2146 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

OmegaXI wrote...

Am I the only one who blew up the base because I wanted to commit genocide on one more alien race to prove what happens when you mess with my shepard?

Probably, but hey, it's a valid reason.

Not really, it would've been a stronger case if you not only performed complete genocide against the collectors, but you also took their home too... and will blow it up once you get anything useful from it.

Talk about ouch.

[Xilizhra]

Shandepared wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm pretty sure it's not really "screwed." The volus are also a client race of the turians and don't do too badly, and humans already have a Council seat.

Judging by the plight of African Americans today they were better off under slavery. I mean slavery is bad yeah, but it is better than a disproportional crime rate, incarceration rate, poverty, venereal diseases, and welfare. The same can be said of South Africa. 

In the end I think we can both agree that blacks are better off when being ruled by whites. Freedom sometimes needs to take a backseat for the sake of the greater good.

At first I thought "Oh ****, 4chan-style race card," but then I realized that you were just being sarcastic and making bad analogies. A load off my mind.
Pretty sure volus aren't enslaved or under apartheid systems to the turians, and I doubt humans would be either. If this "client state" scenario even came to pass.

[General User]

Inverness Moon wrote...
No one has ever said that to me before... 

So glad I could make it happen for ya’.

Inverness Moon wrote...

As I mentioned before, both the Citadel and Alliance fleets were completely ineffective against just a single reaper. You seem to be implying that at this point, we have anything capable of stopping them. Pure military power isn't going to do it, especially not with our level of technology.

The reapers might be in unfamiliar territory but it still doesn't mean our weapons will be any more effective against them.

 

By all logic our technology “level” is not terribly different from the Reaper’s own to begin with.  I fully agree that under any circumstances innovative and even ingenius TTP will be needed, not just pure muscle.

Inverness Moon wrote...

That is a very good point that I hadn't considered before. Did anyone have any non-conventional weapons that couldn't have been used around the Citadel? But then again, dreadnoughts are how the various races measure their military power apparently. Sovereign's shields are strong enough to withstand fire from any dreadnought in any fleet. Assuming you could penetrate the shields if you combined the fire from multiple dreadnoughts, you still wouldn't have enough dreadnoughts in the galaxy to counter the number of reapers there are.

Well the Reapers’ ability to stand up to fleet level punishment is based entirely on the incredible strength of their kinetic barriers. A technology that, by its very nature, is unable to shield against heat or radiation, so nukes spring immediately to mind, and that’s one weapon that's already known, mass producable, and absolutely could not be used in the literal heart of a friendly city.
 
Now I know what you’re going to say, “what makes you so sure the Reapers don’t have a superior shielding technology? One that can protect against heat and radiation. They are more advanced after all.”
 
My answer is simply: my faith in humanity (in this case the writers at Bioware). Reaper shields are repeatedly identified as kinetic barriers, if they were/are something else a retcon will be needed. If such is forthcoming I’ll have to revise a great many of my positions on this matter.

Inverness Moon wrote...

Now you're evaluating the risks of each course of action. Destroying the base and trying to do without it, or saving it and allowing Cerberus to tr y to get something out of it. The reapers are obviously a much greater threat than Cerberus, what makes you think you can afford to take the chance?

I believe there are certainly several times more reapers than we have dreadnoughts. Each reaper is more powerful than anything we have.

But anyways, elaborate on these physical advantages. Also consider that the weapon that was necessary to one-shot the derelict reaper carved a massive rift into the planet behind it.

Of course I’m evaluating the risks, along with the potential rewards and the consequences! How else would one make a decision?


I don’t see Cerberus as a threat, so much as a potentially destabilizing element. Under some conditions, namely anything that involves influencing the Alliance, they can even be a real asset. There will be a reckoning for Cerberus and TIM.  No one gets to engineer the deaths of marines and torture the survivors and then walk away.  No one gets to just wash their hands of the kidnapping and murder of children. The Illusive Man will get his one day. I hope and pray I’ll be the one who gets to put the bullet in him, and that he lives just long enough to know it was me. But for now we need them.

I don't mean anything too exotic by “physical advantages.”  Stronger shields, more powerful weapons, better engines, greater numbers. That sort of thing.

I’m not a huge fan of the “Klengadon Canon” myself, killing a Reaper is impressive, but it doesn’t look like it did that particular species much good in the end. Might be good to have a similar construct in the arsenal, but I wouldn’t base a strategy around it.

Inverness Moon wrote...

That is a baseless assumption. We have not experienced attacks by indoctrinated sleeper agents we have no idea how effective it will be or if the action is subconscious, etc.

Again, you're risking just about everything by assuming you'll be able to handle indoctrinated agents through normal methods, the reaper's methods are anything but normal.

Considering the ending of season 1 of Battlestar Galactica.

I don’t think it at all baseless to assume that well resourced, dedicated, experienced counter-intelligence services would be able to adapt themselves to new or changing, or even radically changing situations. I mean, what the hell do we pay those guys for anyway?

I'm not really familiar with the end of season one of Battlestar Galactica, but don't tell me, I'll watch it tomorrow on DVD.

Inverness Moon wrote...

That is true. But I wasn't referring to a strictly physical weakness, but more like one that is the result of how they're made or how their mind works. I don't know. =P

Also, I've read one fanfic where a duplicate Citadel relay was used to lure the reapers into a supernova, specifically one resulting from the destruction of Dholen, the star that Haestrom orbits.

The Reapers just hung out around a star about to turn supernova?  Good Lord!  If they're that stupid I don't know if we should fight them or take up a bloody collection. 

[Xilizhra]

Shandepared wrote...


They've still given up their sovereignity.

My intent was to point out how disgusting I find your views on this.

In addition to being ignorant (claiming humanity is going to make vassals out of anybody), they're revolting. Treasonous.

As a Spectre, my foremost allegiance is to the Council, not to the Alliance. I'm pretty sure it's not treason. Second, I don't support it per se, I only support it over humans dominating everyone else.

[Xilizhra]

I have a genuine Council and not an Udina-sponsored mockery going.

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...

Pretty sure volus aren't enslaved or under apartheid systems to the turians, and I doubt humans would be either. If this "client state" scenario even came to pass.

I'm sorry, can I ask a personal question? "Xilizhra", what does it mean? Maybe "In Turian mythology, a three-headed dog guarding the gates of hell", am I right?

[Markinator_123]

Xilizhra wrote...

I have a genuine Council and not an Udina-sponsored mockery going.

Yeah, a council that does not look out for human interests and yet you completely rely on them.

[Xilizhra]

I'm sorry, can I ask a personal question? "Xilizhra", what does it mean? Maybe "In Turian mythology, a three-headed dog guarding the gates of hell", am I right?

Actually, it's a name I made up completely, for a Warcraft naga character of mine.

Yeah, a council that does not look out for human interests and yet you completely rely on them.

My interests are galactic before specifically human.

[Xilizhra]

Shandepared wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

My interests are galactic before specifically human.

It's too bad the Council isn't as objective as you are. I kind of pity you. Your ideals... are understandable, if misguided. However the Council uses you like a pawn.

The Council is far from perfect, but I don't see a better alternative. Also, how are they misguided (aside from obvious Paragon/Renegade disagreements)?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 octobre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm sorry, can I ask a personal question? "Xilizhra", what does it mean? Maybe "In Turian mythology, a three-headed dog guarding the gates of hell", am I right?

Actually, it's a name I made up completely, for a Warcraft naga character of mine.

Ouch, my mistake then.

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah, a council that does not look out for human interests and yet you completely rely on them.

My interests are galactic before specifically human.

Galactic interests had been pretty much screwed up (by social stagnation) even before the Reaper threat turned out to be a reality. So, even beyond the Reapers, the Galaxy will be better off under Human leadership, which will refresh the creative forces of all races and guide them to the better common future.

[Xilizhra]

x

Modifié par Xilizhra, 09 octobre 2010 - 04:08 .

[Xilizhra]

Imagine it, a Council in which every race that uses the Citadel is given representation? Glorius.

Let me rephrase: I don't have a better alternative that I can bring about right now. Maybe I'll request it as a boon after stopping the Reapers.

Galactic interests had been pretty much screwed up (by social stagnation) even before the Reaper threat turned out to be a reality. So, even beyond the Reapers, the Galaxy will be better off under Human leadership, which will refresh the creative forces of all races and guide them to the better common future.

I think that this whole apocalyptic war will shake up the status quo enough as it is without us needing to resort to apartheid tactics ourselves.

[HTTP 404]

The Citadel will probably get destroyed in Me3, either by Reapers or by Shepard to stop the Reapers. The Council will probably die. Thats the most epic thing I could think of for Mass Effect 3 besides Earth being wiped out and harvested.

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...
this whole apocalyptic war.

Which is now (that you blew up the C-Base) a lot closer to the "end of all life as we know it" just because of your personal irrational loathing of any thought that your species may assume the leadership role.

[Xilizhra]

No, I think that TIM is a nutbar who--oh, forget it. No, I won't let all life as we know it die; I probably won't let much of it die at all.

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

Imagine it, a Council in which every race that uses the Citadel is given representation? Glorius.

Let me rephrase: I don't have a better alternative that I can bring about right now. Maybe I'll request it as a boon after stopping the Reapers.

Yes because the Council is well known for it's gratitude.

Xilizhra wrote...

Galactic interests had been pretty much screwed up (by social stagnation) even before the Reaper threat turned out to be a reality. So, even beyond the Reapers, the Galaxy will be better off under Human leadership, which will refresh the creative forces of all races and guide them to the better common future.

I think that this whole apocalyptic war will shake up the status quo enough as it is without us needing to resort to apartheid tactics ourselves.

Unless this apocalyptic war kills off all the Spectres (sans Shepard) as well as heavy losses to the Turian fleet, STG, and Asari commado units I don't see how.  The status quo is maintained through the military might of the big 3, shaking it up is going to take some doing.

[Xilizhra]

Who needs logic when you've got faith?

Technically, metagame logic is still logic.

Yes because the Council is well known for it's gratitude.

Well, they did make humans a Council species.

[Xilizhra]

Indeed and if that's how you want to look at it then I agree with you. However if you're going to meta-game then I don't understand why you'd participate in these discussions. If we're going to meta-game then there is nothing to debate because it's just a game and none of it matters.

Well, my actual in-game reasons, I've already gotten sick of explaining (I believe that TIM is a threat to galactic cohesion, among other things). You don't believe them, which is fine, but we don't need to fight about them yet more.

Gratitude had nothing to do with it. It's the same for when they made you a Spectre. They did it to appease humanity and avoid a diplomatic incident (or worse). The Council wants humanity controlled.

If I were in their place, I would too. Humans are unexpectedly powerful and belligerent.