2146 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Kurt]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I assume you'll also hold that standard to the Council, the Salarian STG, and the Asari Matriarch groups, yes?

I was not aware that they had come very close to destroying all uplinked tech (or something equally reckless). I'm trying to remember something like that, but can't. I am by no way an expert, so you might be right.

Could you give me some examples?  

[Arijharn]

Shandepared wrote...

Does the name Benezia ring a bell?

How about Maelon?

No! No! Those don't count; Benezia was indoctrinated and Maelon was clearly unhinged!

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I assume you'll also hold that standard to the Council, the Salarian STG, and the Asari Matriarch groups, yes?

Yep.

Oh, sorry. That wasn't directed at me...

[Amdor]

My Shepard choose to destroy the base because it was not time for inner debate - she followed instinct and it seem better choice at time.



No thinking - doing.

Reading some of Your posts I can tell, that by the time Your Shep would make his/her mind Human-Reaper would kill whole crew ^^

[Commander Kurt]

Shandepared wrote...
Does the name Benezia ring a bell?

Indoctrinated or not, I would not give her the collector base either. Actually, I killed her.

Shandepared wrote...
How about Maelon?

Yes, no collector base for him.

I'm not sure about the point you're trying to make. I will not give the collector base to cerberus because they are extremely wreckless, proven by the Overlord debacle. I am not sure I would give it to the council/alliance either, but I might since I cannot recall them being equally wreckless. I have not yet saved our civilization from their messed up experiments. The decision to enlist krogan against rachni comes close, but that was a do or die situation. Overlord is not based on such a situation. 

[Nightwriter]

Oh, there are plenty better than Cerberus, all right. But then, that's not hard to do. I think you'd like to claim that everyone's the same as Cerberus, but Cerberus is at least honest about its beliefs and goals, whereas everyone else hides the same beliefs behind a smile and pretends they're above it (which isn't far from the truth, actually).

But note that they're not better than Cerberus because they're less corrupt - most of the other galactic organizations are simply better because they're monitored. By their own governments, by the other races, by their own separate internal factions, by the public eye. Any organization that has to file reports to someone is going to be at least a little better than Cerberus, who has to file reports to no one.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 28 septembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Nightwriter]

Like I said, pretty much any organization beholden to public or governmental scrutiny is better, simply by virtue of the fact that the power doesn't rest solely in one individual.

[Nightwriter]

Rofl. Sounds like you're really boning for a good "the STG are no better! the Council is no better! the Alliance is no better! the asari are no better!" tirade.

What I'm telling you right now is that a West Virginia PTA board would be better than Cerberus because it involves a bunch of parents deciding on how to handle the school bake sale.

It's not that they've done anything to make them better. They're set up better as long term political systems. The Council and Alliance, anyway, don't know much about the others. And they're still woefully imperfect. But hey, it's government. 

[lost lupus]

i lean towards distroying the base most of the time simply because of the risk of indotrination

however i do believe that the base could potentionaly be a gold mine
the base was never meant to found let alone breached

i can understand people who are of the line of thinking that we should develop our own tech
but consider this
enigma code
soviet Abomb's
missile systems
radar
modern fighters

these things changed warfare forever and it was all done by stealing other groups tech
we can advance ourselves alot further in a shorter amount of time then we would ever get without it reapers wanted us to find the citidel and the mass relays

they didnt plan on us getting thannix cannons, sheilds and everything else we salivaged from a single reaper

they certainly never expected us to get hold of the collector base
if we can get our hands on their sensor array we can possible find out how to detect indocrination signals

great risk great reward one i ponder everytime upon finshing mass effect 2 and one thats never an easy choice

Modifié par lost lupus, 28 septembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I assume you'll also hold that standard to the Council, the Salarian STG, and the Asari Matriarch groups, yes?

I was not aware that they had come very close to destroying all uplinked tech (or something equally reckless). I'm trying to remember something like that, but can't. I am by no way an expert, so you might be right.

Could you give me some examples?  

Saren, Maleon's attempt to cure the genophage, and Saren again. All three groups have 'nearly' let the galaxy be destroyed or fall into ruin. If Overlord nearly letting disaster happen disqualifies, so should Saren and a cure to the genophage being handed over to the bloodpack.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 septembre 2010 - 01:22 .

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It's not that they've done anything to make them better. They're set up better as long term political systems.

Cerberus is not a political system, so what is your point? The Navy SEALS aren't a political system either. Neither are most households.

The going issue is Alliance/Council vs Cerberus. I am simply telling you why I would choose Alliance/Council, which is what you were basically getting at.

Though the whole decision itself leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I must choose between incompetence and insanity... if only there was a third option...

[Dean_the_Young]

UNAVAILABLE wrote...

Assuming that Cerberus doesn't decide this is a great opportunity to be selective about whom they would give the tech to - most of the galaxy is currently unaware that they need this device. Cerberus would also have to engage in the most aggressive marketing campaign ever "buy now, or be eaten by robotic lobsters". My concern is that too many Captains, Admirals, Navies etc. would not acknowledge the need to have the IFF until they can't get through the Mass Relay. Unless Cerberus is able to distribute literally hundreds, if not thousands of these things to each star cluster and stick them in a warehouse until everyone wises up enough to use them, I can't see myself risking that much on the IFF.

The nice thing about the IFF is that it doesn't take long to install. Once the relays are shut down, if they are shut down, not installing the IFF would be stupidity at the highest form.

Copying and distributing the IFF would be a far simpler, easier, cheaper, and reliable solution to the problem than recreating galactic infrastructure with a subpar replacement.

If the IFF is going to be the key, I would hope Cerberus would start distributing it before disassembling/understanding the Collector Base.

As long as it gets where it needs to be before the Reapers shut down the network, which they have to retake the Citadel in the first place, the order of recovery doesn't much matter.

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I assume you'll also hold that standard to the Council, the Salarian STG, and the Asari Matriarch groups, yes?

I was not aware that they had come very close to destroying all uplinked tech (or something equally reckless). I'm trying to remember something like that, but can't. I am by no way an expert, so you might be right.

Could you give me some examples?  

Saren, Maleon's attempt to cure the genophage, and Saren again. All three groups have 'nearly' let the galaxy be destroyed or fall into ruin. If Overlord nearly letting disaster happen disqualifies, so should Saren and a cure to the genophage being handed over to the bloodpack.

… But these are all examples of how these groups failed.

Cerberus is not in question for failure, it is in question for heinous cruelty.

It’s like saying the police are no better than Charles Manson because they didn’t stop a mugging in time.

No. The only way they’d be no better than Charles Manson is if they ordered a young woman to cut a baby out of her stomach.

[Nightwriter]

Lol. I've always admitted that.

Well, more or less. I haven't totally said it because I kind of roll my eyes at how necessary Cerberus fancies it is. Then I catch myself doing it, remind myself I don't want to be one of those condescending rolling eye people and try to think of bunnies and humility.

At most, Cerberus is useful in the short term, and only the short term up until the end of ME2. I argue with Cerby supporters because they seem to like Cerberus as a long term edifice.

[Nightwriter]

S'pose it depends on what you mean by logic. Are you asking me if I think Cerberus is necessary? Nope. They fulfilled their role in bringing me back and need to step aside now. I do not concede that this is a violation of logic.

Or, are you saying, logic as in: would I let myself die before I betrayed somebody I loved? Yes. That violates your survival-over-morality spiel pretty thoroughly, and I acknowledge that it is contrary to logic.

[UNAVAILABLE]

chris025657 wrote...
Even if the relays are unlocked there is still the issue of a significant technological gap and the sheer numbers of the Reaper fleet. I doubt even the entire galaxy would be capable of defeating the Reaper fleet with current technologies. It took an entire Alliance fleet to destroy one Reaper and I doubt the rest of the galaxy will have much more success. 

I never meant to suggest that the technology gap would not be there. What I'm suggesting is that unless the problem of Mass Relay lock out is overcome, trying to bridge the technology gap in the fields of weapons/armor/shields/I-pods/whatever is pointless. Good technology helps, but it alone does not win a war. Logistics and strategy play a huge role. My concern is that keeping the Base focuses efforts on technology at the expense of other factors.

[Finnish Dragon]

I have wondered how did the Collectors get that base begin with? We know that they or their ancestors were once Protheans. I have come up with two possible scenarios:



1. The Reapers mutated them and then gave them the base.



2. A small group of Protheans found the base after somehow acquiring IFF information from the Reapers and navigated through the Omega 4 relay. The Reapers promised them that because they cooperated with the Reapers then they will survive behind the Omega 4 relay and they will operate a base there. The Reapers didn´t tell them that their descendants will be mutated to serve the Reapers and they will lose their will as well. In a way, they will be like the Ring Wraith in the Lord of the Rings. In that way, the Reapers betrayed them.



The problem is that we don´t know which option happened. If it was option 1, then it is possible that there isn´t indoctrination equipment in that base. However, if it was option 2, then one can be sure that there is indoctrination equipment in the base.



It seems to be that it would be pretty likely that any organic using that base would be indoctrinated by the base. That is possibly the best reason to destroy the base especially since we don´t know the background of that base and because of that, we are making a decision based on very limited knowledge. We don´t know whether that base is a Trojan horse or God´s gift. Destroying the base means that we will not take risks while keeping the base without truly knowing it´s background is taking a tremendous risk.

[Fault Girl]

I blow up each time, I don't think any race/group in the galaxy should get their hands on it. It may be used for good against the Reapers but what about afterwards? Who's to say it wouldn't be manipulated by someone else.



Just like the nuclear bomb, better if it was never created to be honest.