2146 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Again, there's nothing that says that those methods were approved by Cerberus. Actually only the opposite. What they were doing was covered up and hidden from TIM.



To reiterate, Cerberus only gives resources and says "do it" besides of course following protocols and not getting things out of hand. Cerberus shut them down for a reason... and it wasn't because they weren't making progress... look at Jack.



Also, because they were a secret facility, it also wasn't because it would darken their image in the public eye. It really only suggests one thing.

[scotchtape622]

Teltan was tasked to create new methods in increasing biotic powers. They followed protocol for Jack, making sure that none of the experiments would kill her, but she still ended up the way she is.



Can you honestly try and justify the imprisonment of a twelve year old girl with autism? An imprisonment where she will be tortured and given drugs that she does not want to take?

[jbblue05]

If we did 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

Cerberus is a terrorist group. Should the Quarians avoid doing the right thing because they are afraid?

That's bull the demands would have never ended.
Cerberus only wanted Gillian
When Millions of lives are at stake I would kick Hendel's Gillian, and Kahlee's ass off the Flotilla

lol, wow.

So if I told you I would rape you if you came to this seclued location and you showed up. Would it be my fault?  Or would you be an idiot for showing up alone 
 

Easy, you blame the mafia. They pulled the trigger, not you.

WOW!!  Its not you fault in the slightest at all when you were well aware of the risks. and took them

I have enough of an idea from your recent posts to see it is ridiculous.

Then your terrible at guaging my ethical compass.

[Inverness Moon]

Can we try and stay on topic guys?

[Alessar]

Honestly the only reason I blow the collector base is because I don't trust any one group with the tech and responsibility. I've seen plenty of bad decisions not just from cerberus but from the alliance, the council, and etc. Honestly though with the points posted here I'm leaning towards keeping it.



Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.



So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

[mosor]

Alessar wrote...


Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

Cerberus will do what it always does. Feed that knowledge to the Alliance. A strong Alliance is a strong humanity. It was Cerberus who pushed the Alliance to develop the Normandy after all. Plenty of people in the alliance brass have working relationships with Cerberus and in all likelihood, Cerberus is still an alliance black ops organization that got  saddled with the "terrorist" designation to prevent blowback on the alliance government for Cerberus activities.

Modifié par mosor, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:49 .

[Alessar]

mosor wrote...

Alessar wrote...


Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

Cerberus will do what it always does. Feed that knowledge to the Alliance. A strong Alliance is a strong humanity. It was Cerberus who pushed the Alliance to develop the Normandy after all. Plenty of people in the alliance brass have working relationships with Cerberus and in all likelihood, Cerberus is still an alliance black ops organization that got  saddled with the "terrorist" designation to prevent blowback on the alliance government for Cerberus activities.

True enough.

[DarkSeraphym]

Alessar wrote...

Honestly the only reason I blow the collector base is because I don't trust any one group with the tech and responsibility. I've seen plenty of bad decisions not just from cerberus but from the alliance, the council, and etc. Honestly though with the points posted here I'm leaning towards keeping it.

Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

I think you underestimate the effect that different magnitudes in technology can have when it comes to warfare. Take the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879 in which the British Empire came head to head against the Zulu Empire, particularly the Battle of Kambula. The British forces there amounted to 2,000; the Zulu amounted to 20,000, a difference of 1000%. This battle is considered the battle that turned the tide of the Zulu Wars. Why? Well, historians argue that a large fraction of the reason why the British won this battle was the fact that the Zulu failed to remove the threat of the Royal Artillery after invading the encampment. Maxim guns and cannonfire literally ripped the Zulu to shreds while they fought mostly footsoldiers within the encampment. The Zulu there were particularly armed with native african weapons, such as bows and swords and the like, but certain ones also had rifles; though the people themselves lacked the capacity to use them well since they had little means of coming by gunpowder.

What does this tell us? In terms of warfare, numbers do have an impact but technological differences can easily make up the difference, in this case 1000%. This is because when soldiers are armed with better equipment, their effenciency at war improves and oftentimes increases their effenciency to much higher levels, sometimes beyond that of levels that could be attained with greater numbers.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:01 .

[Alessar]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Alessar wrote...

Honestly the only reason I blow the collector base is because I don't trust any one group with the tech and responsibility. I've seen plenty of bad decisions not just from cerberus but from the alliance, the council, and etc. Honestly though with the points posted here I'm leaning towards keeping it.

Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

I think you underestimate the effect that different magnitudes in technology can have when it comes to warfare. Take the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879 in which the British Empire came head to head against the Zulu Empire, particularly the Battle of Kambula. The British forces there amounted to 2,000; the Zulu amounted to 20,000, a difference of 1000%. This battle is considered the battle that turned the tide of the Zulu Wars. Why? Well, historians argue that a large fraction of the reason why the British won this battle was the fact that the Zulu failed to remove the threat of the Royal Artillery after invading the encampment. Maxim guns and cannonfire literally ripped the Zulu to shreds while they fought mostly footsoldiers within the encampment.

What does this tell us? In terms of warfare, numbers do have an impact but technological differences can easily make up the difference, in this case 1000%. This is because when soldiers are armed with better equipment, their effenciency at war improves and oftentimes increases their effenciency to much higher levels.

But you're facing an opponent who has the same tech as you or even better. One group having said technology won't make much of a difference. This isn't an exact situation of your historical reference.

Somebody mentioned how Cerberus would just give the alliance the tech, that's enough for me considering if the alliance got it, it eventually end up in the hands of others.

[Zulu_DFA]

Alessar wrote...

Honestly the only reason I blow the collector base is because I don't trust any one group with the tech and responsibility. I've seen plenty of bad decisions not just from cerberus but from the alliance, the council, and etc.

Soundls almost like "the Galaxy isn't worth saving".

Alessar wrote...
Honestly though with the points posted here I'm leaning towards keeping it.

That's outstanding!

Alessar wrote...
Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial?

How was R2D2 beneficial in The New Hope? When the time came the good guys were able to come up with a working battle plan, solely due to the fact that the robot had been recovered although initially nobody knew what to do with it.

Alessar wrote...
If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

Not necessarily. Cohesive action is often undertaken by a smaller but more efficient force, rather than a larger one with too many strings attached. But actually TIM (as shown in the Retribution epilogue) is not against sharing the data gained by his "evil experiments" with the rest of the Galaxy.

Alessar wrote...
So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

That's a whole another matter. I think there is more to it, but at the moment there is too little data to speculate.

One point will always remain though: the destruction of the Base cannot be undone.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:10 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Alessar wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Alessar wrote...

Honestly the only reason I blow the collector base is because I don't trust any one group with the tech and responsibility. I've seen plenty of bad decisions not just from cerberus but from the alliance, the council, and etc. Honestly though with the points posted here I'm leaning towards keeping it.

Also just a question for the renegades. I keep hearing well Cerberus can't really do anything with the tech itself since its a small group. How then would these techs be beneficial? If we're talking about stopping a galaxy wide invasion then having every race well informed and geared would be beneficial correct? The way Cerberus works being pro-human I severely doubt they'd hand out this tech, not that said races would accept it.

So again how will the tech and info be useful if only handed out to one race aka humans? Do people here honestly believe one group with reaper info and tech will be enough? Because to me one group with reaper tech sounds like the protheans waiting to happen all over again.

I think you underestimate the effect that different magnitudes in technology can have when it comes to warfare. Take the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879 in which the British Empire came head to head against the Zulu Empire, particularly the Battle of Kambula. The British forces there amounted to 2,000; the Zulu amounted to 20,000, a difference of 1000%. This battle is considered the battle that turned the tide of the Zulu Wars. Why? Well, historians argue that a large fraction of the reason why the British won this battle was the fact that the Zulu failed to remove the threat of the Royal Artillery after invading the encampment. Maxim guns and cannonfire literally ripped the Zulu to shreds while they fought mostly footsoldiers within the encampment.

What does this tell us? In terms of warfare, numbers do have an impact but technological differences can easily make up the difference, in this case 1000%. This is because when soldiers are armed with better equipment, their effenciency at war improves and oftentimes increases their effenciency to much higher levels.

But you're facing an opponent who has the same tech as you or even better. One group having said technology won't make much of a difference. This isn't an exact situation of your historical reference.

Somebody mentioned how Cerberus would just give the alliance the tech, that's enough for me considering if the alliance got it, it eventually end up in the hands of others.

Your question, to me anyways, didn't appear to be as much about the war with the Reapers and moreso about the lack of numbers humanity would have if it kept the technology to itself and how to correct for that. Even if the Reapers have better technology than we do, giving ourselves better technology will still increase our effeciency. The question is whether or not our effeciency will be larger than that of the Reapers. I was explaining how humanity can make up the difference if it increases it's technological achievements within warfare.

Besides, I think you may have confused what my argument was with the reference. To clarify, I'm not saying that the argument of itself is representative of the war with the Reapers. Your question was even if we make one race more technologically improved, how does that help the scheme as a whole? Effeciency is how. The reference I was giving was to show you how effeciency works, it was never meant to be representative of war with the Reapers. I was showing with my example that numbers aren't the only thing that drive warfare.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:13 .

[smudboy]

Alessar wrote...
But you're facing an opponent who has the same tech as you or even better. One group having said technology won't make much of a difference. This isn't an exact situation of your historical reference.

Somebody mentioned how Cerberus would just give the alliance the tech, that's enough for me considering if the alliance got it, it eventually end up in the hands of others.

The comparison is between force of numbers and technology.

Our current technology, if advanced, will be be better than it was.  That is a clear advantage, regardless of how advanced the enemy is.  Since it is based on the enemy, we can guess it's the same level, perhaps a few levels lower, since it's being repurposed.

The base, however, is more than just potentnial technology: this is information on Reapers.  That is, what makes them tick, their potential plans, how they are built, etc.  Thus, not only can technology be developed on how to combat a Reaper, but tactics, and knowledge of it's weakness.

This is potential military and technological advantages over our enemies.  This is information you need to know.  Giving it to Cerberus is completely arbitrary: you need to stop the Reapers, so it doesn't matter who you give it to.  Even TIM has no problems asking for help (in one of the earlier state,emts when Shepard can mention to TIM that they're still a Spectre. "If you can convince them, then by all means.")  Even if no new military technology is developed, being able to understand the structural and chemical nature of what your enemy is and how it operates, provides an understanding on how to start combating the enemy.

This is information I thought would've been available in ME2 regardless, not be a choice, since I thought:
ME1: Discover threat
ME2: Learn how to combat threat
ME3: Combat threat

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Modifié par smudboy, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Alessar]

smudboy wrote...

Alessar wrote...
But you're facing an opponent who has the same tech as you or even better. One group having said technology won't make much of a difference. This isn't an exact situation of your historical reference.

Somebody mentioned how Cerberus would just give the alliance the tech, that's enough for me considering if the alliance got it, it eventually end up in the hands of others.

The comparison is between force of numbers and technology.

Our current technology, if advanced, will be be better than it was.  That is a clear advantage, regardless of how advanced the enemy is.  Since it is based on the enemy, we can guess it's the same level, perhaps a few levels lower, since it's being repurposed.

The base, however, is more than just potentnial technology: this is information on Reapers.  That is, what makes them tick, their potential plans, how they are build, etc.  Thus, not only can technology can be developed on how to combat a Reaper, but tactics, and knowledge of it's weaknesses.

This is potential military and technological advantages over our enemies.  This is information you need to know.  Giving it to Cerberus is completely arbitrary: you need to stop the Reapers, so it doesn't matter who you give it to.  Even TIM has no problems asking for help (in one of the earlier questions when Shepard can state to TIM that they're still a Spectre. "If you can convince them, then by all means.")  Even if no new military technology is developed, being able to understand the structural and chemical nature of what your enemy is and how it operates, provides an understanding on how to start combating the enemy.

This is information I thought would've been available in ME2 regardless, not be a choice, since I thought:
ME1: Discover threat
ME2: Learn how to combat threat
ME3: Combat threat

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Indeed, well thanks for the responses they were all well written and illustrated the points well. But yeah I agree with progression of how ME should go. I'll end up keeping the base this go round.

[Inverness Moon]

smudboy wrote...

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Well there is the part where you're gathering the best of the best from around the galaxy onto your team. If you want a reaper destroyed from the inside, Shepard and his team are who you're going to call.

[DarkSeraphym]

Inverness Moon wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Well there is the part where you're gathering the best of the best from around the galaxy onto your team. If you want a reaper destroyed from the inside, Shepard and his team are who you're going to call.

True, but Shepard is going to need a lot of Monster Energy drinks for that. Unless he discovers a weakness in the way the Reapers are constructed or some form of weakness within their AI itself, he is going to have to pull a lot of all-nighters to make a sizeable dent in the Cuttlefish Army.

[scotchtape622]

Did EDI not gain access to the Collector Base's computer? How do you think Shepard got the intel on the coming of the Reapers in the ending cinematic? It seems clear to me that EDI mined the CB's servers for data.

[Alessar]

Inverness Moon wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Well there is the part where you're gathering the best of the best from around the galaxy onto your team. If you want a reaper destroyed from the inside, Shepard and his team are who you're going to call.

That wouldn't be very practical would it? Considering how many there seemed to be, if our best hope is boarding each one individually we're out of luck 

[Iakus]

smudboy wrote...

The comparison is between force of numbers and technology.

Our current technology, if advanced, will be be better than it was.  That is a clear advantage, regardless of how advanced the enemy is.  Since it is based on the enemy, we can guess it's the same level, perhaps a few levels lower, since it's being repurposed.

The base, however, is more than just potentnial technology: this is information on Reapers.  That is, what makes them tick, their potential plans, how they are built, etc.  Thus, not only can technology be developed on how to combat a Reaper, but tactics, and knowledge of it's weakness.

This is potential military and technological advantages over our enemies.  This is information you need to know.  Giving it to Cerberus is completely arbitrary: you need to stop the Reapers, so it doesn't matter who you give it to.  Even TIM has no problems asking for help (in one of the earlier state,emts when Shepard can mention to TIM that they're still a Spectre. "If you can convince them, then by all means.")  Even if no new military technology is developed, being able to understand the structural and chemical nature of what your enemy is and how it operates, provides an understanding on how to start combating the enemy.

This is information I thought would've been available in ME2 regardless, not be a choice, since I thought:
ME1: Discover threat
ME2: Learn how to combat threat
ME3: Combat threat

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

So ideal scenerio:

Shepard and Company "Hold the Line" until EDi can clean out the files in the base.

Blow the base so the unethical/incompetant Cerberus don't accidentally get themselves killed and unleash more monsters to plague the countryside (Shepard must be getting really bored with dealing with that)

Have EDI transmit this information to every government and organization in the known galaxy.  From the Citadel to Aria T'loak.  Plus make a hundred and one backup copies.

Everyone gets Reaper information, which is what's most desperately needed.  Cerberus doesn't get their hands on dangerous technology (cause you know they just have to touch the fire)  The galaxy has a chance to prepare.

[smudboy]

Inverness Moon wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Well there is the part where you're gathering the best of the best from around the galaxy onto your team. If you want a reaper destroyed from the inside, Shepard and his team are who you're going to call.

Since when did Shepard destroy a reaper from the inside?  Wasn't the Derelict Reaper already dead?  How would a live Reaper allow a ground team to infiltrate it?

Oh wait I just killed my team...

How did ME2 advance the plot again? 

Modifié par smudboy, 07 octobre 2010 - 01:29 .

[DarkSeraphym]

scotchtape622 wrote...

Did EDI not gain access to the Collector Base's computer? How do you think Shepard got the intel on the coming of the Reapers in the ending cinematic? It seems clear to me that EDI mined the CB's servers for data.

I always assumed that the knowledge that the Reapers were coming was an assumption by Shepard, I mean in my game anyways he clearly says "Harbinger is coming and you can bet that he won't be alone" to the Illusive Man before even received the said datapad in the ending cinematic.

Even if EDI mined the CBs servers for data, we then have to answer the question "What kind of data was there? How much was stored? Was there any protections on some of it?" . Honestly, for all we know, there may not even be any data in those computers relevant to the construction of the Reaper. Harbinger controlled the Collector General and the Collector General had control of the Collectors through a hive mind, for all we know Harbinger saw no reason to put such data in the computers because it could relay how to construct the Reaper through the mind of the Collector General, thus giving the information to all of the Collectors individually.

[scotchtape622]

I do think Shepard would want to infiltrate a Reaper unless they get a counter to Indoctrination.



However, ME2 had a purpose because if the Collectors hadn't been stopped and the new Reaper finished, it could have activated the Citadel Relay.

[Inverness Moon]

smudboy wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Destroying the base makes ME2 completely irrelevant in the fight against the Reapers.

Well there is the part where you're gathering the best of the best from around the galaxy onto your team. If you want a reaper destroyed from the inside, Shepard and his team are who you're going to call.

Since when did Shepard destroy a reaper from the inside?  Wasn't the Derelict Reaper already dead?  How would a live Reaper allow a ground team to infiltrate it?

He hasn't done it yet, but if anyone could, I think it would be him. 

I also have no idea how they would infiltrate it; I'm sure Shepard will find someone to handle the details. 

[Alessar]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

Did EDI not gain access to the Collector Base's computer? How do you think Shepard got the intel on the coming of the Reapers in the ending cinematic? It seems clear to me that EDI mined the CB's servers for data.

I always assumed that the knowledge that the Reapers were coming was an assumption by Shepard, I mean in my game anyways he clearly says "Harbinger is coming and you can bet that he won't be alone" to the Illusive Man before even received the said datapad in the ending cinematic.

Even if EDI mined the CBs servers for data, we then have to answer the question "What kind of data was there? How much was stored? Was there any protections on some of it?" . Honestly, for all we know, there may not even be any data in those computers relevant to the construction of the Reaper. Harbinger controlled the Collector General and the Collector General had control of the Collectors through a hive mind, for all we know Harbinger saw no reason to put such data in the computers because it could relay how to construct the Reaper through the mind of the Collector General, thus giving the information to all of the Collectors individually.

True enough the computers could have been wiped leaving the technology already onboard the base as the only basis of discovery and improvement.

[scotchtape622]

Alessar wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

Did EDI not gain access to the Collector Base's computer? How do you think Shepard got the intel on the coming of the Reapers in the ending cinematic? It seems clear to me that EDI mined the CB's servers for data.

I always assumed that the knowledge that the Reapers were coming was an assumption by Shepard, I mean in my game anyways he clearly says "Harbinger is coming and you can bet that he won't be alone" to the Illusive Man before even received the said datapad in the ending cinematic.

Even if EDI mined the CBs servers for data, we then have to answer the question "What kind of data was there? How much was stored? Was there any protections on some of it?" . Honestly, for all we know, there may not even be any data in those computers relevant to the construction of the Reaper. Harbinger controlled the Collector General and the Collector General had control of the Collectors through a hive mind, for all we know Harbinger saw no reason to put such data in the computers because it could relay how to construct the Reaper through the mind of the Collector General, thus giving the information to all of the Collectors individually.

True enough the computers could have been wiped leaving the technology already onboard the base as the only basis of discovery and improvement.

Well, there were pictures of Reapers on the datapad Shepard had, and IMO it didn't look like Soverign.

[DarkSeraphym]

Alessar wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

scotchtape622 wrote...

Did EDI not gain access to the Collector Base's computer? How do you think Shepard got the intel on the coming of the Reapers in the ending cinematic? It seems clear to me that EDI mined the CB's servers for data.

I always assumed that the knowledge that the Reapers were coming was an assumption by Shepard, I mean in my game anyways he clearly says "Harbinger is coming and you can bet that he won't be alone" to the Illusive Man before even received the said datapad in the ending cinematic.

Even if EDI mined the CBs servers for data, we then have to answer the question "What kind of data was there? How much was stored? Was there any protections on some of it?" . Honestly, for all we know, there may not even be any data in those computers relevant to the construction of the Reaper. Harbinger controlled the Collector General and the Collector General had control of the Collectors through a hive mind, for all we know Harbinger saw no reason to put such data in the computers because it could relay how to construct the Reaper through the mind of the Collector General, thus giving the information to all of the Collectors individually.

True enough the computers could have been wiped leaving the technology already onboard the base as the only basis of discovery and improvement.

It's not even that they have been wiped, they may not have even been there from the start. We know that Harbinger controls the Collector General and we know that because of that, Harbinger can gain control of any one Collector at a time. I infer from that that the Collectors function on a hive mind. If that is true, then there may not have even been any need to store the data on how to construct a Reaper in the computers anyways. Harbinger would just have to load the data through the Collector General into the minds of the Collectors themselves.

If that were to be true, that means that the only way you are going to get access to the valuable data on the Base as a whole is if you keep it long enough to study the remains of the Human-Reaper and the machines that were creating it and possibly reverse-engineer them.