers with tech they've used to wipe out organic life time and again. There's no way that can back fire on us, right?

Oh wait!

We all saw what happened when the Protheans used Reaper tech. They were wiped out. Yet the non-Reaper tech(Aka the Beacons, the Conduit, the Cipher, and the Research planet Illos) was left behind and led to stopping Soveriegn.

Really I don't think that they left their best tech behind, instead there is probably a base in darkspace where the baby reapers reach Reaper adulthood since they are usually made during the harvesting of the galaxy.

[lovgreno]

Sajuro wrote.and all of the pro-cerberus people called us idiots

This seems to be a popular opinion that some are happy to twist into a argument.

[mosor]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yeah, lets use Reaper Weapons and Defenses!

Somehow we Organics will be able to outsmart the Reapers with tech they've used to wipe out organic life time and again. There's no way that can back fire on us, right?

Oh wait!

We all saw what happened when the Protheans used Reaper tech. They were wiped out. Yet the non-Reaper tech(Aka the Beacons, the Conduit, the Cipher, and the Research planet Illos) was left behind and led to stopping Soveriegn.

Hello,  the protheans stopped the reaper invasion in our time by using the conduit and learning enough about the keeprers to stop them from getting the signal. The conduit is a mini-mass relay. Last time I checked, that WAS reaper tech. The keepers are also a reaper creation. But no, lets not study them. We may get indoctrinated doing so!

As for Grayson. You wanna stop indoctrination? Better to get data and see how it works now. I'm not gonna shed a tear for Grayson of all people being a human guinea pig.

Modifié par mosor, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:24 .

[Elite Midget]

We can't study the Keepers anyways, they blow up when touched. All that was gotten was scans and you know what they told us?



Nothing useful at all!



The Conduit was made on Illos hence why it was on Illos. It isn't 100% Reaper tech and wasen't at any point in full control by the Reapers. The Collector Base is 100% Reaper tech and was in full control by the Reapers untill the end of ME2. That and the Conduit was made so that only organic life could find it or even turn it on so it could be used. The Collector Base HAS no such precausions.



There's no proof the Reapers even built the Mass Effect Relays. If anything their Creators built the Mass Effect relays or even organic life that died off long before the Reapers were even created. The Reapers simply state that it is their technology yet they couldn't even use it when the Keepers rebelled. I doubt, if it was of their creation, that they would have been left completely unable to use the Mass Relays just because organic life, which they find beneath them, rebelled.



If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

[smudboy]

Elite Midget wrote...


If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

Dead Reaper != Collector Base

[Elite Midget]

Dead Reaper that hasen't been active in many many years or a Base that Harbringer had full control of throughout ME1-Me2 and long before that. Yeah, I'm going to say that logically it would have backdoors and better protections both outside, proven, and inside, the systems, than a Reaper that the other Reapers abandoned long ago.

Remember the Reaper IFF? The Reapers didn't plan on Shepard stealing it but it has a very big backdoor that ended with the Collectors abduting the crew.

So the correct response you made should have been.

Dead Reaper

I doubt an advanded AI, like the Reapers, need an organic to go through the systems of the Collector Base since AIs don't need a physicial form.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 05 octobre 2010 - 05:39 .

[Sajuro]

smudboy wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...


If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

Dead Reaper != Collector Base

Collector Base= Built by Reapers
See I can do it as well
Pizza= Tasty

[smudboy]

Sajuro wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...


If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

Dead Reaper != Collector Base

Collector Base= Built by Reapers
See I can do it as well
Pizza= Tasty

So a uterus is a baby?

Amazing.

[Elite Midget]

No, a Fetus is a baby...

[Sajuro]

smudboy wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...


If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

Dead Reaper != Collector Base

Collector Base= Built by Reapers
See I can do it as well
Pizza= Tasty

So a uterus is a baby?

Amazing.

So the Collector Base is Harbinger's uterus.. and you entered through Omega 4 relay..

Implications... troubling

[mosor]

Elite Midget wrote...

We can't study the Keepers anyways, they blow up when touched. All that was gotten was scans and you know what they told us?

Nothing useful at all!

Studying  them told protheans something. How to stop them from recieving that damn signal. If they never bothered to study them,  there would be no game to play

The Conduit was made on Illos hence why it was on Illos. It isn't 100% Reaper tech and wasen't at any point in full control by the Reapers. The Collector Base is 100% Reaper tech and was in full control by the Reapers untill the end of ME2. That and the Conduit was made so that only organic life could find it or even turn it on so it could be used. The Collector Base HAS no such precausions.

Making a miniturized copy of reaper tech is still reaper tech. As for the collector base. What do you know what precautions exist or do not exist?  You destroyed the thing.  You're working on assumptions.

There's no proof the Reapers even built the Mass Effect Relays. If anything their Creators built the Mass Effect relays or even organic life that died off long before the Reapers were even created. The Reapers simply state that it is their technology yet they couldn't even use it when the Keepers rebelled. I doubt, if it was of their creation, that they would have been left completely unable to use the Mass Relays just because organic life, which they find beneath them, rebelled.

1. You assume the reapers had creators. They could have been formally organic life that chose this for themselves. Or, they could have no beginning like Sovereign likes to boast

2. Where you getting your info that Reapers can't use mass relays? The citadel is a giant mass relay they planned on using. Sovereign jumped out of a mass relay to destroy the citadel fleet.

3. The keepers did not rebel. The protheans just blocked the keepers from receiving that signal.

The lesson from the first game is this. If you study reaper tech, understand the reapers and their motives. They can be stopped. That's what the protheans did.

If a dead Reaper can still cause major problems than think of how much a still active Colloctor Ship, with all its systems still intact, can do.

A dead reaper isn't the collector base. Even if it posed a lot of dangers, it's still worth the risk. 

Modifié par mosor, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:32 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yeah, lets use Reaper Weapons and Defenses!

Somehow we Organics will be able to outsmart the Reapers with tech they've used to wipe out organic life time and again. There's no way that can back fire on us, right?

Oh wait!

We all saw what happened when the Protheans used Reaper tech. They were wiped out. Yet the non-Reaper tech(Aka the Beacons, the Conduit, the Cipher, and the Research planet Illos) was left behind and led to stopping Soveriegn.

I really, really want someone to find five cases in history in which a nation or civilization was immune to the effects of their own weapon technologies that they understood.

I want another five examples of when technological regression and stagnancy made armed resistance easier, not costlier.

[Elite Midget]

Ever heard of the A bomb?

It caused years of prolonged and unforseen damage to the Japanese people and it lead to the Cold War.

There's one right there and that took no effort at all.

Look, you can go ahead and believe that the Collector Basew is 100% safe to use and there will be no reprecussions at all. While I will use logical thinking from dealing with past Reaper tech, and tech not of Reaper make that killed a Reaper, as well as wiht how Cerberus does thing and make the smart decision.

Basically, this is what the two Shepards have going for them.

Renegade, the gullible one who eats up anything TIM throws at them.

"The Collector Base is safe! There's no way it can back fire on us! No siree! It's fine because I'm Shepard even though I will have no hand in how Cerberus will use the base. Let alone making sure the Collector Base isn't still under Harbringer's control even though he's a far more advanced AI than anything we organics have ever dealt with! Lets all ignore the fact that AIs don't need physicial bodies and that Harbringer has a habit of jumping between machine and organic Collectors just fine!

As Shepard I shall save the Base and give it to Cerberus as a gift even though in the past Reaper tech has a habit of turning on us or the fact that TIM lied to me multiple times, which nearly got me killed multiple times, as well as Cerberus constantly having cells go Rogue as well as conducting experiments that lead to the death of many so humanity can dominant the Universe.

Only a naive moralist wouldn't save the Collector Base even though I've had a very bad history with Reaper Tech and Cerberus. Both of which tried to kill me multiple times in the past as well...

Oh well!"

Or...

Paragon, who knows the dangers of Reaper tech and that Cerberus can never be trusted based on experiences in the past with both of them

"Reaper Tech has a habit of biting us right back on more than one occassion. Than there's the fact that TIM has lied to me multiple times, which nearly got me killed because he wanted data, and that Cerberus has had a habit of rogue cells appearing. Not to mention that Cerberus tech is so bad that I needed alien tech to bring the Normandy SR2 up to speed and the fact that the last time Cerberus messed with Reaper tech their Researchers went mad. Than there's that one time when a supposedly safe and minor Reaper IFF, that Cerberus tech declared clean which proved false, somehow lead to my crew being abducted as well...

Yeah... I'm going to go with logic here and destroy this base. Only a naive oppertunist would save this floating time bomb,"

Modifié par Elite Midget, 05 octobre 2010 - 07:34 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Sucks to say but knowing that Reapers are that powerful (Grayson) is a very important tidbit to be aware of going forward to face the Reapers.

Additionally, Grayson would have been killed before he rampaged if Anderson hadn't been attacking the bases.

Imagine the Grayson scenario happening to the singing Rachni? Entire groups of the allied galaxy? It would be chaos.   The galactic alliance would fall apart and be decimated by the Reapers... easily a way to see why the Reapers feel a united assault against them is "confidence born of ignorance."

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 05 octobre 2010 - 07:29 .

[Elite Midget]

Too bad Shepard doesn't know about the events behind Grayson thus it can't be used to effect his choice on the matter either way.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

He'll know, Anderson has Grayson now I think.

[Dean_the_Young]

Grayson's corpse, at least.

[Zulu_DFA]

Elite Midget wrote...

Ever heard of the A bomb?

It caused years of prolonged and unforseen damage to the Japanese people and it lead to the Cold War.

Ever heard of the A bomb?

It caused years of prolonged and unforseen damage to the Japanese people and it led to the Cold War, instead of a very "hot war " between the Soviet block and the West... which would most probably end in occupation of the whole of Europe, Asia and Africa by the Communists.